MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR US
5/19/2025 8:17am

Gotta agree... It's got a serial number and it's in the system.. Seems likely that production is underway and will be released sooner than later..

DylanJM wrote:
It still says prototype on the Fox page. I imagine everything gets a serial and data page whether it gets to production or not. I have to...

It still says prototype on the Fox page. I imagine everything gets a serial and data page whether it gets to production or not. 

I have to say I find it an odd choice from Fox to go the usd route. I feel this will most likely be a limited qty thing rather than full blown offering to replace the 38.

krabo83 wrote:

i‘m 99,9% confident that the podium USD fork won‘t replace the 38 and will just run besides it, probably even limited.

I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would anyone want a 170mm plus 38 IF (and big if) this usd fork can be had for the same price as the current 38. The dual chamber air spring honestly is probably as big of an update as the chassis too. I bet that will find its way to the 38 regardless. 

Hub wise, like zuestman said above I have no serious concern that the 20mm axle bit will hurt its acceptance at all. Most hubs are convertible and honestly I'd rather have to adapt down to a 15mm axle on a 20mm hub then vise versa. 

2
1
seanfisseli
Posts
568
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Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
5/19/2025 8:47am
DylanJM wrote:
It still says prototype on the Fox page. I imagine everything gets a serial and data page whether it gets to production or not. I have to...

It still says prototype on the Fox page. I imagine everything gets a serial and data page whether it gets to production or not. 

I have to say I find it an odd choice from Fox to go the usd route. I feel this will most likely be a limited qty thing rather than full blown offering to replace the 38.

krabo83 wrote:

i‘m 99,9% confident that the podium USD fork won‘t replace the 38 and will just run besides it, probably even limited.

Cougar797 wrote:
I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would...

I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would anyone want a 170mm plus 38 IF (and big if) this usd fork can be had for the same price as the current 38. The dual chamber air spring honestly is probably as big of an update as the chassis too. I bet that will find its way to the 38 regardless. 

Hub wise, like zuestman said above I have no serious concern that the 20mm axle bit will hurt its acceptance at all. Most hubs are convertible and honestly I'd rather have to adapt down to a 15mm axle on a 20mm hub then vise versa. 

Fox knows that if you really want an USD fork you will deal with the hub issue one way or another. Can’t imagine an actual Fox USD fork customer saying “oh no nevermind I am obsessed with my current front hub and I am also too poor for a wheel build Sad

18
5/19/2025 8:57am

Maybe we need the Foes hub again... Didn't that thing use a 30mm axle?

4
5/19/2025 9:38am

Not sure if the lower shock mount is replaceable for adjustment or if it has movement during travel?

IMG 6709.jpeg?VersionId=t4T
3
5/19/2025 9:47am
Not sure if the lower shock mount is replaceable for adjustment or if it has movement during travel?

Not sure if the lower shock mount is replaceable for adjustment or if it has movement during travel?

IMG 6709.jpeg?VersionId=t4T

Wasn't that supposed to be a changeable weight system, or am I mixing up my tech rumors?

2
5/19/2025 9:51am
Not sure if the lower shock mount is replaceable for adjustment or if it has movement during travel?

Not sure if the lower shock mount is replaceable for adjustment or if it has movement during travel?

IMG 6709.jpeg?VersionId=t4T

Wasn't that supposed to be a changeable weight system, or am I mixing up my tech rumors?

From the other site...

p5pb28160037
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krabo83
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Location
AT
5/19/2025 9:54am Edited Date/Time 5/19/2025 9:55am
Cougar797 wrote:
I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would...

I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would anyone want a 170mm plus 38 IF (and big if) this usd fork can be had for the same price as the current 38. The dual chamber air spring honestly is probably as big of an update as the chassis too. I bet that will find its way to the 38 regardless. 

Hub wise, like zuestman said above I have no serious concern that the 20mm axle bit will hurt its acceptance at all. Most hubs are convertible and honestly I'd rather have to adapt down to a 15mm axle on a 20mm hub then vise versa. 

wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to pedal around all day!

and after seeing what fox was able to achive with the new 36 (lighter & stiffer), i‘m confident that the next 38 will also manage those tasks.

3
Suns_PSD
Posts
362
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10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
5/19/2025 10:23am

I am imagining that USD fork on a full power e-bike. If it's truly amazing in performance, even though I'm totally weight weenie, I'd eat 2800 grams or something once I get a full power.

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1
5/19/2025 10:33am

Maybe we need the Foes hub again... Didn't that thing use a 30mm axle?

Specialized had a 25mm axle on the E-150. Dual crown enduro fork before enduro was a "thing".

p4pb7948696.jpg?VersionId=k ejH66YQS.efrkvnReaxwDLMD0QN

 

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slimshady
Posts
146
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9/16/2011
Location
AR
5/19/2025 11:00am

Maybe we need the Foes hub again... Didn't that thing use a 30mm axle?

Specialized had a 25mm axle on the E-150. Dual crown enduro fork before enduro was a "thing". 

Specialized had a 25mm axle on the E-150. Dual crown enduro fork before enduro was a "thing".

p4pb7948696.jpg?VersionId=k ejH66YQS.efrkvnReaxwDLMD0QN

 

Maverick forks had a 27mm axle that tapered to 24mm at the dropouts:

 

https://www.leelikesbikes.com/maverick-sc32-fork.html

4
Primoz
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Location
SI
5/19/2025 11:59am

Since the 15 mm standard proliferated, the majority of hubs are native 15 mm (or QR if convertible) and there are less and less 20 mm compatible hubs out there.

As for the Orbea, it's both, a weight carrying system and the lower shock mount. Probably there to be able to adapt it to less travel (shorter ETE shock) given the rumors that this is basically a new Rallon.

4
sethimus
Posts
881
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Location
CH
5/19/2025 12:47pm
Cougar797 wrote:
I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would...

I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would anyone want a 170mm plus 38 IF (and big if) this usd fork can be had for the same price as the current 38. The dual chamber air spring honestly is probably as big of an update as the chassis too. I bet that will find its way to the 38 regardless. 

Hub wise, like zuestman said above I have no serious concern that the 20mm axle bit will hurt its acceptance at all. Most hubs are convertible and honestly I'd rather have to adapt down to a 15mm axle on a 20mm hub then vise versa. 

krabo83 wrote:
wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to...

wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to pedal around all day!

and after seeing what fox was able to achive with the new 36 (lighter & stiffer), i‘m confident that the next 38 will also manage those tasks.

why can’t they make it light? intend can…

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5
Nobble
Posts
227
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Location
Lakewood, CO US
5/19/2025 2:26pm
Cougar797 wrote:
I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would...

I'd say that will be very much determined by performance benefit (or not) over the 38. If its suppler and has better wheel tracking why would anyone want a 170mm plus 38 IF (and big if) this usd fork can be had for the same price as the current 38. The dual chamber air spring honestly is probably as big of an update as the chassis too. I bet that will find its way to the 38 regardless. 

Hub wise, like zuestman said above I have no serious concern that the 20mm axle bit will hurt its acceptance at all. Most hubs are convertible and honestly I'd rather have to adapt down to a 15mm axle on a 20mm hub then vise versa. 

krabo83 wrote:
wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to...

wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to pedal around all day!

and after seeing what fox was able to achive with the new 36 (lighter & stiffer), i‘m confident that the next 38 will also manage those tasks.

sethimus wrote:

why can’t they make it light? intend can…

Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.

If it performs well nobody will give two shits what it weighs.

16
2
seanfisseli
Posts
568
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4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
5/19/2025 2:45pm
krabo83 wrote:
wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to...

wait till we see the weight of the USD fork compared to the 38, cause jordi stated that it‘s heavy and probably nothing you want to pedal around all day!

and after seeing what fox was able to achive with the new 36 (lighter & stiffer), i‘m confident that the next 38 will also manage those tasks.

sethimus wrote:

why can’t they make it light? intend can…

Nobble wrote:
Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.If it performs well nobody will give two shits what...

Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.

If it performs well nobody will give two shits what it weighs.

People are riding 42lb enduro bikes and love them. Lightweight bikes were a curse to the sport. So many performance compromises in pursuit of light bikes.

12
1
5/19/2025 2:49pm
sethimus wrote:

why can’t they make it light? intend can…

Nobble wrote:
Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.If it performs well nobody will give two shits what...

Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.

If it performs well nobody will give two shits what it weighs.

People are riding 42lb enduro bikes and love them. Lightweight bikes were a curse to the sport. So many performance compromises in pursuit of light bikes.

My Spire with a dual crown weighs more than my tr11 but obviously pedals much better.  Might even weight more with a 38 instead of a z1.  But I wouldn't mind if both bikes worked as well and weighed less!

2
thejake
Posts
89
Joined
6/16/2018
Location
Carnation, WA US
5/19/2025 2:59pm
chriskief wrote:
From the other site...

From the other site...

p5pb28160037

Would be a cool feature if you can select different weights or just a rubberized guard if you want as light as possible.  I could see a clean adjustable weight system being a feature on bikes in the future.  Considering how long guys have been zip tie/duct taping weights their bikes for certain tracks I’m surprised no company has done this sooner. 

1
5/19/2025 3:44pm
roost66 wrote:
From a buyers perspective, 20mm axle sucks, as DH bikes seem to be fading, and the popularity of DH hubs with it.  I’m assuming it has...

From a buyers perspective, 20mm axle sucks, as DH bikes seem to be fading, and the popularity of DH hubs with it.  I’m assuming it has some serious upsides for stiffness etc. But most will need a new hub, which is like $100-200 + spokes and labor.  Worse if you have multiple bikes because they may no longer be swap able between bikes.  

Hope front hubs for life and luckily the list of 148 DH bikes is growing day by day. (Canyon, YT, Transition, GT, Forbidden, Spesh, Frameworks) Glad...

Hope front hubs for life and luckily the list of 148 DH bikes is growing day by day. (Canyon, YT, Transition, GT, Forbidden, Spesh, Frameworks) Glad the industry is having to cave a little on these incremental improvements that could end up robbing you of a day of riding if you don’t have backup parts. Very interested to see if the new Demo is still 148.

I reckon the new demo is gonna solve the 148 issue by using a 148 super-wide hub like the session is doing. In my eyes this...

I reckon the new demo is gonna solve the 148 issue by using a 148 super-wide hub like the session is doing. In my eyes this is exactly what specialized is up to rn. Only applies to the r2r builds they are going to release obviously.

I am unfamiliar with this, cam you explain? I thought the session was 157.

1
boozed
Posts
665
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Location
AU
5/19/2025 3:55pm
Primoz wrote:
But you also have a triangle connecting the rear wheel to the front or at least a single piece box section, not a bushinged tube in...

But you also have a triangle connecting the rear wheel to the front or at least a single piece box section, not a bushinged tube in tube arrangement where the two tubes can rotate one relative to the other. These details do wonders for stiffness. QED, 20 years ago it was completely normal to run a 20 mm axle in the front and a QR in the back. 

Jakub_G wrote:
Awesome you brought the qr in to equation, old qts had a higher clamping force than thru axles we run these days, essentially making dropouts and...

Awesome you brought the qr in to equation, old qts had a higher clamping force than thru axles we run these days, essentially making dropouts and steel axle one piece even though they were much smaller diameter (9mm at 100mm width vs 15mm at 110mm) I would guess they weren't much less stiff. One popular bike channel compared the two few years ago, don't remember his name but he was engineer and I think he worked with hambini on some videos.

2
Evil96
Posts
804
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Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
5/19/2025 8:04pm
Nobble wrote:
Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.If it performs well nobody will give two shits what...

Plenty of people are out there pedaling dual crown forks around or converting their forks to coil.

If it performs well nobody will give two shits what it weighs.

I’d give 3

Same reason while even for a 170 fork I wouldn’t pick a 38 or a zeb, I don’t need 300 extra grams in there giving me nothing more than a 36 would especially being not too heavy or a racer going fast af 

2
6
UfuS78
Posts
39
Joined
3/23/2014
Location
Bielsko PL
5/19/2025 10:28pm
Primoz wrote:
Since the 15 mm standard proliferated, the majority of hubs are native 15 mm (or QR if convertible) and there are less and less 20 mm...

Since the 15 mm standard proliferated, the majority of hubs are native 15 mm (or QR if convertible) and there are less and less 20 mm compatible hubs out there.

As for the Orbea, it's both, a weight carrying system and the lower shock mount. Probably there to be able to adapt it to less travel (shorter ETE shock) given the rumors that this is basically a new Rallon.

From what I’ve been able to find out—and judging by Orbea’s Instagram post—it’s more than certain that there’s a new Rallon coming.

There will be one DH version with Fox Factory suspension and a 225x75 shock, while the rest will likely be enduro-oriented, probably using a 205x65mm shock. I'm not sure whether the lower shock mount will be interchangeable or not.

5
Primoz
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Location
SI
5/20/2025 12:17am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2025 12:20am
Primoz wrote:
But you also have a triangle connecting the rear wheel to the front or at least a single piece box section, not a bushinged tube in...

But you also have a triangle connecting the rear wheel to the front or at least a single piece box section, not a bushinged tube in tube arrangement where the two tubes can rotate one relative to the other. These details do wonders for stiffness. QED, 20 years ago it was completely normal to run a 20 mm axle in the front and a QR in the back. 

Jakub_G wrote:
Awesome you brought the qr in to equation, old qts had a higher clamping force than thru axles we run these days, essentially making dropouts and...

Awesome you brought the qr in to equation, old qts had a higher clamping force than thru axles we run these days, essentially making dropouts and steel axle one piece even though they were much smaller diameter (9mm at 100mm width vs 15mm at 110mm) I would guess they weren't much less stiff. One popular bike channel compared the two few years ago, don't remember his name but he was engineer and I think he worked with hambini on some videos.

boozed wrote:

Like I said, QR through axles were not tested.

And like we discussed, for the stiffness we are looking for more axial clamping force does not necessarily mean more stiffness. Which means it's interesting Peak Torque missed this point as he's usually very good at engineering stuff (I do recommend watching his videos, though they are primarily road oriented). 

2
boozed
Posts
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Location
AU
5/20/2025 12:37am
Jakub_G wrote:
Awesome you brought the qr in to equation, old qts had a higher clamping force than thru axles we run these days, essentially making dropouts and...

Awesome you brought the qr in to equation, old qts had a higher clamping force than thru axles we run these days, essentially making dropouts and steel axle one piece even though they were much smaller diameter (9mm at 100mm width vs 15mm at 110mm) I would guess they weren't much less stiff. One popular bike channel compared the two few years ago, don't remember his name but he was engineer and I think he worked with hambini on some videos.

boozed wrote:
Primoz wrote:
Like I said, QR through axles were not tested.And like we discussed, for the stiffness we are looking for more axial clamping force does not necessarily...

Like I said, QR through axles were not tested.

And like we discussed, for the stiffness we are looking for more axial clamping force does not necessarily mean more stiffness. Which means it's interesting Peak Torque missed this point as he's usually very good at engineering stuff (I do recommend watching his videos, though they are primarily road oriented). 

FWIW I agree with all that, clamping force isn't the same as stiffness etc.  Just figured I could be helpful by dropping the link because I knew exactly which video it was.

2
Primoz
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5/20/2025 12:44am

Yeah, honestly I could have linked it too considering I was mentioning it and giving details about it... So thank you for that actually! 

2
cstone28
Posts
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Location
N/A, ON CA
5/20/2025 5:54am
Yes many factors with axle thickness can play a roll. The clamps make a giant change as well. The dorado going from 1 bolt upper to...

Yes many factors with axle thickness can play a roll. The clamps make a giant change as well. The dorado going from 1 bolt upper to 2 bolt upper added a lot of torsional rigidity.

IMG 6707.jpeg?VersionId=RGetYimUZ KtVppBk7aklcBHpl.0IMG 6708

Who makes this 20mm to 15mm adapter and is it Boxxer specific or do they make them for other forks? 

1
cstone28
Posts
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Location
N/A, ON CA
5/20/2025 6:48am
cstone28 wrote:

Who makes this 20mm to 15mm adapter and is it Boxxer specific or do they make them for other forks? 

Not the same but similar, this guy has options. 

https://www.ebay.com/str/jjpellc?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211

Thanks. I've been running Joe's setup on a DH38 lowered to 180mm with a 15mm axle for a year. He had an issue with the first gen that he was absolutely amazing about owning up to when I thought it was me who made the mistake / caused the problem. I wanted to buy a replacement part that I thought I broke and he sent me a new redesigned part for this year and I'll be giving it a go when I finally get a chance to use the big bike. I like the setup he came up with but was curious what else was out there and the post above looked very clean and robust. 

1
jonkranked
Posts
1188
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5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
5/20/2025 7:00am
Primoz wrote:
Since the 15 mm standard proliferated, the majority of hubs are native 15 mm (or QR if convertible) and there are less and less 20 mm...

Since the 15 mm standard proliferated, the majority of hubs are native 15 mm (or QR if convertible) and there are less and less 20 mm compatible hubs out there.

As for the Orbea, it's both, a weight carrying system and the lower shock mount. Probably there to be able to adapt it to less travel (shorter ETE shock) given the rumors that this is basically a new Rallon.

i'd agree that fewer companies are offering prebuilt wheels with 20mm hubs, and companies that are just getting into hubs (oneup) aren't offering 20mm.  but there are still plenty of 20mm hub options available:

king, hope, hadley, DT, i9, onyx, novatec, shimano, sram, sun ringle, reverse, e13, project 321, i'm sure there's more. 

2
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
Fantasy
5/20/2025 7:16am

this is a race vid, but lots of tech with troy, jackson and reece from poland world cup DH

9
az2au
Posts
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10/19/2023
Location
Scottsdale, AZ US
Fantasy
5/20/2025 7:22am
cstone28 wrote:

Who makes this 20mm to 15mm adapter and is it Boxxer specific or do they make them for other forks? 

Freaky Nuts also makes them.  I'm considering put a Fox 40 on my A.170 for park use this season and ordered one of these for the conversion if I go that way.  The materials seem to be of high quality.  Compatible with Boxxer, Fox 40 and Rux38.

https://www.freakynuts.com

1
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