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ya, weird way of saying my specific LBS doesn't want to stock any Stereos or other totally normal cool bikes from Cube, and therefore I will associate them with not being a core MTB brand more or less.
this thread is slowly devolving into pointing out mundane, obvious things companies do and then inferring you see it as good or bad depending on whether you like the company. most brands aren't particularly innovative right now. eBikes ARE gonna be the innovation for a bit. it's a sector that NEEDS work unlike normal bikes which are fairly sweet right now. i still think most ebikes are crap, with iffy motors and zero effort in sustainability/backwards compatibility/user repair/etc. (i like that TQ made their new motor fit the old mount, and Transition made an ebike that looks normal when riding without a battery, etc)
the real criminal shame here is YT faltering RIGHT when they finally stopped running SRAM SX/NX and other iffy decisions of their past. Those new builds with Hayes brakes and Conti tires were the best out of box value by far. Would love to see more stock bikes with Contis and maybe Hayes. But nah, its DB8 and eagle70 time babyyy (handin those out like Oprah)
Bingo.
This is an interesting point. Do any bike companies hop factories often?
The RMU example given in skis would be their third distinct factory in ~10 years. They’ve been built by Utopie in Quebec, Åre Skidfabrik in Sweden, and now I guess the Blizzard factory.
Could bike companies easily do something similar or does that not happen as much?
but they have high value bikes. 1500 chf alu gravel bike with grx, 2500 chf carbon gravel bike with carbon wheels and grx, that’s what selling and they can offer it at d2c prices at the lbs.
You can kind of factories hop with bikes if you switch materials or during a massive design language switch. And most frame manufacturer only do one type of materials. So if your bike brand have both Alu and Carbon bike, then you have 2 different frame manufacturer and most likely a third one for lower end alu frame like kids bikes and simple budget hardtail.
There are some frame manufacturer and assembler that have multiple factories in different countries to cater to different price point and also flexibility for tariff purpose but in counterpart that quality varies greatly between the factories.
Kenstone is one good example, they have 2 factories, one in Taiwan and the other in Vietnam. In Taiwan they do carbon manufacturing and assembly and in Vietnam they only do assembly.
Specialized and Accell were the ones banging the "invest invest invest" drum in that article. Specialized's "problems" have been documented here, but Accel haven't escaped unscathed: https://www.bike-eu.com/50513/accell-group-to-close-dutch-factory-and-c…
Accell and their brands here in the states feel like they are lacking direction.. With Redline and Diamondback they could be doing really well with the bmx nostalgia/ big wheel bmx going on.. Diamondback showed some promising mountain bikes, but they never seem to have much..
Looks like I misread the TSMC part then - it is at least half a step in front of everybody else and I am wondering what that will mean for semiconductor manufacturing. It kinda looks like we're heading towards a monopoly since it's become so capital intensive and requires scale to make it worthwhile to develop the processes at all. After all, the darling of manufacturing of ~20 years ago, Intel, looks like is sliding into irrelevancy. And that's kinda what I was aiming at (wrongfully apparently) regarding bikes vs. semiconductors - the advantage TMSC has over the competition at the sharp end.
The result of all these companies gladly telling that they use TSMC is that people actually know of TSMC, but I bet most people will have a hard time naming at least one other pure-play or otherwise semiconductor company, while there are still tons of them around the world. They are just not as sexy as TSMC is with all the Apple, AMD and Nvidia chip production. Hell Infineon has some fabs right across the border from me in Austria for some of their products. And as you said, it's kinda the same thing with bikes, most manufacturers are in fact pure-play manufacturers. Hell, I'm a lot more into bikes these days than I am into technology, yet I can probably name more semiconductor manufacturing companies than I can bike frame manufacturers.
I'm all for lifting the veil. If nothing else, somebody thinking about starting a company might have an easier time finding potential contractors vs. the state that we have now. Now it's either someone who knows the scene, following all the news to the t to filter out every little scrap of information casually thrown into an article or a video and trying to make a rolodex from it or trying your luck with the likes of Taiwantrade.
As for skis, there have been a few brands marketing their products as developed (and even made) in so-and-so (think US Rockies), when in fact at least some of their products are made less than 5 kms away from where I'm typing this without even a mention of it. Granted, it's possible such companies use multiple manufacturers across their ski lineup. Having an overview of that might be fun too
Quick update on the YT situation. I’ll just leave this here to help straighten out the company’s reputation a little. I’ve always had a soft spot for the brand, since I’ve only ever met great people working there. I’m sure they never intended to rip anyone off and probably tried to avoid insolvency until the very last moment. Anyway, seems like they’ve worked out a solution so that everyone who ordered in the flash sale either gets their bike at the promised discount or their money back:
(Translated from German forums)
Subject: Your YT order update
Dear [Name],
Unusual times sometimes call for unusual measures. Although we are legally not in a position to fulfill or refund orders placed before the initiation of the restructuring process, we were determined to find a solution for you in order to fulfill your order xxxxx.
We are very happy to finally be able to offer you this solution. We are sorry it took so long — this path required approval from several parties, including the creditors’ committee, which unfortunately took some time.
Please understand that we can only ship your bike under the condition that the statutory 14-day right of withdrawal does not apply. Of course, your warranty and guarantee rights remain fully intact.
In the coming days, you will receive further information from us regarding your order, including the delivery date.
Once again, we sincerely apologize for the long wait and the inconvenience caused, and we are all the more excited that your bike will soon be on its way to you.
Ride on and enjoy your new YT!
Your YT Industries Team
I hope this came across better in the original German.
Can anyone confirm their team truck got repossessed?
Notably, the email does not actually say what the solution is, just implies what it is. I sure hope its 1:1 exactly what each person ordered, I wonder if there's going to be stock issues for some on the basis that they held back all the ordered bikes but maybe the receiver (or equivalent) continued to sell them If no, then credit where it's due, they're trying to do the right thing and got caught in a regulatory insolvency scheme. If yes... then back to the big reputational damage even though they may not have had control.
I can only guess what the 14-day right of withdrawal is as I'm not licensed to practice in Europe/Germany/Austria.
It's still just reactive to the situation they put their customers in by running a flash sale, and getting people stuck in legal limbo as creditors. Thanks to the team figuring it out, those employees likely had nothing to do with any of the decisions and they are truly just trying to make it work out for the riders.
afaik „Please understand that we can only ship your bike under the condition that the statutory 14-day right of withdrawal does not apply.“ is illegal in Germany and the whole EU. You can’t exclude certain customer rights with such a clause.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leokokkonen_polebicycles-investmentopportunity-madeinfinland-activity-7370734775751499776-DMyf/
Hmmm, that's a tough one. Should I invest in YT or Pole? Can someone remind me which owner has the best reputation before I start piling the cash in? 🤣
All you have to do is DM him on Linkedin and you're in!
“Bike company investment” is quite the oxymoron.
Best way to be a millionaire in the bike industry is to start as a billionaire
Pretty sure they’ve figured the legal part of this out before addressing the customers. Especially since there must be a bunch of lawyers involved at this point monitoring every move. I would assume this is a special situation because, as per law, they would not be required to deliver the bikes at all as they are part of the insolvency estate
Fernabsatzgesetz says no…
They can try, but if a customer wants to return his bike during the 14 days window they can do absolutely nothing about it.
Unpopular opinion: but if we get the all-clear from them, YT's brand will be just fine. 10 years later people are dealing with persistent inflation across every product category (aka YT buyers) so low price matters much more than in 2015. People let insurance companies install trackers in their car to save $20/mo for safe driving, and they'll still want to save $1k+ on a bike “in this economy”. Also, we all probably know a few people who can actually afford a Santa Cruz but bought a YT (both pre and post covid inflation)
If YT survives we’ll still see tons more YTs than Nukeproofs on the trails in the US.
Correct, this is a law valid for all online - remote shopping in EU. Some coutries extends this period to 30 days, but 15 is minimum allowed within EU.
Exceptions exists but I cannot see how YT might fall into one of these: more info here
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
When did Ibis decide that it was the right time to be a "yeti" premium-priced bike company? Checking their new XTR and XT builds on Ripmo, 10K or 8.3K is definitely above anything I would consider a good price for Ibis. I would be really curious to know how they are doing.
This might be getting a little off topic but in Australia it's an offence to even misrepresent a customer's statutory rights under our consumer law. For example: telling a prospective customer that their rights don't apply even before they've purchased anything... It is similar in Germany/Europe?
those are di2 builds, not mechanical XT/XTR.
(also considering ibis only runs factory suspension, i've always seen them as an affordable version of yetis/pivots)
Also, the hd6 frames are on sale, i think they have decent value
aren't xtr/xt di2 only with the latest versions (m8/9200)? I know m8/9100 are still available, but IIRC moving forward XT & XTR will be di2 only
As mentioned, those are the new Di2 kits. Plus it has factory suspension, premium Bike Yoke dropper, and a white label carbon bar. Not amazing value, but not bad.
What!! They're killing off SLX and now mechanical XT? Those are two of the best groupsets out there. The best value drivetrain is SLX levers, calipers, derailleur, cassette, and chain, with XT shifter, with a DUB GX alloy crankset. Ubiquitous parts, great functionality, easily serviceable, and doesn't break the bank.
Recently nabbed a Ripmo for a song with the mechanical XT build and the only thing I may swap out at some point would be the wheels and that's just to have a lighter set for less intensive forays. I am wondering how they're positioned though as they (like most every other so called Dentist Brand) are seemingly on sale damn near everywhere. Not to the same extent as a good number of models from Santa/Yeti/Pivot, but you can definitely find heavy price cuts easily.
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