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Here's a Slayer prototype frame built in 2018 IIRC. I have another example of an earlier prototype built with a chip that allowed a low or mid-height main pivot. I'll have to fire up my external drive (cough I'm old..) to get a photo.
They are solid until they aren't, at least when it comes to Bernard Kerr's Phoenix prototype and production bikes and some Firebirds seen over at MTBR. That said, it seems like Pivot has a great warranty policy and CS to take care of customers/riders.
But was it publicly posted somewhere? Can it be prior art if it did not see the light of (public) day?
Thanks for sharing the proto images.
I had a quick scan of the patent, but not a thorough read. I wonder if the novel aspect they are claiming is the separate/distinct pivot points which we might consider to be unique and different from an adjustment of the location within a small range.
That Rocky Proto is somewhat similarish to the Trek and also the Nukeproof Giga which has an eccentric main pivot that can be adjusted to move the pivot location. The rocky has 4 (or maybe 5) positions , the Trek 3 or more within a range and the Nukeproof potentially infinite change between the min max, but realistically only 2 positions. In all cases the number of pivot locations is possibly infinite within the fixed range of the adjustment.
The vampire patent is more similar to the Lapierre bike, though with 3 rather than 2 positions. The patent may be enforceable for the 3 fixed positions they make a claim for, but not a variable adjustable position (within a set range) based on prior art.
I will try to carve out some time to read the patent application properly, rather than just guessing, I might be way off the mark here.
Looks like Actofive have a similar setup to the Trek, this bike was launched in October 2024 https://www.actofive.com/en/i-train
The warranty is lifetime of the product for the original owner. The problem I have with this is how is the lifetime of the product defined? One could argue that it is the fatigue life of the material for normal use in which case it completely depends on what criteria Pivot design the bikes to. Personally, I find lifetime warranties for the original owner a bit of a marketing gimmick and would much rather have a fixed 5-10 year, transferable warranty so it's completely clear and the next owner also has some cover.
Redalp also claim to have patented the floating idler (apologies for the link) https://www.pinkbike.com/u/Redalp/blog/Redalp-Downhill-Bikes-2012.html. I think this predates the i-track patent, which is a really broad piece of patent writing. I pretty sure there'll be a vehicle out there, like a full suss recumbent bike, that has an idler attached to a moving bar and would be considered prior art because it's just a logical step to make in a lot of scenarios.
Plus, lifetime often means "until we release the next iteration and run out of spares.", which can be significantly less than 10 years.
How has no one posted this yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63VIuPiX3CA
The Canefield (Vampire) patent seems to only mention the pivot points being on the seat tube. If you used dual links to create virtual pivot points, maybe you could sneak around this?
Or just be a European brand like lapierre and NGAF
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210380195A1/en
They also don't cover wear and tear or fatigue - just manufacturing defects which will almost always show up in the first few years at most so anything beyond 3-5 years isn't super useful. There will also be a whole new set of frame "standards" in 10 years so even if your bike does get replaced, the cost to assemble it again means you may as well just buy a new bike at that point.
Because it's a fat bike.
or because its a 5 year old video?
also, BITD i knew some trials guys that would bleed their hs33s with baby oil
How about snap?
"While Pivot’s precision-engineered bearings are designed to last, this program ensures riders are covered in the rare instance a replacement is needed."
Lol. Tell that to all the Pivot linkage bearings I replaced as a shop mechanic. Not saying they're worse than any other brand, but "rare instance" is pretty laughable. Nice of them to offer this now... tough luck for the owners who needed all the bearings in one or both links swapped in past years.
Fuck it, let's just go singlespeed with a tensioner and an expanding chainring.
https://youtu.be/xKzX-lIHsyU?si=AOQaPFuOg1OphWOV
This thread just spent how many pages arguing about why a racer is using this or that to silence their chainslap, put another feather in the cap of gearboxes for DH racing.
Yep! Gearboxes are THAT BAD that we'd rather put up with all the faffing with chains.
j/k. The truth is I've never ridden a gearbox and have nothing against them. I just like making jokes. I'm down to try one as soon as they end up on a bike that I'd be interested in buying, in a price range I want to hit, at a time I'm looking to buy one, and designed with my specific use case in mind.
Hot take.
Patents on suspension linkage designs "We'd be a lot cooler if we didn't"
Coolness doesn't matter, money does. This is capitalism after all, bike companies are meant to grow and create revenue. That they take that to the extreme, I agree.
Neko mentioned in the DHSE podcast he will be at a Fox product launch this weekend through next week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXhYyhhU-g
🤫
That's the XTR Race version, 12 speed, 10-45 cassette. The enduro one has a 10-51 cassette, and the four-pot calipers shown in the video.
That is just a video of another youtube hack hiding behind a mask and showing nothing but pictures that we have all already seen.
Its shit like Canfield getting upset that treks proto DH bike has bars of metal with a spring along with an idler mounted somewhere and an adjustable pivot point that makes me roll my eyes.
I have countless hairball linkage drawings that look super similar to this that I have just drawn up and looked at how they would perform for fun... I didn't steal his "idea" I arrived at that shit the same way anyone else would... I used my brain.
I understand how the industry works I just wish at times the industry could you know "be cooler" lol
Anyone ever try and patent Flex stay tech? Should I go do tht now?
Maybe compliance in general can be patented?
At the rate Shimano and SRAM patent stupid shit just to freeze each other out of future potential projects... I cant see why we can't patent "compliance"
It's a proprietary blend of vertical compliance and lateral stiffness.
You are not even allow to speak about compliance in a bicycle whitout bragging about how laterally stiff your BB area is 😉
"MTB Patent rumors and innovation"... Spring can't come soon enought, haha.
yea but is it artisanal?