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A lot of car guys are smarter than the bike builders I have met
Something something about car guys making bikes. Did we already forget this eye sore?
Some more info about the new Sunn Radical enduro bike here on Vojomag :
https://www.vojomag.com/news/nouveaute-sunn-le-retour-du-radical/
Only in french but there's still a few data to share.
I wonder what an Atherton steel hardtail would cost...
Lugged. 12 sizes. Rigorously tested. Perfect bottom bracket. Perfect headset. Peace of mind knowing that it's all made as well as possible. Lifetime warranty. Long term support. A little caché from the name.
$1500 is completely within the realm of possibilities there.
What is your hourly wage at your job? Should people who have a job they like be paid well enough to survive and retire?
Let's pretend this isn't a fully custom bike but a bike that'll be built boutique style but repeatedly.
6 hours to put together the frame if you're dialed and well-equipped. 10 hours if you're not.
200 hours designing it. 200 hours revising it. 200 hours testing it. 200 hours sourcing materials. 100 hours admin.
If there were no other factors involved and you were paying yourself $50/hour you'd have $45,500.
You're selling 31 frames at $1500 before you get there. Let's add the extra 180 hours for the additional 30 frames just to pay yourself. Moving target to match the hourly wage to the number of units manufactured and sold. So now we actually have to sell more like 37 frames to hit that $50/hour when you factor in manufacturing time to hit that $50/hour. And that's considering every single cent of that $1500 frame purchase price goes directly into your pocket.
But that's not how that actually all shakes out. We haven't yet counted:
Paint.
Cost of materials.
Cost of equipment.
Cost of location.
Insurance.
Any permitting.
Any additional certification/safety testing required by local governance.
Accounting.
Lawyers to look over your contracts and make sure you're not stepping on someone else's trademarks.
Taxes.
...and probably other shit I'm forgetting about (we're ignoring marketing and graphic design because your builds are so perfect they sell themselves on word of mouth alone and there's a line of people waiting around the block every day just hoping to get their name on a list).
...and that assumes all of your customers pick up the frame from your shop so you don't have to spend time or money shipping anything.
...and that's with no number attached to opportunity cost for all the time the spent learning to do it as well as is necessary to make a great bike.
Add on an extra 4 years of acquired knowledge to be able to translate a custom frame design into a great-riding bike.
It makes sense to me why it would be pretty expensive to be able make something super fuckin' sick!
Unless they're a dentist who happens to already be a very-high-level welder with all the required gear. Then for them it's just for funsies and they can just charge what their hourly is...which is closer to that $125 an hour...probably takes 'em 12 hours per frame...
You are listing sale prices of those other bikes. That is not what those frames are worth to the builders. But it does potentially reflect what the frames are worth to customers.
Is that loss of pedal clearance 'worst case scenario' where the pedal is the thickest?
I do have a set on order, but the shortest cranks I could get were only 5mm shorter than what I currently run and pedal clearance is a never-ending issue where I ride.
It seems like bikes would ideally be optimized around your pedal design by having oddly high BB heights (aka Pole).
Thanks!
I heard Trek owes Giant and Shimano "hundreds of millions."
now i see why they ask a grand more for an xt kit vs gx t type in NZ, incredible
Hm. Has me thinking. Now this is some mouth breathing type of tin foil but I wonder if Trek is trying to do steel manufacturing to not be so indebted with Giant?
All for it. Now if other companies could move to steel Id be happy because the weight savings between carbon and steel compared to value is pretty shit if you ask me. May as well just go to a greener material.
Dunne just posted this on his story, new Summum getting closer to release
I’m hearing a new version of the Switchgrade is out with new features and a lower price…
https://www.aenomalyconstructs.com/
The stuff I got told from our Trek rep was They doubled down during covid and orderd sh1t loads as at the time they were one of the only brands who took the risk and kept orders in of which they decided to up production.
They've now been caught out and why they had major issues with the gen 4 rail production, being no alloys made.(this ruled out giant and Shimano as trek use Quest for alot of their carbon)
However the soon to be released gen 5 is coming very very soon available in both carbon & alloy.
As the mention for NZ and Deals. There is some seriously discounted bikes there at the moment, I was just there for 2 weeks for business but will be returning in a few days for 5 months. however they had Bold bikes on special for over 60% off. 14k bikes for less than 5.5k.
Giant bikes just wont sell because people Absolutely hate Giant NZ and how hard they are to deal with.
Did anyone even mention pedal clearance in the posts you quoted?
But yes, drop pedals could increase BB height which would also improve kinematics or at least bring 29ers closer to what we had on 26" bikes.
Seeing as the big Ali E got their hands on the last one, it was certainly time to release an updated version. I know its seemingly inevitable but it probably drives the little guys to keep making products in some capacity.
Interesting to hear about what Trek reps are telling people these days. On my end of things I head Trek bullied the ever loving shit out of suppliers to put them at the front of the line at the expense of many smaller manufacturer's orders. But the Trek rep certainly put better than that! I don't think they're unique or we'd have a lot of brands who didn't over order and therefore weren't in financial difficulties, and that simply does not appear to be the case.
Nobody posted a screen shot of the Forbidden e-bike top tube teaser shot Owen posted? I didn't screen shot it to zoom in and see what drive unit dashboard was in the top tube.
That thing has the same rocker link as my 2016 Ghost SLAMR POS build.
Looked like a fazua logo on the screen 👀
Do you mean that drop pedals being more prevalent would allow bikes to be designed with a higher bb? And what kinematics are you meaning? Like the arc radius when cornering? How quickly the bike can lean over?
More rearward axle path for one
More cowbell or something I dont know
If you made two near identical bikes with identical anti-squat, but one had a 26" and the other had a 29" rear wheel, the 26" version will have a more rearward axle path and lower pedal kickback due to the bb (and therefore the main pivot/virtual pivot) being higher up with respect to the axle. It will also be more neutral under braking.
I'll be honest, I was a little embarassed that @LePigPen and I had some silly comments, which turned into more silliness about steel vs, carbon, vs blah blah blah.......Until I read your jem about what would frongs carry in their pockets if they had em.......Absolute gold
Thank You so much.
friggin frogs with pockets!
Just to confirm what has been said, yes, rearward axle path. It would be kinda like having an idler within your chainring to raise the chain by ~10 mm.
Oh please not smother FAZUA
Any rumours which ‘core’ brands are jumping on the new DJI engine?
Forbidden eDruid & eDreadnought with DJI motor, so two questions answered 😁
Can confirm 👍
And supposedly cable-actuated Transmission coming at Sea Otter…
How reliable is that source ? Website seems very sketchy and its location is in Belgium.
The website also mentions a new Forbidden Reya XC non high pivot bike.
The e-forbiddens were expected. As for the xc/dc bike, am genuinely curious... Especially as they mention it doesn't use a high-pivot... Flex pivot like 90% of xc/dc bikes?