I ve got a hope front hub with the 2 different adaptators for 20*110 and 15*110 , you just have to take off the circlips...
I ve got a hope front hub with the 2 different adaptators for 20*110 and 15*110 , you just have to take off the circlips , put the other adaptators and put on the circlips again.
Cornelius ( from Intend) tell me that there is no significant rigidity difference beween the two axle
and i believe Intend, i rode the 20mm on the Podium, 2.75kg fork, and my new Intend edge with a 15mm axle, none feel flexy at...
and i believe Intend, i rode the 20mm on the Podium, 2.75kg fork, and my new Intend edge with a 15mm axle, none feel flexy at all under any circumstance, if something, the edge feels stiffer and smoother under braking and corners, while being 2.25kg, half a kg lighter or a pound in freedom unit
@sethimus@Evil96@CascadeComponents I love, like love-love, that someone with an engineering background (and seemingly a degree) and a wealth of manufacturing experience provided factual mathematical...
I love, like love-love, that someone with an engineering background (and seemingly a degree) and a wealth of manufacturing experience provided factual mathematical evidence, and it has been refuted by "I believe the manufacturer of this shiny new thing I bought", like conformation bias doesnt exist or something....
There's a quote about facts and opinions that I'm trying to remember here......
it'll come to me....
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their design, the difference in stiffness between the 15 and 20 was only 4% a % that can easily be offset with the right choice of hub rather than something random like most people run ( see Yeti and their podium builds with dt 350 )
After riding the Edge with the 15mm axle and i9 hydra 2 front hub, I came to the conclusion that I don’t need a 20mm axle and the pain to own one in case I blow my wheel and I need another one asap, there’s no lack of stiffness of any sort, it works beautifully, buttery smooth and precise.
So, if marketing geniuses of the big brands tell me to go 20mm while keeping their steerer tubes thin and tiny crown, pardon me but I don’t believe them/ care
Oh, and don’t get me wrong, I totally appreciate the comments by @CascadeComponents they’re always super informative even when I don’t even understand half of it,
And I’m not saying those calculations are wrong either, just that it’s one part of the picture, so unless we’re comparing the exact same product with the only difference being the axle dimension, it’s kind of useless to compare
The whole chassis, crown, steerer tube, material, hub, all play a big role as a system then just the axle diameter.
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their...
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their design, the difference in stiffness between the 15 and 20 was only 4% a % that can easily be offset with the right choice of hub rather than something random like most people run ( see Yeti and their podium builds with dt 350 )
After riding the Edge with the 15mm axle and i9 hydra 2 front hub, I came to the conclusion that I don’t need a 20mm axle and the pain to own one in case I blow my wheel and I need another one asap, there’s no lack of stiffness of any sort, it works beautifully, buttery smooth and precise.
So, if marketing geniuses of the big brands tell me to go 20mm while keeping their steerer tubes thin and tiny crown, pardon me but I don’t believe them/ care
Oh, and don’t get me wrong, I totally appreciate the comments by @CascadeComponents they’re always super informative even when I don’t even understand half of it,
And I’m not saying those calculations are wrong either, just that it’s one part of the picture, so unless we’re comparing the exact same product with the only difference being the axle dimension, it’s kind of useless to compare
The whole chassis, crown, steerer tube, material, hub, all play a big role as a system then just the axle diameter.
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently. The hub and axle are the main thing keeping the lower legs moving together.
The only other real issue I’ve heard of, is of some of the more XC intend forks having some twist under braking. I’m not sure how much of that is the axle preventing that, and how much goes back to the crown flexing very minimally.
Fair enough. In that case, I likely stand corrected. I was thinking about the various mule shots and rumours in speculating that the new bike may...
Fair enough. In that case, I likely stand corrected. I was thinking about the various mule shots and rumours in speculating that the new bike may be forthcoming.
Out of curiosity, what, in your estimation, makes that bike particularly good for comparing one shock against another? Is there a quality of the suspension that makes the differences distinctly discernible?
Well, opinions are like (you get the drift...) so take mine with a grain of salt. I think longer travel bikes are a better platform for...
Well, opinions are like (you get the drift...) so take mine with a grain of salt.
I think longer travel bikes are a better platform for comparing shock performance then shorter travel in general. As far as the nomad goes, the frame construction is well sorted to ensure no side loading of the shock and it does not change feel with a difference in shock construction (ie 10mm shock shaft vs 15-18mm, think previous gen to current gen dhx2). It has a middle of the road (moderate) amount of frame progressivity (linear progressive) and a rather middle of the road starting leverage ratio. The FC/RC (in most, if not all sizes) is a step short of Brian Cahal "goated" territory, so it's not off long chainstay gang by much, but also no where near short chainstay gang, again middle of the road with moderate chainstay growth. It doesn't require a dead nuts sag percentage and can be setup in a range of 28-33 to the riders liking, without truly throwing off the intended performance of the bike.
Basically, it's modern without being conservative. The kinematics and geo are rather middle of the road but still modern and nothing stands out as an outlier. It's basically a consistent platform that doesn't require an oddball shock tune, nor does it have any particulars or bad manners that would put any one shock at a disadvantage. For example, HBO or not, you can setup the shock to feel good without ending up at a weird spring rate. There likely isn't a situation where you would review a shock positively or negatively on a nomad, that would be so vastly different then on another platform. It's not going to be hard for people to extrapolate what that shock would be like on a forbidden, ibis ripmo or a specialized demo, if the base impressions were developed on a nomad.
Look at it this way, if you want to do a review of different ice cream toppings, blue moon icecream or orange sherbert are not the base ice cream you'd select. You would want a staple that is enjoyable on it's own, that doesn't taint the results. Think haagen-dazs vanilla. It's good without being boring and it won't ever steal the show. That's the nomad in a nutshell.
This is spot on. I have probably 5000 miles on Megatower V1 and 2000 miles on V2. The SC lower link VPP bike have a "simple" but effective kinematic that can highlight differences in shock characteristics and performance. Shorter travel bikes seem to typically be optimized around a single shock and base tune, when you deviate from that it's uncharted waters. You might end up with something really good or something bad.
From a philosophical standpoint I think more MTB journalism outlets need to dial in on this. Testing different shocks on different frames with different riders is a huge amount of variables. As an engineer I find it frustrating how un-scientific it all is. I find the QuarterHP approach of "all we test is the frame" to be a step in the right direction.
Also to add to my gripes about bike journalism, I like what NSMB does where they ride something until it breaks and then tear it down and service it, then report back. Too many outlets just do an "initial impressions" but I am unimpressed as I tend to own things for 3-5 years and need to know how hard it is to service or fix.
@sethimus@Evil96@CascadeComponents I love, like love-love, that someone with an engineering background (and seemingly a degree) and a wealth of manufacturing experience provided factual mathematical...
I love, like love-love, that someone with an engineering background (and seemingly a degree) and a wealth of manufacturing experience provided factual mathematical evidence, and it has been refuted by "I believe the manufacturer of this shiny new thing I bought", like conformation bias doesnt exist or something....
There's a quote about facts and opinions that I'm trying to remember here......
it'll come to me....
in my layman thinking, the totally unnecessary overbuilt crown on the f38, compared to the f35 i had before (pre 25 update), does more to stiffness than the 4% a bigger axle would do that a) increases unsprung mass even more and b) forces me to invest in a new front wheel. but everybody is free to provide a calculation for the difference in crown stiffness too. i‘ll wait.
in my layman thinking, the totally unnecessary overbuilt crown on the f38, compared to the f35 i had before (pre 25 update), does more to stiffness...
in my layman thinking, the totally unnecessary overbuilt crown on the f38, compared to the f35 i had before (pre 25 update), does more to stiffness than the 4% a bigger axle would do that a) increases unsprung mass even more and b) forces me to invest in a new front wheel. but everybody is free to provide a calculation for the difference in crown stiffness too. i‘ll wait.
From my dusty memory bank, the old 15mm thru axle system actually weighed more than the 20mm at the time I think?
I reckon axle stiffness inc clamping definitely contributes, but the dominant factors to torsional stiffness in an inverted fork are the tube section properties, bushing spacing, crown/leg interface stiffness and the hub design.
As such to say everyone is right 🤷
-20mm axle is stiffer.
-Other shit be flexin anyway, so the end user would struggle to notice a difference between axle types.
Any ideas what the “SRAM stuff” is? I’m joining the announcement presentation, but don’t remember seeing any SRAM-specific rumors here after the recent Maven updates.
I can't remember the last SRAM stuff to be released that wasn't first tested and seen in public before release. It could be OChain related bc any changes there aren't so obvious but otherwise when have there been big "SURPRISE" releases?
Heard maybe some drive train updates. Perhaps a stronger clutch and sprocket with fewer cogs for emtb?
It would be amazing if they did 11sp for e-bikes. 12 is just not meant for them with the extra power but I want to be able to stand on my eebs derailleur.
In regard to front axles and stiffness of inverted forks, the angular deflection of a shaft is defined as θ=(T*L)/(J*G). The key variables for axles are...
In regard to front axles and stiffness of inverted forks, the angular deflection of a shaft is defined as θ=(T*L)/(J*G). The key variables for axles are J (polar moment of inertia since we're talking about circles) and G (shear modulus of the material). J for a circular cross section is J(r1,r2)=(π*((r1^4)-(r2^4)))/2 where r1 is the OD and r2 is the ID (zero if solid). As for G, the shear modulus of steel is approximately 3x that of aluminum. Now for a comparison between 15 and 20 mm axles... Lets say we have a solid 15 mm axle and want to know what wall thickness would result in an equal torsional rigidity out of a 20 mm axle with both being the same material. We then solve the equation J(7.5,0)=J(10,r) for r. That yields r=9.09 mm. So a 20 mm axle with a 0.91 mm wall thickness would have identical torsional rigidity to a solid 15 mm axle. That's a pretty thin. Thinner than what any 20 mm axle would have. Now if we were to do the same comparison using a 3 mm wall thickness on the 20 mm axle, the result is that the 20 mm axle is 2.4 times stiffer than the solid 15 mm axle. This is all assuming the pinch clamps don't slip of course, but if the goal is improved torsional rigidity of an inverted fork, a larger diameter axle is a clear choice.
I really appreciate the math. It’s funny when people act like they can’t feel the difference but i succinctly remember the “axel wars” and as a taller rider my riding absolutely reflected that
1.15mmwas a patent thing between the RS & FOX teams and actually ruined front ends handling for most riders when RS lost the war and caved to Shimano fox and 15qr. And 2. 20mm is superior and you can just feel it almost all the time .
The older 20mm 29er forks that rock shox made were literally decades ahead in stiffness, to the new podium. So it was (deeply meta) ironic to this old fart that the podium went 20mm. And that the boxxer is playing with 15 boost. Cést la vie
Modern quality hubs and bushing overlap maths make this a non issue …. I think,
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their...
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their design, the difference in stiffness between the 15 and 20 was only 4% a % that can easily be offset with the right choice of hub rather than something random like most people run ( see Yeti and their podium builds with dt 350 )
After riding the Edge with the 15mm axle and i9 hydra 2 front hub, I came to the conclusion that I don’t need a 20mm axle and the pain to own one in case I blow my wheel and I need another one asap, there’s no lack of stiffness of any sort, it works beautifully, buttery smooth and precise.
So, if marketing geniuses of the big brands tell me to go 20mm while keeping their steerer tubes thin and tiny crown, pardon me but I don’t believe them/ care
Oh, and don’t get me wrong, I totally appreciate the comments by @CascadeComponents they’re always super informative even when I don’t even understand half of it,
And I’m not saying those calculations are wrong either, just that it’s one part of the picture, so unless we’re comparing the exact same product with the only difference being the axle dimension, it’s kind of useless to compare
The whole chassis, crown, steerer tube, material, hub, all play a big role as a system then just the axle diameter.
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently...
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently. The hub and axle are the main thing keeping the lower legs moving together.
The only other real issue I’ve heard of, is of some of the more XC intend forks having some twist under braking. I’m not sure how much of that is the axle preventing that, and how much goes back to the crown flexing very minimally.
There's a good thread already going on this topic. Basically that hub design/configuration has more impact on stiffness of an inverted fork than axle diameter.
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their...
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their design, the difference in stiffness between the 15 and 20 was only 4% a % that can easily be offset with the right choice of hub rather than something random like most people run ( see Yeti and their podium builds with dt 350 )
After riding the Edge with the 15mm axle and i9 hydra 2 front hub, I came to the conclusion that I don’t need a 20mm axle and the pain to own one in case I blow my wheel and I need another one asap, there’s no lack of stiffness of any sort, it works beautifully, buttery smooth and precise.
So, if marketing geniuses of the big brands tell me to go 20mm while keeping their steerer tubes thin and tiny crown, pardon me but I don’t believe them/ care
Oh, and don’t get me wrong, I totally appreciate the comments by @CascadeComponents they’re always super informative even when I don’t even understand half of it,
And I’m not saying those calculations are wrong either, just that it’s one part of the picture, so unless we’re comparing the exact same product with the only difference being the axle dimension, it’s kind of useless to compare
The whole chassis, crown, steerer tube, material, hub, all play a big role as a system then just the axle diameter.
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently...
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently. The hub and axle are the main thing keeping the lower legs moving together.
The only other real issue I’ve heard of, is of some of the more XC intend forks having some twist under braking. I’m not sure how much of that is the axle preventing that, and how much goes back to the crown flexing very minimally.
There's a good thread already going on this topic. Basically that hub design/configuration has more impact on stiffness of an inverted fork than axle diameter.
Last year, for one of my engineering classes I did a simulation in Ansys titled “The influence of the axle diameter on the torsional stiffness in an USD bicycle fork”. It was an exercise more focused on Ansys, not on being scientific, but still the results were interesting. Here’s a link to the presentation .
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently...
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently. The hub and axle are the main thing keeping the lower legs moving together.
The only other real issue I’ve heard of, is of some of the more XC intend forks having some twist under braking. I’m not sure how much of that is the axle preventing that, and how much goes back to the crown flexing very minimally.
There's a good thread already going on this topic. Basically that hub design/configuration has more impact on stiffness of an inverted fork than axle diameter.
Last year, for one of my engineering classes I did a simulation in Ansys titled “The influence of the axle diameter on the torsional stiffness in...
Last year, for one of my engineering classes I did a simulation in Ansys titled “The influence of the axle diameter on the torsional stiffness in an USD bicycle fork”. It was an exercise more focused on Ansys, not on being scientific, but still the results were interesting. Here’s a link to the presentation .
TLDR: 20mm was only 4% stiffer
In reality though, torsional flex is coming from where, braking forces, and steering? Darren from push has talked about how there is little actual ground reaction torque from steering. I get that the front wheel sometimes gets trapped between some rocks, or in a rut, but it's pretty rare right?
I guess I'm just wondering how the braking forces might compare to steering forces. If a fork steers straight when heavily braking on pavement, does that mean it's torsionally stiff enough for riding?
When you don't have the bridge it's not only the steering torsional stiffness that is important. You also have to balance the forces left and right. The spring only acts in one way while the damper always oposes movement. The way the axle gives torsional stiffness also impacts how well both legs travel up and down at the same time.
Definitely a difference in feel with my 170mm 29 Zeb Ultimate 2.1 damper generation when going from standard hub caps to torque caps on my i9 Hydra front hub. I preferred the torque caps stiffer feel, but I’m taller and heavier than the average rider.
I think it goes without saying that the torsional stiffness of a fork on a whole is a function of many things. The only point was that, assuming the same material, there isn’t a magic 15 mm axle that’s stiffer than a 20 mm axle. Yes the hub adds to the torsional rigidity of the axle. If you had the same exact hub layout, the 20 mm version would add more stiffness than the 15 mm version. The rigidity of the hub is limited by axle preload and coefficient of friction at the various hub interfaces. Proper axle torque would be essential here.
Is it just me or does this bike a have a classic knolly basement vibes? Obviously the rocker and stays are way different but the seat tube visually pointing at the front end of the bb cluster???
Is it just me or does this bike a have a classic knolly basement vibes? Obviously the rocker and stays are way different but the seat...
Is it just me or does this bike a have a classic knolly basement vibes? Obviously the rocker and stays are way different but the seat tube visually pointing at the front end of the bb cluster???
Maybe Knolly can sue Cannondale before it gets released…
Slacker enters MTB market - See it at Sea Otter. PR belowSlacker Brings Its Battle-Tested Suspension Tool to MTB at Sea Otter Classic 2026After...
Slacker enters MTB market - See it at Sea Otter. PR below
Slacker Brings Its Battle-Tested Suspension Tool to MTB at Sea Otter Classic 2026 After a decade of trust in the dirt, street, and adventure motorcycle world, Slacker is finally coming to the mountain biking community! Come see this this game-changing suspension tool at booth Y36, April 16–19, Monterey, CA.
MURRIETA, CA — March 31, 2026 — Slacker LLC today announced they will be exhibiting at the Sea Otter Classic in Monterey, California, April 16–19, 2026. This marks Slacker's first public event since launching its MTB product on June 15th, 2025, and will feature the debut of the all-new Slacker Virtual Fender Kit for MTB alongside live demos of the full Slacker lineup. Visitors can find Slacker at Booth Y36 all four days of the event.
A Decade of Trust on Two Wheels
Slacker didn't start here. Since 2014, the Slacker digital suspension tuner has been the trusted suspension tuning tool of choice for dirt bike, street, and adventure bike riders around the world. Over the past decade, it has earned a loyal following among professional racers, suspension tuners, dealerships, and everyday riders who demand precision, not guesswork, when setting up their bikes. Now, that same proven technology is coming to mountain biking, and Sea Otter Classic is where it all begins.
Why Slacker Is Different
Most riders have never experienced truly dialed suspension. Not because they don't care, but because getting there has always been complicated , inaccurate, and required you to wait for someone to help. Slacker changes that completely.
Slacker measures at the axle, which means it automatically accounts for a bike's linkage and leverage ratios. Something tape measures, linkage sliders, and O-rings simply cannot do. The result is a precise, real-time sag percentage displayed directly on the handlebars, so the rider can precisely set their own suspension solo, without a helper holding the bike or interpreting numbers. And unlike other tools on the market, Slacker works just as well with a coil shock as it does with air, no compromises, no workarounds.
Mountain bikers have never had access to this level of precision at this level of simplicity. That changes now.
What's New: The Virtual Fender Kit for MTB
The Virtual Fender Kit is the latest innovation from Slacker, expanding the brand's suspension tuning platform into exciting new territory for MTB riders. Sea Otter will be the first opportunity for the mountain bike community to get hands-on with the system, with live demos running throughout the event.
Also, on display at the booth: • The Slacker Digital Suspension Tuner — Get a full demo of Slacker and both companion apps by the founder. • The Slacker Virtual Remote App — Free Bluetooth virtual remote display that lets you control Slacker functions and see measurements right on the bars. • The Motool Service Assistant App — A subscription bike setup and maintenance tracking app for motorcycles and MTB. Save all your bikes, baseline settings, setup notes, service logs and more.
Trusted by the Best in the Business
Slacker is already trusted by some of the most respected names in the MTB community, including Dakotah Norton, The Loam Wolf, Suntour, Forbidden Bikes, The Mark List, and a growing community of professional riders, suspension tuners, and bike parks worldwide. Sea Otter will be the first chance for the broader MTB community to experience firsthand why Slacker has become the go-to standard for precision suspension setup in less than a year.
Free Sag Setup Sessions with Founder Johny Casebeer
Founder and CEO Johny Casebeer will be at Booth Y36 all four days and will personally be running free sag setup sessions on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday from 10:00am to 11:00am. Bring your bike and find out what properly set suspension actually feels like and meet the inventor himself.
Giveaways, Goodie Bags, and a Raffle
Everyone who stops by the booth will receive a free goodie bag packed with: • Dakotah Norton posters • Slacker drink coolers • Slacker keychains
Visitors can also grab a raffle ticket for a chance to win a Slacker MTB Pro Suspension Tuning Kit. The drawing will be held at Booth Y36 on Saturday, April 18th at 3:00pm. You must be present and have your ticket to win.
A Message from the Founder
"We've spent over ten years earning the trust of dirt, street, and adventure riders by giving them something they'd never had before. We spent over two years developing this system with Dave Cerruti of Rulezman Suspension in Italy to bring the community a fast, precise, solo-friendly way to set their sag consistently every single ride." said Johny Casebeer, Founder and CEO of Slacker LLC. "Mountain bike riders deserve that same experience, and we're pumped to finally bring it to them. Come find us at Y36, bring your bike, and find out what your suspension has been missing."
Visit Slacker at Sea Otter Classic 2026 Booth: Y36 Dates: April 16–19, 2026 Location: Laguna Seca Recreation Area, Monterey, CA Free Sag Setup Sessions: Thursday, Friday & Saturday at 10:00am Raffle Drawing: Saturday, April 18th at 3:00pm at Booth Y36 Website: getslacker.com
About Slacker LLC: Since 2014, Slacker LLC has been producing the Slacker Digital Suspension Tuner, the precision suspension tuning tool trusted by professional riders, teams, suspension tuners, bike parks, and leading brands across dirt, street, and adventure riding worldwide. By measuring at the axle and delivering real-time sag percentages directly to the handlebars, Slacker makes perfect suspension setup fast, repeatable, and achievable by any rider on their own. Any bike, any shock, any time.
iv got one of these for Christmas and its actually really good. Think I paid £100 ish for the full kit on a black friday sale. The mountain industry has a gaping hole in it. Selling ppl £1000 forks £6000+ bikes and not even a fuck you on how to help setting them up accurately at home.. It is very slick, works seamlessly and I have so far improved my set up. I ride alone. My Mrs isn't gonna help me set my sag. It's allowed to me run deeper into my travel. Couldn't comment on the long term quality of the product but I don't see anyone else putting their efforts into helping anyone. Defo recommend with anyone getting into the finer set up side particularly useful on a coil shock.
Is it just me or does this bike a have a classic knolly basement vibes? Obviously the rocker and stays are way different but the seat...
Is it just me or does this bike a have a classic knolly basement vibes? Obviously the rocker and stays are way different but the seat tube visually pointing at the front end of the bb cluster???
You know aside from the carbon, the shock layout, the yoke, the tube diameter, the paint work, the branding, the build, it's pretty much a knolly.
I ve got a hope front hub with the 2 different adaptators for 20*110 and 15*110 , you just have to take off the circlips...
I ve got a hope front hub with the 2 different adaptators for 20*110 and 15*110 , you just have to take off the circlips , put the other adaptators and put on the circlips again.
Cornelius ( from Intend) tell me that there is no significant rigidity difference beween the two axle
and i believe Intend, i rode the 20mm on the Podium, 2.75kg fork, and my new Intend edge with a 15mm axle, none feel flexy at...
and i believe Intend, i rode the 20mm on the Podium, 2.75kg fork, and my new Intend edge with a 15mm axle, none feel flexy at all under any circumstance, if something, the edge feels stiffer and smoother under braking and corners, while being 2.25kg, half a kg lighter or a pound in freedom unit
@sethimus@Evil96@CascadeComponents I love, like love-love, that someone with an engineering background (and seemingly a degree) and a wealth of manufacturing experience provided factual mathematical...
I love, like love-love, that someone with an engineering background (and seemingly a degree) and a wealth of manufacturing experience provided factual mathematical evidence, and it has been refuted by "I believe the manufacturer of this shiny new thing I bought", like conformation bias doesnt exist or something....
There's a quote about facts and opinions that I'm trying to remember here......
it'll come to me....
Found it.....
"The reason facts don't change most people's opinions is because most people don't use facts to form their opinions. They use their opinions to form their 'facts'." — Wayne Gretzky probably
On the topic "SRAM stuff": Maybe some limited Maven+Motive Sets againAnd love some more options for the Flight Attendant shocks, too. Everything but the SuperDeluxe Ultimate...
On the topic "SRAM stuff": Maybe some limited Maven+Motive Sets again
And love some more options for the Flight Attendant shocks, too. Everything but the SuperDeluxe Ultimate FA and the SIDLuxe FA are OEM only (right?).
Would really like some options for smaller bikes like the Reya thats not the SIDLuxe FA
"Bad Habit" looks sick!
In an Instagram Q&A, Sram has stated that there will be no LTD brakes this year
I can't remember the last SRAM stuff to be released that wasn't first tested and seen in public before release. It could be OChain related bc...
I can't remember the last SRAM stuff to be released that wasn't first tested and seen in public before release. It could be OChain related bc any changes there aren't so obvious but otherwise when have there been big "SURPRISE" releases?
Goldstone has been running a 16 degree ochain r prototype, so that’s a possibility for launch. The current models only go to 12 degrees.
Well, turns out the manufacturer of such shiny products, happens to be engineers themselves, and after testing and comparisons came to the conclusion that, with their design, the difference in stiffness between the 15 and 20 was only 4% a % that can easily be offset with the right choice of hub rather than something random like most people run ( see Yeti and their podium builds with dt 350 )
After riding the Edge with the 15mm axle and i9 hydra 2 front hub, I came to the conclusion that I don’t need a 20mm axle and the pain to own one in case I blow my wheel and I need another one asap, there’s no lack of stiffness of any sort, it works beautifully, buttery smooth and precise.
So, if marketing geniuses of the big brands tell me to go 20mm while keeping their steerer tubes thin and tiny crown, pardon me but I don’t believe them/ care
Oh, and don’t get me wrong, I totally appreciate the comments by @CascadeComponents they’re always super informative even when I don’t even understand half of it,
And I’m not saying those calculations are wrong either, just that it’s one part of the picture, so unless we’re comparing the exact same product with the only difference being the axle dimension, it’s kind of useless to compare
The whole chassis, crown, steerer tube, material, hub, all play a big role as a system then just the axle diameter.
I think with these inverted forks, the issues people are talking about with regard to axle stiffness is the ability of the legs to move independently. The hub and axle are the main thing keeping the lower legs moving together.
The only other real issue I’ve heard of, is of some of the more XC intend forks having some twist under braking. I’m not sure how much of that is the axle preventing that, and how much goes back to the crown flexing very minimally.
This is spot on. I have probably 5000 miles on Megatower V1 and 2000 miles on V2. The SC lower link VPP bike have a "simple" but effective kinematic that can highlight differences in shock characteristics and performance. Shorter travel bikes seem to typically be optimized around a single shock and base tune, when you deviate from that it's uncharted waters. You might end up with something really good or something bad.
From a philosophical standpoint I think more MTB journalism outlets need to dial in on this. Testing different shocks on different frames with different riders is a huge amount of variables. As an engineer I find it frustrating how un-scientific it all is. I find the QuarterHP approach of "all we test is the frame" to be a step in the right direction.
Also to add to my gripes about bike journalism, I like what NSMB does where they ride something until it breaks and then tear it down and service it, then report back. Too many outlets just do an "initial impressions" but I am unimpressed as I tend to own things for 3-5 years and need to know how hard it is to service or fix.
in my layman thinking, the totally unnecessary overbuilt crown on the f38, compared to the f35 i had before (pre 25 update), does more to stiffness than the 4% a bigger axle would do that a) increases unsprung mass even more and b) forces me to invest in a new front wheel. but everybody is free to provide a calculation for the difference in crown stiffness too. i‘ll wait.
From my dusty memory bank, the old 15mm thru axle system actually weighed more than the 20mm at the time I think?
f38 has it’s own axle design
I reckon axle stiffness inc clamping definitely contributes, but the dominant factors to torsional stiffness in an inverted fork are the tube section properties, bushing spacing, crown/leg interface stiffness and the hub design.
As such to say everyone is right 🤷
-20mm axle is stiffer.
-Other shit be flexin anyway, so the end user would struggle to notice a difference between axle types.
Let's just bring back the lefty
I can't remember the last SRAM stuff to be released that wasn't first tested and seen in public before release. It could be OChain related bc any changes there aren't so obvious but otherwise when have there been big "SURPRISE" releases?
An S170 frame is almost $4k USD which is the same price as many carbon frames now sadly.
It would be amazing if they did 11sp for e-bikes. 12 is just not meant for them with the extra power but I want to be able to stand on my eebs derailleur.
I really appreciate the math. It’s funny when people act like they can’t feel the difference but i succinctly remember the “axel wars” and as a taller rider my riding absolutely reflected that
1.15mmwas a patent thing between the RS & FOX teams and actually ruined front ends handling for most riders when RS lost the war and caved to Shimano fox and 15qr. And 2. 20mm is superior and you can just feel it almost all the time .
The older 20mm 29er forks that rock shox made were literally decades ahead in stiffness, to the new podium. So it was (deeply meta) ironic to this old fart that the podium went 20mm. And that the boxxer is playing with 15 boost.
Cést la vie
Modern quality hubs and bushing overlap maths make this a non issue …. I think,
There's a good thread already going on this topic. Basically that hub design/configuration has more impact on stiffness of an inverted fork than axle diameter.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/enginerding-inverted-forks-and-fron…
Last year, for one of my engineering classes I did a simulation in Ansys titled “The influence of the axle diameter on the torsional stiffness in an USD bicycle fork”. It was an exercise more focused on Ansys, not on being scientific, but still the results were interesting. Here’s a link to the presentation .
TLDR: 20mm was only 4% stiffer
In reality though, torsional flex is coming from where, braking forces, and steering? Darren from push has talked about how there is little actual ground reaction torque from steering. I get that the front wheel sometimes gets trapped between some rocks, or in a rut, but it's pretty rare right?
I guess I'm just wondering how the braking forces might compare to steering forces. If a fork steers straight when heavily braking on pavement, does that mean it's torsionally stiff enough for riding?
When you don't have the bridge it's not only the steering torsional stiffness that is important. You also have to balance the forces left and right. The spring only acts in one way while the damper always oposes movement. The way the axle gives torsional stiffness also impacts how well both legs travel up and down at the same time.
Definitely a difference in feel with my 170mm 29 Zeb Ultimate 2.1 damper generation when going from standard hub caps to torque caps on my i9 Hydra front hub. I preferred the torque caps stiffer feel, but I’m taller and heavier than the average rider.
I think it goes without saying that the torsional stiffness of a fork on a whole is a function of many things. The only point was that, assuming the same material, there isn’t a magic 15 mm axle that’s stiffer than a 20 mm axle. Yes the hub adds to the torsional rigidity of the axle. If you had the same exact hub layout, the 20 mm version would add more stiffness than the 15 mm version. The rigidity of the hub is limited by axle preload and coefficient of friction at the various hub interfaces. Proper axle torque would be essential here.
https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bikes/mountain/trail-bikes/bad-habit
Any details on this? I can't seem to get the page to load. But love them using the bad habit name. A bit better than the plus bike it previously was.
guys, no endless tech discussions please! there are dedicated threads for these
On the topic "SRAM stuff": Maybe some limited Maven+Motive Sets again
And love some more options for the Flight Attendant shocks, too. Everything but the SuperDeluxe Ultimate FA and the SIDLuxe FA are OEM only (right?).
Would really like some options for smaller bikes like the Reya thats not the SIDLuxe FA
"Bad Habit" looks sick!
Is it just me or does this bike a have a classic knolly basement vibes? Obviously the rocker and stays are way different but the seat tube visually pointing at the front end of the bb cluster???
Maybe Knolly can sue Cannondale before it gets released…
iv got one of these for Christmas and its actually really good. Think I paid £100 ish for the full kit on a black friday sale. The mountain industry has a gaping hole in it. Selling ppl £1000 forks £6000+ bikes and not even a fuck you on how to help setting them up accurately at home.. It is very slick, works seamlessly and I have so far improved my set up. I ride alone. My Mrs isn't gonna help me set my sag. It's allowed to me run deeper into my travel. Couldn't comment on the long term quality of the product but I don't see anyone else putting their efforts into helping anyone. Defo recommend with anyone getting into the finer set up side particularly useful on a coil shock.
You know aside from the carbon, the shock layout, the yoke, the tube diameter, the paint work, the branding, the build, it's pretty much a knolly.
Found it.....
"The reason facts don't change most people's opinions is because most people don't use facts to form their opinions. They use their opinions to form their 'facts'." — Wayne Gretzky probably
In an Instagram Q&A, Sram has stated that there will be no LTD brakes this year
Goldstone has been running a 16 degree ochain r prototype, so that’s a possibility for launch. The current models only go to 12 degrees.
Post a reply to: 2026 MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation - Longer and Slacker