MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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DylanJM
Posts
9
Joined
7/2/2024
Location
Frederiksberg DK
7/18/2024 12:30pm
sspomer wrote:
foes not too dissimilar to saracen when they ran the floater? (i have no idea who did what first and am not trying to say one...

foes not too dissimilar to saracen when they ran the floater? (i have no idea who did what first and am not trying to say one is copying another)

the more i look at it though, there are plenty of differences 😐

original_Matt_Walkers_Saracen_Myst_15.jpg

Saracen Floating Brake

Pretty sure Foes used floating brakes 20+ years ago. It’s nothing new. 

3
Simcik
Posts
382
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Loma, CO US
7/18/2024 1:38pm

My 2004 Santa Cruz V10 had a floating arm as well. My Transition Blindside had one around 2008. These existed to overcome a variety of brake/suspension induced characteristics. 

There was even a company that made them for a variety of bikes. Brake Therapy. 

What was old is new again: tall bars, pulley wheels, floating brake arms...

6
7/18/2024 2:10pm
Primoz wrote:
What Santa Cruz and Yeti (and Scott) do is use different materials where a more expensive material is stronger and less of it can be used...

What Santa Cruz and Yeti (and Scott) do is use different materials where a more expensive material is stronger and less of it can be used. Thus lower weight. What that means for stiffness I can't say, but supposedly they should all be as strong (and stiff?) just with some heavier and cheaper.

But I can say with 100 percent certainty that different layups can and do affect stiffness 🙂

tarekfahmy wrote:

Pivot does different carbon lay up for each size

Basically all brands do this, pivot just makes a big deal about it. If a small and XL used the exact same layup, one would ride like crap. 

4
Nobble
Posts
115
Joined
9/24/2010
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/18/2024 2:25pm
Primoz wrote:
What Santa Cruz and Yeti (and Scott) do is use different materials where a more expensive material is stronger and less of it can be used...

What Santa Cruz and Yeti (and Scott) do is use different materials where a more expensive material is stronger and less of it can be used. Thus lower weight. What that means for stiffness I can't say, but supposedly they should all be as strong (and stiff?) just with some heavier and cheaper.

But I can say with 100 percent certainty that different layups can and do affect stiffness 🙂

tarekfahmy wrote:

Pivot does different carbon lay up for each size

Basically all brands do this, pivot just makes a big deal about it. If a small and XL used the exact same layup, one would ride...

Basically all brands do this, pivot just makes a big deal about it. If a small and XL used the exact same layup, one would ride like crap. 

It kinda smells like marketing fluff to me.

You literally have to use a different layup for each size because the carbon fabric cut pattern for a small isn’t enough material to make an XL frame.

10
7/18/2024 2:28pm
sspomer wrote:
foes not too dissimilar to saracen when they ran the floater? (i have no idea who did what first and am not trying to say one...

foes not too dissimilar to saracen when they ran the floater? (i have no idea who did what first and am not trying to say one is copying another)

the more i look at it though, there are plenty of differences 😐

original_Matt_Walkers_Saracen_Myst_15.jpg

Saracen Floating Brake

DylanJM wrote:

Pretty sure Foes used floating brakes 20+ years ago. It’s nothing new. 

Foes was nearly 30 years ago! The yeti DH-8 lawwill bikes had a mini brake arm, Cannondale too. Interestingly Sunn, Vprocesse and Honda bikes didn't, despite being designs you would think suited it, and being very advanced bikes for their time. (they may have tried it but it certainly wasn't their standard choice)

 

I think they are a cool idea - combined with chain idlers you can theoretically decouple the drivetrain, braking and wheelpath characteristics and adjust them all independently. Obviously this is a lot of extra complication but they can be a powerful tuning tool!

foes mofo bike
3
sspomer
Posts
5000
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
7/18/2024 2:32pm

(for clarification, i was aware foes was using floating brakes arms back in the early 2000's as i was trackside at the races...just thought the new foes and saracen suspension layouts and floaters looked similar-ish)

5
Aksel_Lfft
Posts
109
Joined
4/21/2016
Location
Plaisance-du-Touch FR
7/18/2024 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 7/18/2024 3:11pm
Primoz wrote:
What Santa Cruz and Yeti (and Scott) do is use different materials where a more expensive material is stronger and less of it can be used...

What Santa Cruz and Yeti (and Scott) do is use different materials where a more expensive material is stronger and less of it can be used. Thus lower weight. What that means for stiffness I can't say, but supposedly they should all be as strong (and stiff?) just with some heavier and cheaper.

But I can say with 100 percent certainty that different layups can and do affect stiffness 🙂

For sure and it's commonly used in aeronautics to tune the stiffness/compliance of composite assemblies (to withstand different loads cases for example). If it's less expensive than using a complete new mold, I'd say it's not negligible (more material, more curing time, maybe more NDT...). It's to be noted that normally you can use a mold up to a certain range of plies (outside this range, you might need to have a new mold)

I've heard today from a knowledgeable person the confirmation that the new DH from Scott will indeed have the shock hidden in the frame (I've understood that it was currently being tested by some factory riders in Andorra). I've not heard about the suspension layout though

7/18/2024 5:36pm
sspomer wrote:
(for clarification, i was aware foes was using floating brakes arms back in the early 2000's as i was trackside at the races...just thought the new...

(for clarification, i was aware foes was using floating brakes arms back in the early 2000's as i was trackside at the races...just thought the new foes and saracen suspension layouts and floaters looked similar-ish)

Sorry Spomer yeah I know thats not new for you....I actually had an old Dirt mag close at hand I flicked through to remember some old bikes and thought you could easily written one of the articles in there!

1
FullSend
Posts
346
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
DE
7/19/2024 4:07am Edited Date/Time 7/19/2024 6:33am

So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like, "available to purchase in a couple of weeks"-soon.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt or two. It certainly doesn't sound very plausible.

2
sprungmass
Posts
124
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
7/19/2024 7:04am
FullSend wrote:
So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like...

So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like, "available to purchase in a couple of weeks"-soon.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt or two. It certainly doesn't sound very plausible.

That would be very unlike Specialized but i'll be damned if it is true. I love my Enduro and this would be a great upgrade so I can run the SRAM derailleurs with stronger clutch. It shouldn't be too hard to make because the seat stays are one-size for all bikes and it is a single piece. They just need to make the hanger side bore wider and reinforce it a bit more.

specialized-specialized-my20-enduro-carbon-seatstay 49578623
2
Snfoilhat
Posts
84
Joined
5/19/2012
Location
Berkeley, CA US
7/19/2024 8:28am

Designed by a focus group of PB commenters? (that’s neither criticism nor praise)

Also this isn’t a rumor so much as an advertisement.

IMG 3908
2
1
nskerb
Posts
263
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
7/19/2024 9:06am

God damn that’s an ugly paint job

2
2
Jotegr
Posts
161
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Nakusp, BC CA
7/19/2024 9:30am

In a sense I half expected the 140 status to be the alloy stumpjumper - even though Mr. Hunter's bike is clearly very different than what we started seeing of the status a little while ago. Strange, it seems to me those bikes will have significant overlap aside from some geometry tweaks and the suspension tech features in the new stumpy. I wonder what the opening price stumpy will be? Traditionally they have had a pretty affordable base alloy spec.

1
TimBud
Posts
414
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/19/2024 9:40am Edited Date/Time 7/19/2024 3:13pm

The ally stumpy is going to have to be good to beat that.

2
NicoZesty96
Posts
403
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
portogruaro, VE IT
7/19/2024 12:21pm
sprungmass wrote:
That would be very unlike Specialized but i'll be damned if it is true. I love my Enduro and this would be a great upgrade so...

That would be very unlike Specialized but i'll be damned if it is true. I love my Enduro and this would be a great upgrade so I can run the SRAM derailleurs with stronger clutch. It shouldn't be too hard to make because the seat stays are one-size for all bikes and it is a single piece. They just need to make the hanger side bore wider and reinforce it a bit more.

specialized-specialized-my20-enduro-carbon-seatstay 49578623

"SRAM derailleurs with stronger clutch"i hope you don't mean transmission because it's the other way around

2
4
7/19/2024 1:11pm
FullSend wrote:
So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like...

So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like, "available to purchase in a couple of weeks"-soon.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt or two. It certainly doesn't sound very plausible.

I’ve heard this from 2 different sources as well. 

3
TEAMROBOT
Posts
790
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
7/19/2024 1:18pm
nskerb wrote:

God damn that’s an ugly paint job

Why this came to mind I don't know:

Why this came to mind I don't know:

image 6

Needs more skulls and cobwebs

» 2007 Specialized Demo 7 Tattoo Frame - Sick Lines - mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your ...

20
B Rabbit
Posts
23
Joined
1/13/2024
Location
Sydney, NSW AU
7/19/2024 1:28pm
FullSend wrote:
So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like...

So, I just heard a rumor that apparently there will be a UDH-compatibility update to the Specialized Enduro after all. And pretty soon at that. Like, "available to purchase in a couple of weeks"-soon.

Obviously take that with a grain of salt or two. It certainly doesn't sound very plausible.

JerseyMojo wrote:

I’ve heard this from 2 different sources as well. 

I heard the same. 

monarchmason
Posts
185
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
7/19/2024 2:25pm

I kind of hope, somehow, they are able to add a mullet flip chip or something when they redo the drop outs for the Enduro. That would be neat. But Im expecting them to just remove the holes for cables because F us right 😈

9
WarrenB
Posts
6
Joined
10/5/2020
Location
Saint Paul, MN US
7/19/2024 2:42pm

Really? A minor update for their most outdated bike? Bizarre

3
2
7/19/2024 3:19pm
WarrenB wrote:

Really? A minor update for their most outdated bike? Bizarre

Not if they have a pile of front triangles laying around 

7
B Rabbit
Posts
23
Joined
1/13/2024
Location
Sydney, NSW AU
7/19/2024 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 7/19/2024 3:26pm

Yeah, odd  they just didn’t do a Stumpy Evo-esq update last year. Adjustable head cups etc. Just modernise the geo a tad, keep the suspension layout the same and do a full redesign after the proto demo becomes production. Maybe they didn’t want to invest in the moulds due to the covid slump and thought they’d skip a generation 🤷 

3
peecee
Posts
390
Joined
5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
7/19/2024 5:22pm
Foes was nearly 30 years ago! The yeti DH-8 lawwill bikes had a mini brake arm, Cannondale too. Interestingly Sunn, Vprocesse and Honda bikes didn't, despite...

Foes was nearly 30 years ago! The yeti DH-8 lawwill bikes had a mini brake arm, Cannondale too. Interestingly Sunn, Vprocesse and Honda bikes didn't, despite being designs you would think suited it, and being very advanced bikes for their time. (they may have tried it but it certainly wasn't their standard choice)

 

I think they are a cool idea - combined with chain idlers you can theoretically decouple the drivetrain, braking and wheelpath characteristics and adjust them all independently. Obviously this is a lot of extra complication but they can be a powerful tuning tool!

foes mofo bike

The VProcess also used one at one stage I saw an image of it the other day I’ll upload when I find it, orange also used a brake arm, even the Tomac 204 Lawwill tested it on some of the team bikes. 

3
seanfisseli
Posts
95
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/19/2024 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 7/19/2024 5:29pm
WarrenB wrote:

Really? A minor update for their most outdated bike? Bizarre

Rumor I heard was that there were major production issues that set the Enduro back a whole year…

5
TayRob
Posts
123
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
CA US
7/19/2024 6:25pm
WarrenB wrote:

Really? A minor update for their most outdated bike? Bizarre

Rumor I heard was that there were major production issues that set the Enduro back a whole year…

This jives with what I have heard around and through the grapevine, too. I guess the bikes were damn near ready to go, but something happened when scaling them up for full production. Last I heard there was not even a hint of an ETA for release. 

3

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