MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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2/3/2025 11:07am
iceman2058 wrote:

With TiN coating...could it be coming to the MTB line? 🤩

Eae903 wrote:

Didn't RS do a TiN coating back in the 90s and early 2000s? I thought it wasn't durable enough and that's why it went away. 

HexonJuan wrote:

They did, but durability wasn't the issue. The surface was too smooth so had a tremendous amount of stiction. 

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

7
2/3/2025 1:33pm
parnifel wrote:

...still an Canyon though, same logo on the handlebar.

29 wrote:

Yup, why i posted it in tech rumors not team rumors. 

News strive testing? The spectral and the eebs all seem pretty up to date. 

mitch160 wrote:

if its a proto strive then theres no shapeshifter leaver so maybe another bike?

Gonna posit a Flight Attendant Shapeshifter, pair it with Flight Attendant suspension and a power meter crankset, that'd be a helluva race bike.

 

Thoughts?

2/3/2025 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 4:22am
Eae903 wrote:

Didn't RS do a TiN coating back in the 90s and early 2000s? I thought it wasn't durable enough and that's why it went away. 

HexonJuan wrote:

They did, but durability wasn't the issue. The surface was too smooth so had a tremendous amount of stiction. 

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

PVD can be a fickle pain in the butt even on steel and when it fails it peels and flakes off almost like paint. 

1
Carraig042
Posts
32
Joined
3/4/2013
Location
Jonesborough, TN US
2/3/2025 3:24pm
It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Steel stanchions.

 

Heard it here first.

3
1
whitesq
Posts
48
Joined
8/1/2014
Location
FC, CO US
2/3/2025 3:56pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2025 4:03pm
It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Carraig042 wrote:

Steel stanchions.

 

Heard it here first.

Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a bit more dull than the typical deep black anodized stock stanchions. DLC?

20240703 UCI DH WC LesGets SR36895

4
monarchmason
Posts
186
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Location
Nevada City, CA US
2/3/2025 5:07pm
Eae903 wrote:

Didn't RS do a TiN coating back in the 90s and early 2000s? I thought it wasn't durable enough and that's why it went away. 

HexonJuan wrote:

They did, but durability wasn't the issue. The surface was too smooth so had a tremendous amount of stiction. 

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about it… 

dolface
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Location
CA US
2/3/2025 5:09pm
HexonJuan wrote:

They did, but durability wasn't the issue. The surface was too smooth so had a tremendous amount of stiction. 

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about...

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about it… 

Titanium Nitride, it's essentially a very hard ceramic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

2
2/3/2025 5:54pm
It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Carraig042 wrote:

Steel stanchions.

 

Heard it here first.

I wouldn't object to that! Would be easier to make a strong/stiff fork at lower cost, plus steel is inherently lower friction and harder wearing than aluminium. Maybe not for everything but it could have its place in DH forks. Pressing a steel stanchion in to an alloy single crown could have a few issues I would guess

1
2/3/2025 6:02pm
It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about...

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about it… 

dolface wrote:

Titanium Nitride, it's essentially a very hard ceramic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

Yup probably one of the more common types of Physical Vapour Deposition which kind of squirts metal gas* on the part under vacuum. So its a thin coating applied over the top of the base metal, as opposed to something like anodising which transforms the outer surface in to an oxide layer with electricity and makes it harder that way. DLC is a similar process that applies a hard carbon layer instead, so the chemistry is a little different

 

*OK so a little more complicated than that

2
Jakub_G
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Location
SK
2/3/2025 10:42pm
HexonJuan wrote:

They did, but durability wasn't the issue. The surface was too smooth so had a tremendous amount of stiction. 

Fox on dhx2 had durability issues with TiN coating.On the other hand there are techniques to reduce stiction on very smooth surfaces that don't have pores.

2/4/2025 2:23am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 2:23am
LeSud wrote:
Loïc Testing Fox on Mandelieu DH Track

Loïc Testing Fox on Mandelieu DH TrackIMG 8494IMG 8495

That frame also looks a bit less luggy and a bit less tubular than it usually does too?

Lacanuck24 wrote:
It does look a little different. I know the pixels are bad but it really does look like there's a bend in the down tube and...

It does look a little different. I know the pixels are bad but it really does look like there's a bend in the down tube and possibly in the top tube by the seat tube interface that angles towards the pivot. Possibly the production model? Masterful pixelation? Or my eyes are still wonky from making cross-eyed faces for kids earlier today

bruni-bike

You can also see the entire damper which is not the case with the current prototype as it is more integrated

1
2/4/2025 4:26am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 4:27am
Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about...

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about it… 

dolface wrote:

Titanium Nitride, it's essentially a very hard ceramic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

Yup probably one of the more common types of Physical Vapour Deposition which kind of squirts metal gas* on the part under vacuum. So its a...

Yup probably one of the more common types of Physical Vapour Deposition which kind of squirts metal gas* on the part under vacuum. So its a thin coating applied over the top of the base metal, as opposed to something like anodising which transforms the outer surface in to an oxide layer with electricity and makes it harder that way. DLC is a similar process that applies a hard carbon layer instead, so the chemistry is a little different

 

*OK so a little more complicated than that

"OK so a little more complicated than that"

yes.

First you must perform the proper rituals to appease the machine spirits. 

After that it's kinda like powder coating, except with plasma. 

*still grossly oversimplified 

9
dolface
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Location
CA US
2/4/2025 6:39am

Other site has a first look on the new Pivot bike(s) Trailcat SL and LT.

At this point I'm just kind of in awe at their steadfast support of Super Boost...

17
amaranth
Posts
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10/19/2023
Location
Nutley, NJ US
2/4/2025 6:53am
dolface wrote:

At this point I'm just kind of in awe at their steadfast support of Super Boost...

I think they've pigeonholed themselves into it at this point - they don't want to piss off current Pivot owners by changing standards more than anything.

11
jonkranked
Posts
853
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
2/4/2025 6:53am

Other site has a first look on the new Pivot bike(s) Trailcat SL and LT.

dolface wrote:

At this point I'm just kind of in awe at their steadfast support of Super Boost...

maybe they overpurchased during covid and have a massive OEM stockpile of superboost hubs

9
TEAMROBOT
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
2/4/2025 8:27am
whitesq wrote:
Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a...

Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a bit more dull than the typical deep black anodized stock stanchions. DLC?

20240703 UCI DH WC LesGets SR36895

Adding unsprung mass is so hot right now

1
2/4/2025 8:31am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 8:31am
whitesq wrote:
Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a...

Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a bit more dull than the typical deep black anodized stock stanchions. DLC?

20240703 UCI DH WC LesGets SR36895

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Adding unsprung mass is so hot right now

'SPRUNG' mass if we're talking about the stanchions... 😉 ( /<pedantic mode> )

16
2/4/2025 8:35am

Atherton unveiling the new S.200 alloy DH bike, on course at Red Bull Hardline Tasmania this week:

gee.jpg?VersionId=GP3NFmXEn7rYfxVKcHqmrL6i YbelDG Hardline Tasmania 2025 S.200-1003 1  1DG Hardline Tasmania 2025 S.200-1004 1DG Hardline Tasmania 2025 S.200-1006
17
29
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174
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Location
AT
2/4/2025 9:34am

if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of the 60 mile range. just in case you want your balls to fall off.


 


 

10
1
2/4/2025 9:37am
29 wrote:
if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of...

if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of the 60 mile range. just in case you want your balls to fall off.


 


 

"The bike design for the person who would drive their bike out to a trailhead to pose for a photo on the hood of their small suv." - Henry Ford

25
sspomer
Posts
5001
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Location
Boise, ID US
2/4/2025 9:50am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 9:50am

@Dasf, haven't heard, but who knows what the lurking insiders here may know

5
jazza_wil
Posts
54
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5/10/2011
Location
whistler, BC CA
2/4/2025 11:03am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 11:12am
Nicolas M. wrote:

Looks like Bernard Kerr snapped his Phoenix frame at Hardline off the board cliff drop...

https://youtu.be/5Zi87e4V5UA?t=1193

Looks permanently bottomed out all the way around the berm. Maybe a shock bolt or something but something looks funky with the rear end 

IMG 0221 0
14
chriskief
Posts
439
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
2/4/2025 11:07am
Nicolas M. wrote:

Looks like Bernard Kerr snapped his Phoenix frame at Hardline off the board cliff drop...

https://youtu.be/5Zi87e4V5UA?t=1193

jazza_wil wrote:
Looks permanently bottomed out all the way around the berm. Maybe a shock bolt or something but something looks funky with the rear end 

Looks permanently bottomed out all the way around the berm. Maybe a shock bolt or something but something looks funky with the rear end 

IMG 0221 0

Drive side seat stay appears to have let go.

30
Primoz
Posts
3718
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
2/4/2025 11:08am

Blown shock maybe? Is he running air or coil?

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