Catching up on the thread and not to pile on to said dead horse but there is info out there for Athertons (bikes, racing, trees, etc) if you're so inclined. Some interesting reading if you're @jeff.brines geeky. For the record, I like what they're doing, am a big fan, and hope to add one of their bikes to my garage later this year. Atherton Bikes 1, 2 Atherton Racing Dyfi Bike Park Dyfi Timber Company Atherton Group Holdings Tenths Distribution