a quote from Pinkbike about Jonty's bike ""Holding a 760mm wide 31.8mm aluminum Burgtec handlebar. Every Yeti athlete runs 31.8mm bars, keeping inventory a little bit simpler." I...
a quote from Pinkbike about Jonty's bike
""Holding a 760mm wide 31.8mm aluminum Burgtec handlebar. Every Yeti athlete runs 31.8mm bars, keeping inventory a little bit simpler."
I know Burgtec is releasing some new stuff super soon... new Asa bars, new cloud seat, Asa grips (same as odi longneck) ... but are 31.8 Ride Wide DH bars expected? Interesting to see that quote. I figured there is no way every single person on Burgtecs right now are on 35s and a lot don't look like 35s. Hoping for some insight. Would be awesome for more Burgtec 31.8 options
I have no insider info... but IME burgtec is up there with renthal in terms of the stiffest handlebars I've ever ridden. My assumption is that...
I have no insider info... but IME burgtec is up there with renthal in terms of the stiffest handlebars I've ever ridden. My assumption is that they are running 31.8 to try and get back into a more reasonable compliance window. I never thought a handlebar could be so stiff that it would wreck me... but my most recent time on either brands 35mm alloy bars has proven otherwise. Maybe things have changed in the last 3 years as that was the last time I ran either.
Interesting feedback! Good to know and think about. I know Renthals are notoriously stiff but didn't know that Burgtecs were as well. I guess I am...
Interesting feedback! Good to know and think about. I know Renthals are notoriously stiff but didn't know that Burgtecs were as well. I guess I am so used to it at this point. My two main bikes and previous several have all had Enve bars and Burgtec bars. They all have definitely been on the stiffer side.
Curious if we will see 31.8s coming then... also I do wish more companies had the option of less sweep like Renthals. I think thats why I dig my Enve Minnaarbar V2s so much. Always a little strange going back to the more sweep with Burgtecs.
Curious to see what Burgtec will bring soon
You should really try some carbon 31.8 bars, I too had Renthal fatbar carbons and then burgtec ride wide enduros, turns out a compliant bar basically erased my arm pump. I'd certainly try a 31.8 burgtec bar.
Actual rumor time, LBS told me new SB160 frames are going to be very hard for shops to get their hands on, but he said expect to see a full release soon. Yeti is still going to ship out another batch of SB165 frames, so no update there yet. It seems that historically, Yeti updates the race bike at least a few months ahead of the play bike anyways.
I have no insider info... but IME burgtec is up there with renthal in terms of the stiffest handlebars I've ever ridden. My assumption is that...
I have no insider info... but IME burgtec is up there with renthal in terms of the stiffest handlebars I've ever ridden. My assumption is that they are running 31.8 to try and get back into a more reasonable compliance window. I never thought a handlebar could be so stiff that it would wreck me... but my most recent time on either brands 35mm alloy bars has proven otherwise. Maybe things have changed in the last 3 years as that was the last time I ran either.
Interesting feedback! Good to know and think about. I know Renthals are notoriously stiff but didn't know that Burgtecs were as well. I guess I am...
Interesting feedback! Good to know and think about. I know Renthals are notoriously stiff but didn't know that Burgtecs were as well. I guess I am so used to it at this point. My two main bikes and previous several have all had Enve bars and Burgtec bars. They all have definitely been on the stiffer side.
Curious if we will see 31.8s coming then... also I do wish more companies had the option of less sweep like Renthals. I think thats why I dig my Enve Minnaarbar V2s so much. Always a little strange going back to the more sweep with Burgtecs.
You should really try some carbon 31.8 bars, I too had Renthal fatbar carbons and then burgtec ride wide enduros, turns out a compliant bar basically...
You should really try some carbon 31.8 bars, I too had Renthal fatbar carbons and then burgtec ride wide enduros, turns out a compliant bar basically erased my arm pump. I'd certainly try a 31.8 burgtec bar.
Actual rumor time, LBS told me new SB160 frames are going to be very hard for shops to get their hands on, but he said expect to see a full release soon. Yeti is still going to ship out another batch of SB165 frames, so no update there yet. It seems that historically, Yeti updates the race bike at least a few months ahead of the play bike anyways.
I am going to be completely transparent here in that I work for FSA, but I will say I worked really hard on making the 31.8 40mm Gradient alloy bar one of the most compliant on the market. and here is the proof: (chart from PB article)
With all these e-bike progressions getting quicker, what the likelihood we see the fast af motor gearbox e-enduro pedelecs/mopeds from major manufacture in the next 9-12...
With all these e-bike progressions getting quicker, what the likelihood we see the fast af motor gearbox e-enduro pedelecs/mopeds from major manufacture in the next 9-12 months, as these crazy machines iterate as fast as consumer electronics????
Seems like if you weee planning on buying an e-bike in the next year ish, it would make sense to wait and see what the big players are about to do to preserve market share against Dji.
- yes I’ve been reading brines.
Damn it if mopeds of all things finally convince the average mountain biker to actually think about not having an 1860's style rear derailleur(*) on their bikes...maybe even try riding a gearbox.
*) Apparently they can be used as a step stool recently, I guess in case you need to reach stuff
With all these e-bike progressions getting quicker, what the likelihood we see the fast af motor gearbox e-enduro pedelecs/mopeds from major manufacture in the next 9-12...
With all these e-bike progressions getting quicker, what the likelihood we see the fast af motor gearbox e-enduro pedelecs/mopeds from major manufacture in the next 9-12 months, as these crazy machines iterate as fast as consumer electronics????
Seems like if you weee planning on buying an e-bike in the next year ish, it would make sense to wait and see what the big players are about to do to preserve market share against Dji.
Damn it if mopeds of all things finally convince the average mountain biker to actually think about not having an 1860's style rear derailleur(*) on their...
Damn it if mopeds of all things finally convince the average mountain biker to actually think about not having an 1860's style rear derailleur(*) on their bikes...maybe even try riding a gearbox.
*) Apparently they can be used as a step stool recently, I guess in case you need to reach stuff
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings...
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires etc that make so much more of a difference in the effort on the way up, while offering much less on the way back down than a gear box. Trying to focus on the innovation here. Everyone heard that it's impossible to pedal a bike with a gearbox (mostly from those who read it on the internet or tried it once...). Derailleurs are stupid and if it takes a moped to get rid of them so be it.
As though the the gearbox wasn't also invented in the 1800s...
Feel free to hate the lightest, simplest, most serviceable, most efficient method of changing gears on a bicycle that humanity has invented so far, but the rest of us will accept derailleurs where they make sense.
I'd like to think within 5-10 years, most emtbs, AND trail, enduro and DH bikes will have gearboxes and no derailleur. Once it's a bit lighter and more efficient (arguably it's already close enough), it's the clear next step in innovation as geo has mostly settled lower longer and slacker enough (lol). It's only a matter of time
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings...
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires...
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires etc that make so much more of a difference in the effort on the way up, while offering much less on the way back down than a gear box. Trying to focus on the innovation here. Everyone heard that it's impossible to pedal a bike with a gearbox (mostly from those who read it on the internet or tried it once...). Derailleurs are stupid and if it takes a moped to get rid of them so be it.
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.
You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC comps in the coming years, waiting for the gearbox to make its debut. I don't keep up with the UCI enduro scene. Is anyone there running a gearbox? I know Dalt Stone runs one in local comps in BC. There are a few in the DH circuit, but I suspect that's more about the Gates $100k purse. They definitely make more sense for gravity sports.
I'm not against gearboxes, it's just that the current offerings don't meet my needs, and I don't see that changing any time soon, if ever. I'll be pretty surprised if DJI ventures outside of e-bikes, so I wouldn't count on "moped" technology from them finding its way into pedal bikes.
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings...
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires...
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires etc that make so much more of a difference in the effort on the way up, while offering much less on the way back down than a gear box. Trying to focus on the innovation here. Everyone heard that it's impossible to pedal a bike with a gearbox (mostly from those who read it on the internet or tried it once...). Derailleurs are stupid and if it takes a moped to get rid of them so be it.
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC...
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.
You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC comps in the coming years, waiting for the gearbox to make its debut. I don't keep up with the UCI enduro scene. Is anyone there running a gearbox? I know Dalt Stone runs one in local comps in BC. There are a few in the DH circuit, but I suspect that's more about the Gates $100k purse. They definitely make more sense for gravity sports.
I'm not against gearboxes, it's just that the current offerings don't meet my needs, and I don't see that changing any time soon, if ever. I'll be pretty surprised if DJI ventures outside of e-bikes, so I wouldn't count on "moped" technology from them finding its way into pedal bikes.
There's the Priority team running them this season and Hattie Harnden already won a womens EWS round on a Nicolai gearbox bike last season.
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings...
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires...
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires etc that make so much more of a difference in the effort on the way up, while offering much less on the way back down than a gear box. Trying to focus on the innovation here. Everyone heard that it's impossible to pedal a bike with a gearbox (mostly from those who read it on the internet or tried it once...). Derailleurs are stupid and if it takes a moped to get rid of them so be it.
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC...
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.
You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC comps in the coming years, waiting for the gearbox to make its debut. I don't keep up with the UCI enduro scene. Is anyone there running a gearbox? I know Dalt Stone runs one in local comps in BC. There are a few in the DH circuit, but I suspect that's more about the Gates $100k purse. They definitely make more sense for gravity sports.
I'm not against gearboxes, it's just that the current offerings don't meet my needs, and I don't see that changing any time soon, if ever. I'll be pretty surprised if DJI ventures outside of e-bikes, so I wouldn't count on "moped" technology from them finding its way into pedal bikes.
What's with the carbon CC bikes? What innovation have these bikes seen in the recent decades?
Seems like you conveniently disregard all the additional drag, dropped chains etc that come with high pivots. There's no high pivot xc bikes that I know of, does that mean high pivot is not worth it?
I'm not literally saying that every bike out there should have a gearbox. I'm just pointing out the paradox of people making their bikes much harder to pedal over the past few years, often for much more marginal gains than what's on offer by eliminating the derailleur.
I could spend all day with my anecdotes from riding 2 bikes with the same wheels, same suspension, same ish geometry, pointing out how much better my experience in mud is with a belt etc and I'm sure there's someone feeling the opposite. That's not the point.
My point is that y'all seem to be rather selective about when does pedaling efficiency matter and when it doesn't, and wilfully blind to the fact even the latest and greatest derailleurs are fragile, unreliable and the "shifting under load" is much less predictable than a Pinion.
Obviously I'm referring to technical riding, whether it's downhill, Enduro or whatever you call riding over roots and rocks. I couldn't care less about what people in Lycra wear. It seems noone here talks about Lycra riding until a gearbox comes into play.
It's easily fuelled by most bike companies trying to sell you a new color and f-all innovation or willingness to try something different, but almost every argument I read online seems to fall apart any time I, or any of my friends try a gearbox.
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on the old Saint M820/825 cranks, despite the fact that those cranks come from the factory with a very permanently installed 104 BCD spider. How do we think they're doing this?
Do you think Shimano corporate is modifying the cranks for the teams, or are all the teams doing a garage bodge job like this?
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on...
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on the old Saint M820/825 cranks, despite the fact that those cranks come from the factory with a very permanently installed 104 BCD spider. How do we think they're doing this?
Do you think Shimano corporate is modifying the cranks for the teams, or are all the teams doing a garage bodge job like this?
Shimano provided the cranks. I remember when Jackson mentioned he got them.
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on...
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on the old Saint M820/825 cranks, despite the fact that those cranks come from the factory with a very permanently installed 104 BCD spider. How do we think they're doing this?
Do you think Shimano corporate is modifying the cranks for the teams, or are all the teams doing a garage bodge job like this?
I think calling what that guy did a garage bodge job is insulting to both that user's ingenuity and craftsmanship and as well as garage bodgers everywhere, who would view that as far too sophisticated.
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on...
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on the old Saint M820/825 cranks, despite the fact that those cranks come from the factory with a very permanently installed 104 BCD spider. How do we think they're doing this?
Do you think Shimano corporate is modifying the cranks for the teams, or are all the teams doing a garage bodge job like this?
I think calling what that guy did a garage bodge job is insulting to both that user's ingenuity and craftsmanship and as well as garage bodgers...
I think calling what that guy did a garage bodge job is insulting to both that user's ingenuity and craftsmanship and as well as garage bodgers everywhere, who would view that as far too sophisticated.
lol. Fair.
I guess what I meant was that it would be a bodge job in the eyes of Shimano, who would almost certainly deny warranty to any customer who did that to their cranks.
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires...
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires etc that make so much more of a difference in the effort on the way up, while offering much less on the way back down than a gear box. Trying to focus on the innovation here. Everyone heard that it's impossible to pedal a bike with a gearbox (mostly from those who read it on the internet or tried it once...). Derailleurs are stupid and if it takes a moped to get rid of them so be it.
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC...
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.
You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC comps in the coming years, waiting for the gearbox to make its debut. I don't keep up with the UCI enduro scene. Is anyone there running a gearbox? I know Dalt Stone runs one in local comps in BC. There are a few in the DH circuit, but I suspect that's more about the Gates $100k purse. They definitely make more sense for gravity sports.
I'm not against gearboxes, it's just that the current offerings don't meet my needs, and I don't see that changing any time soon, if ever. I'll be pretty surprised if DJI ventures outside of e-bikes, so I wouldn't count on "moped" technology from them finding its way into pedal bikes.
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on...
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on the old Saint M820/825 cranks, despite the fact that those cranks come from the factory with a very permanently installed 104 BCD spider. How do we think they're doing this?
Do you think Shimano corporate is modifying the cranks for the teams, or are all the teams doing a garage bodge job like this?
I think calling what that guy did a garage bodge job is insulting to both that user's ingenuity and craftsmanship and as well as garage bodgers...
I think calling what that guy did a garage bodge job is insulting to both that user's ingenuity and craftsmanship and as well as garage bodgers everywhere, who would view that as far too sophisticated.
lol. Fair.I guess what I meant was that it would be a bodge job in the eyes of Shimano, who would almost certainly deny warranty to...
lol. Fair.
I guess what I meant was that it would be a bodge job in the eyes of Shimano, who would almost certainly deny warranty to any customer who did that to their cranks.
If you read through it he did a batch of these cranks specifically for a WC DH team that was sponsored by Shimano...so no need to worry about warranty. Shimano now provides the teams with Saint cranks able to direct mount the Ochain.
I am sure if we geek out back through old race photos and find the first team spotted with Ochain on Saints we'll know exactly what team he did this for.
If you were looking for an O-chain compatible Shimano crank for DH, I've wondered before if you could just use XT 8130 (Superboost) cranks on 83mm shell bikes without the 4.5mm spindle spacers on both sides? How would a 73mm shell with 9mm of spindle spacers be functionally different than a 83mm shell with no spacers (other than the 1mm difference)?
What's with the carbon CC bikes? What innovation have these bikes seen in the recent decades?Seems like you conveniently disregard all the additional drag, dropped chains...
What's with the carbon CC bikes? What innovation have these bikes seen in the recent decades?
Seems like you conveniently disregard all the additional drag, dropped chains etc that come with high pivots. There's no high pivot xc bikes that I know of, does that mean high pivot is not worth it?
I'm not literally saying that every bike out there should have a gearbox. I'm just pointing out the paradox of people making their bikes much harder to pedal over the past few years, often for much more marginal gains than what's on offer by eliminating the derailleur.
I could spend all day with my anecdotes from riding 2 bikes with the same wheels, same suspension, same ish geometry, pointing out how much better my experience in mud is with a belt etc and I'm sure there's someone feeling the opposite. That's not the point.
My point is that y'all seem to be rather selective about when does pedaling efficiency matter and when it doesn't, and wilfully blind to the fact even the latest and greatest derailleurs are fragile, unreliable and the "shifting under load" is much less predictable than a Pinion.
Obviously I'm referring to technical riding, whether it's downhill, Enduro or whatever you call riding over roots and rocks. I couldn't care less about what people in Lycra wear. It seems noone here talks about Lycra riding until a gearbox comes into play.
It's easily fuelled by most bike companies trying to sell you a new color and f-all innovation or willingness to try something different, but almost every argument I read online seems to fall apart any time I, or any of my friends try a gearbox.
No Lycra here.
All XC and downcountry all the time since I'm in the midwest of the US. Pedaling matters 100% of the time to me. It doesn't matter to you and that's cool. Most people on mountain bikes (not ebikes) do some amount of pedaling where they'd find themselves less happy if their experience pedaling were noticeable made worse.
Remember, Vital's forum is where the most enthusiastic of the enthusiasts hang out. The MOST obsessed enthusiasts who are often pushing themselves and their gear to greater and greater heights in the pursuit of mountain bike progression and achievement are the folks who post here. Think about all the people who drive cars. Think about all the people who drive cars capable of going fast. Think about all the people who drive cars that can go fast and also test those cars making small tweaks to try to eek out a little more performance. Think about all the people who drive cars and test them and then gather in groups to talk about their tests and their findings and like to debate others about the aerodynamics of different sorts of paint. That last group is the VitalMTB forum.
You might have a little Baader-Meinhof action happening.
If you were looking for an O-chain compatible Shimano crank for DH, I've wondered before if you could just use XT 8130 (Superboost) cranks on 83mm...
If you were looking for an O-chain compatible Shimano crank for DH, I've wondered before if you could just use XT 8130 (Superboost) cranks on 83mm shell bikes without the 4.5mm spindle spacers on both sides? How would a 73mm shell with 9mm of spindle spacers be functionally different than a 83mm shell with no spacers (other than the 1mm difference)?
Yeah that should be possible - I remember a thing years ago where people were running some oddball XT crankset (I think it was for touring bikes at the time) because it had a longer spindle and would slot straight in to a DH bike. It might have been for a narrower q-factor instead of the chainring mounting but either way it fitted on the wider BB no worries but removing the spacers
No Lycra here.All XC and downcountry all the time since I'm in the midwest of the US. Pedaling matters 100% of the time to me. It...
No Lycra here.
All XC and downcountry all the time since I'm in the midwest of the US. Pedaling matters 100% of the time to me. It doesn't matter to you and that's cool. Most people on mountain bikes (not ebikes) do some amount of pedaling where they'd find themselves less happy if their experience pedaling were noticeable made worse.
Remember, Vital's forum is where the most enthusiastic of the enthusiasts hang out. The MOST obsessed enthusiasts who are often pushing themselves and their gear to greater and greater heights in the pursuit of mountain bike progression and achievement are the folks who post here. Think about all the people who drive cars. Think about all the people who drive cars capable of going fast. Think about all the people who drive cars that can go fast and also test those cars making small tweaks to try to eek out a little more performance. Think about all the people who drive cars and test them and then gather in groups to talk about their tests and their findings and like to debate others about the aerodynamics of different sorts of paint. That last group is the VitalMTB forum.
You might have a little Baader-Meinhof action happening.
That doesn't answer my question at all. Why do people push back about a few lost watts in something...yet there's all the hype in putting the same watts into some wee pulley in your driveline? I get that some people just like things the way they are, but this is a thread about innovation, not about pretty paint and faster socks.
Maybe I exaggerate when I say derailleur needs to die. What I hope for in this moped update is just that more people actually think about trying something new, rather than worry about 5mm on a chainstay.
I've just seen too many forums with interesting technical news degrade through $500 derailleur pulleys and annual paint jobs into talking about family fishing trips....
Yeah that should be possible - I remember a thing years ago where people were running some oddball XT crankset (I think it was for touring...
Yeah that should be possible - I remember a thing years ago where people were running some oddball XT crankset (I think it was for touring bikes at the time) because it had a longer spindle and would slot straight in to a DH bike. It might have been for a narrower q-factor instead of the chainring mounting but either way it fitted on the wider BB no worries but removing the spacers
That’s an OG modification! Back when Iron Horse were selling trail bikes with 83 mm bottom brackets. You had to get the XT “big ring” cranks that were indeed for touring. They didn’t just go right on though… You had to take a hacksaw to the granny ring tabs for clearance. You also couldn’t use any spacers, and it helped if your BB was faced to 82 mm. 😉
You should really try some carbon 31.8 bars, I too had Renthal fatbar carbons and then burgtec ride wide enduros, turns out a compliant bar basically erased my arm pump. I'd certainly try a 31.8 burgtec bar.
Actual rumor time, LBS told me new SB160 frames are going to be very hard for shops to get their hands on, but he said expect to see a full release soon. Yeti is still going to ship out another batch of SB165 frames, so no update there yet. It seems that historically, Yeti updates the race bike at least a few months ahead of the play bike anyways.
I am going to be completely transparent here in that I work for FSA, but I will say I worked really hard on making the 31.8 40mm Gradient alloy bar one of the most compliant on the market. and here is the proof: (chart from PB article)
Damn it if mopeds of all things finally convince the average mountain biker to actually think about not having an 1860's style rear derailleur(*) on their bikes...maybe even try riding a gearbox.
*) Apparently they can be used as a step stool recently, I guess in case you need to reach stuff
Thanks
Yeti Sixfinity enduro bike from la thuile pits here - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/yeti-sixfinity-enduro-bike-spotted-la-thuile (in its own thread as to not disturb efficiency discussions : )
Know of any carbon XC bikes that use a gearbox? For the downhill and adventure crowd, gearboxes may be a reasonable solution, but the current offerings are not great for those of us that like to pedal a lot. Maybe they'll get there eventually, but at the moment they would add about 3.5 lbs to my 22 lb bike, while costing me a bit on efficiency. I'll stick with the 1860's technology until something observably better comes along.
Blah blah blah heard this so many times, I pedal up to enjoy my ride down. Everyone's all about their idlers, heavy a$$ forks and tires etc that make so much more of a difference in the effort on the way up, while offering much less on the way back down than a gear box.
Trying to focus on the innovation here. Everyone heard that it's impossible to pedal a bike with a gearbox (mostly from those who read it on the internet or tried it once...). Derailleurs are stupid and if it takes a moped to get rid of them so be it.
1860s technology = a horse ? 🫣
As though the the gearbox wasn't also invented in the 1800s...
Feel free to hate the lightest, simplest, most serviceable, most efficient method of changing gears on a bicycle that humanity has invented so far, but the rest of us will accept derailleurs where they make sense.
I'd like to think within 5-10 years, most emtbs, AND trail, enduro and DH bikes will have gearboxes and no derailleur. Once it's a bit lighter and more efficient (arguably it's already close enough), it's the clear next step in innovation as geo has mostly settled lower longer and slacker enough (lol). It's only a matter of time
It’s not the gearboxes that are coming for you.
It’s the robots ….
Even the light as heck xc all day big ride bikes will be robots.
Oddly, I've never felt that the rear derailleur was holding me back in any way.
You have an interesting theory though. I'll be closely watching the XC comps in the coming years, waiting for the gearbox to make its debut. I don't keep up with the UCI enduro scene. Is anyone there running a gearbox? I know Dalt Stone runs one in local comps in BC. There are a few in the DH circuit, but I suspect that's more about the Gates $100k purse. They definitely make more sense for gravity sports.
I'm not against gearboxes, it's just that the current offerings don't meet my needs, and I don't see that changing any time soon, if ever. I'll be pretty surprised if DJI ventures outside of e-bikes, so I wouldn't count on "moped" technology from them finding its way into pedal bikes.
There's the Priority team running them this season and Hattie Harnden already won a womens EWS round on a Nicolai gearbox bike last season.
Coming soon! Vital Stables!
What's with the carbon CC bikes? What innovation have these bikes seen in the recent decades?
Seems like you conveniently disregard all the additional drag, dropped chains etc that come with high pivots. There's no high pivot xc bikes that I know of, does that mean high pivot is not worth it?
I'm not literally saying that every bike out there should have a gearbox. I'm just pointing out the paradox of people making their bikes much harder to pedal over the past few years, often for much more marginal gains than what's on offer by eliminating the derailleur.
I could spend all day with my anecdotes from riding 2 bikes with the same wheels, same suspension, same ish geometry, pointing out how much better my experience in mud is with a belt etc and I'm sure there's someone feeling the opposite. That's not the point.
My point is that y'all seem to be rather selective about when does pedaling efficiency matter and when it doesn't, and wilfully blind to the fact even the latest and greatest derailleurs are fragile, unreliable and the "shifting under load" is much less predictable than a Pinion.
Obviously I'm referring to technical riding, whether it's downhill, Enduro or whatever you call riding over roots and rocks. I couldn't care less about what people in Lycra wear. It seems noone here talks about Lycra riding until a gearbox comes into play.
It's easily fuelled by most bike companies trying to sell you a new color and f-all innovation or willingness to try something different, but almost every argument I read online seems to fall apart any time I, or any of my friends try a gearbox.
Question for the peanut gallery, inspired by this Nick Bentley pic from the other site- it seems like every Shimano team is running an Ochain on the old Saint M820/825 cranks, despite the fact that those cranks come from the factory with a very permanently installed 104 BCD spider. How do we think they're doing this?
Do you think Shimano corporate is modifying the cranks for the teams, or are all the teams doing a garage bodge job like this?
Shimano provided the cranks. I remember when Jackson mentioned he got them.
pit bits la thuile - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/pit-bits-2026-la-thuile-world-cup-d…
I think calling what that guy did a garage bodge job is insulting to both that user's ingenuity and craftsmanship and as well as garage bodgers everywhere, who would view that as far too sophisticated.
lol. Fair.
I guess what I meant was that it would be a bodge job in the eyes of Shimano, who would almost certainly deny warranty to any customer who did that to their cranks.
Thanks. I guess I should make time to watch some of the UCI Enduro races.
If you read through it he did a batch of these cranks specifically for a WC DH team that was sponsored by Shimano...so no need to worry about warranty. Shimano now provides the teams with Saint cranks able to direct mount the Ochain.
I am sure if we geek out back through old race photos and find the first team spotted with Ochain on Saints we'll know exactly what team he did this for.
edit - after posting I remembered the posters name and remembered an earlier project he did in the MTBR framebuilding forum. He build Nigel Page's kid a custom Nukeproof kids 20" wheel bike years ago. https://www.mtbr.com/threads/full-suspension-kids-20-wheeled-nukeproof-…
If you were looking for an O-chain compatible Shimano crank for DH, I've wondered before if you could just use XT 8130 (Superboost) cranks on 83mm shell bikes without the 4.5mm spindle spacers on both sides? How would a 73mm shell with 9mm of spindle spacers be functionally different than a 83mm shell with no spacers (other than the 1mm difference)?
No Lycra here.
All XC and downcountry all the time since I'm in the midwest of the US. Pedaling matters 100% of the time to me. It doesn't matter to you and that's cool. Most people on mountain bikes (not ebikes) do some amount of pedaling where they'd find themselves less happy if their experience pedaling were noticeable made worse.
Remember, Vital's forum is where the most enthusiastic of the enthusiasts hang out. The MOST obsessed enthusiasts who are often pushing themselves and their gear to greater and greater heights in the pursuit of mountain bike progression and achievement are the folks who post here. Think about all the people who drive cars. Think about all the people who drive cars capable of going fast. Think about all the people who drive cars that can go fast and also test those cars making small tweaks to try to eek out a little more performance. Think about all the people who drive cars and test them and then gather in groups to talk about their tests and their findings and like to debate others about the aerodynamics of different sorts of paint. That last group is the VitalMTB forum.
You might have a little Baader-Meinhof action happening.
Yeah that should be possible - I remember a thing years ago where people were running some oddball XT crankset (I think it was for touring bikes at the time) because it had a longer spindle and would slot straight in to a DH bike. It might have been for a narrower q-factor instead of the chainring mounting but either way it fitted on the wider BB no worries but removing the spacers
nah that's when Shimano Saint was released
That doesn't answer my question at all. Why do people push back about a few lost watts in something...yet there's all the hype in putting the same watts into some wee pulley in your driveline? I get that some people just like things the way they are, but this is a thread about innovation, not about pretty paint and faster socks.
Maybe I exaggerate when I say derailleur needs to die. What I hope for in this moped update is just that more people actually think about trying something new, rather than worry about 5mm on a chainstay.
I've just seen too many forums with interesting technical news degrade through $500 derailleur pulleys and annual paint jobs into talking about family fishing trips....
insert old man yells at cloud meme**
That’s an OG modification! Back when Iron Horse were selling trail bikes with 83 mm bottom brackets. You had to get the XT “big ring” cranks that were indeed for touring. They didn’t just go right on though… You had to take a hacksaw to the granny ring tabs for clearance. You also couldn’t use any spacers, and it helped if your BB was faced to 82 mm. 😉
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