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nah that's when Shimano Saint was released

No Lycra here. All XC and downcountry all the time since I'm in the midwest of the US. Pedaling matters 100% of the time to me. It doesn't matter to you and that's cool. Most people on mountain bikes (not ebikes) do some amount of pedaling where they'd find themselves less happy if their experience pedaling were noticeable made worse. Remember, Vital's forum is where the most enthusiastic of the enthusiasts hang out. The MOST obsessed enthusiasts who are often pushing themselves and their gear to greater and greater heights in the pursuit of mountain bike progression and achievement are...

What's with the carbon CC bikes? What innovation have these bikes seen in the recent decades? Seems like you conveniently disregard all the additional drag, dropped chains etc that come with high pivots. There's no high pivot xc bikes that I know of, does that mean high pivot is not worth it? I'm not literally saying that every bike out there should have a gearbox. I'm just pointing out the paradox of people making their bikes much harder to pedal over the past few years, often for much more marginal gains than what's on offer by eliminating the derailleur. I...

Coming soon! Vital Stables!

As though the the gearbox wasn't also invented in the 1800s... Feel free to hate the lightest, simplest, most serviceable, most efficient method of changing gears on a bicycle that humanity has invented so far, but the rest of us will accept derailleurs where they make sense.

1860s technology = a horse ? 🫣

Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.

Yeti Sixfinity enduro bike from la thuile pits here - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/yeti-sixfinity-enduro-bike-spotted-… (in its own thread as to not disturb efficiency discussions : )

I am going to be completely transparent here in that I work for FSA, but I will say I worked really hard on making the 31.8 40mm Gradient alloy bar one of the most compliant on the market. and here is the proof: (chart from PB article)

xynradital

they are about to, but Conti will call it xyzzy or some shit

Guys and gals, one less post ride beer will do what a $1k drivetrain can't do. Chill, and go ride your bikes (though maybe not today if you're in the heat zone)

He’s suggesting that the benefits of electronic suspension would offset the negatives of pedalling with a high pivot bike. People complain about pedalling a high pivot bike. But if other parts of the bike were more efficient, and it brought you to an acceptable level of efficiency of current bikes, would people complain less?

I typically use the climb switch once per ride. I like to turn it on halfway up the climb when I remember I have it and might as well use it. I tend to turn it off halfway down the descent when I’m puzzling over why my suspension isn’t working. I suspect I am not in the minority.

Welcome to the bike industry haha we nerd out trying to solve a problem that realistically is so small or doesn’t even exist. Got to love it

Losses from bearings are extremely minimal and not noticeable. ~0.1w. The losses in an idler bike are coming from forcing the chain to articulate under tension. Most mtb riders probably have somewhere between 5-10+% loss from the drivetrain (chain). Those losses come from making the chain articulate under load via internal chain friction. Forcing that extra loaded articulation I would expect losses to increase by 30-50%. So your typical dirty oiled mtb chain goes from losing 20w to 30w at 200w chill pedaling load and only gets worse from there. 5w increases are generally considered noticeable. The only thing you...

"anti-squat and electronic suspension rumors and innovation"

Yes, but I think other people in this thread have clearly explained why those efficiencies don't offer any unique benefits to high pivot, gearbox, or idler-based designs. Yes, electronics would make high pivot, gearbox, and idler-based bikes more efficient, but at the same time they'd be making all the other bikes more efficient, too. If Dave has four apples and Lisa has six apples, and you give them both four apples, Lisa still has more apples than Dave. Now, I guess if you're saying that electronic lockouts give them both the equivalent of 100 additional apples, then I would concede...

The thing that people miss about the lockout/FA efficiency thing is that it's not just about efficiency but power production. When the bike is firmer, you have more to push AGAINST. Most people do power tests on their road bikes because they know it will boost their numbers. The longer the interval, the easier it is to do on the MTB vs the road bike, but those shorter harder efforts are generally considered easier on the road bike. Most people I know do vo2 max intervals on their road bike basically for vanity. But there is an argument it's actually...

In my observation no, nobody stands up while climbing. I came from the old school Kirt Voreis school of climbing, which says to stand up all the time to train your descending muscles. Plus I spent a ton of time on singlespeeds, because it reinforced the Voreis approach, and because it's a fun challenge in a bizarre way, but that puts you and I in a very small camp. Most people on road bikes or mountain bikes will sit 99% of the time and will pretty much only stand to descend or sprint.