MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Mwood
Posts
166
Joined
8/19/2009
Location
Bay Area, CA US
6/18/2024 12:10pm

Aluminum bikes are not disposable, they are recyclable. Carbon bikes are disposable and not recyclable. 

I heard Big S kept their aluminum bike team when some of them carbon folks got laid off. The return of aluminum is here! 

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thresh
Posts
110
Joined
10/18/2023
Location
San Jose, CA US
6/18/2024 12:45pm
iceman2058 wrote:
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...

Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable. 

Thankfully someone else beat me to this.  I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel"...

Thankfully someone else beat me to this. 

I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel" it, and that aluminum can be made to work just fine depending on a myriad of factors. 

But instead, I just wanted an excuse to post an OG flex stay alloy bike (that worked) 

 

Huh, and I though Cannondale Scalpels were first to the party, but alas - indeed it is Gary Fisher.  Mind blown!

TimBud
Posts
530
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
6/18/2024 12:59pm

Where does the myth come from that carbon is not recyclable? Just because very few do it does not make it impossible.

As soon as there is a consumer demand for products made from it, “they” will find a way to make the processes more efficient and cost effective.

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markb2392
Posts
18
Joined
12/16/2022
Location
Guildford GB
6/18/2024 1:27pm
TimBud wrote:
Where does the myth come from that carbon is not recyclable? Just because very few do it does not make it impossible. As soon as there...

Where does the myth come from that carbon is not recyclable? Just because very few do it does not make it impossible.

As soon as there is a consumer demand for products made from it, “they” will find a way to make the processes more efficient and cost effective.

Can of worms opened!

Yes it's recyclable, but not into its original form. Can use it in chopped strand stuff. Resin has to be burnt. Very expensive. No-one really does it.

Ally can be, but uses shit loads of energy to extract in raw form.

Swings and roundabouts. No-one ever quantifies the environmental damage. Chose your material and be a dick about it Laughing

If you really cared you'd hang onto your current bike until it brakes and not buy another one!

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JVP
Posts
208
Joined
4/20/2016
Location
Seattle, WA US
6/18/2024 1:27pm
Mwood wrote:
Aluminum bikes are not disposable, they are recyclable. Carbon bikes are disposable and not recyclable.  I heard Big S kept their aluminum bike team when some...

Aluminum bikes are not disposable, they are recyclable. Carbon bikes are disposable and not recyclable. 

I heard Big S kept their aluminum bike team when some of them carbon folks got laid off. The return of aluminum is here! 

Sure, but carbon is repairable. I'm one of those that wouldn't buy an aluminum flex stay bike, or really any aluminum bike that's on the lighter side of things. I likely have anchoring bias from breaking so many aluminum bikes over the years.

The reality is that the vast majority of MTBs won't get ridden often or hard, so these are fine bikes for the average consumer.

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Losifer
Posts
407
Joined
9/12/2017
Location
Sandia Park, NM US
6/18/2024 1:28pm
Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of...

Is it just me, or does an aluminum flex stay seem sketchy? I’m sure it’s designed to last fine for the typical 3-5 year ownership of a new frame, but it’s certainly not a bike I’d buy second hand given aluminum’s poor fatigue strength. It would be cool if you could swap the carbon rear triangle from an epic to extend the life of the bike instead of just having a cheap, disposable frame. As is, it seems like the soda can of MTB frames tho - light, cheap, and disposable. 

Thankfully someone else beat me to this.  I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel"...

Thankfully someone else beat me to this. 

I could add a lot more about how flex is inherent to any design, even if you don't "feel" it, and that aluminum can be made to work just fine depending on a myriad of factors. 

But instead, I just wanted an excuse to post an OG flex stay alloy bike (that worked) 

 

thresh wrote:

Huh, and I though Cannondale Scalpels were first to the party, but alas - indeed it is Gary Fisher.  Mind blown!

1998-99 Ibis would like a word...

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boozed
Posts
650
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
6/18/2024 3:02pm
markb2392 wrote:
Can of worms opened! Yes it's recyclable, but not into its original form. Can use it in chopped strand stuff. Resin has to be burnt. Very...

Can of worms opened!

Yes it's recyclable, but not into its original form. Can use it in chopped strand stuff. Resin has to be burnt. Very expensive. No-one really does it.

Ally can be, but uses shit loads of energy to extract in raw form.

Swings and roundabouts. No-one ever quantifies the environmental damage. Chose your material and be a dick about it Laughing

If you really cared you'd hang onto your current bike until it brakes and not buy another one!

Fortunately the geometry formula for each "class" or "genre" of MTB has settled down to the point where holding on to a frame until it breaks is viable*.  My 2018 trail bike is still pretty close to "modern" in every dimension other than the seat tube angle, which is not something I think you could say about 99% of 2012 frames at the time**.  Even the parts are more or less the same as those being specified on brand new bikes.

* Of course it was always viable – just ride! – but the new hotness isn't significantly different any more.

** Amusingly my 2021 enduro bike is more "behind" modern enduro bikes than the 2018 trail bike is behind modern trail bikes, but it only takes an angle set to make up the difference.

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brash
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942
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
6/18/2024 4:00pm

I've still got my early 90's apollo everest in the garage (With manitou Ti SX's Smile )

that elevated CS was so soft you had 20mm of axle travel lol. I rode the shit out of that bike, it was so compliant in the rear end and is still uncracked. I'll restore it one day.

They looked amazing

 

Mine looking a little rough lol, next to it is an almost new Kona Cindercone. I have a problem

 

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earleb
Posts
351
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
6/18/2024 5:15pm

Steel wins. Recyclable and easily repair, with a lower initial carbon footprint.

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austin-NC
Posts
104
Joined
12/22/2022
Location
Lincolnton , NC US
6/19/2024 5:11am

Carbon will never be a realistic "recyclable" material, aluminum and steel are much more recyclable. Most aluminum and steel is close to 75% recycled because its easy and cheap.  

And no we wont figure out how to make it reasonable to recycle carbon, if we haven't done that with plastic its not going to happen with carbon. 

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nskerb
Posts
337
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
6/19/2024 6:21am

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

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6/19/2024 6:30am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I think bike co ops and good bike shops will if you write off the frame and bring it in for inspection or replacement/donation. 

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6/19/2024 7:30am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2024 7:32am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

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Finkill
Posts
225
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
6/19/2024 7:46am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to be separated into different metals and recycled. Scrap metal is worth money.

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6/19/2024 7:52am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2024 7:53am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Where are you disposing old frames?
 

In Australia our local tip has metals recycling and you just throw it in the correct metal pile, aluminium recycling rates around the world are between 30%-75%. Because it requires only 10% of the energy to re-smelt aluminium its one of the few metals worth recycling, as energy is the primary cost of it. 

I'd be surprised in America if you couldn't send it somewhere, as the industry globally recycles aluminium packaging, as its financially valuable to do so (unlike carbon or many many other materials).

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gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales GB
6/19/2024 8:33am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2024 8:38am

I used to seperate out all aluminium and steel waste into 2 seperate bins and when they were full take them to the recycling/scrap dealer in town.
I used to get good money (a long time ago) but kept doing it when prices dropped to zero.

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austin-NC
Posts
104
Joined
12/22/2022
Location
Lincolnton , NC US
6/19/2024 8:43am

Our local trash convenience sites have metal scrap dumpsters couldn't be any easier to get rid of aluminum/steel. 

If you had a big enough pile of aluminum frames you could take to an actual scrapyard and get a few bucks. 

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1
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
6/19/2024 8:47am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Thats on you then,

There has always been, and always be, scrap yards that will happily take your steel or alu bikes, strip them down, and recycle them.  Just the same as cars, appliances, construction materials, etc.

Realistically, bikes getting sold, and turned over to multiple owners is the best possible scenario.  We often forget the hierarchy Reduce, Re-use, Recycle

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26aintdead
Posts
22
Joined
10/19/2022
Location
Rossland, BC CA
6/19/2024 8:50am
Onawalk wrote:
Thats on you then, There has always been, and always be, scrap yards that will happily take your steel or alu bikes, strip them down, and...

Thats on you then,

There has always been, and always be, scrap yards that will happily take your steel or alu bikes, strip them down, and recycle them.  Just the same as cars, appliances, construction materials, etc.

Realistically, bikes getting sold, and turned over to multiple owners is the best possible scenario.  We often forget the hierarchy Reduce, Re-use, Recycle

It is actually Refuse, Reduce, Re-use, Recycle

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3
6/19/2024 8:55am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

This is the correct answer. Even the cracked Kona frames I had I sold to someone who "was going to fix it" but more than likely just strip it for parts. Has anyone in this thread ever actually disposed of a bike frame before?

Even my carbon road bike that got hit by a car (while I was on it) I have in the shed as a keepsake, despite being a crumpled ball of carbon and plastic. 

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krabo83
Posts
716
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
6/19/2024 9:00am

please keep it tech rumors only and your frame material religion out of here, thx!

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Losifer
Posts
407
Joined
9/12/2017
Location
Sandia Park, NM US
6/19/2024 9:04am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Counterpoint: I worked as a mechanic for 26 years, and every single shop I worked for recycled aluminum and steel frames, rims, spokes, and assorted components.

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PellyNH
Posts
17
Joined
4/12/2021
Location
Austin, TX US
6/19/2024 9:06am

Joy - this is now a thread about recycling. FFS. 

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MauiMax
Posts
121
Joined
5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI US
6/19/2024 10:21am

Just to bring it back to tech rumors. I saw knolly post a story about a new bike coming on the 26th. Looks like it might be a mullet with longer travel. Any guesses what? New Warden?

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6/19/2024 10:21am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2024 10:23am
nskerb wrote:
Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands...

Aluminum is recyclable but do AL bikes ever actually get recycled? I think every bike bike ever ends up getting resold & ultimately in the hands of a random tweaker then ends it’s life either in a landfill or at the bottom of a body of water lol. 
 

Has anybody ever actually taken a bike to a scrap yard?

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Finkill wrote:
Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to...

Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to be separated into different metals and recycled. Scrap metal is worth money.

In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it is definitely not the norm in my area. 

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4
isack
Posts
15
Joined
7/15/2021
Location
Bozeman, MT US
6/19/2024 10:25am
I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Finkill wrote:
Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to...

Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to be separated into different metals and recycled. Scrap metal is worth money.

In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it...

In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it is definitely not the norm in my area. 

Every bike shop I've worked at in the US has had an aluminum and a steel bin to take to the srapyard.

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veefour
Posts
851
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
6/19/2024 10:33am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2024 10:37am
In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it...

In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it is definitely not the norm in my area. 

Maybe it's different in the US, here in the UK money from the scrapyard is a perk, provided you have a little room for storage there are no additional costs apart from time.

I've personally taken at least 3 frames to the scrapyard, plus various components. They are for sure being recycled, those companies wouldn't pay me money for that metal in order to just throw it away.

We also have people in vans driving around most towns looking for scrap metal in order to weigh it in and get paid for it. 

 

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dolface
Posts
1663
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
6/19/2024 10:36am

C'mon folks, let's get this back on track:

New R7 XC fork from Manitou coming on July 4th? Kazimir looks to have it on his Chisel build on PB and the Rockrider/Ford team have (likely) been running it for while. Anyone know anything more? Hoping it'll go up to 130mm...

Bicycle Wheel Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Bicycle wheel

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sethimus
Posts
875
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
6/19/2024 11:05am
I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never...

I've seen zero evidence of aluminum frames being recycled. I ran bike shops for 10 years and never saw a recycling program. I still have never seen a hint of a recycling program, not at local shops and not at manufacturers.  There is no link on manufacturer websites to "recycle your aluminum frame here" .

Aluminum is recyclable, but with no public easily accessable way to do it, the rate of it actually happening is likely close to zero. 

 

Finkill wrote:
Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to...

Pretty much every bike shop I've seen in the UK will have metal waste bins, separate from the general waste. This is then taken off to be separated into different metals and recycled. Scrap metal is worth money.

In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it...

In the US I've never seen that. It could be happening depending on the individual shop being willing to take on the additional costs, but it is definitely not the norm in my area. 

really? americans not giving a shit about recycling? color me shocked!

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Losifer
Posts
407
Joined
9/12/2017
Location
Sandia Park, NM US
6/19/2024 11:10am
MauiMax wrote:
Just to bring it back to tech rumors. I saw knolly post a story about a new bike coming on the 26th. Looks like it might...

Just to bring it back to tech rumors. I saw knolly post a story about a new bike coming on the 26th. Looks like it might be a mullet with longer travel. Any guesses what? New Warden?

New Warden for sure. I wouldn't be surprised t see a little more change from the previous version than we've seen on the other gen. 6 frames. 

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