MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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AJW1
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Bracknell GB
7/24/2024 5:38am

Just looked at the current and previous year's Hightowers. 

Every tier is Sram only. the lowest build has Sram NX, then there is a cable GX, then multiple AXS build tiers. They've entirely given up on Alu full suss bikes. (Did PON tell them that GT fills that market?)

There's now a wireless NX equivilent. Its not hard to see the benefit to eliminating the routing that only benefits the current bottom models. ESpecially on an SC which is fully guided in the front triangle, its not just a case of drilling two holes.

As others have said, surely shimano wireless is coming soon.

Just like with the specialized, the cable dropper I guess is remaining. Not yet enough or long enough options in the dropper world I guess. From owning a Santa Cruz, thats the one that could do with being eliminated, the routing around the shock tunnel is tight and stiff which is annoying when trying to insert a dropper with one hand, and pull the cable out of the head tube with the other.

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gibbon
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wales GB
7/24/2024 5:58am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2024 5:58am

It will be interesting which levels Shimano offer Di2 at. Traditionally they launch new groupsets at the highest tier first before releasing cheaper versions.
I wonder if there will be an Slx Di2 as they do 105 version for the road. But I thought I'd heard the slx/xt designations were being dropped.

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Primoz
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7/24/2024 6:08am

Isn't it slx being dropped, but xt, staying? So xtr, xt, deore? 

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slimshady
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AR
7/24/2024 6:09am
Primoz wrote:

Isn't it slx being dropped, but xt, staying? So xtr, xt, deore? 

Exactly. They will all be 13-speed, wireless, with just Deore offering a cable, 12-speed version.

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FaahkEet
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Falls Church, VA US
7/24/2024 6:30am
slimshady wrote:

Exactly. They will all be 13-speed, wireless, with just Deore offering a cable, 12-speed version.

Only 13? Be bold Shimano, only support super boost and offer 16 gears!

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seanfisseli
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Santa Cruz, CA US
7/24/2024 7:27am
Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy...

Big brands know you were going to buy a Raaw or a Forbidden. You think they’re trying to compete with those brands? Heck no. They’re happy to let them get in on the niche end of the game. Big brands don’t have time to chase trends. They make big fancy bikes for people with teslas and rivianz. Dakine Fanny and pit vipers and discretionary income. A couple kids on the way that the big brands want to get into the Fam asap. At least half the people at the big brands don’t even ride. They come from tech and vacuum companies and have business degrees and aren’t driven by emotions regarding Cable Routing. And that’s fine. These bikes are a lot of shops bread and butter. The cable routing (or lack thereof) isn’t about you and the metal bike you wrench on yourself, it’s about a way bigger ecosystem than most of us can even catch a glimpse of…

You shouldn’t be complaining about the divide. Ultimately your metal bike with external routing will be psyched to have the trickle down that the pointy end of Bike Development will eventually pass on to all of us. Gotta grow the industry at all points on the spectrum to have a healthy one. 

.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of...

.. I'm pretty sure most of those people with all the coolest new stuff are all about the eebz these days. Based on the ratio of e bikes to pedal bikes I've been seeing lately, I just wonder how big the market even is for ~$10k pedal bikes anymore.

They have both and more

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Puneta
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Phoenix, AZ US
7/24/2024 8:22am
I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are...

I love the irony in this thread. “Tech rumors and INNOVATION,” and the lot of you are against it. 

These darn whippersnappers running these bike companies are taking away my mechanical shifting! Wah!

image 2 

 

veefour wrote:

I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO. 

Then choose to buy another bike brand. 

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Uncle Cliffy
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Medford, OR US
7/24/2024 8:50am
veefour wrote:

I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO. 

That’s just the thing though. These bigger companies don’t want you to have a choice. I figured most of us would’ve accepted that by now.

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ebruner
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Tustin, CA US
7/24/2024 9:31am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2024 9:37am

Re: wireless only frames... as with everything in life the answer is likely it's a bit of everything.  Innovation slowing in areas like geo, suspension and overall product improvement from generation to generation lead to looking for notable and small gains.  Wireless shifting is likely one place where brands feel that they can offer something different and new to people that have bikes that don't have it... ie sell bikes.  

There is likely a bunch of other small influencers to this.  MFG cost, assembly cost, design cost, overall bike prices being so high that an extra 200-300 usd for an electronic drivetrain is an easy extension.  

One thing I was considering the other night, is how the sales data at each tier/part of this industry is aggregated and viewed.  The IBD's see the front lines this or that decisions and get feedback from the end consumer on if this decision is driving or breaking sales.  The mfg's likely have a mixed level of insight to that depending on how much they communicate or have a pipeline with the IBDs on what's happening on the ground.  My hunch, is that the bulk of their decision making is based off of their own ship/ibd volume.  To that end, the ibd's are likely placing their orders with the mid/higher tier builds and mfg's data is pointing to electronic drivetrains outselling the mechanical drivetrains.

For example, in discussing something similar to this with my LBS owner on a ride, he mentioned that he tries his best to only stock the floor with bikes that have performance elite level suspension (equivalent) or better.  Stating that he feels that's a better value proposition for the consumer, but also those bikes sell faster based on his data.  That, by extension, means electronic drivetrains are the majority of those sales at this moment because of the product manager/mfg spec.  

You know what would be rad?  Bikes with electronic shifting as shipped from the MFG, but with provisions for external cable routing.  Let's face it, most of the stalwarts at this point that don't want electronic shifting, also likely would prefer service and function over form and would want external brake and routing anyway.  At least, I think that would be rad.  

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2supple
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Denver, CO US
7/24/2024 11:10am
veefour wrote:

I'm not anti innovation, but I am pro choice. Having choices removed is a step backwards IMO. 

Pro choice ended a couple years ago 

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4
7/24/2024 11:12am

Am I the only one who thinks the empty holes for cable housing on wireless equipped bikes looks rad? (FWIW, I don't think Jeeps with the doors missing look rad lol)

I'm totally fine with wireless drivetrains if they can make it cost $200 like my 11sp Deore. I don't break derailleurs too often, but when I do I really love that they're $45 from my local shop and even cheaper (around $30) grey market. I just don't think I'd hang $100+ from the most vulnerable part of my bike. That money is better spent on literally any other component of the bike imo.

Sad to hear the news about SC going wireless only. Guess this 5010 (my favorite bike I've ever owned) will be my first and last SC. (Again, unless Shimano pulls some wizardry and gets their Deore wireless derailleur under $100)

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Baret
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COLORADO SPRINGS, CO US
7/24/2024 12:33pm

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

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Evil96
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Portogruaro, VE IT
7/24/2024 12:38pm
Baret wrote:
This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to...

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

contrary, it would be the first thing on marketplace, old cable eagle for the win, tried many of both and old eagle is still the best for me

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Jotegr
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7/24/2024 12:46pm
Baret wrote:
This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to...

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide. 100% I'd pull transmission too, no doubt in my mind.  

13
7/24/2024 1:02pm
Baret wrote:
This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to...

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

Jotegr wrote:
You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide...

You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide. 100% I'd pull transmission too, no doubt in my mind.  

I've done the same - 12S XT to an XT/Deore based, 10S linkglide mix. 

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Dogboy
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Chapel Hill, NC US
7/24/2024 1:47pm
Baret wrote:
This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to...

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

Got a new bike with GX Transmission and immediately pulled it off and replaced it with 12-speed Shimano Deore XT. Thankfully it had ports for the shift cable 😉

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1
dwhere
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dirty, DE US
Fantasy
7/24/2024 4:05pm

I love the mechanical nature of my bikes and understanding how it works. It’s some how less appealing to me when it all goes into a little black box.

12
7/24/2024 4:18pm
Baret wrote:
This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to...

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

Assuming people (especially in this forum) don't buy framesets and swap the parts they already have (and love) is silly lol. Last 8 years building from frames only the drivetrain is the ONE component that has been able to transfer from bike to bike. That's why this feels like a step back. Pay $500-$1000 more for the frame and now you've gotta open your wallet again and drop another rack on a wireless drivetrain that I'm sure is nice, but I can (and will) live without.

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codahale
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Fort Collins, CO US
7/24/2024 4:18pm

Smells like MTBR in here.

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metadave
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Revelstoke, BC CA
Fantasy
7/24/2024 4:21pm
Baret wrote:
This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to...

This wireless drivetrain debate is silly, when your new bike comes with transmission (which it likely will) I very much doubt you will be clamoring to get something cable actuated.   

Jotegr wrote:
You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide...

You say that, but I pulled a fresh XT 12 speed drivetrain off a bike a month ago in favour of 10 speed deore link glide. 100% I'd pull transmission too, no doubt in my mind.  

I've done the same - 12S XT to an XT/Deore based, 10S linkglide mix. 

Link glide/Cues is down right amazing and the cost of the groups is less than a transmission derailleur. We were having issues with someone blasting through cassettes and one bike brand's high torque output skipping under super heavy loads. Linkglide groups solved those and many other issues this year. My Rootdown is getting linkglide this winter for Christmas so I never have to worry about it again.

9
earleb
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North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
7/24/2024 4:23pm

What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on cable guides. Remove the Transmission tiny motors and jb weld in some bits n bobs to have it cable actuated. Just a right ugly hack with horrible cable routing and all. 

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Jotegr
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Interior, BC CA
7/24/2024 4:55pm
earleb wrote:
What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on...

What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on cable guides. Remove the Transmission tiny motors and jb weld in some bits n bobs to have it cable actuated. Just a right ugly hack with horrible cable routing and all. 

It could be you if you just don't put routing options on your next frame.  

2
earleb
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North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
7/24/2024 5:00pm
earleb wrote:
What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on...

What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on cable guides. Remove the Transmission tiny motors and jb weld in some bits n bobs to have it cable actuated. Just a right ugly hack with horrible cable routing and all. 

Jotegr wrote:

It could be you if you just don't put routing options on your next frame.  

Been there done that. My first full suspension frame I built back in 2014 I used electrical tape for the cables on the front triangle. The frame did last year I just had zipties. We need someone to commit to just electrical taping on cables on a new S-Works Stumpy. 

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kingsleyrh
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Hastings NZ
7/24/2024 9:08pm

Can anyone disclose the release date for the Specialized Stumpy 15 Alloy?

4
2supple
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Location
Denver, CO US
7/24/2024 9:12pm
earleb wrote:
What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on...

What we really need is someone to buy a wireless frame and a Transmission drivetrain then mod it all to run on cables. External glued on cable guides. Remove the Transmission tiny motors and jb weld in some bits n bobs to have it cable actuated. Just a right ugly hack with horrible cable routing and all. 

Should definitely route through the headset, heard it looks best that way

3
Zuestman
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Seattle, WA US
7/24/2024 9:16pm

Let’s get this back on track. Seen at whistlertIMG 3646 0

41
boozed
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AU
7/24/2024 9:35pm
Zuestman wrote:
Let’s get this back on track. Seen at whistlert

Let’s get this back on track. Seen at whistlertIMG 3646 0

That's a Ransom

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