I'm not sure if anyone here has actually set up T-Type yet, but its kind of bullshit to set up compared to a regular set up, especially compared to older AXS, which was excellent. Sure, you get used to it if you're doing it every day, but it requires enough App/random information access that you might not have out on the trail if something goes wrong to actually make it shift properly again. For example, we have it on a fleet of demo E-bikes and we have checked the install of the drivetrain multiple times to the instructions in this video: https://www.sram.com/en/learn/eagle-transmission-welcome-guide/installation-overview
However, people using the bikes then smack the derailleur somehow, causing it to shift out of place, even if everything is properly torqued. Then the whole system is game over. There's nothing to keep the derailleur in place other than a knurled plate between the frame and derailleur that will still move under proper torque against the frame and the derailleur no longer has proper B-tension. The people demoing these bikes are not experienced techs. Its just doesn't work any more because they put it in the back of their SUV to transport it and bumped it hard enough to make it go out of adjustment even if you've followed every step. Making it cheaper and more accessible I can only see causing more issues.
I've also had to drill out multiple axles because people who thought they knew what they were doing/had the experience needed to install their own group sets ended up having their axled seize in the derailleur bolt because everything can rotate together. So far, yes it shifts very well, and when its working, its excellent and I've used it on these demo bikes for months and had great personal experiences, but in a real world setting used by normal people, it's pretty unimpressive and down right an issue so far.
I'm not sure if anyone here has actually set up T-Type yet, but its kind of bullshit to set up compared to a regular set up...
I'm not sure if anyone here has actually set up T-Type yet, but its kind of bullshit to set up compared to a regular set up, especially compared to older AXS, which was excellent. Sure, you get used to it if you're doing it every day, but it requires enough App/random information access that you might not have out on the trail if something goes wrong to actually make it shift properly again. For example, we have it on a fleet of demo E-bikes and we have checked the install of the drivetrain multiple times to the instructions in this video: https://www.sram.com/en/learn/eagle-transmission-welcome-guide/installation-overview
However, people using the bikes then smack the derailleur somehow, causing it to shift out of place, even if everything is properly torqued. Then the whole system is game over. There's nothing to keep the derailleur in place other than a knurled plate between the frame and derailleur that will still move under proper torque against the frame and the derailleur no longer has proper B-tension. The people demoing these bikes are not experienced techs. Its just doesn't work any more because they put it in the back of their SUV to transport it and bumped it hard enough to make it go out of adjustment even if you've followed every step. Making it cheaper and more accessible I can only see causing more issues.
I've also had to drill out multiple axles because people who thought they knew what they were doing/had the experience needed to install their own group sets ended up having their axled seize in the derailleur bolt because everything can rotate together. So far, yes it shifts very well, and when its working, its excellent and I've used it on these demo bikes for months and had great personal experiences, but in a real world setting used by normal people, it's pretty unimpressive and down right an issue so far.
Anecdotes are not data and it sounds like I'm in the minority but I got mine in April of '23 and installed it and set it up myself. I've put 2,500 miles and almost 750k' of descending on it and and haven't touched it since then other than to check torque after the first few rides. I swapped the chain out for an XX chain at about 2k miles.
It's been flawless and I have beaten the ever-loving crap out of it, the skid plates on the mech are a little ragged-looking but that's just cosmetic.
(In case it's relevant I got an XX mech, X0 cassette and chain and swapped out the Transmission pod for the the Eagle pod because I hated it. I used nonT-Type cranks and chainring because I'm vain and think the T-Type cranks are ugly).
I'm not sure if anyone here has actually set up T-Type yet, but its kind of bullshit to set up compared to a regular set up...
I'm not sure if anyone here has actually set up T-Type yet, but its kind of bullshit to set up compared to a regular set up, especially compared to older AXS, which was excellent. Sure, you get used to it if you're doing it every day, but it requires enough App/random information access that you might not have out on the trail if something goes wrong to actually make it shift properly again. For example, we have it on a fleet of demo E-bikes and we have checked the install of the drivetrain multiple times to the instructions in this video: https://www.sram.com/en/learn/eagle-transmission-welcome-guide/installation-overview
However, people using the bikes then smack the derailleur somehow, causing it to shift out of place, even if everything is properly torqued. Then the whole system is game over. There's nothing to keep the derailleur in place other than a knurled plate between the frame and derailleur that will still move under proper torque against the frame and the derailleur no longer has proper B-tension. The people demoing these bikes are not experienced techs. Its just doesn't work any more because they put it in the back of their SUV to transport it and bumped it hard enough to make it go out of adjustment even if you've followed every step. Making it cheaper and more accessible I can only see causing more issues.
I've also had to drill out multiple axles because people who thought they knew what they were doing/had the experience needed to install their own group sets ended up having their axled seize in the derailleur bolt because everything can rotate together. So far, yes it shifts very well, and when its working, its excellent and I've used it on these demo bikes for months and had great personal experiences, but in a real world setting used by normal people, it's pretty unimpressive and down right an issue so far.
Anecdotes are not data and it sounds like I'm in the minority but I got mine in April of '23 and installed it and set it...
Anecdotes are not data and it sounds like I'm in the minority but I got mine in April of '23 and installed it and set it up myself. I've put 2,500 miles and almost 750k' of descending on it and and haven't touched it since then other than to check torque after the first few rides. I swapped the chain out for an XX chain at about 2k miles.
It's been flawless and I have beaten the ever-loving crap out of it, the skid plates on the mech are a little ragged-looking but that's just cosmetic.
(In case it's relevant I got an XX mech, X0 cassette and chain and swapped out the Transmission pod for the the Eagle pod because I hated it. I used nonT-Type cranks and chainring because I'm vain and think the T-Type cranks are ugly).
I think the "Has a proper bike rack and understands the basics of how things work crew" is unfortunately smaller than some bike companies hope or think it is when they're expanding a platform so quickly. I guess I should note, I live in an area that usually has more wallet than understanding so I may be in a minority area, but it hasn't been great so far unless the rider has a greater understanding of what they're using and how to take care of it. And you'd think that would be good for bike shops, but when you have a wave of E-bike and headset routing issues on new bikes piling up because companies haven't thought after service through, throwing another log on the fire just jams things up so you can't do regular service work. It feels like every day I have another 3-4 bike either new or out of the box that have developed issues with new and cool tech that take time away from actually doing jobs that make service departments money because the bike is a month old and is broken.
I really don't understand the wireless hate. It's no worse than cable mechs in my experience. If anything j like it a little more and find it shifts faster. Less cables look nicer. It's just the evolution of bikes, no reason to hate it.
How so precisely?The pod has possibly the worst ergonomics ever ( previous axs was nice )Weak clutchOverpricedOverweightThe main feature ( you can stand on it )...
How so precisely?
The pod has possibly the worst ergonomics ever ( previous axs was nice )
Weak clutch
Overpriced
Overweight
The main feature ( you can stand on it ) it’s completely useless as you never get side impacts but always front to back
So far almost everyone I know that own it, and I work in a bike shop, has had trouble with it, either too much chain slap and had to run a chain tensioner pulley like the old dh bikes, or deralieur just broke down randomly, no signal, deralieur dead.
While the warranty is great, still, it’s a lemon to me
Compared to my normal cable eagle with xt cassette
My combo is way cheaper and it’s lighter, it shifts under power, it’s way quicker, I basically never have to tune the cable tension or anything for months and months
All transmission above have been installed by a proper mechanic with all the seam mechanics tips for transmission.
1) Worst ergonomics ever? The pod is fine... literally a button for up and down and plenty adjustable. Took me ten mins to dial in and never thought about it again.
2) Transmission clutch is great, completely silent.. old AXS quite literally known for bad clutch issues...
3) Weight is fine, cranks are a little heavy but there's other crank options (which I use). Everything else is on par with XT (derailleur heavier, cassette lighter, balances out)
The pricing is frustrating which is understandably why it gets the hate. But saying the performance isn't best in class completely fried. It's the best drivetrain you can get right now.
If T-type sucked I would say so. I can give two sh*ts about defending SRAM (they f*cked me over plenty before..). But I gotta give credit where it's due. Wouldn't put anything else on a race bike if I had the choice/funds.
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy to let them get in on the niche end of the game. Big brands don’t have time to chase trends. They make big fancy bikes for people with teslas and rivianz. Dakine Fanny and pit vipers and discretionary income. A couple kids on the way that the big brands want to get into the Fam asap. At least half the people at the big brands don’t even ride. They come from tech and vacuum companies and have business degrees and aren’t driven by emotions regarding Cable Routing. And that’s fine. These bikes are a lot of shops bread and butter. The cable routing (or lack thereof) isn’t about you and the metal bike you wrench on yourself, it’s about a way bigger ecosystem than most of us can even catch a glimpse of…
You shouldn’t be complaining about the divide. Ultimately your metal bike with external routing will be psyched to have the trickle down that the pointy end of Bike Development will eventually pass on to all of us. Gotta grow the industry at all points on the spectrum to have a healthy one.
Ill admit I own and love the GX Transmission, it's been great for me, but it seems that SRAM is actively leaving performance on the table by not producing a cable version. Is there any technical reason they couldn't produce a mechanical one that is lighter and therefore performs even better? It would be cheaper and with all of the benefits aside from having to maintain the shifter cable adjustment and well, maybe you wouldn't be able to stand on it. Seems like that would have a pretty broad appeal.
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy...
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy to let them get in on the niche end of the game. Big brands don’t have time to chase trends. They make big fancy bikes for people with teslas and rivianz. Dakine Fanny and pit vipers and discretionary income. A couple kids on the way that the big brands want to get into the Fam asap. At least half the people at the big brands don’t even ride. They come from tech and vacuum companies and have business degrees and aren’t driven by emotions regarding Cable Routing. And that’s fine. These bikes are a lot of shops bread and butter. The cable routing (or lack thereof) isn’t about you and the metal bike you wrench on yourself, it’s about a way bigger ecosystem than most of us can even catch a glimpse of…
You shouldn’t be complaining about the divide. Ultimately your metal bike with external routing will be psyched to have the trickle down that the pointy end of Bike Development will eventually pass on to all of us. Gotta grow the industry at all points on the spectrum to have a healthy one.
.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of e bikes to pedal bikes I've been seeing lately, I just wonder how big the market even is for ~$10k pedal bikes anymore.
Local Bike Shop confirmed that a new Santa Cruz Hightower model is due at the end of the year, with only details being that its 7mm...
Local Bike Shop confirmed that a new Santa Cruz Hightower model is due at the end of the year, with only details being that its 7mm more travel in the rear and 10mm more in the front (seems like Megatower territory). Anyone else heard/seen any other news? Contemplating the current model as the travel seemed perfect for me 150/145.
I’ve read somewhere that Hightower and Bronson update will come before end of summer. The shock tunnel and bb area will be “pretty” different and something...
I’ve read somewhere that Hightower and Bronson update will come before end of summer. The shock tunnel and bb area will be “pretty” different and something more.
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
I'm stoked for actual innovation that's useful, but it seems like we're getting stuff getting pushed out because company's can only add 6% better (enter advantage here) for so long before they have to give into gimmicks that don't have a huge advantage over the older stuff but the tech changes so it must be better? I know they need new product to see more stuff, but is it actually better? Questionable, but it is more expensive and makes you need a new frame and 300$ chain.
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy...
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy to let them get in on the niche end of the game. Big brands don’t have time to chase trends. They make big fancy bikes for people with teslas and rivianz. Dakine Fanny and pit vipers and discretionary income. A couple kids on the way that the big brands want to get into the Fam asap. At least half the people at the big brands don’t even ride. They come from tech and vacuum companies and have business degrees and aren’t driven by emotions regarding Cable Routing. And that’s fine. These bikes are a lot of shops bread and butter. The cable routing (or lack thereof) isn’t about you and the metal bike you wrench on yourself, it’s about a way bigger ecosystem than most of us can even catch a glimpse of…
You shouldn’t be complaining about the divide. Ultimately your metal bike with external routing will be psyched to have the trickle down that the pointy end of Bike Development will eventually pass on to all of us. Gotta grow the industry at all points on the spectrum to have a healthy one.
.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of...
.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of e bikes to pedal bikes I've been seeing lately, I just wonder how big the market even is for ~$10k pedal bikes anymore.
Nothing prevents you from "standing" on a cable actuated derailleur. No clutch needed, it will just move out of the way. The cable pulls it inwards, but does not prevent it from moving inwards more. It's the electric drive in the axs variant that requires a clutch to prevent the cogs stripping when suffering an impact.
Why does everyone in the industry feel a need to make drastic new advancements every 6 months, spend tons of money on R&D which drives up...
Why does everyone in the industry feel a need to make drastic new advancements every 6 months, spend tons of money on R&D which drives up the cost on new products that we didn't really need in the first place so then they have to hopefully force the consumer into having to buy these new products. For example wireless only frames.
Just keep producing the same drivetrains that worked and consumers will by replacement cassettes, mechs and chains as needed the tooling is already paid for and the profit margins are higher the longer they are still available to sell replacment parts.
I'd argue it's more human nature, people want 'new' and new is wireless. Give Santa Cruz a reason to save 55c per frame for not having internal guides and they'll take it.
I think one of the biggest issues is that wireless only locks you into SRAM currently. It's crazy that they're releasing these before Shimano has a wireless drivetrain out.
Lets say the next version of SRAM wireless has a recall issue, or a plant burns down, or literally anything to disrupt a single supply chain. Congrats, you now have 0 bikes to sell.
I think wireless drivetrains are the future, and they'll become incredibly good eventually, but to abandon all legacy support already, well that's just crazy.
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO.
I think there is also a cost/time saving in assembly of the bike with a wireless drivetrain, from a production POV it's probably more repeatable and efficient to fit a SRAM transmission on the production line. In my experience manufacturing engineering departments tend to want to influence product development to suit their needs, often with detrimental effects for the customer in terms of product features.
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO.
No one is forcing you to buy a wireless only bike, so far there is one option and we know an aluminium one is coming as the lower spec version, that one is cable actuated, if SC do bring an option that’s wireless only then no one is going to force you to buy that either. New niche brands are popping up everywhere that are steel, cnc ally, and building a brand on simplicity and reliability , it makes sense that you’ll have the opposite end of the spectrum; carbon and wireless only.
This forum has really become as uncle cliffy said, ironic and in my opinion awfully negative lately.
I'd argue it's more human nature, people want 'new' and new is wireless. Give Santa Cruz a reason to save 55c per frame for not having...
I'd argue it's more human nature, people want 'new' and new is wireless. Give Santa Cruz a reason to save 55c per frame for not having internal guides and they'll take it.
I think one of the biggest issues is that wireless only locks you into SRAM currently. It's crazy that they're releasing these before Shimano has a wireless drivetrain out.
Lets say the next version of SRAM wireless has a recall issue, or a plant burns down, or literally anything to disrupt a single supply chain. Congrats, you now have 0 bikes to sell.
I think wireless drivetrains are the future, and they'll become incredibly good eventually, but to abandon all legacy support already, well that's just crazy.
"I think one of the biggest issues is that wireless only locks you into SRAM currently. It's crazy that they're releasing these before Shimano has a wireless drivetrain out. "
My personal theory is that Shimano told the bike brands that their wireless drivetrain would be out 6 months ago and it's been delayed. The bike manufacturers got tired of holding inventory back waiting on it and are releasing them now with SRAM only.
It seems pretty likely that Shimano will have 1x wireless coming later this year - they pretty much confirmed that at the GRX Di2 launch (where there was only 2x available). The last gen versions of GRX 1x were compatible with MTB cassettes, and the current limitation (I believe) is that Di2 is coordinated through the front derailleur, not the rear.
As for wireless only frames - do we know this is the case on all carbon frames, or possibly just the 'CC' models? If you look at the offerings from the big manufacturers, often the aluminum models are coming with low to mid tier drivetrains (GX/XT and below) and the carbon models are mostly with high end options (XT/GX and above). If SRAM only makes 'new' high end wireless and Shimano has an option (or replacement? soon) for wireless XT/XTR, then they aren't selling carbon models with a need for a cable port. That's not to say they are right or wrong for doing so, it's just how they spec their high end bikes.
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
Just looked at the current and previous year's Hightowers.
Every tier is Sram only. the lowest build has Sram NX, then there is a cable GX, then multiple AXS build tiers. They've entirely given up on Alu full suss bikes. (Did PON tell them that GT fills that market?)
There's now a wireless NX equivilent. Its not hard to see the benefit to eliminating the routing that only benefits the current bottom models. ESpecially on an SC which is fully guided in the front triangle, its not just a case of drilling two holes.
As others have said, surely shimano wireless is coming soon.
Just like with the specialized, the cable dropper I guess is remaining. Not yet enough or long enough options in the dropper world I guess. From owning a Santa Cruz, thats the one that could do with being eliminated, the routing around the shock tunnel is tight and stiff which is annoying when trying to insert a dropper with one hand, and pull the cable out of the head tube with the other.
It will be interesting which levels Shimano offer Di2 at. Traditionally they launch new groupsets at the highest tier first before releasing cheaper versions. I wonder if there will be an Slx Di2 as they do 105 version for the road. But I thought I'd heard the slx/xt designations were being dropped.
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy...
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy to let them get in on the niche end of the game. Big brands don’t have time to chase trends. They make big fancy bikes for people with teslas and rivianz. Dakine Fanny and pit vipers and discretionary income. A couple kids on the way that the big brands want to get into the Fam asap. At least half the people at the big brands don’t even ride. They come from tech and vacuum companies and have business degrees and aren’t driven by emotions regarding Cable Routing. And that’s fine. These bikes are a lot of shops bread and butter. The cable routing (or lack thereof) isn’t about you and the metal bike you wrench on yourself, it’s about a way bigger ecosystem than most of us can even catch a glimpse of…
You shouldn’t be complaining about the divide. Ultimately your metal bike with external routing will be psyched to have the trickle down that the pointy end of Bike Development will eventually pass on to all of us. Gotta grow the industry at all points on the spectrum to have a healthy one.
.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of...
.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of e bikes to pedal bikes I've been seeing lately, I just wonder how big the market even is for ~$10k pedal bikes anymore.
If there are no cable ports frame/bike prices should be cheaper right......RIGHT?
fml
I'm not sure if anyone here has actually set up T-Type yet, but its kind of bullshit to set up compared to a regular set up, especially compared to older AXS, which was excellent. Sure, you get used to it if you're doing it every day, but it requires enough App/random information access that you might not have out on the trail if something goes wrong to actually make it shift properly again. For example, we have it on a fleet of demo E-bikes and we have checked the install of the drivetrain multiple times to the instructions in this video: https://www.sram.com/en/learn/eagle-transmission-welcome-guide/installation-overview
However, people using the bikes then smack the derailleur somehow, causing it to shift out of place, even if everything is properly torqued. Then the whole system is game over. There's nothing to keep the derailleur in place other than a knurled plate between the frame and derailleur that will still move under proper torque against the frame and the derailleur no longer has proper B-tension. The people demoing these bikes are not experienced techs. Its just doesn't work any more because they put it in the back of their SUV to transport it and bumped it hard enough to make it go out of adjustment even if you've followed every step. Making it cheaper and more accessible I can only see causing more issues.
I've also had to drill out multiple axles because people who thought they knew what they were doing/had the experience needed to install their own group sets ended up having their axled seize in the derailleur bolt because everything can rotate together. So far, yes it shifts very well, and when its working, its excellent and I've used it on these demo bikes for months and had great personal experiences, but in a real world setting used by normal people, it's pretty unimpressive and down right an issue so far.
Anecdotes are not data and it sounds like I'm in the minority but I got mine in April of '23 and installed it and set it up myself. I've put 2,500 miles and almost 750k' of descending on it and and haven't touched it since then other than to check torque after the first few rides. I swapped the chain out for an XX chain at about 2k miles.
It's been flawless and I have beaten the ever-loving crap out of it, the skid plates on the mech are a little ragged-looking but that's just cosmetic.
(In case it's relevant I got an XX mech, X0 cassette and chain and swapped out the Transmission pod for the the Eagle pod because I hated it. I used nonT-Type cranks and chainring because I'm vain and think the T-Type cranks are ugly).
I think the "Has a proper bike rack and understands the basics of how things work crew" is unfortunately smaller than some bike companies hope or think it is when they're expanding a platform so quickly. I guess I should note, I live in an area that usually has more wallet than understanding so I may be in a minority area, but it hasn't been great so far unless the rider has a greater understanding of what they're using and how to take care of it. And you'd think that would be good for bike shops, but when you have a wave of E-bike and headset routing issues on new bikes piling up because companies haven't thought after service through, throwing another log on the fire just jams things up so you can't do regular service work. It feels like every day I have another 3-4 bike either new or out of the box that have developed issues with new and cool tech that take time away from actually doing jobs that make service departments money because the bike is a month old and is broken.
I really don't understand the wireless hate. It's no worse than cable mechs in my experience. If anything j like it a little more and find it shifts faster. Less cables look nicer. It's just the evolution of bikes, no reason to hate it.
1) Worst ergonomics ever? The pod is fine... literally a button for up and down and plenty adjustable. Took me ten mins to dial in and never thought about it again.
2) Transmission clutch is great, completely silent.. old AXS quite literally known for bad clutch issues...
3) Weight is fine, cranks are a little heavy but there's other crank options (which I use). Everything else is on par with XT (derailleur heavier, cassette lighter, balances out)
The pricing is frustrating which is understandably why it gets the hate. But saying the performance isn't best in class completely fried. It's the best drivetrain you can get right now.
If T-type sucked I would say so. I can give two sh*ts about defending SRAM (they f*cked me over plenty before..). But I gotta give credit where it's due. Wouldn't put anything else on a race bike if I had the choice/funds.
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy to let them get in on the niche end of the game. Big brands don’t have time to chase trends. They make big fancy bikes for people with teslas and rivianz. Dakine Fanny and pit vipers and discretionary income. A couple kids on the way that the big brands want to get into the Fam asap. At least half the people at the big brands don’t even ride. They come from tech and vacuum companies and have business degrees and aren’t driven by emotions regarding Cable Routing. And that’s fine. These bikes are a lot of shops bread and butter. The cable routing (or lack thereof) isn’t about you and the metal bike you wrench on yourself, it’s about a way bigger ecosystem than most of us can even catch a glimpse of…
You shouldn’t be complaining about the divide. Ultimately your metal bike with external routing will be psyched to have the trickle down that the pointy end of Bike Development will eventually pass on to all of us. Gotta grow the industry at all points on the spectrum to have a healthy one.
Ill admit I own and love the GX Transmission, it's been great for me, but it seems that SRAM is actively leaving performance on the table by not producing a cable version. Is there any technical reason they couldn't produce a mechanical one that is lighter and therefore performs even better? It would be cheaper and with all of the benefits aside from having to maintain the shifter cable adjustment and well, maybe you wouldn't be able to stand on it. Seems like that would have a pretty broad appeal.
.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of e bikes to pedal bikes I've been seeing lately, I just wonder how big the market even is for ~$10k pedal bikes anymore.
17th September release date
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it.
These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!
I'm stoked for actual innovation that's useful, but it seems like we're getting stuff getting pushed out because company's can only add 6% better (enter advantage here) for so long before they have to give into gimmicks that don't have a huge advantage over the older stuff but the tech changes so it must be better? I know they need new product to see more stuff, but is it actually better? Questionable, but it is more expensive and makes you need a new frame and 300$ chain.
Nothing prevents you from "standing" on a cable actuated derailleur. No clutch needed, it will just move out of the way. The cable pulls it inwards, but does not prevent it from moving inwards more. It's the electric drive in the axs variant that requires a clutch to prevent the cogs stripping when suffering an impact.
I'd argue it's more human nature, people want 'new' and new is wireless. Give Santa Cruz a reason to save 55c per frame for not having internal guides and they'll take it.
I think one of the biggest issues is that wireless only locks you into SRAM currently. It's crazy that they're releasing these before Shimano has a wireless drivetrain out.
Lets say the next version of SRAM wireless has a recall issue, or a plant burns down, or literally anything to disrupt a single supply chain. Congrats, you now have 0 bikes to sell.
I think wireless drivetrains are the future, and they'll become incredibly good eventually, but to abandon all legacy support already, well that's just crazy.
I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO.
amen to that!
I think there is also a cost/time saving in assembly of the bike with a wireless drivetrain, from a production POV it's probably more repeatable and efficient to fit a SRAM transmission on the production line. In my experience manufacturing engineering departments tend to want to influence product development to suit their needs, often with detrimental effects for the customer in terms of product features.
No one is forcing you to buy a wireless only bike, so far there is one option and we know an aluminium one is coming as the lower spec version, that one is cable actuated, if SC do bring an option that’s wireless only then no one is going to force you to buy that either.
New niche brands are popping up everywhere that are steel, cnc ally, and building a brand on simplicity and reliability , it makes sense that you’ll have the opposite end of the spectrum; carbon and wireless only.
This forum has really become as uncle cliffy said, ironic and in my opinion awfully negative lately.
"I think one of the biggest issues is that wireless only locks you into SRAM currently. It's crazy that they're releasing these before Shimano has a wireless drivetrain out. "
My personal theory is that Shimano told the bike brands that their wireless drivetrain would be out 6 months ago and it's been delayed. The bike manufacturers got tired of holding inventory back waiting on it and are releasing them now with SRAM only.
It’s so nice to see so many opinions being shared. Snore.
Here’s a frame drawing I saw today.
It seems pretty likely that Shimano will have 1x wireless coming later this year - they pretty much confirmed that at the GRX Di2 launch (where there was only 2x available). The last gen versions of GRX 1x were compatible with MTB cassettes, and the current limitation (I believe) is that Di2 is coordinated through the front derailleur, not the rear.
As for wireless only frames - do we know this is the case on all carbon frames, or possibly just the 'CC' models? If you look at the offerings from the big manufacturers, often the aluminum models are coming with low to mid tier drivetrains (GX/XT and below) and the carbon models are mostly with high end options (XT/GX and above). If SRAM only makes 'new' high end wireless and Shimano has an option (or replacement? soon) for wireless XT/XTR, then they aren't selling carbon models with a need for a cable port. That's not to say they are right or wrong for doing so, it's just how they spec their high end bikes.
So does that also apply to headset cable routing?
Just looked at the current and previous year's Hightowers.
Every tier is Sram only. the lowest build has Sram NX, then there is a cable GX, then multiple AXS build tiers. They've entirely given up on Alu full suss bikes. (Did PON tell them that GT fills that market?)
There's now a wireless NX equivilent. Its not hard to see the benefit to eliminating the routing that only benefits the current bottom models. ESpecially on an SC which is fully guided in the front triangle, its not just a case of drilling two holes.
As others have said, surely shimano wireless is coming soon.
Just like with the specialized, the cable dropper I guess is remaining. Not yet enough or long enough options in the dropper world I guess. From owning a Santa Cruz, thats the one that could do with being eliminated, the routing around the shock tunnel is tight and stiff which is annoying when trying to insert a dropper with one hand, and pull the cable out of the head tube with the other.
It will be interesting which levels Shimano offer Di2 at. Traditionally they launch new groupsets at the highest tier first before releasing cheaper versions.
I wonder if there will be an Slx Di2 as they do 105 version for the road. But I thought I'd heard the slx/xt designations were being dropped.
Isn't it slx being dropped, but xt, staying? So xtr, xt, deore?
Exactly. They will all be 13-speed, wireless, with just Deore offering a cable, 12-speed version.
New Knolly Delirium : https://knollybikes.com/en-ca/products/delirium_g6
Only 13? Be bold Shimano, only support super boost and offer 16 gears!
They have both and more
More info here: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/knolly-delirium-back.