2024 Racing Talk

2/21/2024 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2024 3:43pm
mickey wrote:
With the athletes I coach: I have the majority of the endurance athletes run whoop straps, just to track their sleep and recovery.   They are...

With the athletes I coach: I have the majority of the endurance athletes run whoop straps, just to track their sleep and recovery.   They are already paying me a bunch of money every month for my listening and observation skills, and I do value an additional metric to look at total load on the athlete enough to ask these folks to subscribe.  

We use ecg chest straps paired to the athletes power meter head units to monitor and record heart rate info during training and racing.

People with “high performance mindset” can and do often push themselves too hard, and are oblivious to it.  A product that specifically tells ya when to chill out isn’t for “normal” couch bound people- it’s for try-hards who are working too hard on and off the bike and don’t have the presence of mind to take it easy when needed... self-reflection is free, but it’s not a skill that modern society prioritizes.

Legitimately wondering, not just trying to crap on whoop.

Why not use a device (from Garmin as an example) that provides the same metrics while also providing accurate HR.

Whoop HR data is widely reported as inaccurate and that makes it difficult to believe the rest of their metrics because most if not all rely heavily on HR. I don't have first hand experience with whoop but have had lots of experience with Garmin.

I've been unfortunate enough to have my Garmin Fenix 5+ on while connected to a full cardiac monitor and it was very accurate. My Fenix 7 compares very accurately to hospital HR and pulse Ox monitoring that I get checked out with monthly. 

4
mickey
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2/21/2024 3:58pm

re: why coaches don’t hate Whoop

The athletes want to use Whoop because it is marketed to them consumer tech and wearables is not my personal preference, but people who want to pay me to tell them what to do aren’t always interested in writing me 600 word summaries of their life stress, mood state, sleep, etc...  All i know about Whoop is that it has a decent .api interface with Training Peaks, which is the SAAS platform that most coaches are using to build and monitor programs for athletes that are in established endurance sports with a “tech ecosystem”.  

20+ years before before ai was a buzzword, coaches have relied on algorithms and password protected excel spreadsheets to do the basic math of periodization, and Training Peaks has incorporated most of the validated periodization schemes into their program building tools.  

I only want to look at one platform to deal with an athlete, if their weable tech makes them happy and can port into my customized dashboard I make to keep track of a client, and their goals and priorities, i’m not going to say no.  

People who work, tend to work too hard.   A subscription that can “allow” you to take a rest day is a kind of social reinforcement many people who consume products crave.

3
2/21/2024 6:11pm
mickey wrote:
re: why coaches don’t hate Whoop The athletes want to use Whoop because it is marketed to them consumer tech and wearables is not my personal...

re: why coaches don’t hate Whoop

The athletes want to use Whoop because it is marketed to them consumer tech and wearables is not my personal preference, but people who want to pay me to tell them what to do aren’t always interested in writing me 600 word summaries of their life stress, mood state, sleep, etc...  All i know about Whoop is that it has a decent .api interface with Training Peaks, which is the SAAS platform that most coaches are using to build and monitor programs for athletes that are in established endurance sports with a “tech ecosystem”.  

20+ years before before ai was a buzzword, coaches have relied on algorithms and password protected excel spreadsheets to do the basic math of periodization, and Training Peaks has incorporated most of the validated periodization schemes into their program building tools.  

I only want to look at one platform to deal with an athlete, if their weable tech makes them happy and can port into my customized dashboard I make to keep track of a client, and their goals and priorities, i’m not going to say no.  

People who work, tend to work too hard.   A subscription that can “allow” you to take a rest day is a kind of social reinforcement many people who consume products crave.

That makes sense. 

Thanks for the detailed answer. I appreciate it. 

1
Losifer
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2/22/2024 7:35am
mickey wrote:
With the athletes I coach: I have the majority of the endurance athletes run whoop straps, just to track their sleep and recovery.   They are...

With the athletes I coach: I have the majority of the endurance athletes run whoop straps, just to track their sleep and recovery.   They are already paying me a bunch of money every month for my listening and observation skills, and I do value an additional metric to look at total load on the athlete enough to ask these folks to subscribe.  

We use ecg chest straps paired to the athletes power meter head units to monitor and record heart rate info during training and racing.

People with “high performance mindset” can and do often push themselves too hard, and are oblivious to it.  A product that specifically tells ya when to chill out isn’t for “normal” couch bound people- it’s for try-hards who are working too hard on and off the bike and don’t have the presence of mind to take it easy when needed... self-reflection is free, but it’s not a skill that modern society prioritizes.

Legitimately wondering, not just trying to crap on whoop. Why not use a device (from Garmin as an example) that provides the same metrics while also...

Legitimately wondering, not just trying to crap on whoop.

Why not use a device (from Garmin as an example) that provides the same metrics while also providing accurate HR.

Whoop HR data is widely reported as inaccurate and that makes it difficult to believe the rest of their metrics because most if not all rely heavily on HR. I don't have first hand experience with whoop but have had lots of experience with Garmin.

I've been unfortunate enough to have my Garmin Fenix 5+ on while connected to a full cardiac monitor and it was very accurate. My Fenix 7 compares very accurately to hospital HR and pulse Ox monitoring that I get checked out with monthly. 

Sorry that you are able to provide the comparison!

2
bizutch
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2/22/2024 8:30am

I would assume the inaccurate "data" from the Whoop is because Bruni is probably only using a wrist HR & ALL wrist HR's are vague at best.
Seriously doubt he's gonna have a chest mounted HR monitor synced up to the wrist unit in a race run.

1
2
2/22/2024 4:57pm
mickey wrote:
With the athletes I coach: I have the majority of the endurance athletes run whoop straps, just to track their sleep and recovery.   They are...

With the athletes I coach: I have the majority of the endurance athletes run whoop straps, just to track their sleep and recovery.   They are already paying me a bunch of money every month for my listening and observation skills, and I do value an additional metric to look at total load on the athlete enough to ask these folks to subscribe.  

We use ecg chest straps paired to the athletes power meter head units to monitor and record heart rate info during training and racing.

People with “high performance mindset” can and do often push themselves too hard, and are oblivious to it.  A product that specifically tells ya when to chill out isn’t for “normal” couch bound people- it’s for try-hards who are working too hard on and off the bike and don’t have the presence of mind to take it easy when needed... self-reflection is free, but it’s not a skill that modern society prioritizes.

Legitimately wondering, not just trying to crap on whoop. Why not use a device (from Garmin as an example) that provides the same metrics while also...

Legitimately wondering, not just trying to crap on whoop.

Why not use a device (from Garmin as an example) that provides the same metrics while also providing accurate HR.

Whoop HR data is widely reported as inaccurate and that makes it difficult to believe the rest of their metrics because most if not all rely heavily on HR. I don't have first hand experience with whoop but have had lots of experience with Garmin.

I've been unfortunate enough to have my Garmin Fenix 5+ on while connected to a full cardiac monitor and it was very accurate. My Fenix 7 compares very accurately to hospital HR and pulse Ox monitoring that I get checked out with monthly. 

Losifer wrote:

Sorry that you are able to provide the comparison!

Thanks,

Pretty severe asthma meant that COVID put me in the hospital for most of December 2020. 

The good thing that came of it is that it got me back on a mountain bike in August of 2021 after close to 20 years off the bike. 

6
2/25/2024 6:46am

Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the first WC of the season (and potentially the second, since they're so close together).

MTBDHdad
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2/25/2024 8:07am
Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the...

Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the first WC of the season (and potentially the second, since they're so close together).

I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore. He should be just fine regardless

1
2/25/2024 8:19am
Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the...

Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the first WC of the season (and potentially the second, since they're so close together).

MTBDHdad wrote:
I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore...

I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore. He should be just fine regardless

I hope you're correct. The phrasing of his post made it seem like he didn't have a precise diagnosis or timeline yet.

MTBDHdad
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2/25/2024 8:24am

For sure. Would be bummed to see him miss races 

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mfoga
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2/25/2024 9:35am
Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the...

Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the first WC of the season (and potentially the second, since they're so close together).

MTBDHdad wrote:
I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore...

I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore. He should be just fine regardless

Define torn?  In athlete I normally take that to completely torn or hanging on by a thread.  Those very rarely fall in that don't fix it category especially for someone as young as him.  

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MTBDHdad
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2/25/2024 9:42am
Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the...

Jackson Goldstone posted on Instagram that he has a probable torn MCL from his Hardline crash. Unfortunate news for him. Might prevent him from racing the first WC of the season (and potentially the second, since they're so close together).

MTBDHdad wrote:
I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore...

I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore. He should be just fine regardless

mfoga wrote:
Define torn?  In athlete I normally take that to completely torn or hanging on by a thread.  Those very rarely fall in that don't fix it...

Define torn?  In athlete I normally take that to completely torn or hanging on by a thread.  Those very rarely fall in that don't fix it category especially for someone as young as him.  

I have not seen a repaired MCL in my therapy practice in over 10 years and have seen many many torn. Maybe they will repair his who knows I just haven’t seen them in a long long time

4
Zuestman
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2/25/2024 11:44am
MTBDHdad wrote:
I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore...

I would doubt Jackson misses the first race due to a torn MCL unless something else is also torn as they are almost never fixed anymore. He should be just fine regardless

mfoga wrote:
Define torn?  In athlete I normally take that to completely torn or hanging on by a thread.  Those very rarely fall in that don't fix it...

Define torn?  In athlete I normally take that to completely torn or hanging on by a thread.  Those very rarely fall in that don't fix it category especially for someone as young as him.  

MTBDHdad wrote:
I have not seen a repaired MCL in my therapy practice in over 10 years and have seen many many torn. Maybe they will repair his...

I have not seen a repaired MCL in my therapy practice in over 10 years and have seen many many torn. Maybe they will repair his who knows I just haven’t seen them in a long long time

I had mine done in 2006.  I can't imagine riding with the full tear I had. It was clear the lack of stability that I had in my knee.  A partial tear is one thing... if it is gone I am sure they will do a full replacement. Good news is that the recovery from that was actually the least of all the knee injuries I have had.  I could see him back racing in time with a good brace on.

veefour
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2/25/2024 12:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2024 12:02pm

I remember Brendog racing with a knee brace after doing his ACL. I don't recall the full story, but I think he elected to try to get through the season and have it repaired when the season was over. Looking on Rand R his results seemed to be pretty much on par with the previous season (2011 and 2012).

I guess damaging ligaments is the same as breaking bones, in that it's different for everyone.

smelly
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2/25/2024 6:07pm
veefour wrote:
I remember Brendog racing with a knee brace after doing his ACL. I don't recall the full story, but I think he elected to try to...

I remember Brendog racing with a knee brace after doing his ACL. I don't recall the full story, but I think he elected to try to get through the season and have it repaired when the season was over. Looking on Rand R his results seemed to be pretty much on par with the previous season (2011 and 2012).

I guess damaging ligaments is the same as breaking bones, in that it's different for everyone.

ACL is a mandatory repair. MCL is not. Nearly impossible to be an athlete without an ACL. The MCL also has three muscles/tendons that help provide medial knee stability. So it’s nice to have, but not necessarily needed. Wouldn’t be surprised if not repairing it leads to more osteoarthritis down the line, though. 
MCL gets repaired if there’s also bone avulsion or substantial instability. 

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bizutch
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2/26/2024 6:25am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2024 6:26am
veefour wrote:
I remember Brendog racing with a knee brace after doing his ACL. I don't recall the full story, but I think he elected to try to...

I remember Brendog racing with a knee brace after doing his ACL. I don't recall the full story, but I think he elected to try to get through the season and have it repaired when the season was over. Looking on Rand R his results seemed to be pretty much on par with the previous season (2011 and 2012).

I guess damaging ligaments is the same as breaking bones, in that it's different for everyone.

smelly wrote:
ACL is a mandatory repair. MCL is not. Nearly impossible to be an athlete without an ACL. The MCL also has three muscles/tendons that help provide...

ACL is a mandatory repair. MCL is not. Nearly impossible to be an athlete without an ACL. The MCL also has three muscles/tendons that help provide medial knee stability. So it’s nice to have, but not necessarily needed. Wouldn’t be surprised if not repairing it leads to more osteoarthritis down the line, though. 
MCL gets repaired if there’s also bone avulsion or substantial instability. 

Osteoarthritis is the biggie.  I blew my ACL in slalom back in ye olden days. They gave me a new one. Ripped my meniscus in between the ACL and surgery & if I could do it again, I'd have babied my knee to not tear that cartlidge.  ACL replacement is in there still, but the missing meniscus is misery.

Blew my mind when Brendog raced without one.  Even with a knee brace, your bones slip, twist and slam around with no ACL in DH.  And he was improving his position overall & set to have a BIG season until that happened.  His results may "look" the same, but he wasn't the ascending rider he was on pace to become doing that.

Kids, if you blow an ACL, the sport does NOT matter.  Get it fixed. Do all your rehab.  Nothing is worth bone on bone for 30-40 years if you jack up the meniscus.

8
2/26/2024 8:59am

The Gravity Cooperative posted a handy "Guide to USDH for 2024" with all the regional and national events happening each month. Check it out if you're looking to go racing in the US or Canada this year!

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sspomer
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2/26/2024 9:29am

note this in there. Monster Pro DH Series at Snow Summit!

Screen Shot 2024-02-26 at 10.26.57 AM

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bizutch
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2/26/2024 11:02am

Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced?
I read in the blip something about electronic shifting.

Rode a Zerode enduro bike once and under load, the gears didn't like to shift to an easier gear.  
What are they doing different to shift under load more easily?  
Still that clunky Grip Shift you gotta tug hard on?  Seems less than ideal.

And yes...I do know you can "shift" while coasting, which I didn't ask. I'm talking under heavy load going to an easier gear.

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O1D4
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2/26/2024 2:01pm
bizutch wrote:
Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced? I read in the blip something about electronic shifting...

Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced?
I read in the blip something about electronic shifting.

Rode a Zerode enduro bike once and under load, the gears didn't like to shift to an easier gear.  
What are they doing different to shift under load more easily?  
Still that clunky Grip Shift you gotta tug hard on?  Seems less than ideal.

And yes...I do know you can "shift" while coasting, which I didn't ask. I'm talking under heavy load going to an easier gear.

https://pinion.eu/en/smartshift/

Disclaimer: not 100% sure if this is the gearbox on Blenki's bike but the way they allow for shifting under load is to do it electronically so that it can happen when the gearbox is in a state where it can actually shift.

2/26/2024 3:26pm
bizutch wrote:
Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced? I read in the blip something about electronic shifting...

Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced?
I read in the blip something about electronic shifting.

Rode a Zerode enduro bike once and under load, the gears didn't like to shift to an easier gear.  
What are they doing different to shift under load more easily?  
Still that clunky Grip Shift you gotta tug hard on?  Seems less than ideal.

And yes...I do know you can "shift" while coasting, which I didn't ask. I'm talking under heavy load going to an easier gear.

O1D4 wrote:
https://pinion.eu/en/smartshift/ Disclaimer: not 100% sure if this is the gearbox on Blenki's bike but the way they allow for shifting under load is to do it...

https://pinion.eu/en/smartshift/

Disclaimer: not 100% sure if this is the gearbox on Blenki's bike but the way they allow for shifting under load is to do it electronically so that it can happen when the gearbox is in a state where it can actually shift.

Yes its the smart shift electronic system in the new Zerode - the old gearboxes only needed the load to be backed off slightly (like a derailleur) but the reason for that was mostly in the shifting system from what I understand. The box itself can handle the shifting under load so I think the smartshift is able to make it happen because its acting directly on the gearbox. Its a trigger system too, but I havent been able to play with one in person yet to be able to compare

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owl-x
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2/26/2024 4:32pm

glad to see Blenki still doing some ETs at Hardline, even though he said he didn't have to with the gearbox bike

 

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sspomer
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2/27/2024 9:38am

reece wilson w/ an injury update

6D trail lid too. what's that big old knob on the back at 56 second mark?

3
StudBeefpile
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2/27/2024 2:26pm Edited Date/Time 2/27/2024 2:34pm
sspomer wrote:
reece wilson w/ an injury update 6D trail lid too. what's that big old knob on the back at 56 second mark?

reece wilson w/ an injury update

6D trail lid too. what's that big old knob on the back at 56 second mark?

"what's that big old knob on the back at 56 second mark?"

Volume control 

As much as I hate BOA systems, having something that cinches more of the entire helmet to your head rather then just tightening the back would be nice. 

1
sspomer
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2/27/2024 3:08pm
RedBaron82 wrote:

I think thats the device for head impact detection: https://www.hitrecognition.co.uk/products/hit-head-impact-severity-indi…

thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like you get flung around backwards and whiplashed to your back)? it's a massive single point of contact vs wide/smooth area like the rest of the helmet.

4
Masjo
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2/27/2024 10:21pm
RedBaron82 wrote:

I think thats the device for head impact detection: https://www.hitrecognition.co.uk/products/hit-head-impact-severity-indi…

sspomer wrote:
thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like...

thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like you get flung around backwards and whiplashed to your back)? it's a massive single point of contact vs wide/smooth area like the rest of the helmet.

It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't have a specific answer they were pretty confident that something like a GoPro would not significantly alter their score of a helmet which is nice to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbYaOiz5U4

StudBeefpile
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2/27/2024 10:52pm Edited Date/Time 2/27/2024 10:54pm
RedBaron82 wrote:

I think thats the device for head impact detection: https://www.hitrecognition.co.uk/products/hit-head-impact-severity-indi…

sspomer wrote:
thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like...

thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like you get flung around backwards and whiplashed to your back)? it's a massive single point of contact vs wide/smooth area like the rest of the helmet.

Masjo wrote:
It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't...

It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't have a specific answer they were pretty confident that something like a GoPro would not significantly alter their score of a helmet which is nice to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbYaOiz5U4

The gopro thing is a big deal because people thought it would stop the rotation of your head when you are sliding on the ground and cause a neck injury.  What I assume Spomer is referring to is when you get ejected and the first thing that hits the ground is that knob.  Kinda like if your wearing a baseball hat and someone hits you square on the top of the head on the little button.  Screenshot 2024-02-27 225120 How do i make this fuckin image smaller.. Jesus. 

5

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