The last gen Shimano 2x front mtb derailleurs were actually ridiculously good IMO. The horizontal swing rather than vertical made set up ridiculously easy once you...
The last gen Shimano 2x front mtb derailleurs were actually ridiculously good IMO. The horizontal swing rather than vertical made set up ridiculously easy once you got over your 20+ years of front derailleurs operating in the same general fashion knowledge, Simplex be damned. Getting rid of that vertical swing seemed to have nixxed a lot of opp for the chain to get derailed poorly.
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed...
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed should be essentially zero loss, and the other a single gear stage, so probably 97+% efficient.
It might be made to fit in a BB-shell, so perhaps compatible with existing frames. Not sure if gearing can be made that compact though. This would eliminate the front DR, and reduce the size and weight of the cassette and rear DR, and potentially offer finer gear ratios.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
Shop I work at invested in all the facing tools for Hammerschmidt. Like, a big investment. Then it didn’t sell…
The last gen Shimano 2x front mtb derailleurs were actually ridiculously good IMO. The horizontal swing rather than vertical made set up ridiculously easy once you...
The last gen Shimano 2x front mtb derailleurs were actually ridiculously good IMO. The horizontal swing rather than vertical made set up ridiculously easy once you got over your 20+ years of front derailleurs operating in the same general fashion knowledge, Simplex be damned. Getting rid of that vertical swing seemed to have nixxed a lot of opp for the chain to get derailed poorly.
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed...
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed should be essentially zero loss, and the other a single gear stage, so probably 97+% efficient.
It might be made to fit in a BB-shell, so perhaps compatible with existing frames. Not sure if gearing can be made that compact though. This would eliminate the front DR, and reduce the size and weight of the cassette and rear DR, and potentially offer finer gear ratios.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose sort of a fusion of conventional and GB solution. I'm not sure a geared rear hub plus cassette and DR will be a win in that aspect.
I suppose it could be electric shifting, but if the 2-speed BB gave you something close to 2:1 gearing, there would be little overlap, and you might just shift when you change from climbing to descending, and mechanical shifting would be easy enough. Most of us did for a decade or two.
Certainly pros and cons. Not only would the lower range 8-speed cassette be a lot smaller and lighter, it would likely be a lot cheaper, due to reduced material cost and machining time. The DR could use a short cage, and maybe function OK without a clutch. Getting rid of the clutch reduces cost, and improves efficiency and suspension function. On the other hand, one more, probably expensive part at the BB, perhaps creating more maintenance work, and another set of wear parts. If the system can't be packaged as compact as a conventional BB, then it would require buy-in from any of the larger frame manufacturers, so probably a boutique frame option for a while.
I'm curious if this has been tried, or perhaps one of the big S-companies owns an unprofitable patent for such a thing already.
EDIT: sorry, just searched and saw that the HammerSchmidt was exactly what I was referring to, rather than a rear hub. Perhaps a retooled modern version could be made compact enough to be more practical.
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed...
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed should be essentially zero loss, and the other a single gear stage, so probably 97+% efficient.
It might be made to fit in a BB-shell, so perhaps compatible with existing frames. Not sure if gearing can be made that compact though. This would eliminate the front DR, and reduce the size and weight of the cassette and rear DR, and potentially offer finer gear ratios.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose...
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose sort of a fusion of conventional and GB solution. I'm not sure a geared rear hub plus cassette and DR will be a win in that aspect.
I suppose it could be electric shifting, but if the 2-speed BB gave you something close to 2:1 gearing, there would be little overlap, and you might just shift when you change from climbing to descending, and mechanical shifting would be easy enough. Most of us did for a decade or two.
Certainly pros and cons. Not only would the lower range 8-speed cassette be a lot smaller and lighter, it would likely be a lot cheaper, due to reduced material cost and machining time. The DR could use a short cage, and maybe function OK without a clutch. Getting rid of the clutch reduces cost, and improves efficiency and suspension function. On the other hand, one more, probably expensive part at the BB, perhaps creating more maintenance work, and another set of wear parts. If the system can't be packaged as compact as a conventional BB, then it would require buy-in from any of the larger frame manufacturers, so probably a boutique frame option for a while.
I'm curious if this has been tried, or perhaps one of the big S-companies owns an unprofitable patent for such a thing already.
EDIT: sorry, just searched and saw that the HammerSchmidt was exactly what I was referring to, rather than a rear hub. Perhaps a retooled modern version could be made compact enough to be more practical.
Is it possible that High Gear could achieve this? You already have a separate input and output shaft which gives you more room, and 2 chains/gear sets connecting these. You could have different ratios between these 2 gear sets, and then you’d just need a way to toggle between which one is engaged (obviously a massive oversimplification). This would seemingly be the most efficient way to go about this too.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose...
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose sort of a fusion of conventional and GB solution. I'm not sure a geared rear hub plus cassette and DR will be a win in that aspect.
I suppose it could be electric shifting, but if the 2-speed BB gave you something close to 2:1 gearing, there would be little overlap, and you might just shift when you change from climbing to descending, and mechanical shifting would be easy enough. Most of us did for a decade or two.
Certainly pros and cons. Not only would the lower range 8-speed cassette be a lot smaller and lighter, it would likely be a lot cheaper, due to reduced material cost and machining time. The DR could use a short cage, and maybe function OK without a clutch. Getting rid of the clutch reduces cost, and improves efficiency and suspension function. On the other hand, one more, probably expensive part at the BB, perhaps creating more maintenance work, and another set of wear parts. If the system can't be packaged as compact as a conventional BB, then it would require buy-in from any of the larger frame manufacturers, so probably a boutique frame option for a while.
I'm curious if this has been tried, or perhaps one of the big S-companies owns an unprofitable patent for such a thing already.
EDIT: sorry, just searched and saw that the HammerSchmidt was exactly what I was referring to, rather than a rear hub. Perhaps a retooled modern version could be made compact enough to be more practical.
Is it possible that High Gear could achieve this? You already have a separate input and output shaft which gives you more room, and 2 chains/gear...
Is it possible that High Gear could achieve this? You already have a separate input and output shaft which gives you more room, and 2 chains/gear sets connecting these. You could have different ratios between these 2 gear sets, and then you’d just need a way to toggle between which one is engaged (obviously a massive oversimplification). This would seemingly be the most efficient way to go about this too.
In principle, yes. I'm not sure if they left sufficient room to have sufficient gear range in the casting, and you'd need a way to determine which of the spun the final drive. Unfortunately, it would spin both chains all the time, but perhaps the loss in an unpowered chain would be small.
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed...
I think if we want to revisit a 2x8, it might make more sense to have something like the 2-speed hubs unicyclists use (KH-Schlumpf). One speed should be essentially zero loss, and the other a single gear stage, so probably 97+% efficient.
It might be made to fit in a BB-shell, so perhaps compatible with existing frames. Not sure if gearing can be made that compact though. This would eliminate the front DR, and reduce the size and weight of the cassette and rear DR, and potentially offer finer gear ratios.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose...
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose sort of a fusion of conventional and GB solution. I'm not sure a geared rear hub plus cassette and DR will be a win in that aspect.
I suppose it could be electric shifting, but if the 2-speed BB gave you something close to 2:1 gearing, there would be little overlap, and you might just shift when you change from climbing to descending, and mechanical shifting would be easy enough. Most of us did for a decade or two.
Certainly pros and cons. Not only would the lower range 8-speed cassette be a lot smaller and lighter, it would likely be a lot cheaper, due to reduced material cost and machining time. The DR could use a short cage, and maybe function OK without a clutch. Getting rid of the clutch reduces cost, and improves efficiency and suspension function. On the other hand, one more, probably expensive part at the BB, perhaps creating more maintenance work, and another set of wear parts. If the system can't be packaged as compact as a conventional BB, then it would require buy-in from any of the larger frame manufacturers, so probably a boutique frame option for a while.
I'm curious if this has been tried, or perhaps one of the big S-companies owns an unprofitable patent for such a thing already.
EDIT: sorry, just searched and saw that the HammerSchmidt was exactly what I was referring to, rather than a rear hub. Perhaps a retooled modern version could be made compact enough to be more practical.
Basically an electronic hammerschmidt. Classified hub but at the bb/chainring. Like primoz said, running a 6spd and having electronic alternate shifting between the hub and derailleur each shift would be a cool concept. Even cooler if it could be done at the bb/chainring
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
I like this concept .. The only drawback I see is what kind of range do you put on the six external gears? Do you focus towards climbing since speed is limited by the motor anyway? Find a middle ground to keep the derailleur cage as short as possible? With electronics syncing everything, it could feel similar to a traditional 12 speed setup.. Power both the hub and derailleur off the ebike battery so you don't have to worry about charging...
Definitely an interesting concept that could work..
Exciting to finally see what’s up with it! Edit*- realized my screenshot didn't include names. This is WRPs one we've been seeing for last couple years.
Exciting to finally see what’s up with it!
Edit*- realized my screenshot didn't include names. This is WRPs one we've been seeing for last couple years.
Weird to see it on a hard tail. Reminds me of what trials bikes have been running for years, just with a greater tooth count.
I say we get SRAM to bring back the Hammerschmidt.
Hammerschmidt revised to be 18 years newer could be a pretty sweet thing when coupled with a small cassette and rear mech. You could probably also get pretty flash in the whole SRAM battery conspiracy universe and have it switch back and forth between ratios to allow you to just use one shifter across the entire gear range. I would love to try the old one on my SS hardtail to give it a trail gear and a commuting gear.
Exciting to finally see what’s up with it! Edit*- realized my screenshot didn't include names. This is WRPs one we've been seeing for last couple years.
Exciting to finally see what’s up with it!
Edit*- realized my screenshot didn't include names. This is WRPs one we've been seeing for last couple years.
Context? not familiar with the O-chain mechanism, but whatever this is, looks like it allows force to only be transmitted one way (pedaling vs pedal kick...
Context? not familiar with the O-chain mechanism, but whatever this is, looks like it allows force to only be transmitted one way (pedaling vs pedal kick back)
Allows for elimination of kickback while maintaining the anti squat
Pedalling and kickback are the same force; foot and pedal "push" against each other because the chain is under tension between the top of the chainring and cassette. If this is an anti-PK device, I think there has to be something else going on.
I've actually been thinking about it for the past few days, does it really have to be positioned as it is and have an idler? Couldn't...
I've actually been thinking about it for the past few days, does it really have to be positioned as it is and have an idler? Couldn't you massage it into a shape where the chain goes directly onto the front chainring and there's a sort of derailler cage with two pulleys doing the tensioning and handling chain length through the gears somewhere between the front ring and the cassette (ala what Pinion does with their tensioner at the end of the day)? And have the derailleur then mounted behind or below the axle, not in front of it?
What if we tried putting a small derailleur on the front cogs, may be just like 2-3 gears, then a 5-7 speed cassette on the rear...
What if we tried putting a small derailleur on the front cogs, may be just like 2-3 gears, then a 5-7 speed cassette on the rear with another smaller derailleur? Same ratios but better weight distribution?
how about a series hybrid, like the Also TM-B. There's no mechanical connection between rider input and what the drive unit does. All gear ratios are...
how about a series hybrid, like the Also TM-B. There's no mechanical connection between rider input and what the drive unit does. All gear ratios are "simulated" by the motor. I wonder if this would be efficient enough to NOT use a battery, just transfer all rider power to the motor instantaneously. You can solve the problems of chain/derailleur/unsprung weight on the rear axle all at once too.
When I test rode one ~1 month ago they mentioned there is effectively an infinite “turtle” mode that prevents the battery from draining completely and uses your power generated to keep the basic electronics running and the bike moving, but you aren’t going to go fast. That aside, the motor is pretty insanely powerful and responsive. Made me feel like a kid again which is a priceless experience 😄
The last 2 pages have discussed nothing newer than Hammerschmidt. Please take it to another thread.
They are also talking about Classified planetary gear hubs… a soon to be dead like Hammercshmidt technology.
An external deraileur based drivetrain will always be lighter and more efficient than the losses you get in planetary gears. From a bicycle dynamics perspective, adding a massive amount of unsprung mass to your rear wheel is horrible. I had a Classified hub in for evaluation on my drop bar bikes…. even on a fully rigid bike riding on pavement and blue machine built singletrack the excessive rear wheel weight from the classified system feels just as crappy as running a Rohloft out back. Just like a Hammerschmidt(my pair is in someone’s basement somewhere), Classified has the most drag when you are in the reduction gear, and it’s most noticeable in easier cogs…so the slower and weaker you are, the more your components are slowing you down.
The whole point of gearboxes in the day of robust rear derailleurs with wide range cassettes is mass centralization and optimizing sprung to un-sprung mass ratio.
Classified hubs have a place in flat/power climb road races or time trials, allowing you to noticeably reduce friction by running a massive single chainring and larger cogs with a straighter chainline. Even with the mechanical losses in the reduction gear, more chain wrap from not ever using the 10-14t cogs yields less friction in the drivetrain than the silly, tiny final cogs that sram and campy peddle on their newer road and gravel groupsets.
AFAIK, it's just new Sentinel colors (on the website).
New Sentinel colors came out a few months ago. They updated specs, colors and added MX. IDK what is coming next, but Sentinel update was a bit ago. I got one and am loving it!
New Sentinel colors came out a few months ago. They updated specs, colors and added MX. IDK what is coming next, but Sentinel update was a...
New Sentinel colors came out a few months ago. They updated specs, colors and added MX. IDK what is coming next, but Sentinel update was a bit ago. I got one and am loving it!
I'd wager a guess at new Patrol/Smuggler colors/build kits
They are also talking about Classified planetary gear hubs… a soon to be dead like Hammercshmidt technology. An external deraileur based drivetrain will always be lighter...
They are also talking about Classified planetary gear hubs… a soon to be dead like Hammercshmidt technology.
An external deraileur based drivetrain will always be lighter and more efficient than the losses you get in planetary gears. From a bicycle dynamics perspective, adding a massive amount of unsprung mass to your rear wheel is horrible. I had a Classified hub in for evaluation on my drop bar bikes…. even on a fully rigid bike riding on pavement and blue machine built singletrack the excessive rear wheel weight from the classified system feels just as crappy as running a Rohloft out back. Just like a Hammerschmidt(my pair is in someone’s basement somewhere), Classified has the most drag when you are in the reduction gear, and it’s most noticeable in easier cogs…so the slower and weaker you are, the more your components are slowing you down.
The whole point of gearboxes in the day of robust rear derailleurs with wide range cassettes is mass centralization and optimizing sprung to un-sprung mass ratio.
Classified hubs have a place in flat/power climb road races or time trials, allowing you to noticeably reduce friction by running a massive single chainring and larger cogs with a straighter chainline. Even with the mechanical losses in the reduction gear, more chain wrap from not ever using the 10-14t cogs yields less friction in the drivetrain than the silly, tiny final cogs that sram and campy peddle on their newer road and gravel groupsets.
Quick correction- Hammerschimdt had an overdrive, opposite of the hub thing. Pedaling in low, it was just a 22 or 24 tooth chainring. Going up gave you a 1.6 overdrive, and that's when you felt the gears meshing. Climbing gears were just as efficient as a single ring, except for the extra weight.
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt. In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled...
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
I like this concept .. The only drawback I see is what kind of range do you put on the six external gears? Do you focus...
I like this concept .. The only drawback I see is what kind of range do you put on the six external gears? Do you focus towards climbing since speed is limited by the motor anyway? Find a middle ground to keep the derailleur cage as short as possible? With electronics syncing everything, it could feel similar to a traditional 12 speed setup.. Power both the hub and derailleur off the ebike battery so you don't have to worry about charging...
Definitely an interesting concept that could work..
Use a 10 14 18 24 32 44 cassette with a 0,8 ratio hub.
The XO/90 build surprises me a little. XO cranks, with transmission 90. Looking at the cost difference it looks like less of a price-point decision and more like they see demand for cable shifting
Congratulations, you invented Hammerschmidt.
In my opinion, and I've already talked about this, something like a Classified hub could be potentially viable for mtb use, but coupled with a 6 speed wide range cassette. Think skipping every second gear we have currently and having around 40 % jumps between gears. The gap in between those is handled by the internal hub.
Obviously the derailleur would have to be electric then and the buttons on the handlebars would control both the derailleur and the internal hub as the latter would shift every time with the derailleur shifting only every other gear.
Having "2 front rings" is too far apart to be of practical use... Any time you'd want to shift the hub you'd also have to shift 4+ gears in the back st the same time.
Shop I work at invested in all the facing tools for Hammerschmidt. Like, a big investment. Then it didn’t sell…
WHATS OLD IS NEW AGAIN
https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/13049543/
The Zerode guy actually made something like this, back in the pre-dropper post days, but in a trail bike form. I can't find the photo
I was thinking about the 2x transmission in the BB area, in an effort to keep unsprung mass of the rear axle down, so I suppose sort of a fusion of conventional and GB solution. I'm not sure a geared rear hub plus cassette and DR will be a win in that aspect.
I suppose it could be electric shifting, but if the 2-speed BB gave you something close to 2:1 gearing, there would be little overlap, and you might just shift when you change from climbing to descending, and mechanical shifting would be easy enough. Most of us did for a decade or two.
Certainly pros and cons. Not only would the lower range 8-speed cassette be a lot smaller and lighter, it would likely be a lot cheaper, due to reduced material cost and machining time. The DR could use a short cage, and maybe function OK without a clutch. Getting rid of the clutch reduces cost, and improves efficiency and suspension function. On the other hand, one more, probably expensive part at the BB, perhaps creating more maintenance work, and another set of wear parts. If the system can't be packaged as compact as a conventional BB, then it would require buy-in from any of the larger frame manufacturers, so probably a boutique frame option for a while.
I'm curious if this has been tried, or perhaps one of the big S-companies owns an unprofitable patent for such a thing already.
EDIT: sorry, just searched and saw that the HammerSchmidt was exactly what I was referring to, rather than a rear hub. Perhaps a retooled modern version could be made compact enough to be more practical.
Is it possible that High Gear could achieve this? You already have a separate input and output shaft which gives you more room, and 2 chains/gear sets connecting these. You could have different ratios between these 2 gear sets, and then you’d just need a way to toggle between which one is engaged (obviously a massive oversimplification). This would seemingly be the most efficient way to go about this too.
You guys....sigh.
Loving the high-forward pivot with multiple options for even higher, more forward pivot. Peak mid 2000s go fast technology.
In principle, yes. I'm not sure if they left sufficient room to have sufficient gear range in the casting, and you'd need a way to determine which of the spun the final drive. Unfortunately, it would spin both chains all the time, but perhaps the loss in an unpowered chain would be small.
Basically an electronic hammerschmidt. Classified hub but at the bb/chainring. Like primoz said, running a 6spd and having electronic alternate shifting between the hub and derailleur each shift would be a cool concept. Even cooler if it could be done at the bb/chainring
Ok, one of these bad boys, but there's a Rohlof or Kinder nay (RIP) in there instead of a motor
I think that will last until the first log I try to ride over.
I like this concept .. The only drawback I see is what kind of range do you put on the six external gears? Do you focus towards climbing since speed is limited by the motor anyway? Find a middle ground to keep the derailleur cage as short as possible? With electronics syncing everything, it could feel similar to a traditional 12 speed setup.. Power both the hub and derailleur off the ebike battery so you don't have to worry about charging...
Definitely an interesting concept that could work..
Weird to see it on a hard tail. Reminds me of what trials bikes have been running for years, just with a greater tooth count.
I say we get SRAM to bring back the Hammerschmidt.
Hammerschmidt revised to be 18 years newer could be a pretty sweet thing when coupled with a small cassette and rear mech. You could probably also get pretty flash in the whole SRAM battery conspiracy universe and have it switch back and forth between ratios to allow you to just use one shifter across the entire gear range. I would love to try the old one on my SS hardtail to give it a trail gear and a commuting gear.
This guy could sell ice to an Eskimo
https://www.pinkbike.com/video/40871/
Pedalling and kickback are the same force; foot and pedal "push" against each other because the chain is under tension between the top of the chainring and cassette. If this is an anti-PK device, I think there has to be something else going on.
The last 2 pages have discussed nothing newer than Hammerschmidt. Please take it to another thread.
anyone have any info on the new transition coming today/tomorrow?
When I test rode one ~1 month ago they mentioned there is effectively an infinite “turtle” mode that prevents the battery from draining completely and uses your power generated to keep the basic electronics running and the bike moving, but you aren’t going to go fast. That aside, the motor is pretty insanely powerful and responsive. Made me feel like a kid again which is a priceless experience 😄
They are also talking about Classified planetary gear hubs… a soon to be dead like Hammercshmidt technology.
An external deraileur based drivetrain will always be lighter and more efficient than the losses you get in planetary gears. From a bicycle dynamics perspective, adding a massive amount of unsprung mass to your rear wheel is horrible. I had a Classified hub in for evaluation on my drop bar bikes…. even on a fully rigid bike riding on pavement and blue machine built singletrack the excessive rear wheel weight from the classified system feels just as crappy as running a Rohloft out back. Just like a Hammerschmidt(my pair is in someone’s basement somewhere), Classified has the most drag when you are in the reduction gear, and it’s most noticeable in easier cogs…so the slower and weaker you are, the more your components are slowing you down.
The whole point of gearboxes in the day of robust rear derailleurs with wide range cassettes is mass centralization and optimizing sprung to un-sprung mass ratio.
Classified hubs have a place in flat/power climb road races or time trials, allowing you to noticeably reduce friction by running a massive single chainring and larger cogs with a straighter chainline. Even with the mechanical losses in the reduction gear, more chain wrap from not ever using the 10-14t cogs yields less friction in the drivetrain than the silly, tiny final cogs that sram and campy peddle on their newer road and gravel groupsets.
AFAIK, it's just new Sentinel colors (on the website).
New Sentinel colors came out a few months ago. They updated specs, colors and added MX. IDK what is coming next, but Sentinel update was a bit ago. I got one and am loving it!
I'd wager a guess at new Patrol/Smuggler colors/build kits
Quick correction- Hammerschimdt had an overdrive, opposite of the hub thing. Pedaling in low, it was just a 22 or 24 tooth chainring. Going up gave you a 1.6 overdrive, and that's when you felt the gears meshing. Climbing gears were just as efficient as a single ring, except for the extra weight.
Use a 10 14 18 24 32 44 cassette with a 0,8 ratio hub.
New Yeti LT details and ride impressions are live - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/first-ride-yetis-new-lt-enduro-bike-absolutely-slaps
Highlights
Larsnbars was able to get this sick on it, so you know it's pretty dope
Geometry
Builds
I'm assuming it rides like a dream?
The XO/90 build surprises me a little. XO cranks, with transmission 90. Looking at the cost difference it looks like less of a price-point decision and more like they see demand for cable shifting
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