Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which...
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which is unusual being this close to launch. Anyone hearing anything new?
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's...
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean).
It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack.
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal...
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal who runs a service center. I'm using it in my fat bike's dropper and brakes. Works a treat in the dropper, giving great return speed at 10deg F and running lower pressure in the cartridge. Brakes are unphased so far, but I'll have to wait n see how it handles summer heat before I make a firm value call on it for that use.
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why...
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing.
Yup "like water" is redlines 0wt product and actually what fox rebadges to use as their seatpost fluid (although they call it 1.5wt). Crazy low viscosity of 4 cSt and insanely high viscosity index which was very very stable at high temperatures (which I tested here https://tinyurl.com/4ucjdsc7) which is good for something like an off road truck but not mtbs where the operating ranges are much smaller. The downsides are those kinds of oils oxidise really fast and turn your internals dark brown, plus they tend to be super noisy.
Oils are a useful tuning tool for some dampers - but not all of them respond much to changes in viscosity so you will get mixed results. The trade offs of using different oils can be risky too, especially if its not being changed regularly plus you need to track what you used so it doesn't get changed out in the next service!
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency...
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency...
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it...
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
Derailing obviously... Renault used a TDM, yes. As far as I read into it, having the force on the tyre in F1 as constant as possible gives you the best grip, any spikes in the loads influence this. So they were looking for a platform that would be even more stable. The suspension is basically rock solid as it's there, primarily, to support the aero platform. In the olden days (13" wheels) the tyre was an essential part of the suspension, less so with the move to 18" wheels (the sidewall is smaller). It was never mentioned that the TDM tuned out the own frequency of the tyre, but it could be used because of that.
Anywho, the FIA outlawed it under the 'moveable aero devices' regulation at the time as on an F1 car technically only the unsprung components can move, but in reality they did not want to have cars with 25 kilo weights suspended in the nosecones. The lack of a TDM was later solved by McLaren who pioneered the inerter (which resists acceleration and effectively makes the sprung portion of the car, from the tyre standpoint, much heavier through it).
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency...
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it...
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
Derailing obviously... Renault used a TDM, yes. As far as I read into it, having the force on the tyre in F1 as constant as possible...
Derailing obviously... Renault used a TDM, yes. As far as I read into it, having the force on the tyre in F1 as constant as possible gives you the best grip, any spikes in the loads influence this. So they were looking for a platform that would be even more stable. The suspension is basically rock solid as it's there, primarily, to support the aero platform. In the olden days (13" wheels) the tyre was an essential part of the suspension, less so with the move to 18" wheels (the sidewall is smaller). It was never mentioned that the TDM tuned out the own frequency of the tyre, but it could be used because of that.
Anywho, the FIA outlawed it under the 'moveable aero devices' regulation at the time as on an F1 car technically only the unsprung components can move, but in reality they did not want to have cars with 25 kilo weights suspended in the nosecones. The lack of a TDM was later solved by McLaren who pioneered the inerter (which resists acceleration and effectively makes the sprung portion of the car, from the tyre standpoint, much heavier through it).
They also solved it with the FRIC hydraulic suspension that was also subsequently banned. F1 has a unique problem because they require such incredibly high stiffness in heave (the entire chassis going down relative to wheels) but are forbidden to connect the front and rear suspension together, because rules.
Somebody on here or on MTBR did a test of bolting an inerter to a rear shock mount and found the results, bad haha.
Is there any real world applicated of a TMD in a high frequency non stable application like a mountain bike? I mostly know of them being used in buildings. Maybe high end boats use them for stability?
FRIC does a different thing, prevents roll in corners and pitch changes under braking and accelerating but otherwise frees up the suspension corners over bumps. Inverters (and tuned mass dampers) oppose acceleration while dampers oppose velocity. FRIC just tunes how that is achieved. Springs oppose displacement obviously. And to have it stiff in heave they use third springs.
As for inerters on bikes, it was actually @Dave_Camp .
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Escape Collective has some photos of it from a trade show in Australia. Appears to be an alloy clone of the Epic. Thought the price might be a little lower.
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Escape Collective has some photos of it from a trade show in Australia. Appears to be an alloy clone of the Epic. Thought the price might...
Escape Collective has some photos of it from a trade show in Australia. Appears to be an alloy clone of the Epic. Thought the price might be a little lower.
It looks like they dropped the low end carbon models. The lowest price is 5000 now.
A little over 28 pounds for a medium frame seems pretty good though.
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Not sketchy at all I've been told. The relatively low Young's modulus of aluminium let's you get away with quite a bit of deflection on an aluminium structure without any major impacts on fatigue. Fatigue is apparently an incredibly easy problem to fix from a design perspective; just add a little more material and you're good.
Bikes these days undergo excessive testing, both through FEM and on a test bench. Modern bikes are designed to withstand hundreds of thousands of full load cycles and in reality, you'll never even get anywhere close to riding your bike that much.
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
I assume this frame was made by Merida, part owners of specialized - Merida have the alloy flex stay thing figured out, their One-Sixty models are tough as heck - rated for heavy bike park use with a lifetime warranty.
Speaking of ownership times, i've not had an alloy frame last more than a year until I got an alloy Merida.
It seems Canyon is experimenting the KIS Steering Stabilizer on the XCO/Marathon bikes as well. I noticed that small black plastic with a screw on the top of the top tube (Canyon Lux CFR), on Luca's bike and accidentally noticed something strange: that's must be a KIS!
Source: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-actual-weights-of-11-world-cup-xc-rac…
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Thankfully someone else beat me to this.
I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel" it, and that aluminum can be made to work just fine depending on a myriad of factors.
But instead, I just wanted an excuse to post an OG flex stay alloy bike (that worked)
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new...
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Thankfully someone else beat me to this.
I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel"...
Thankfully someone else beat me to this.
I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel" it, and that aluminum can be made to work just fine depending on a myriad of factors.
But instead, I just wanted an excuse to post an OG flex stay alloy bike (that worked)
Huh, and I though Cannondale Scalpels were first to the party, but alas - indeed it is Gary Fisher. Mind blown!
Aluminum bikes are not disposable, they are recyclable. Carbon bikes are disposable and not recyclable.
I heard Big S kept their aluminum bike team when some...
Aluminum bikes are not disposable, they are recyclable. Carbon bikes are disposable and not recyclable.
I heard Big S kept their aluminum bike team when some of them carbon folks got laid off. The return of aluminum is here!
Sure, but carbon is repairable. I'm one of those that wouldn't buy an aluminum flex stay bike, or really any aluminum bike that's on the lighter side of things. I likely have anchoring bias from breaking so many aluminum bikes over the years.
The reality is that the vast majority of MTBs won't get ridden often or hard, so these are fine bikes for the average consumer.
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Thankfully someone else beat me to this.
I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel"...
Thankfully someone else beat me to this.
I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel" it, and that aluminum can be made to work just fine depending on a myriad of factors.
But instead, I just wanted an excuse to post an OG flex stay alloy bike (that worked)
Can of worms opened!
Yes it's recyclable, but not into its original form. Can use it in chopped strand stuff. Resin has to be burnt. Very...
Can of worms opened!
Yes it's recyclable, but not into its original form. Can use it in chopped strand stuff. Resin has to be burnt. Very expensive. No-one really does it.
Ally can be, but uses shit loads of energy to extract in raw form.
Swings and roundabouts. No-one ever quantifies the environmental damage. Chose your material and be a dick about it
If you really cared you'd hang onto your current bike until it brakes and not buy another one!
Fortunately the geometry formula for each "class" or "genre" of MTB has settled down to the point where holding on to a frame until it breaks is viable*. My 2018 trail bike is still pretty close to "modern" in every dimension other than the seat tube angle, which is not something I think you could say about 99% of 2012 frames at the time**. Even the parts are more or less the same as those being specified on brand new bikes.
* Of course it was always viable – just ride! – but the new hotness isn't significantly different any more.
** Amusingly my 2021 enduro bike is more "behind" modern enduro bikes than the 2018 trail bike is behind modern trail bikes, but it only takes an angle set to make up the difference.
I've still got my early 90's apollo everest in the garage (With manitou Ti SX's
)
that elevated CS was so soft you had 20mm of axle travel lol. I rode the shit out of that bike, it was so compliant in the rear end and is still uncracked. I'll restore it one day.
They looked amazing
Mine looking a little rough lol, next to it is an almost new Kona Cindercone. I have a problem
New Ripmo with straighter tubes sounds great!
Having worked directly for the mothership , I hate Terk............so much.
Before my pb account got suspended, I photoshoped a straight top tube Rimpo AF. Looks so much better, but I didn't save the image offline
https://andreaniusa.com/product/supermoussepac1-l/
Someone is already selling mousse for mountain bikes, I will not be trying it but maybe someone on here would.
Yup "like water" is redlines 0wt product and actually what fox rebadges to use as their seatpost fluid (although they call it 1.5wt). Crazy low viscosity of 4 cSt and insanely high viscosity index which was very very stable at high temperatures (which I tested here https://tinyurl.com/4ucjdsc7) which is good for something like an off road truck but not mtbs where the operating ranges are much smaller. The downsides are those kinds of oils oxidise really fast and turn your internals dark brown, plus they tend to be super noisy.
Oils are a useful tuning tool for some dampers - but not all of them respond much to changes in viscosity so you will get mixed results. The trade offs of using different oils can be risky too, especially if its not being changed regularly plus you need to track what you used so it doesn't get changed out in the next service!
"I will not be trying it." lol
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
I suspect I'm not making a great analogy here (sorry, not my field!) but this is the first thing I thought of and obvs had to say it out loud
Derailing obviously... Renault used a TDM, yes. As far as I read into it, having the force on the tyre in F1 as constant as possible gives you the best grip, any spikes in the loads influence this. So they were looking for a platform that would be even more stable. The suspension is basically rock solid as it's there, primarily, to support the aero platform. In the olden days (13" wheels) the tyre was an essential part of the suspension, less so with the move to 18" wheels (the sidewall is smaller). It was never mentioned that the TDM tuned out the own frequency of the tyre, but it could be used because of that.
Anywho, the FIA outlawed it under the 'moveable aero devices' regulation at the time as on an F1 car technically only the unsprung components can move, but in reality they did not want to have cars with 25 kilo weights suspended in the nosecones. The lack of a TDM was later solved by McLaren who pioneered the inerter (which resists acceleration and effectively makes the sprung portion of the car, from the tyre standpoint, much heavier through it).
They also solved it with the FRIC hydraulic suspension that was also subsequently banned. F1 has a unique problem because they require such incredibly high stiffness in heave (the entire chassis going down relative to wheels) but are forbidden to connect the front and rear suspension together, because rules.
Somebody on here or on MTBR did a test of bolting an inerter to a rear shock mount and found the results, bad haha.
Is there any real world applicated of a TMD in a high frequency non stable application like a mountain bike? I mostly know of them being used in buildings. Maybe high end boats use them for stability?
FRIC does a different thing, prevents roll in corners and pitch changes under braking and accelerating but otherwise frees up the suspension corners over bumps. Inverters (and tuned mass dampers) oppose acceleration while dampers oppose velocity. FRIC just tunes how that is achieved. Springs oppose displacement obviously. And to have it stiff in heave they use third springs.
As for inerters on bikes, it was actually @Dave_Camp .
F1 Tech Rumors and Innovation
Specialized Chisel Full Suspension Just added to the Specialized USA site. I see Articles via google search that are not available to read yet. Guessing new product announcement this am?
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/chisel-comp-shimano/p/4274028?color=5…
Escape Collective has some photos of it from a trade show in Australia. Appears to be an alloy clone of the Epic. Thought the price might be a little lower.
It looks like they dropped the low end carbon models. The lowest price is 5000 now.
A little over 28 pounds for a medium frame seems pretty good though.
More info on the new Chisel here: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/speed-metal-all-new-chisel.
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable.
Not sketchy at all I've been told. The relatively low Young's modulus of aluminium let's you get away with quite a bit of deflection on an aluminium structure without any major impacts on fatigue. Fatigue is apparently an incredibly easy problem to fix from a design perspective; just add a little more material and you're good.
Bikes these days undergo excessive testing, both through FEM and on a test bench. Modern bikes are designed to withstand hundreds of thousands of full load cycles and in reality, you'll never even get anywhere close to riding your bike that much.
I assume this frame was made by Merida, part owners of specialized - Merida have the alloy flex stay thing figured out, their One-Sixty models are tough as heck - rated for heavy bike park use with a lifetime warranty.
Speaking of ownership times, i've not had an alloy frame last more than a year until I got an alloy Merida.
It seems Canyon is experimenting the KIS Steering Stabilizer on the XCO/Marathon bikes as well. I noticed that small black plastic with a screw on the top of the top tube (Canyon Lux CFR), on Luca's bike and accidentally noticed something strange: that's must be a KIS!
Source: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-actual-weights-of-11-world-cup-xc-rac…
Thankfully someone else beat me to this.
I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel" it, and that aluminum can be made to work just fine depending on a myriad of factors.
But instead, I just wanted an excuse to post an OG flex stay alloy bike (that worked)
Do you have alu h-bars on your bike?
You'll be just fine
Aluminum bikes are not disposable, they are recyclable. Carbon bikes are disposable and not recyclable.
I heard Big S kept their aluminum bike team when some of them carbon folks got laid off. The return of aluminum is here!
Huh, and I though Cannondale Scalpels were first to the party, but alas - indeed it is Gary Fisher. Mind blown!
Where does the myth come from that carbon is not recyclable? Just because very few do it does not make it impossible.
As soon as there is a consumer demand for products made from it, “they” will find a way to make the processes more efficient and cost effective.
Can of worms opened!
Yes it's recyclable, but not into its original form. Can use it in chopped strand stuff. Resin has to be burnt. Very expensive. No-one really does it.
Ally can be, but uses shit loads of energy to extract in raw form.
Swings and roundabouts. No-one ever quantifies the environmental damage. Chose your material and be a dick about it
If you really cared you'd hang onto your current bike until it brakes and not buy another one!
Sure, but carbon is repairable. I'm one of those that wouldn't buy an aluminum flex stay bike, or really any aluminum bike that's on the lighter side of things. I likely have anchoring bias from breaking so many aluminum bikes over the years.
The reality is that the vast majority of MTBs won't get ridden often or hard, so these are fine bikes for the average consumer.
1998-99 Ibis would like a word...
Fortunately the geometry formula for each "class" or "genre" of MTB has settled down to the point where holding on to a frame until it breaks is viable*. My 2018 trail bike is still pretty close to "modern" in every dimension other than the seat tube angle, which is not something I think you could say about 99% of 2012 frames at the time**. Even the parts are more or less the same as those being specified on brand new bikes.
* Of course it was always viable – just ride! – but the new hotness isn't significantly different any more.
** Amusingly my 2021 enduro bike is more "behind" modern enduro bikes than the 2018 trail bike is behind modern trail bikes, but it only takes an angle set to make up the difference.
I've still got my early 90's apollo everest in the garage (With manitou Ti SX's
)
that elevated CS was so soft you had 20mm of axle travel lol. I rode the shit out of that bike, it was so compliant in the rear end and is still uncracked. I'll restore it one day.
They looked amazing
Mine looking a little rough lol, next to it is an almost new Kona Cindercone. I have a problem