Maybe a Transition, alu version of the upcoming Sentinel update? It looks like it's got the big chonky 56/56 head tube, and all their bikes use trunnion mount vertical shocks like that.
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of...
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.
Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of frames which the derailleur attaches to. Usually, derailleurs aren't that expensive these days but just in case, it's meant to bend instead of allowing the derailleur to break. Because our frame is made of steel, we can usually just bend it back for free! How nice!
Since we moved on to alloy/carbon, we had to make the hanger its own item. We went with aluminum alloy so it's stiff and light, but if you snag up on a rock or cause your bike to go tumbling down the side of a mountain, which happens from time to time, hopefully this twenty to forty dollar piece of metal breaks or bends instead of your derailleur, the price of which is rapidly inflating. Too bad there's a million hangers and none of them work with each other, but hey, that's the cost of providing consumers with a variety of frame designs and materials and varying price points!
OK, so we're trying to simplify things by getting vast swathes of the industry to move to a universal hanger. Great, right? But since we fucking hate you, we're going to make a bunch of them out of shittily moulded plastic riddled with manufacturing defects in our initial runs, thus ensuring that your brand new Trek (for which you waited a year and paid MSRP) is locked out of proper shifting for six to eight months, or whenever the supply chain woes end. Whichever is later!
Actually, forget the whole hanger thing. Now that we got most brands to standardize the mounting interface, we'll skip the hanger and make the derailleur mount directly to the frame. This was expensive to develop, but don't worry, we spent some of that R&D budget ensuring that we integrated both the function of a derailleur and the function of a hanger together: Not only will this thing smoothly and accurately shift under load, we purposely made parts of it kind of weak so it functions as a disposable hanger too! Best of all, instead of replacing that little piece of inexpensive aluminum, you now get to replace a very expensive little piece of aluminum that performed the same job! At least it's less than your $5,499.99 S-Works frame though, right?
BUT WAIT! What if I told you that you could replace those weaker parts of the transmission system with dramatically stronger aftermarket solutions? They'll take those crappy OEM bits and replace them with a colourful piece of CNC glory, and all for the low price of only somewhat more expensive than the OEM replacement! Best of all, those impact forces we were talking about? We figured out a way transfer them directly into your seat stay!
Very well written.Another thing I can't help to wrap my head around are the weights we're strapping to the unsprung side of our rear ends:Shimano RD-M980...
Very well written.
Another thing I can't help to wrap my head around are the weights we're strapping to the unsprung side of our rear ends:
Shimano RD-M980 (2011) 175g Sram XX (2011) 180g Shimano RD-M9120 (machanical) 241g Sram Transmission XX (incl. Battery) 465g
Not a total apples to apples comparison, but looking at this I can't help but feel this isn't the pinnacle of drivertain design.
So, you're really concerned about ~0.5lbs on bikes that average around 37lbs (assuming enduro bikes)? I'm struggling to come to terms with that mattering much. Heck, I'm struggling to come to terms with how much that would matter on my XC bike that weights 24lbs. I understand that it is at a specific spot but real world usage doesn't seem to indicate relevance so I'm not sure that it would be any different in theory. I simply don't believe this is a real factor for 99.9999999% of people on bikes. I'm sure we can find someone that can actually tell the difference in controlled testing but I believe they're an extreme outlier if the exist at all.
Maybe a Transition, alu version of the upcoming Sentinel update? It looks like it's got the big chonky 56/56 head tube, and all their bikes use...
Maybe a Transition, alu version of the upcoming Sentinel update? It looks like it's got the big chonky 56/56 head tube, and all their bikes use trunnion mount vertical shocks like that.
The TR11, Smuggler, and Spur are the only non-trunnion models. The Spire, Scout, Sentinel, Relay, Repeater (PT and EP8), and Patrol all have trunnion mounted shocks.
Maybe a Transition, alu version of the upcoming Sentinel update? It looks like it's got the big chonky 56/56 head tube, and all their bikes use...
Maybe a Transition, alu version of the upcoming Sentinel update? It looks like it's got the big chonky 56/56 head tube, and all their bikes use trunnion mount vertical shocks like that.
Can anyone explain the marketing strategy of Pivot letting Enduro-Mtb feature/review the bike and not showing it anywhere else,
including their website ??
according to the test in enduro-mtb launch will be in october. why they‘re allowed to post a review a month in advance i‘ve no clue, maybe because it‘s not widely available cause you have to use their app (which is free though)? 😅
none the less, that new suspension design really seems to rip according to their test. looking forward to reading more opinions/reviews.
they even tried plenty, but blind enough $$$$$ to say it's no biggie, which again $$$$$ it's hard not to say it's garbage when you're working on it, looking at it or whatever, perhaps they couldn't $ee properly
Live valve with an external climb switch is interesting.
(also DH sizing with a climb switch...)
I think the external climb switch is actually used to set the preload amount for the live valve lockout. I’m interested to see if these require a bar mounted switch unlike FA. Seems like most EDR bikes have had one. Seems complicated.
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of...
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.
Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of frames which the derailleur attaches to. Usually, derailleurs aren't that expensive these days but just in case, it's meant to bend instead of allowing the derailleur to break. Because our frame is made of steel, we can usually just bend it back for free! How nice!
Since we moved on to alloy/carbon, we had to make the hanger its own item. We went with aluminum alloy so it's stiff and light, but if you snag up on a rock or cause your bike to go tumbling down the side of a mountain, which happens from time to time, hopefully this twenty to forty dollar piece of metal breaks or bends instead of your derailleur, the price of which is rapidly inflating. Too bad there's a million hangers and none of them work with each other, but hey, that's the cost of providing consumers with a variety of frame designs and materials and varying price points!
OK, so we're trying to simplify things by getting vast swathes of the industry to move to a universal hanger. Great, right? But since we fucking hate you, we're going to make a bunch of them out of shittily moulded plastic riddled with manufacturing defects in our initial runs, thus ensuring that your brand new Trek (for which you waited a year and paid MSRP) is locked out of proper shifting for six to eight months, or whenever the supply chain woes end. Whichever is later!
Actually, forget the whole hanger thing. Now that we got most brands to standardize the mounting interface, we'll skip the hanger and make the derailleur mount directly to the frame. This was expensive to develop, but don't worry, we spent some of that R&D budget ensuring that we integrated both the function of a derailleur and the function of a hanger together: Not only will this thing smoothly and accurately shift under load, we purposely made parts of it kind of weak so it functions as a disposable hanger too! Best of all, instead of replacing that little piece of inexpensive aluminum, you now get to replace a very expensive little piece of aluminum that performed the same job! At least it's less than your $5,499.99 S-Works frame though, right?
BUT WAIT! What if I told you that you could replace those weaker parts of the transmission system with dramatically stronger aftermarket solutions? They'll take those crappy OEM bits and replace them with a colourful piece of CNC glory, and all for the low price of only somewhat more expensive than the OEM replacement! Best of all, those impact forces we were talking about? We figured out a way transfer them directly into your seat stay!
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend...
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend back straight. The downside was I’d would usually bust 3-5 derailleurs and a similar number of hangers per year. I got to a point that I used to bring an extra derailleur on long rides.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of...
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.
Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of frames which the derailleur attaches to. Usually, derailleurs aren't that expensive these days but just in case, it's meant to bend instead of allowing the derailleur to break. Because our frame is made of steel, we can usually just bend it back for free! How nice!
Since we moved on to alloy/carbon, we had to make the hanger its own item. We went with aluminum alloy so it's stiff and light, but if you snag up on a rock or cause your bike to go tumbling down the side of a mountain, which happens from time to time, hopefully this twenty to forty dollar piece of metal breaks or bends instead of your derailleur, the price of which is rapidly inflating. Too bad there's a million hangers and none of them work with each other, but hey, that's the cost of providing consumers with a variety of frame designs and materials and varying price points!
OK, so we're trying to simplify things by getting vast swathes of the industry to move to a universal hanger. Great, right? But since we fucking hate you, we're going to make a bunch of them out of shittily moulded plastic riddled with manufacturing defects in our initial runs, thus ensuring that your brand new Trek (for which you waited a year and paid MSRP) is locked out of proper shifting for six to eight months, or whenever the supply chain woes end. Whichever is later!
Actually, forget the whole hanger thing. Now that we got most brands to standardize the mounting interface, we'll skip the hanger and make the derailleur mount directly to the frame. This was expensive to develop, but don't worry, we spent some of that R&D budget ensuring that we integrated both the function of a derailleur and the function of a hanger together: Not only will this thing smoothly and accurately shift under load, we purposely made parts of it kind of weak so it functions as a disposable hanger too! Best of all, instead of replacing that little piece of inexpensive aluminum, you now get to replace a very expensive little piece of aluminum that performed the same job! At least it's less than your $5,499.99 S-Works frame though, right?
BUT WAIT! What if I told you that you could replace those weaker parts of the transmission system with dramatically stronger aftermarket solutions? They'll take those crappy OEM bits and replace them with a colourful piece of CNC glory, and all for the low price of only somewhat more expensive than the OEM replacement! Best of all, those impact forces we were talking about? We figured out a way transfer them directly into your seat stay!
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend...
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend back straight. The downside was I’d would usually bust 3-5 derailleurs and a similar number of hangers per year. I got to a point that I used to bring an extra derailleur on long rides.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile...
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
The thing I've learned from all this broken derailleur talk is that I don't ride hard enough.
I think it might be related to choice of derailleur too. I sold my X01 Eagle derailleur to a friend of mine who mounted it to his kid's bike where he says it shifts much better than the one year old GX it replaced. And I'm talking about an X01 that started life on a bike in 2019 and was used up to mid 2023, did over 400k meters of descending, multiple races and was, if nothing else, the only supporting point when I parked my bike sideways straight on the derailleur onto some soil fixating logs on the trail. Only had to straighten the hanger and all was good.
In the webpage that shows the new stumpjumper alloy it also appears the "2025 demo", but I'm pretty sure that's the 2024 color scheme, does that...
In the webpage that shows the new stumpjumper alloy it also appears the "2025 demo", but I'm pretty sure that's the 2024 color scheme, does that means they are just going to try to push that model into 2025 and then release the updated one next year? After all the time that they've been testing the new one with ubb kinda sucks they went that road (if they did), same with the "new" enduro with just the udh upgrade and the thrilling new Matte black color 🥱
2025 demo is on the US site. Some different specs for 25.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile...
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
Hold up… You carry a spare derailleur when you ride?!? Are your trails on Mount Doom or something?
I think it's more about the terrain you ride in and how well you do to miss hitting things.
agreed. the first 2 years i rode DH i went through probably 6 derailleurs a season, then i learned to pick better lines and not smash the hell of out things.
All the automation and then you end up with a load of dials to deal with. And you quite enjoy it 😆
Maybe a Transition, alu version of the upcoming Sentinel update? It looks like it's got the big chonky 56/56 head tube, and all their bikes use trunnion mount vertical shocks like that.
So, you're really concerned about ~0.5lbs on bikes that average around 37lbs (assuming enduro bikes)? I'm struggling to come to terms with that mattering much. Heck, I'm struggling to come to terms with how much that would matter on my XC bike that weights 24lbs. I understand that it is at a specific spot but real world usage doesn't seem to indicate relevance so I'm not sure that it would be any different in theory. I simply don't believe this is a real factor for 99.9999999% of people on bikes. I'm sure we can find someone that can actually tell the difference in controlled testing but I believe they're an extreme outlier if the exist at all.
Zebra
IDK, looks more like a zonkey to me.
It's a Rosignol
I don't think any of their current bikes are trunnion...https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes.cfm
The TR11, Smuggler, and Spur are the only non-trunnion models. The Spire, Scout, Sentinel, Relay, Repeater (PT and EP8), and Patrol all have trunnion mounted shocks.
Lol wut
Love you 😘
Can anyone explain the marketing strategy of Pivot letting Enduro-Mtb feature/review the bike and not showing it anywhere else,
including their website ??
according to the test in enduro-mtb launch will be in october. why they‘re allowed to post a review a month in advance i‘ve no clue, maybe because it‘s not widely available cause you have to use their app (which is free though)? 😅
none the less, that new suspension design really seems to rip according to their test. looking forward to reading more opinions/reviews.
I stopped reading Enduro-MTB when they defended headset cable routing as cleaner and "people whinged about internal routing so stop whinging".
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/headset-cable-routing/
they even tried plenty, but blind enough $$$$$ to say it's no biggie, which again $$$$$ it's hard not to say it's garbage when you're working on it, looking at it or whatever, perhaps they couldn't $ee properly
Enduro-mtb don’t have embargo in their dictionary
New Fox Coil Shock?
When you enter the SNR on the fox website
Every Enduro mag review......needs dh tyres and 220mm rotors.
Live valve with an external climb switch is interesting.
(also DH sizing with a climb switch...)
well they‘re not wrong when they say that exo or exo+ tires are too flimsy on an enduro bike if you use it properly
I think the external climb switch is actually used to set the preload amount for the live valve lockout. I’m interested to see if these require a bar mounted switch unlike FA. Seems like most EDR bikes have had one. Seems complicated.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
The thing I've learned from all this broken derailleur talk is that I don't ride hard enough.
I think it might be related to choice of derailleur too. I sold my X01 Eagle derailleur to a friend of mine who mounted it to his kid's bike where he says it shifts much better than the one year old GX it replaced. And I'm talking about an X01 that started life on a bike in 2019 and was used up to mid 2023, did over 400k meters of descending, multiple races and was, if nothing else, the only supporting point when I parked my bike sideways straight on the derailleur onto some soil fixating logs on the trail. Only had to straighten the hanger and all was good.
2025 demo is on the US site. Some different specs for 25.
Demo Race (specialized.com)
Hold up… You carry a spare derailleur when you ride?!? Are your trails on Mount Doom or something?
I think it's more about the terrain you ride in and how well you do to miss hitting things.
agreed. the first 2 years i rode DH i went through probably 6 derailleurs a season, then i learned to pick better lines and not smash the hell of out things.