It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won...
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won on mid pivot. But I do agree things are settling around the mid pivot area where you can get the best of both worlds.
We could go back in time and try this dual pivot? Low speed impacts the axle moves vertically and high speed impacts the axle moved backwards
Wouldn't this need an idler and have really weird pedalling characteristics?
Knolly wanted to sue Intense for less than this a few years ago, apparently they patented the seat tube-downtube intersection at a specific angle... we'll see...
Knolly wanted to sue Intense for less than this a few years ago, apparently they patented the seat tube-downtube intersection at a specific angle... we'll see what they do with this one 😬
"This patent describes a rear suspension system with at least four inches of travel and a seat tube that can accommodate a dropper seat post with at least four inches of travel. The patent also states that the seat tube intersects the downtube above the bottom bracket at an angle between 50° and 75° relative to the horizontal."
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won...
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won on mid pivot. But I do agree things are settling around the mid pivot area where you can get the best of both worlds.
We could go back in time and try this dual pivot? Low speed impacts the axle moves vertically and high speed impacts the axle moved backwards
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won...
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won on mid pivot. But I do agree things are settling around the mid pivot area where you can get the best of both worlds.
We could go back in time and try this dual pivot? Low speed impacts the axle moves vertically and high speed impacts the axle moved backwards
The idea of the variable path was what he was going for, but not the high and low speed shaft movements doing different of axle paths. It was called VST. I’ve talked to Frank about this and even asked him about making one for me. He said the axle path almost looked like a football shape, it would move backwards up and then forward and you can pump it railroad track and just generate speed.
This is an old image and screen grab I found off of a forum from the early 2010s
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won...
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won on mid pivot. But I do agree things are settling around the mid pivot area where you can get the best of both worlds.
We could go back in time and try this dual pivot? Low speed impacts the axle moves vertically and high speed impacts the axle moved backwards
All this talk of "variable axle path" reminds me of my old Magic Link coilair. A 190mm travel bike that pedals like a 140mm bike, geo would vary too. It slackened out when on the brakes, rear wheel moved truly rearward on bumps, it was a great bike for 2010. The 455mm chainstays made it faster than my DH bike too (455 was huge for that time and 26 inch wheels). Too bad it was a Kona so I cracked two of them.
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won...
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won on mid pivot. But I do agree things are settling around the mid pivot area where you can get the best of both worlds.
We could go back in time and try this dual pivot? Low speed impacts the axle moves vertically and high speed impacts the axle moved backwards
All this talk of "variable axle path" reminds me of my old Magic Link coilair. A 190mm travel bike that pedals like a 140mm bike, geo...
All this talk of "variable axle path" reminds me of my old Magic Link coilair. A 190mm travel bike that pedals like a 140mm bike, geo would vary too. It slackened out when on the brakes, rear wheel moved truly rearward on bumps, it was a great bike for 2010. The 455mm chainstays made it faster than my DH bike too (455 was huge for that time and 26 inch wheels). Too bad it was a Kona so I cracked two of them.
Was the little secondary spring damped or free? (Is that a damping adjustment knob sticking out the front?)
Even if this discussion is not really either rumour or innovation, the last couple of pages are fascinating and one of the reasons I subscribe to the thread.
-Carbon Fiber DH Bikes -High pivot DH Bikes (w idler) -Dual shock high pivot DH bikes (variable axle path) -Lugged design so he can make changes quickly -29" wheels on DH bikes (2004 ish)
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won...
It’s hard to say what’s “better”, Jackson just won 4 in a row on low pivot, Gracey won 2 on high pivot, Max in junior won on mid pivot. But I do agree things are settling around the mid pivot area where you can get the best of both worlds.
We could go back in time and try this dual pivot? Low speed impacts the axle moves vertically and high speed impacts the axle moved backwards
All this talk of "variable axle path" reminds me of my old Magic Link coilair. A 190mm travel bike that pedals like a 140mm bike, geo...
All this talk of "variable axle path" reminds me of my old Magic Link coilair. A 190mm travel bike that pedals like a 140mm bike, geo would vary too. It slackened out when on the brakes, rear wheel moved truly rearward on bumps, it was a great bike for 2010. The 455mm chainstays made it faster than my DH bike too (455 was huge for that time and 26 inch wheels). Too bad it was a Kona so I cracked two of them.
Was the little secondary spring damped or free? (Is that a damping adjustment knob sticking out the front?)Even if this discussion is not really either rumour...
Was the little secondary spring damped or free? (Is that a damping adjustment knob sticking out the front?)
Even if this discussion is not really either rumour or innovation, the last couple of pages are fascinating and one of the reasons I subscribe to the thread.
I think the spring was only there to return the link to the "normal" position, and the dial was preload to tune the crossover point. The idea was when descending the link moved backwards to make a longer travel/more progressive linkage, then when you started pedalling the chain tension would pull it forwards back in to the high/steep position. I think a bit like canyon shapeshifter but automatic
After hearing Team Robot mention this bike during the Podium video, I want a Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 with modern geometry and 29in wheels.. I had one and I loved it.. Especially since the linkage looked like it came out of the Pro Circuit catalog.. Replaced the 5th Element with a Romic (The ROCO wasn't available yet..) and added the floating brake arm... It was a plow monster.. About 10 years ago I saw the bike.. A friend of a coworker bought it off the guy i sold it too..
Alex Morgan was WAY ahead of his time. When I see all these pics from the past I am still amazed that even with so many creative smart dudes working on all this stuff it still took us so long to get to the modern geo we have today. Look at the HTA on that bike! There was barely anyone riding carbon like that in the 90's and he was makin those bikes himself. Alex was such an interesting dude. I hope he has continued to be so productive.
one of the best things about todays modern age is how you can buy an freakin amazing bike that is not much different than a factory team bike for not even all that much money- and now with unprotected riders at the world cup DH's we are seeing some day job dudes mixing it up again prime time on the weekends in the summer. Enduro seems to level out the equipment advantages even more.
After hearing Team Robot mention this bike during the Podium video, I want a Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 with modern geometry and 29in wheels.. I had...
After hearing Team Robot mention this bike during the Podium video, I want a Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 with modern geometry and 29in wheels.. I had one and I loved it.. Especially since the linkage looked like it came out of the Pro Circuit catalog.. Replaced the 5th Element with a Romic (The ROCO wasn't available yet..) and added the floating brake arm... It was a plow monster.. About 10 years ago I saw the bike.. A friend of a coworker bought it off the guy i sold it too..
The geo was whack but the rear suspension was amazing (to my 17-18 year old self at least).
Also, mega points for the O.G. Intense sticky rubber shoes.
edited by sspomer - brand asked this post be removed.
Yes!!!!! Modularity!!!! I actually love this idea, and I love the idea that they have the Slash as a high pivot and Fuel as a low pivot, but both can be set up with similar travel numbers.
I think every bike brand will do this at least for their non-e-bikes pretty soon. I am honestly still amazed that there as many non-e-bike options as there are right now.
In germany 2024 non-motorised MTBs are merely about 3% of total non-e-bikes sold (if you compare it to the actual bike sales (E-Bikes + Non-E-Bikes) which is about 3,9 million bikes its even more evident - 1,3 %). In total numbers thats about 54.000 MTBs (over all makes and MTB types). Thats cargobike terretory - lol
The carbon version actually looks sick with those paint jobs 👀
I thought the last gen Trek Fuel EX-e looked better than the non-e version last time as well tbh. The EX-e looks a bit more resolved around the BB area where the EX has an empty space that doesn't seem to serve any real purpose.
I think every bike brand will do this at least for their non-e-bikes pretty soon. I am honestly still amazed that there as many non-e-bike options...
I think every bike brand will do this at least for their non-e-bikes pretty soon. I am honestly still amazed that there as many non-e-bike options as there are right now.
In germany 2024 non-motorised MTBs are merely about 3% of total non-e-bikes sold (if you compare it to the actual bike sales (E-Bikes + Non-E-Bikes) which is about 3,9 million bikes its even more evident - 1,3 %). In total numbers thats about 54.000 MTBs (over all makes and MTB types). Thats cargobike terretory - lol
I think every bike brand will do this at least for their non-e-bikes pretty soon. I am honestly still amazed that there as many non-e-bike options...
I think every bike brand will do this at least for their non-e-bikes pretty soon. I am honestly still amazed that there as many non-e-bike options as there are right now.
In germany 2024 non-motorised MTBs are merely about 3% of total non-e-bikes sold (if you compare it to the actual bike sales (E-Bikes + Non-E-Bikes) which is about 3,9 million bikes its even more evident - 1,3 %). In total numbers thats about 54.000 MTBs (over all makes and MTB types). Thats cargobike terretory - lol
Am I the only one thinking this can't be profitable over the long term?
I'm pretty sure both Trek and Specialized have said they're aiming to reduce the number of SKUs they sell. It already looks like the Kenevo and Kenevo SL, for example, won't be getting updated. And the Stumpjumper 15 has taken the place of both the regular Stumpy and the Evo, I think we will see more of this consolidation as we go on.
I think this could lead to a market where small, boutique brands continue to make limited runs of high-end bikes, while the mid-range options become more scarce as the economics get difficult for the bigger companies.
It reminds me of something I read once: the engineering challenge of a VW Golf is much bigger than a Bugatti Veyron. Making something that is both good and affordable to manufacture is far more difficult than throwing the kitchen sink at a small run of incredibly expensive cars that will only ever be bought by a select few. It’s easy to make something awesome without a price target; the real challenge is making something great that’s also affordable. Probably similar to how there are still plenty of sports cars in the high end but a very limited range of mid to low end sports cars as it just isn't an easy market to compete in.
Wouldn't this need an idler and have really weird pedalling characteristics?
Make the seattube more than 76°, do not infringe the patent and do not have a stupidly slack seat tube. Win win.
There's a throwback, I always wanted to try a splinter
or whatever this was going to be (similar to FTW above)
38mm ERA 😴
ah yes, the sinister passion. fukkin' shame that bike never saw the light of day.
before we get sidetracked, here's a classic episode of the Inside Line that interviews FTW, and the passion is a topic of discussion.
https://podcasts.apple.com/il/podcast/frank-the-welder-the-inside-line-…
speculation or fact? Love my ERA fork, only way 38mm would make sense to me it would be for an ebike specific fork.
The idea of the variable path was what he was going for, but not the high and low speed shaft movements doing different of axle paths. It was called VST. I’ve talked to Frank about this and even asked him about making one for me. He said the axle path almost looked like a football shape, it would move backwards up and then forward and you can pump it railroad track and just generate speed.
This is an old image and screen grab I found off of a forum from the early 2010s
One of my faves the 1998 Scott FX-DH/High Octance
All this talk of "variable axle path" reminds me of my old Magic Link coilair. A 190mm travel bike that pedals like a 140mm bike, geo would vary too. It slackened out when on the brakes, rear wheel moved truly rearward on bumps, it was a great bike for 2010. The 455mm chainstays made it faster than my DH bike too (455 was huge for that time and 26 inch wheels). Too bad it was a Kona so I cracked two of them.
Was the little secondary spring damped or free? (Is that a damping adjustment knob sticking out the front?)
Even if this discussion is not really either rumour or innovation, the last couple of pages are fascinating and one of the reasons I subscribe to the thread.
From PB IG Story; Best photo of the Commencal TMD. Looks like preload adjustment maybe? The mount says “KODST”
Blast from the past;
Things Alex Morgan was working on in 2001 (ish)
-Carbon Fiber DH Bikes
-High pivot DH Bikes (w idler)
-Dual shock high pivot DH bikes (variable axle path)
-Lugged design so he can make changes quickly
-29" wheels on DH bikes (2004 ish)
I think the spring was only there to return the link to the "normal" position, and the dial was preload to tune the crossover point. The idea was when descending the link moved backwards to make a longer travel/more progressive linkage, then when you started pedalling the chain tension would pull it forwards back in to the high/steep position. I think a bit like canyon shapeshifter but automatic
Might be a proof of concept, but combined with the plastic mount and zip ties I do wonder how effective that would be as a TMD....
Conspiracy theory: it's just filled with sand and works like a deadblow.
After hearing Team Robot mention this bike during the Podium video, I want a Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 with modern geometry and 29in wheels.. I had one and I loved it.. Especially since the linkage looked like it came out of the Pro Circuit catalog.. Replaced the 5th Element with a Romic (The ROCO wasn't available yet..) and added the floating brake arm... It was a plow monster.. About 10 years ago I saw the bike.. A friend of a coworker bought it off the guy i sold it too..
Alex Morgan was WAY ahead of his time. When I see all these pics from the past I am still amazed that even with so many creative smart dudes working on all this stuff it still took us so long to get to the modern geo we have today. Look at the HTA on that bike! There was barely anyone riding carbon like that in the 90's and he was makin those bikes himself. Alex was such an interesting dude. I hope he has continued to be so productive.
one of the best things about todays modern age is how you can buy an freakin amazing bike that is not much different than a factory team bike for not even all that much money- and now with unprotected riders at the world cup DH's we are seeing some day job dudes mixing it up again prime time on the weekends in the summer. Enduro seems to level out the equipment advantages even more.
Just noticed Dakota is off the Yoshimura prototype clip in pedals back on to Mallets.
Looks interesting. Would like to see 38mm stanchions and a fully once piece CSU.
Common sand? Don't be such a peasant. Surely it's lead shot.
The geo was whack but the rear suspension was amazing (to my 17-18 year old self at least).
Also, mega points for the O.G. Intense sticky rubber shoes.
edited by sspomer - brand asked this post be removed.
Yes!!!!! Modularity!!!! I actually love this idea, and I love the idea that they have the Slash as a high pivot and Fuel as a low pivot, but both can be set up with similar travel numbers.
I think every bike brand will do this at least for their non-e-bikes pretty soon. I am honestly still amazed that there as many non-e-bike options as there are right now.
In germany 2024 non-motorised MTBs are merely about 3% of total non-e-bikes sold (if you compare it to the actual bike sales (E-Bikes + Non-E-Bikes) which is about 3,9 million bikes its even more evident - 1,3 %). In total numbers thats about 54.000 MTBs (over all makes and MTB types). Thats cargobike terretory - lol
Source ZIV
Am I the only one thinking this can't be profitable over the long term?
The carbon version actually looks sick with those paint jobs 👀
I thought the last gen Trek Fuel EX-e looked better than the non-e version last time as well tbh. The EX-e looks a bit more resolved around the BB area where the EX has an empty space that doesn't seem to serve any real purpose.
Germany is not a good example in that respect
I'm pretty sure both Trek and Specialized have said they're aiming to reduce the number of SKUs they sell. It already looks like the Kenevo and Kenevo SL, for example, won't be getting updated. And the Stumpjumper 15 has taken the place of both the regular Stumpy and the Evo, I think we will see more of this consolidation as we go on.
I think this could lead to a market where small, boutique brands continue to make limited runs of high-end bikes, while the mid-range options become more scarce as the economics get difficult for the bigger companies.
It reminds me of something I read once: the engineering challenge of a VW Golf is much bigger than a Bugatti Veyron. Making something that is both good and affordable to manufacture is far more difficult than throwing the kitchen sink at a small run of incredibly expensive cars that will only ever be bought by a select few. It’s easy to make something awesome without a price target; the real challenge is making something great that’s also affordable. Probably similar to how there are still plenty of sports cars in the high end but a very limited range of mid to low end sports cars as it just isn't an easy market to compete in.
Are we a good example for anything lol? Is it really that different in other european countries? Could be, would be good for the non-motorised MTB.