MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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2supple
Posts
99
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1/23/2022
Location
Denver, CO US
2/4/2024 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2024 8:52pm
JVP wrote:
At this point we're likely going to have to accept Super Boost. All new SRAM Transmission chainlines are 55mm, which are suboptimal with boost spacing if...

At this point we're likely going to have to accept Super Boost. All new SRAM Transmission chainlines are 55mm, which are suboptimal with boost spacing if you climb steep hills.

My crystal ball says in 6 years Boost 148 will be the weird orphan. Luckily adapter end caps should work for Boost to Super B****. Not sure if they'd need a re-dish. (edit, just saw above that redish req'd).

As a heel rubber, Super B**** annoys me, but not enough to impact a purchase.

Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I can think of is WAO. I don't see Trek, Yeti, SC, RM, Commencal or Specialized switching to stupid boost and they are the majority. Those brands know most enthusiasts regard stupid boost as a con so I doubt they would switch unless something changes. 

 

3
2
2/5/2024 1:01am

I've heard that the new sram mineral oil DH brakes will be announced on the 18th of Feb and will be available on the 20th of Feb

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FullSend
Posts
182
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
DE
2/5/2024 1:58am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2024 3:28am
JVP wrote:
At this point we're likely going to have to accept Super Boost. All new SRAM Transmission chainlines are 55mm, which are suboptimal with boost spacing if...

At this point we're likely going to have to accept Super Boost. All new SRAM Transmission chainlines are 55mm, which are suboptimal with boost spacing if you climb steep hills.

My crystal ball says in 6 years Boost 148 will be the weird orphan. Luckily adapter end caps should work for Boost to Super B****. Not sure if they'd need a re-dish. (edit, just saw above that redish req'd).

As a heel rubber, Super B**** annoys me, but not enough to impact a purchase.

2supple wrote:
Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I...

Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I can think of is WAO. I don't see Trek, Yeti, SC, RM, Commencal or Specialized switching to stupid boost and they are the majority. Those brands know most enthusiasts regard stupid boost as a con so I doubt they would switch unless something changes. 

 

You're correct. 157 Superboost is dying. Mondraker and Pivot, arguably the only big mainstream brands in favor of SuperBoost, have both switched back to using Boost 148 on their latest models. All the while Boost 148 is even showing up on some DH bikes.

For the forseeable future, we're stuck with Boost 148. Not because it's particularly good or makes sense, but because it's the de-facto standard. Brands won't change to anything new for the fear of customers being put off by the idea of yet another rear hub standard change. Even if a potential new standard was a genuine improvement.

My guy at Specialized tells me that weary customers are the reason why we won't see widespread adoption of  any innovation that majorly disrupts the status quo anytime soon - except for e-bike stuff.

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2/5/2024 2:24am
samdaman1 wrote:
Not sure if anyone else spotted it, but it appears that Vali Höll has got a set of Sram’s new Maven levers (now in silver, and...

p6pb26139710.jpg?VersionId=KjM7AJdJYCGS.KzOzcRkR4PiUhC5Zi

Not sure if anyone else spotted it, but it appears that Vali Höll has got a set of Sram’s new Maven levers (now in silver, and widely believed to be a mineral oil brake), with the red prototype callipers, which, as far as I can remember, have only previously been tested with Sram’s current levers which use DOT fluid.

Not sure if this means anything but it definitely piqued my interest. It’s also worth pointing out that Sram has had 6 months to use the ‘Maven’ trademark which started on the 5th of September last year, which will be up on the 5th March, so they might actually be releasing them quite soon? 

I actually saw a pair of Mavens in the flesh a week or so ago on the gondy at Thredbo while I was in the line. Went past me too quick to snap them but the bike was a raw alloy DH frame that I’ve never seen before, with full compliment sram/rs (new boxxer, Vivid, xo dh etc). The text looked slightly different to the exposed pic from earlier but was very clearly laser etched maven. And it was just the perimeter of each letter rather than a fill which stood out to me. Looked quite finished and production ready. 

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TannerVal
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128
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Location
Hampton, NH US
2/5/2024 6:11am
Big Bird wrote:

That's also an awfully long seat post for a triple clamp bike.

acambo wrote:
My guess is that its just a Titan with dorado's and his idler chainring. To run his short stems you need to size up and so...

My guess is that its just a Titan with dorado's and his idler chainring. To run his short stems you need to size up and so it would be an xl frame with a 490mm seat tube. This forces Rulezman to run a 125mm dropper post, which created the funniest excuse of "125mm dropper to save energy from squatting a smaller distance".

Dude is definitely a little kooky

8
jonkranked
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Location
Norristown, PA US
2/5/2024 6:28am
veefour wrote:

I think The ShortestCharles is right, if you enhance the photo the amount of chain wrap indicates an idler. 

companies are catching on, photo enhance doesn't reveal much in this case. 

1
veefour
Posts
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Location
Cinderford GB
2/5/2024 7:00am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2024 7:01am
jonkranked wrote:

companies are catching on, photo enhance doesn't reveal much in this case. 

I dunno, for me it reveals enough that I can see teeth on the top of the chainring that would be hidden by the chain if it didn't have an idler. 

ratchet_catch
Posts
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Joined
10/23/2022
Location
Albuquerque, NM US
2/5/2024 8:30am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2024 8:32am
jonkranked wrote:

companies are catching on, photo enhance doesn't reveal much in this case. 

veefour wrote:
I dunno, for me it reveals enough that I can see teeth on the top of the chainring that would be hidden by the chain if...

I dunno, for me it reveals enough that I can see teeth on the top of the chainring that would be hidden by the chain if it didn't have an idler. 

I’m pretty sure it’s whatever is scribbled out in the picture for Aston’s competition this month. Looks gold:

 

https://astonmtb.com/product/rulezman-surprise/

 

but then again, that instagram post has a vertical shock, so maybe not. Could just be two things coming out on the same day by the same person.

1
jonkranked
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Location
Norristown, PA US
2/5/2024 9:43am
jonkranked wrote:

companies are catching on, photo enhance doesn't reveal much in this case. 

veefour wrote:
I dunno, for me it reveals enough that I can see teeth on the top of the chainring that would be hidden by the chain if...

I dunno, for me it reveals enough that I can see teeth on the top of the chainring that would be hidden by the chain if it didn't have an idler. 

that and a dinner plate cassette. it's not as revealing as it has been, that's for sure. 

2/5/2024 10:17am

The double-crown enduro from Rulezman indeed looks like it has the additional idler Rulezman came out with - he even stated it’s only compatible with the Titan! As for the 29.02. reveal by Aston - it’s obviously a Legend which even doesn’t have the MX-treatment by Rulezman. Probably another custom build of the Legend. If Keith from Banshee is reading: please dude, the Legend needs a new iteration already, as is the Darkside! 

WalrusRider
Posts
4
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9/9/2020
Location
Renton, WA US
2/5/2024 10:33am

Which bike company is doing a press camp in Portugal? I’m seeing a few media people all in Portugal at the moment.

3
JVP
Posts
207
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Location
Seattle, WA US
2/5/2024 12:33pm
JVP wrote:
At this point we're likely going to have to accept Super Boost. All new SRAM Transmission chainlines are 55mm, which are suboptimal with boost spacing if...

At this point we're likely going to have to accept Super Boost. All new SRAM Transmission chainlines are 55mm, which are suboptimal with boost spacing if you climb steep hills.

My crystal ball says in 6 years Boost 148 will be the weird orphan. Luckily adapter end caps should work for Boost to Super B****. Not sure if they'd need a re-dish. (edit, just saw above that redish req'd).

As a heel rubber, Super B**** annoys me, but not enough to impact a purchase.

2supple wrote:
Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I...

Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I can think of is WAO. I don't see Trek, Yeti, SC, RM, Commencal or Specialized switching to stupid boost and they are the majority. Those brands know most enthusiasts regard stupid boost as a con so I doubt they would switch unless something changes. 

 

FullSend wrote:
You're correct. 157 Superboost is dying. Mondraker and Pivot, arguably the only big mainstream brands in favor of SuperBoost, have both switched back to using Boost...

You're correct. 157 Superboost is dying. Mondraker and Pivot, arguably the only big mainstream brands in favor of SuperBoost, have both switched back to using Boost 148 on their latest models. All the while Boost 148 is even showing up on some DH bikes.

For the forseeable future, we're stuck with Boost 148. Not because it's particularly good or makes sense, but because it's the de-facto standard. Brands won't change to anything new for the fear of customers being put off by the idea of yet another rear hub standard change. Even if a potential new standard was a genuine improvement.

My guy at Specialized tells me that weary customers are the reason why we won't see widespread adoption of  any innovation that majorly disrupts the status quo anytime soon - except for e-bike stuff.

I hope you're right. But again, 55mm chainlines aren't ideal on 148, and very few consumers even know what a chainline is or how to optimize it. Brand managers are now incentivized to go to 157 in order to have better OEM SRAM Transmission shifting on regular bikes. E-bikes are mostly fine on 55 and boost 148 since they'll spend less time in the pie plate... except when they do use the 52t, ugh. 

I'm sure SRAM went 55 as a standard to reduce SKU count for chainrings and a focus on e-bikes. I prefer boost and 52mm chainlines even on Transmission, but that requires non-SRAM chainrings. Not a problem if you're a wrench dork like us, but a problem for OEMs and a riddle even most above average riders.

9
1
2/5/2024 5:09pm
2supple wrote:
Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I...

Really? Superboost definitely plateaued over the past few years but I would venture to guess it is possibly declining at this point. Only recent addition I can think of is WAO. I don't see Trek, Yeti, SC, RM, Commencal or Specialized switching to stupid boost and they are the majority. Those brands know most enthusiasts regard stupid boost as a con so I doubt they would switch unless something changes. 

 

FullSend wrote:
You're correct. 157 Superboost is dying. Mondraker and Pivot, arguably the only big mainstream brands in favor of SuperBoost, have both switched back to using Boost...

You're correct. 157 Superboost is dying. Mondraker and Pivot, arguably the only big mainstream brands in favor of SuperBoost, have both switched back to using Boost 148 on their latest models. All the while Boost 148 is even showing up on some DH bikes.

For the forseeable future, we're stuck with Boost 148. Not because it's particularly good or makes sense, but because it's the de-facto standard. Brands won't change to anything new for the fear of customers being put off by the idea of yet another rear hub standard change. Even if a potential new standard was a genuine improvement.

My guy at Specialized tells me that weary customers are the reason why we won't see widespread adoption of  any innovation that majorly disrupts the status quo anytime soon - except for e-bike stuff.

JVP wrote:
I hope you're right. But again, 55mm chainlines aren't ideal on 148, and very few consumers even know what a chainline is or how to optimize...

I hope you're right. But again, 55mm chainlines aren't ideal on 148, and very few consumers even know what a chainline is or how to optimize it. Brand managers are now incentivized to go to 157 in order to have better OEM SRAM Transmission shifting on regular bikes. E-bikes are mostly fine on 55 and boost 148 since they'll spend less time in the pie plate... except when they do use the 52t, ugh. 

I'm sure SRAM went 55 as a standard to reduce SKU count for chainrings and a focus on e-bikes. I prefer boost and 52mm chainlines even on Transmission, but that requires non-SRAM chainrings. Not a problem if you're a wrench dork like us, but a problem for OEMs and a riddle even most above average riders.

I agree that for mortals a 52mm chain line on boost is superior to 55mm. 

Because of the cassette moving outwards 2.5mm with transmission, a 55mm chain line is roughly equivalent to a 52mm chain line on a non transmission drivetrain on a boost hub. 

 

5
Fred_Pop
Posts
214
Joined
11/26/2017
Location
FR
2/5/2024 11:21pm
Kapolczer wrote:
Just posted to Rulezman’s story. The Titan isn’t rated for a dual crown, could be the new model? Looks like the same vertical shock layout as...

Just posted to Rulezman’s story. The Titan isn’t rated for a dual crown, could be the new model? Looks like the same vertical shock layout as most of their frames. Could also just be a Titan with a dual crown… Either way, we will find out soon. IMG 7372 0

Big Bird wrote:

That's also an awfully long seat post for a triple clamp bike.

Why an awfully long seat post just for a triple clamp bike? With 240mm droppers there's no need for seatposts longer the 450mm.

Fred_Pop
Posts
214
Joined
11/26/2017
Location
FR
2/5/2024 11:25pm
Big Bird wrote:

That's also an awfully long seat post for a triple clamp bike.

acambo wrote:
My guess is that its just a Titan with dorado's and his idler chainring. To run his short stems you need to size up and so...

My guess is that its just a Titan with dorado's and his idler chainring. To run his short stems you need to size up and so it would be an xl frame with a 490mm seat tube. This forces Rulezman to run a 125mm dropper post, which created the funniest excuse of "125mm dropper to save energy from squatting a smaller distance".

TannerVal wrote:

Dude is definitely a little kooky

By kooky you mean visionary? Wink

9
sethimus
Posts
870
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9/20/2014
Location
CH
2/6/2024 12:57am
acambo wrote:
My guess is that its just a Titan with dorado's and his idler chainring. To run his short stems you need to size up and so...

My guess is that its just a Titan with dorado's and his idler chainring. To run his short stems you need to size up and so it would be an xl frame with a 490mm seat tube. This forces Rulezman to run a 125mm dropper post, which created the funniest excuse of "125mm dropper to save energy from squatting a smaller distance".

TannerVal wrote:

Dude is definitely a little kooky

Fred_Pop wrote:
By kooky you mean visionary? 

By kooky you mean visionary? Wink

have you talked to the guy? especially, have you asked what exactly he does in his rrt treatment? also his the best or nothing claim while hyping tiny kenda tires…

8
2/6/2024 8:14am

Still super boost. Doesn't bother me, but it'll bother others.

 

The fact that, special edition pink aside, it's almost the same colors, baffles me... For the consumer that doesn't live on Internet forums like I do, going to be hard to spot the differences that make a new one worth the spend vs. last years NOS or a nice used one. I feel bad for their dealers. 

6
2/6/2024 9:58am

Wayyyy back in 2013 my Specialized Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Ample tire clearance

29 inch rear wheel

front-derailleur support

142 (technically 142+) rear hub

There is no performance justification for 148 or 157 to exist. 

Now that 148 is the defacto standard for everything from XC to DH, I will never own a bike that is 157 since it makes it that much harder to find the appropriate hub. I don't see 157 growing in marketshare. 

9
5
Simcik
Posts
426
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Location
Loma, CO US
2/6/2024 10:08am

Quite boring, aint it?

Not much innovation at all

Bikes are really freaking good these days. It is not going to be a revelation each time a brand launches or updates a bike. 

The tagline Vital put to it was: "Subtle but significant changes keep the all-mountain ripper alive and well." Meaning it is an update, not a whole new bike or platform. Were you hoping for 200mm travel, 90 degree STA, 45 degree HA, and 23 pounds?

For the last decade it seems that every bike is lower, longer, and slacker. That only works to a point. Bikes have settled into pretty great categories. At this point the average trail bike is more capable than DH bikes used to be. 

15
1
monarchmason
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283
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Location
Nevada City, CA US
2/6/2024 10:20am

Quite boring, aint it?

Not much innovation at all

Simcik wrote:
Bikes are really freaking good these days. It is not going to be a revelation each time a brand launches or updates a bike.  The tagline...

Bikes are really freaking good these days. It is not going to be a revelation each time a brand launches or updates a bike. 

The tagline Vital put to it was: "Subtle but significant changes keep the all-mountain ripper alive and well." Meaning it is an update, not a whole new bike or platform. Were you hoping for 200mm travel, 90 degree STA, 45 degree HA, and 23 pounds?

For the last decade it seems that every bike is lower, longer, and slacker. That only works to a point. Bikes have settled into pretty great categories. At this point the average trail bike is more capable than DH bikes used to be. 

While I do agree with you, I do agree with IceIceBaby more. Only from the standpoint of comparing this bike to the rest of the market. If people want to buy this new gen frame, then good for them. But it kind of blows my mind that Pivot decided to stay so conservative with its changes, especially in comparison to the rest of the market. It just looks meh.

11
ERGue
Posts
61
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
2/6/2024 10:45am
TimBud wrote:
Ah Trunnion: forever the scapegoat for poor frame alignment and QC 

Ah Trunnion: forever the scapegoat for poor frame alignment and QC Sideways

Yea definitely not the worst as it allows for a longer stroke shock in a smaller package but even with perfect alignment, the triangle pattern of the eyelets transmits significantly more frame/linkage flex into shock verses a standard eyelet. Shocks really shouldn’t be a structural element in a perfect design imo. 

12
kperras
Posts
154
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
2/6/2024 10:52am

Not only that, but in the event of the shock hardware coming loose and being ridden, a standard eyelet shock is much less likely to suffer damage over a trunnion shock. 

9
Suns_PSD
Posts
356
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
2/6/2024 11:11am

Quite boring, aint it?

Not much innovation at all

Simcik wrote:
Bikes are really freaking good these days. It is not going to be a revelation each time a brand launches or updates a bike.  The tagline...

Bikes are really freaking good these days. It is not going to be a revelation each time a brand launches or updates a bike. 

The tagline Vital put to it was: "Subtle but significant changes keep the all-mountain ripper alive and well." Meaning it is an update, not a whole new bike or platform. Were you hoping for 200mm travel, 90 degree STA, 45 degree HA, and 23 pounds?

For the last decade it seems that every bike is lower, longer, and slacker. That only works to a point. Bikes have settled into pretty great categories. At this point the average trail bike is more capable than DH bikes used to be. 

They sure could use built in dropper posts however.

 

That's a worthwhile upgrade who's time has arrived.

2
4
2/6/2024 11:12am
Wayyyy back in 2013 my Specialized Enduro 29er had:  430mm chainstays Ample tire clearance 29 inch rear wheel front-derailleur support 142 (technically 142+) rear hub There...

Wayyyy back in 2013 my Specialized Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Ample tire clearance

29 inch rear wheel

front-derailleur support

142 (technically 142+) rear hub

There is no performance justification for 148 or 157 to exist. 

Now that 148 is the defacto standard for everything from XC to DH, I will never own a bike that is 157 since it makes it that much harder to find the appropriate hub. I don't see 157 growing in marketshare. 

I remember saying, almost word for word : "I will never own a bike that has 29" wheels. I don't see 29" growing in marketshare anyway".

 

Today I've got some 29" wheeled bikes (and like them) and it's coming really difficult to find cheap and good 27,5" wheels.

 

Same for Boost.

 

And the exact opposite for Shimano Rapid Rise (yes, I'm beginning to get old).

 

So we'll see for SuperBoost. Not to mention 29ers came. Then it went. Then it came to stay.

2
3
2/6/2024 11:54am
Wayyyy back in 2013 my Specialized Enduro 29er had:  430mm chainstays Ample tire clearance 29 inch rear wheel front-derailleur support 142 (technically 142+) rear hub There...

Wayyyy back in 2013 my Specialized Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Ample tire clearance

29 inch rear wheel

front-derailleur support

142 (technically 142+) rear hub

There is no performance justification for 148 or 157 to exist. 

Now that 148 is the defacto standard for everything from XC to DH, I will never own a bike that is 157 since it makes it that much harder to find the appropriate hub. I don't see 157 growing in marketshare. 

I remember saying, almost word for word : "I will never own a bike that has 29" wheels. I don't see 29" growing in marketshare anyway"...

I remember saying, almost word for word : "I will never own a bike that has 29" wheels. I don't see 29" growing in marketshare anyway".

 

Today I've got some 29" wheeled bikes (and like them) and it's coming really difficult to find cheap and good 27,5" wheels.

 

Same for Boost.

 

And the exact opposite for Shimano Rapid Rise (yes, I'm beginning to get old).

 

So we'll see for SuperBoost. Not to mention 29ers came. Then it went. Then it came to stay.

There is a measureable performance difference (not all positive, not all negative) when you change the diameter of a wheel. In the context of lightweight, human powered bicycles with a 29 inch wheel, changin the hub standard from 142 to 148 to 157 will not create a perceptible difference in ride characteristics. 

Maybe a wider standard makes manufacturing easier. Maybe trunion shocks are a bad idea because the cost of a near-perfect linkage alignment creates bikes that are too expensive. These are not performance considerations, like a 26 vs 29 wheel size. 

5
Karabuka
Posts
432
Joined
12/1/2011
Location
SI
2/7/2024 12:02am

I dont really care much about ebs but since its tech news, in the latest vlog Brendog said they are filming a video for the release of new scott ebike which is coming out on 22nd of February. From a friend working in lbs which sells Scotts I've heard it will be apparently called Voltage

2
fartsack
Posts
137
Joined
10/13/2021
Location
咸興市 KP
2/7/2024 12:29am
Karabuka wrote:
I dont really care much about ebs but since its tech news, in the latest vlog Brendog said they are filming a video for the release...

I dont really care much about ebs but since its tech news, in the latest vlog Brendog said they are filming a video for the release of new scott ebike which is coming out on 22nd of February. From a friend working in lbs which sells Scotts I've heard it will be apparently called Voltage

it's pretty much a ransom with internal batterys and additional batterypack somewhere 18kg.

other than the "purist reason" to not get any help from a motor, there s no reason to have a ransom over the new voltage. 

1
4
Evil96
Posts
802
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
2/7/2024 12:52am
Karabuka wrote:
I dont really care much about ebs but since its tech news, in the latest vlog Brendog said they are filming a video for the release...

I dont really care much about ebs but since its tech news, in the latest vlog Brendog said they are filming a video for the release of new scott ebike which is coming out on 22nd of February. From a friend working in lbs which sells Scotts I've heard it will be apparently called Voltage

it's gonna be a piece of junk 100%

5
13
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