2024 Racing Talk

veefour
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376
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Location
GB
2/28/2024 1:57am Edited Date/Time 2/28/2024 2:01am
Masjo wrote:
It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't...

It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't have a specific answer they were pretty confident that something like a GoPro would not significantly alter their score of a helmet which is nice to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbYaOiz5U4

From what I've read about Michael Schumacher's injury the jury is still out as to whether the camera was a contributing factor.

Karabuka
Posts
318
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Location
SI
2/28/2024 4:28am
bizutch wrote:
Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced? I read in the blip something about electronic shifting...

Can someone explain to me what is different about the Zerode Blenky is racing & Gamux raced?
I read in the blip something about electronic shifting.

Rode a Zerode enduro bike once and under load, the gears didn't like to shift to an easier gear.  
What are they doing different to shift under load more easily?  
Still that clunky Grip Shift you gotta tug hard on?  Seems less than ideal.

And yes...I do know you can "shift" while coasting, which I didn't ask. I'm talking under heavy load going to an easier gear.

With old gripshift pinion you had to let it go for it to change, there is no way around it. The benefit is that the shift is instant, you dont need to make a full spin of a crank for the chain to change cog. The let go requires a bit of adjustment, but I absolutely loved the instant shift on my test spin, if it only wasnt so freaking expensive...

1
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
2/28/2024 8:05am
sspomer wrote:
thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like...

thanks! so derailing for a bit, but could that thing be dangerous in a crash where first impact is on the lower/back of the head (like you get flung around backwards and whiplashed to your back)? it's a massive single point of contact vs wide/smooth area like the rest of the helmet.

Masjo wrote:
It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't...

It's probably not as big a deal as people previously thought. Seth at Berm Peak visited the Virginia Tech helmet ratings lab and while they didn't have a specific answer they were pretty confident that something like a GoPro would not significantly alter their score of a helmet which is nice to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbYaOiz5U4

The gopro thing is a big deal because people thought it would stop the rotation of your head when you are sliding on the ground and...

The gopro thing is a big deal because people thought it would stop the rotation of your head when you are sliding on the ground and cause a neck injury.  What I assume Spomer is referring to is when you get ejected and the first thing that hits the ground is that knob.  Kinda like if your wearing a baseball hat and someone hits you square on the top of the head on the little button.  Screenshot 2024-02-27 225120 How do i make this fuckin image smaller.. Jesus. 

yes, this, thank you. i think helmet-mounted gopros could be detrimental in the right kind of direct impact too. odds are possibly pretty low but afaik helmet companies go to great lengths when designing the shapes of their helmets to be deflective. adding things that stick out and create a single point of pressure doesn't seem ideal.

3
brash
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Location
AU
2/28/2024 12:43pm

7m15, Seth Ask a smart guy what he thinks about gopro's & helmets....

 

 

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All-MTN-MTB
Posts
74
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Location
Boulder, CO US
2/28/2024 12:50pm

I'm sure any safety implications change a lot with how rigidly an object is connected to the helmet. It makes sense why helmet designers/manufacturers wouldn't okay anything being attached to their helmets as CPSC, and any other testing they do, doesn't include anything mounted to the helmet. 

2
bizutch
Posts
810
Joined
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Location
Fletcher, NC US
2/29/2024 6:11am

A GoPro isn't serving as an impact multiplier or ramping up the friction of an initial impact in any way.
Concussions are like a cat of 9 tails on a bull whip. The weight of the head on the hinge of the neck is the amplifier.  
Now if you want to say the added WEIGHT of the GoPro is an amplifier because it increase the whiplash of the head on the pivoting neck, I'd be fine with that. 

GoPro on top (like with the hat) is a puncture/abrasion/fracture risk only if you lawn dart. No real concussion threat there. Lawn dart is too slow for concussion style injuries.

Any slam where a GoPro takes a role in stopping the helmet from rotating on impact is offset by the looseness of the helmet's interior and only slip plane tech & crush padding will mitigate deceleration of the brain against the skull.
 

 

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3
veefour
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Location
GB
2/29/2024 7:11am Edited Date/Time 2/29/2024 7:13am
bizutch wrote:
A GoPro isn't serving as an impact multiplier or ramping up the friction of an initial impact in any way. Concussions are like a cat of...

A GoPro isn't serving as an impact multiplier or ramping up the friction of an initial impact in any way.
Concussions are like a cat of 9 tails on a bull whip. The weight of the head on the hinge of the neck is the amplifier.  
Now if you want to say the added WEIGHT of the GoPro is an amplifier because it increase the whiplash of the head on the pivoting neck, I'd be fine with that. 

GoPro on top (like with the hat) is a puncture/abrasion/fracture risk only if you lawn dart. No real concussion threat there. Lawn dart is too slow for concussion style injuries.

Any slam where a GoPro takes a role in stopping the helmet from rotating on impact is offset by the looseness of the helmet's interior and only slip plane tech & crush padding will mitigate deceleration of the brain against the skull.
 

 

Years ago I dropped about 5 metres head first into a stream gully and landed on the top of my head. The impact was severe enough to fracture 3 of my vertebrae and cause me to loose consciousness, along with giving me a serious concussion. I landed in soft silt to the side of the stream, leaving a 6" deep helmet shaped indentation. Had I been wearing a GoPro I may well have died on impact as it probably wouldn't have sheared off to the side due to the silt, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

2
bizutch
Posts
810
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Location
Fletcher, NC US
2/29/2024 8:11am
bizutch wrote:
A GoPro isn't serving as an impact multiplier or ramping up the friction of an initial impact in any way. Concussions are like a cat of...

A GoPro isn't serving as an impact multiplier or ramping up the friction of an initial impact in any way.
Concussions are like a cat of 9 tails on a bull whip. The weight of the head on the hinge of the neck is the amplifier.  
Now if you want to say the added WEIGHT of the GoPro is an amplifier because it increase the whiplash of the head on the pivoting neck, I'd be fine with that. 

GoPro on top (like with the hat) is a puncture/abrasion/fracture risk only if you lawn dart. No real concussion threat there. Lawn dart is too slow for concussion style injuries.

Any slam where a GoPro takes a role in stopping the helmet from rotating on impact is offset by the looseness of the helmet's interior and only slip plane tech & crush padding will mitigate deceleration of the brain against the skull.
 

 

veefour wrote:
Years ago I dropped about 5 metres head first into a stream gully and landed on the top of my head. The impact was severe enough...

Years ago I dropped about 5 metres head first into a stream gully and landed on the top of my head. The impact was severe enough to fracture 3 of my vertebrae and cause me to loose consciousness, along with giving me a serious concussion. I landed in soft silt to the side of the stream, leaving a 6" deep helmet shaped indentation. Had I been wearing a GoPro I may well have died on impact as it probably wouldn't have sheared off to the side due to the silt, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

You agreed with me. Pretty certain.

1
3
2/29/2024 8:20am

Not to side track the conversation about deadly GoPro's, but this edit from Sleeper Co. got me HYPED this morning. Enjoy.

 

 

19
PJ205
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Location
Somewhere In, CA US
2/29/2024 8:26am
Not to side track the conversation about deadly GoPro's, but this edit from Sleeper Co. got me HYPED this morning. Enjoy.    

Not to side track the conversation about deadly GoPro's, but this edit from Sleeper Co. got me HYPED this morning. Enjoy.

 

 

I love their content and it heavily influenced me to try something new! I'm working on buying my first cinema camera as we speak because of these guys and the guys from the Fox Dialed series... Been slowly buying parts of my kit since last year and am about to pull the trigger on a body this week. Was a photographer at a bike retailer then randomly got tossed into a video role filming product stuff and learning as I go. I very quickly became addicted and now I want to take a risk and film stuff on my free time to see where it takes me...

13
bizutch
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Location
Fletcher, NC US
2/29/2024 1:36pm
Not to side track the conversation about deadly GoPro's, but this edit from Sleeper Co. got me HYPED this morning. Enjoy.    

Not to side track the conversation about deadly GoPro's, but this edit from Sleeper Co. got me HYPED this morning. Enjoy.

 

 

PJ205 wrote:
I love their content and it heavily influenced me to try something new! I'm working on buying my first cinema camera as we speak because of...

I love their content and it heavily influenced me to try something new! I'm working on buying my first cinema camera as we speak because of these guys and the guys from the Fox Dialed series... Been slowly buying parts of my kit since last year and am about to pull the trigger on a body this week. Was a photographer at a bike retailer then randomly got tossed into a video role filming product stuff and learning as I go. I very quickly became addicted and now I want to take a risk and film stuff on my free time to see where it takes me...

Just don't film it for the rich kid.

Do it for the grom living out of the back of an old Ford Ranger eating Ramen and traveling the length of the continent to get in the laps.    Woohoo

1
2
Maxipedia
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Brașov RO
2/29/2024 2:20pm

I just want to say I love Sleeper and everything they are doing. 

9
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
3/3/2024 5:37pm

red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch).

the interesting part to me was watching live during the last handful of riders and between english- and spanish-speaking broadcasts on youtube there were upwards of 30-35k people watching at that moment. that seems like a massive number for a race without a stacked roster.

the english version of the cerro abajo has 150k views after being up for 4 hours. to compare (and i know it's a finals vs semi-finals but...) MSA world cup semi-finals live on youtube has 118k views and world cups DH's biggest semi-finals is 149k views from lenzerheide. junior races seem to average 50-70k views. the world series channel has 128k subs while red bull bike has nearly 3 million, so red bull has a massive advantage there too. hardline tasmania is at 717k youtubez at the time of this post.

all this to say it's fun to compare any numbers we can actually see. i don't know how it all works with sponsors and "tv" branding and maybe the "cable/streaming" view counts we can't see are actually really huge. if i was a sponsor, however, i'd be hard-pressed to want to make a significant investment in live DH racing if it wasn't done on youtube (and facebook).

i wonder how much of it is a general "love" for anything red bull and "disdain" for UCI? would people not watch for free b/c it's a world cup? is the sensation of an urban race that much more exciting than a world cup? is it the time of year and people are frothing to watch bike racing? end of ramble : )

 

4
chriskief
Posts
300
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Location
New York, NY US
3/3/2024 6:19pm
sspomer wrote:
red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch). the interesting part to me was watching live during...

red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch).

the interesting part to me was watching live during the last handful of riders and between english- and spanish-speaking broadcasts on youtube there were upwards of 30-35k people watching at that moment. that seems like a massive number for a race without a stacked roster.

the english version of the cerro abajo has 150k views after being up for 4 hours. to compare (and i know it's a finals vs semi-finals but...) MSA world cup semi-finals live on youtube has 118k views and world cups DH's biggest semi-finals is 149k views from lenzerheide. junior races seem to average 50-70k views. the world series channel has 128k subs while red bull bike has nearly 3 million, so red bull has a massive advantage there too. hardline tasmania is at 717k youtubez at the time of this post.

all this to say it's fun to compare any numbers we can actually see. i don't know how it all works with sponsors and "tv" branding and maybe the "cable/streaming" view counts we can't see are actually really huge. if i was a sponsor, however, i'd be hard-pressed to want to make a significant investment in live DH racing if it wasn't done on youtube (and facebook).

i wonder how much of it is a general "love" for anything red bull and "disdain" for UCI? would people not watch for free b/c it's a world cup? is the sensation of an urban race that much more exciting than a world cup? is it the time of year and people are frothing to watch bike racing? end of ramble : )

 

Hard to beat free coverage from Red Bull, but I watched just to hear Rob and Eliot call the race.

5
18LifeToGo
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Sacremento, CA US
3/3/2024 6:25pm
sspomer wrote:
red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch). the interesting part to me was watching live during...

red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch).

the interesting part to me was watching live during the last handful of riders and between english- and spanish-speaking broadcasts on youtube there were upwards of 30-35k people watching at that moment. that seems like a massive number for a race without a stacked roster.

the english version of the cerro abajo has 150k views after being up for 4 hours. to compare (and i know it's a finals vs semi-finals but...) MSA world cup semi-finals live on youtube has 118k views and world cups DH's biggest semi-finals is 149k views from lenzerheide. junior races seem to average 50-70k views. the world series channel has 128k subs while red bull bike has nearly 3 million, so red bull has a massive advantage there too. hardline tasmania is at 717k youtubez at the time of this post.

all this to say it's fun to compare any numbers we can actually see. i don't know how it all works with sponsors and "tv" branding and maybe the "cable/streaming" view counts we can't see are actually really huge. if i was a sponsor, however, i'd be hard-pressed to want to make a significant investment in live DH racing if it wasn't done on youtube (and facebook).

i wonder how much of it is a general "love" for anything red bull and "disdain" for UCI? would people not watch for free b/c it's a world cup? is the sensation of an urban race that much more exciting than a world cup? is it the time of year and people are frothing to watch bike racing? end of ramble : )

 

You get massive numbers in those regions of the world. Lots of people watch on their phones. They typically aren't mtb customers. It's just eyeballs. So it's not a relevant audience. Great for Red Bull. Not great for a bike brand trying to sell things in the USA or Europe. 

2
casey79
Posts
182
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3/21/2010
Location
AU
3/4/2024 2:24am
sspomer wrote:
red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch). the interesting part to me was watching live during...

red bull cerro abajo vid below (it's also on our homepage, but it's a super fun watch).

the interesting part to me was watching live during the last handful of riders and between english- and spanish-speaking broadcasts on youtube there were upwards of 30-35k people watching at that moment. that seems like a massive number for a race without a stacked roster.

the english version of the cerro abajo has 150k views after being up for 4 hours. to compare (and i know it's a finals vs semi-finals but...) MSA world cup semi-finals live on youtube has 118k views and world cups DH's biggest semi-finals is 149k views from lenzerheide. junior races seem to average 50-70k views. the world series channel has 128k subs while red bull bike has nearly 3 million, so red bull has a massive advantage there too. hardline tasmania is at 717k youtubez at the time of this post.

all this to say it's fun to compare any numbers we can actually see. i don't know how it all works with sponsors and "tv" branding and maybe the "cable/streaming" view counts we can't see are actually really huge. if i was a sponsor, however, i'd be hard-pressed to want to make a significant investment in live DH racing if it wasn't done on youtube (and facebook).

i wonder how much of it is a general "love" for anything red bull and "disdain" for UCI? would people not watch for free b/c it's a world cup? is the sensation of an urban race that much more exciting than a world cup? is it the time of year and people are frothing to watch bike racing? end of ramble : )

 

717k views sound impressive but all it takes is a YouTube user to watch a video for a minimum of 30 seconds and its a count.

Redbull never publicly shared (teams receive them but its under a NDA) their Redbull TV ratings, neither does Disco/WB and that's where the true value for sponsors is found. 

3
2
veefour
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3/4/2024 3:07am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2024 3:09am
casey79 wrote:
717k views sound impressive but all it takes is a YouTube user to watch a video for a minimum of 30 seconds and its a count...

717k views sound impressive but all it takes is a YouTube user to watch a video for a minimum of 30 seconds and its a count.

Redbull never publicly shared (teams receive them but its under a NDA) their Redbull TV ratings, neither does Disco/WB and that's where the true value for sponsors is found. 

YT views are verifiable. Whether someone has viewed for a second or the whole show is a moot point as it applies to anyone putting anything on that site.

How are sponsors supposed to trust any numbers put forward by broadcast companies? There's nothing to back it up apart from their own figures, which can probably be easily massaged.

Unless we're somehow supposed to believe Josh Carlson when he talked about the "millions" of new viewers Discovery had brought to DH.

casey79
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AU
3/4/2024 3:50am
casey79 wrote:
717k views sound impressive but all it takes is a YouTube user to watch a video for a minimum of 30 seconds and its a count...

717k views sound impressive but all it takes is a YouTube user to watch a video for a minimum of 30 seconds and its a count.

Redbull never publicly shared (teams receive them but its under a NDA) their Redbull TV ratings, neither does Disco/WB and that's where the true value for sponsors is found. 

veefour wrote:
YT views are verifiable. Whether someone has viewed for a second or the whole show is a moot point as it applies to anyone putting anything...

YT views are verifiable. Whether someone has viewed for a second or the whole show is a moot point as it applies to anyone putting anything on that site.

How are sponsors supposed to trust any numbers put forward by broadcast companies? There's nothing to back it up apart from their own figures, which can probably be easily massaged.

Unless we're somehow supposed to believe Josh Carlson when he talked about the "millions" of new viewers Discovery had brought to DH.

YouTube views can be bought, so not always trusted. If youtube views are the new metric sponsors should be giving up on racing full stop. Channels like Berm Creek gets 300k plus views and over 500k on most uploads.

For a decade the teams and sponsors trusted Redbull TV's ratings no questions asked, why the change of heart?

Redbull doesn't broadcast and sponsor MTB because they are a nice non for profit, ma and pa business. Redbull is in the market to sell cans of drink at an insane profit (manufacturing cost of a single can – approximately US$0.09, the average wholesale price of a single can in Western countries – US$1.87 and the suggested retail price of a single can in Western countries – US$3.59). In 2023 they sold around 12.1 billion cans, that's billions of dollars of profit they can/could have been using to pay riders prize money etc. but chose not to, why because they telecast their events for "free"?

1
1
jwillp
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Location
Knoxville, TN US
3/4/2024 5:38am
sspomer wrote:
downhill southeast vital raw and results from TTC https://zone4.ca/race/2024-03-03/0dffb0c0/results

downhill southeast vital raw and results from TTC

https://zone4.ca/race/2024-03-03/0dffb0c0/results

Screen Shot 2024-03-03 at 12.32.33 PM.png?VersionId=faxbz

Screen Shot 2024-03-03 at 12.33.26 PM

Looking at the top 10 times at the downhill southeast this weekend, half of the top 10 times were kids 17 and under.   In my opinion the USDH scene is about to get really young and fast.  Those 5 young guns are:

Asa Vermette, Lucas Dedora, Chris Liebig, Charlie Golwyn and Collier Key

4
Trill Will
Posts
32
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3/6/2017
Location
Mooresville, NC US
3/4/2024 6:13am
sspomer wrote:
downhill southeast vital raw and results from TTC https://zone4.ca/race/2024-03-03/0dffb0c0/results

downhill southeast vital raw and results from TTC

https://zone4.ca/race/2024-03-03/0dffb0c0/results

Screen Shot 2024-03-03 at 12.32.33 PM.png?VersionId=faxbz

Screen Shot 2024-03-03 at 12.33.26 PM

jwillp wrote:
Looking at the top 10 times at the downhill southeast this weekend, half of the top 10 times were kids 17 and under.   In my opinion...

Looking at the top 10 times at the downhill southeast this weekend, half of the top 10 times were kids 17 and under.   In my opinion the USDH scene is about to get really young and fast.  Those 5 young guns are:

Asa Vermette, Lucas Dedora, Chris Liebig, Charlie Golwyn and Collier Key

There is no denying your opinion that changing of the Guard is in USDH is brewing.  I foresee an epic battle between Ryan Pinkerton and Dakota Norton/Luca Shaw at the Tennessee as a battle between the new guard and old guard.  Of course Asa and Lucas are a part of the new guard too, but they won't be able to compete in Elite at TN National as it is a UCI C1 race (unless I'm missing something).

3
18LifeToGo
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Location
Sacremento, CA US
3/4/2024 7:34am

The Monster Energy DH Series will be great. The US Open could be the best ever this season. 

4
sspomer
Posts
4292
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Location
Boise, ID US
3/4/2024 7:35am

jake kahn POV from DHSE #1

 

re: views/youtube/red bull etc - i just think it's fun to check out and compare as it's the only visible/consistent metric  across all accounts.

1
veefour
Posts
376
Joined
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Location
GB
3/4/2024 11:47am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2024 12:07pm
casey79 wrote:
YouTube views can be bought, so not always trusted. If youtube views are the new metric sponsors should be giving up on racing full stop. Channels like...

YouTube views can be bought, so not always trusted. If youtube views are the new metric sponsors should be giving up on racing full stop. Channels like Berm Creek gets 300k plus views and over 500k on most uploads.

For a decade the teams and sponsors trusted Redbull TV's ratings no questions asked, why the change of heart?

Redbull doesn't broadcast and sponsor MTB because they are a nice non for profit, ma and pa business. Redbull is in the market to sell cans of drink at an insane profit (manufacturing cost of a single can – approximately US$0.09, the average wholesale price of a single can in Western countries – US$1.87 and the suggested retail price of a single can in Western countries – US$3.59). In 2023 they sold around 12.1 billion cans, that's billions of dollars of profit they can/could have been using to pay riders prize money etc. but chose not to, why because they telecast their events for "free"?

OK, name another mainstream company that's done more for the sport and the athletes it supports in the last 15 years than RB. 

You ask why the change of heart? Can you point me to anyone from RB vastly over estimating (or just plain lying) on screen about the number of new viewers they've brought to the sport?

 

You'll probably say they're only doing it to sell more fizzy drinks. No companies get involved in sponsoring MTB events out of the kindness of their hearts, they all do it for exposure and in an attempt to sell more of their product (for what it's worth I've never bought a can of RedBull in my life). Ultimately there's nothing stopping other companies sponsoring events that progress the sport in the way RB have, but very few do and for some reason there are people such as yourself that seem to hate RB for it.

5
Trill Will
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32
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3/6/2017
Location
Mooresville, NC US
3/4/2024 12:27pm

DHSE Round 1 Replay Show from the Trials Training Center is live on Youtube!  Yep, the kids are alright... #USDH

 

 

9
3/4/2024 8:42pm

DHSE is booming!

Even spawning bikes with Frameworks and Southern Gravity. It's like the DH glory days of the 90's are returning.

5

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