MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

iceman2058 wrote:

This looks like a sleek implementation of a Tuned Mass Damper:

john_likes_bikes wrote:

I totally get the idea of what these are supposed to do but even they admit it's not a true damper. https://www.rimpactmtb.com/tmdIt seems to be...

I totally get the idea of what these are supposed to do but even they admit it's not a true damper. https://www.rimpactmtb.com/tmd

It seems to be just springs with no damper on the unit so it's a shake weight, any momentum in the weight "smoothing" the trail has an equal or greater opposite effect, right? It's basically a Canyon KIS but for a different purpose or a fork/shock with the damper removed... aka a pogo stick. 

Not hating, just trying to read through the marketing. 

 

DontWorryImAPilot wrote:

Yep. It's a shakeweight.A weight (or "mass") on a piston that can damp the intensity of the oscillations ("shakes") of the structure to which it's attached...

Yep. It's a shakeweight.

A weight (or "mass") on a piston that can damp the intensity of the oscillations ("shakes") of the structure to which it's attached. That damping can be tuned to target certain frequencies of oscillations.

That Wikipedia article Primoz mentioned is really informative. Here it is again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper

NY_Star wrote:

I believe they still are and you can assume most bikes that DW has a hand in the design and manufacturing are made in the same...

I believe they still are and you can assume most bikes that DW has a hand in the design and manufacturing are made in the same locations. 

https://www.importinfo.com/very-impressive-prospect-co-ltd

boozed wrote:

This is one of the stranger uses of a Sankey diagram I've seen...  What is it even saying?

tripo19 wrote:

Ok guys sorry, I'm late to the party, but I can't find any info about that Fox fork leak. Has anyone saved any photos or heard any...

Ok guys sorry, I'm late to the party, but I can't find any info about that Fox fork leak. 

Has anyone saved any photos or heard any rumors?

iceman2058 wrote:

Is Hope about to come out with a new version of the Tech brakes? This looks suspiciously like a bleed port, which may see the end...

Is Hope about to come out with a new version of the Tech brakes? This looks suspiciously like a bleed port, which may see the end of those messy open reservoir bleeds. Presumably if that's what it is, you'd just need to orient the lever downwards to ensure the bleed port is at the highest point (which would also allow any bubbles to flow around the internal membrane, which typically has a pretty intricate shape). Pic of Adam Brayton's bike on Hope's insta:

AvgMTBEnjoyer wrote:

Looks kinda like it, keen to see what it ends up being! They're also custom shorter levers by the looks of things, as the default ones...

Looks kinda like it, keen to see what it ends up being! They're also custom shorter levers by the looks of things, as the default ones don't have that kink in them.

AvgMTBEnjoyer wrote:

Looks kinda like it, keen to see what it ends up being! They're also custom shorter levers by the looks of things, as the default ones...

Looks kinda like it, keen to see what it ends up being! They're also custom shorter levers by the looks of things, as the default ones don't have that kink in them.

gibbon wrote:

I hope they make that lever an option. I love Hope stuff and really want Tech4's but i just can't get on with that lever shape...

I hope they make that lever an option. I love Hope stuff and really want Tech4's but i just can't get on with that lever shape (stupid I know).

AvgMTBEnjoyer wrote:

Looks kinda like it, keen to see what it ends up being! They're also custom shorter levers by the looks of things, as the default ones...

Looks kinda like it, keen to see what it ends up being! They're also custom shorter levers by the looks of things, as the default ones don't have that kink in them.

gibbon wrote:

I hope they make that lever an option. I love Hope stuff and really want Tech4's but i just can't get on with that lever shape...

I hope they make that lever an option. I love Hope stuff and really want Tech4's but i just can't get on with that lever shape (stupid I know).

DontWorryImAPilot wrote:

Yep. It's a shakeweight.A weight (or "mass") on a piston that can damp the intensity of the oscillations ("shakes") of the structure to which it's attached...

Yep. It's a shakeweight.

A weight (or "mass") on a piston that can damp the intensity of the oscillations ("shakes") of the structure to which it's attached. That damping can be tuned to target certain frequencies of oscillations.

That Wikipedia article Primoz mentioned is really informative. Here it is again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper

SteveClimber wrote:

Imagine the look on his face when he finds out people put gigantic shake weights in sky scrapers to mitigate earthquakes 

Primoz wrote:

I think it's actually used more to lower the swinging of the skyscraper because of wind loading. But yeah, the most widespread use is in skyscrapers. 

Roryb wrote:

Yes, we use mass dampers to control wind accelerations in skyscrapers.  They are basic shake weights suspended on springs. Slosh tanks are often used too. These...

Yes, we use mass dampers to control wind accelerations in skyscrapers.  They are basic shake weights suspended on springs. Slosh tanks are often used too. These are purely for occupancy comfort. 

They can be used for strength design but then they need to be active dampers to react to all frequencies. 

Because if this, they are rarely used for strength design and almost never used in seismic design (as no one knows what frequency earthquake the building will actually see). 

These shake weights will improve hand comfort but at the cost of bike playfulness. 

Etney wrote:

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.Ben Hildred is doing his climbing...

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.

Ben Hildred is doing his climbing challenge, where he climbs 10k feet a day, for 100 days, and I spotted him covering up the caliper on his latest story - Strange, because I thought he just ran regular Level Ultimate Stealth's - But went through his old stories from these past climbs, and managed to spot two pics of a caliper, that size-wise looks like a level, but it differs in shape. It also seems to say "Prototype" when you zoom in on phone. Pic quality here doesnt really translate though.

This challenge is probably a very good test for most of the components on his bike, so no wonder sram wants to torture test some brakes. He's also running the yet to be released new axs dropper. 

 

From his story today

Managed to see a pic with a text that looks to say "prototype" - You can also see that the side of the caliper is flat, compared to the current level brake which has a "ridge" in the side (see pic at bottom)

"SRAM" seems to be etched/laser engraved on top of the caliper

 

Current level ultimate caliper

Etney wrote:

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.Ben Hildred is doing his climbing...

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.

Ben Hildred is doing his climbing challenge, where he climbs 10k feet a day, for 100 days, and I spotted him covering up the caliper on his latest story - Strange, because I thought he just ran regular Level Ultimate Stealth's - But went through his old stories from these past climbs, and managed to spot two pics of a caliper, that size-wise looks like a level, but it differs in shape. It also seems to say "Prototype" when you zoom in on phone. Pic quality here doesnt really translate though.

This challenge is probably a very good test for most of the components on his bike, so no wonder sram wants to torture test some brakes. He's also running the yet to be released new axs dropper. 

 

From his story today

Managed to see a pic with a text that looks to say "prototype" - You can also see that the side of the caliper is flat, compared to the current level brake which has a "ridge" in the side (see pic at bottom)

"SRAM" seems to be etched/laser engraved on top of the caliper

 

Current level ultimate caliper

DServy wrote:

SRAM is releasing a bunch of mineral oil brakes. In part because DOT is terrible, and in part because of EU regulations around DOT fluid.

Etney wrote:

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.Ben Hildred is doing his climbing...

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.

Ben Hildred is doing his climbing challenge, where he climbs 10k feet a day, for 100 days, and I spotted him covering up the caliper on his latest story - Strange, because I thought he just ran regular Level Ultimate Stealth's - But went through his old stories from these past climbs, and managed to spot two pics of a caliper, that size-wise looks like a level, but it differs in shape. It also seems to say "Prototype" when you zoom in on phone. Pic quality here doesnt really translate though.

This challenge is probably a very good test for most of the components on his bike, so no wonder sram wants to torture test some brakes. He's also running the yet to be released new axs dropper. 

 

From his story today

Managed to see a pic with a text that looks to say "prototype" - You can also see that the side of the caliper is flat, compared to the current level brake which has a "ridge" in the side (see pic at bottom)

"SRAM" seems to be etched/laser engraved on top of the caliper

 

Current level ultimate caliper

DServy wrote:

SRAM is releasing a bunch of mineral oil brakes. In part because DOT is terrible, and in part because of EU regulations around DOT fluid.

AvgMTBEnjoyer wrote:

If I search DOT fluid EU regulations, safety sheets come up, could you link me something to point me in the right direction please?

DServy wrote:

SRAM is releasing a bunch of mineral oil brakes. In part because DOT is terrible, and in part because of EU regulations around DOT fluid.

AvgMTBEnjoyer wrote:

If I search DOT fluid EU regulations, safety sheets come up, could you link me something to point me in the right direction please?

DServy wrote:

Discussed here:https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2020-MTB-Tech-rumors-and-innovation,10797?page=741#comment-535516Though it does seem like the EU ban is more "rumblings" from those in the industry than anything official. But we've talked about...

Discussed here:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2020-MTB-Tech-rumors-and-innovation,10797?page=741#comment-535516

Though it does seem like the EU ban is more "rumblings" from those in the industry than anything official. But we've talked about it on this thread before. 

I'm just repeating what's been said before on the EU front, however I do know there are a couple bike releases dependent on SRAM introducing their new brakes first. 

AvgMTBEnjoyer wrote:

If I search DOT fluid EU regulations, safety sheets come up, could you link me something to point me in the right direction please?

DServy wrote:

Discussed here:https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2020-MTB-Tech-rumors-and-innovation,10797?page=741#comment-535516Though it does seem like the EU ban is more "rumblings" from those in the industry than anything official. But we've talked about...

Discussed here:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2020-MTB-Tech-rumors-and-innovation,10797?page=741#comment-535516

Though it does seem like the EU ban is more "rumblings" from those in the industry than anything official. But we've talked about it on this thread before. 

I'm just repeating what's been said before on the EU front, however I do know there are a couple bike releases dependent on SRAM introducing their new brakes first. 

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

The "preference" for Mineral oil doesn't seem to have much scientific basis to it, and it is still a petroleum product so you're really just trading...

The "preference" for Mineral oil doesn't seem to have much scientific basis to it, and it is still a petroleum product so you're really just trading one evil for another. It appears that the EU and other places are looking to impose more restrictions on DOT fluid to reduce the number of harmful chemicals used, but not explicitly saying that mineral oil is better alternative. 

It wouldn't surprise me if its purely a cost thing - that lack of regulation means brake companies can put what ever discount baby oil in their brakes they feel like and it doesn't need to meet any standards. 

Roryb wrote:

Yes, we use mass dampers to control wind accelerations in skyscrapers.  They are basic shake weights suspended on springs. Slosh tanks are often used too. These...

Yes, we use mass dampers to control wind accelerations in skyscrapers.  They are basic shake weights suspended on springs. Slosh tanks are often used too. These are purely for occupancy comfort. 

They can be used for strength design but then they need to be active dampers to react to all frequencies. 

Because if this, they are rarely used for strength design and almost never used in seismic design (as no one knows what frequency earthquake the building will actually see). 

These shake weights will improve hand comfort but at the cost of bike playfulness. 

juliusk wrote:

I can tell you the countershox doesn‘t make my bike any less „playful“. I mean if you want a freeride/big jumps or light trail/xc bike you...

I can tell you the countershox doesn‘t make my bike any less „playful“. I mean if you want a freeride/big jumps or light trail/xc bike you probably wouldn‘t put it on in the first place. 

Besides the actual weight I don‘t notice any different or weird feeling when jumping or trying to move the bike around fast. Whereas the added stability and comfort are huge. 

DServy wrote:

Discussed here:https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2020-MTB-Tech-rumors-and-innovation,10797?page=741#comment-535516Though it does seem like the EU ban is more "rumblings" from those in the industry than anything official. But we've talked about...

Discussed here:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/2020-MTB-Tech-rumors-and-innovation,10797?page=741#comment-535516

Though it does seem like the EU ban is more "rumblings" from those in the industry than anything official. But we've talked about it on this thread before. 

I'm just repeating what's been said before on the EU front, however I do know there are a couple bike releases dependent on SRAM introducing their new brakes first. 

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

The "preference" for Mineral oil doesn't seem to have much scientific basis to it, and it is still a petroleum product so you're really just trading...

The "preference" for Mineral oil doesn't seem to have much scientific basis to it, and it is still a petroleum product so you're really just trading one evil for another. It appears that the EU and other places are looking to impose more restrictions on DOT fluid to reduce the number of harmful chemicals used, but not explicitly saying that mineral oil is better alternative. 

It wouldn't surprise me if its purely a cost thing - that lack of regulation means brake companies can put what ever discount baby oil in their brakes they feel like and it doesn't need to meet any standards. 

StephenTheSquirrel wrote:

I'm guessing it's probably more down to the fact that DOT is a fair bit nastier on terms of corrosiveness and toxicity, no? 

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

The "preference" for Mineral oil doesn't seem to have much scientific basis to it, and it is still a petroleum product so you're really just trading...

The "preference" for Mineral oil doesn't seem to have much scientific basis to it, and it is still a petroleum product so you're really just trading one evil for another. It appears that the EU and other places are looking to impose more restrictions on DOT fluid to reduce the number of harmful chemicals used, but not explicitly saying that mineral oil is better alternative. 

It wouldn't surprise me if its purely a cost thing - that lack of regulation means brake companies can put what ever discount baby oil in their brakes they feel like and it doesn't need to meet any standards. 

StephenTheSquirrel wrote:

I'm guessing it's probably more down to the fact that DOT is a fair bit nastier on terms of corrosiveness and toxicity, no? 

Carraig042 wrote:

https://support.sram.com/hc/en-us/articles/5926856509723-Is-Mineral-Oil-brake-fluid-less-toxic-than-DOT-brake-fluid Sram does not think so.

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

Yup, my point is if it was being replaced for safety reasons then mineral oil isn't a great choice either. safety data sheets are publicly available btw...

Yup, my point is if it was being replaced for safety reasons then mineral oil isn't a great choice either. 

safety data sheets are publicly available btw, from the shimano oil one-

 https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/compliance/sds/HYDRAULIC%20MINERAL%20OIL-202206-ENG-CLP.pdf

2.2. Label elements
Labelling according to Regulation (EC) No. 1272/2008 [CLP]
Hazard pictograms (CLP) :
GHS08
Signal word : Danger
Contains : Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light paraffinic; Baseoil— unspecified,
Distillates (petroleum), solvent-dewaxed heavy paraffinic; Baseoil—
unspecified
Hazard statements (CLP) : H304 - May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.
H412 - Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.
Precautionary statements (CLP) : P102 - Keep out of reach of children.
P273 - Avoid release to the environment.
P301+P310+P331 - IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER, a
doctor. Do NOT induce vomiting.
P405 - Store locked up.
P501 - Dispose of contents and container to an approved waste disposal
plant.

 

The following restrictions are applicable according to Annex XVII of the REACH Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006:
3(b) Substances or mixtures fulfilling the criteria for any of the following hazard
classes or categories set out in Annex I to Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008: Hazard
classes 3.1 to 3.6, 3.7 adverse effects on sexual function and fertility or on
development, 3.8 effects other than narcotic effects, 3.9 and 3.10

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

Yup, my point is if it was being replaced for safety reasons then mineral oil isn't a great choice either. safety data sheets are publicly available btw...

Yup, my point is if it was being replaced for safety reasons then mineral oil isn't a great choice either. 

safety data sheets are publicly available btw, from the shimano oil one-

 https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/compliance/sds/HYDRAULIC%20MINERAL%20OIL-202206-ENG-CLP.pdf

2.2. Label elements
Labelling according to Regulation (EC) No. 1272/2008 [CLP]
Hazard pictograms (CLP) :
GHS08
Signal word : Danger
Contains : Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light paraffinic; Baseoil— unspecified,
Distillates (petroleum), solvent-dewaxed heavy paraffinic; Baseoil—
unspecified
Hazard statements (CLP) : H304 - May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.
H412 - Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.
Precautionary statements (CLP) : P102 - Keep out of reach of children.
P273 - Avoid release to the environment.
P301+P310+P331 - IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER, a
doctor. Do NOT induce vomiting.
P405 - Store locked up.
P501 - Dispose of contents and container to an approved waste disposal
plant.

 

The following restrictions are applicable according to Annex XVII of the REACH Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006:
3(b) Substances or mixtures fulfilling the criteria for any of the following hazard
classes or categories set out in Annex I to Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008: Hazard
classes 3.1 to 3.6, 3.7 adverse effects on sexual function and fertility or on
development, 3.8 effects other than narcotic effects, 3.9 and 3.10

JVP wrote:

Yep. This whole thing about mineral oil (petroleum) being a benign substance is just weird and wrong. Both classes of brake fluid can work well in...

Yep. This whole thing about mineral oil (petroleum) being a benign substance is just weird and wrong. Both classes of brake fluid can work well in brakes, neither of them work well as a skin care product or beverage.

Etney wrote:

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.Ben Hildred is doing his climbing...

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.

Ben Hildred is doing his climbing challenge, where he climbs 10k feet a day, for 100 days, and I spotted him covering up the caliper on his latest story - Strange, because I thought he just ran regular Level Ultimate Stealth's - But went through his old stories from these past climbs, and managed to spot two pics of a caliper, that size-wise looks like a level, but it differs in shape. It also seems to say "Prototype" when you zoom in on phone. Pic quality here doesnt really translate though.

This challenge is probably a very good test for most of the components on his bike, so no wonder sram wants to torture test some brakes. He's also running the yet to be released new axs dropper. 

 

From his story today

Managed to see a pic with a text that looks to say "prototype" - You can also see that the side of the caliper is flat, compared to the current level brake which has a "ridge" in the side (see pic at bottom)

"SRAM" seems to be etched/laser engraved on top of the caliper

 

Current level ultimate caliper

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

Yup, my point is if it was being replaced for safety reasons then mineral oil isn't a great choice either. safety data sheets are publicly available btw...

Yup, my point is if it was being replaced for safety reasons then mineral oil isn't a great choice either. 

safety data sheets are publicly available btw, from the shimano oil one-

 https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/compliance/sds/HYDRAULIC%20MINERAL%20OIL-202206-ENG-CLP.pdf

2.2. Label elements
Labelling according to Regulation (EC) No. 1272/2008 [CLP]
Hazard pictograms (CLP) :
GHS08
Signal word : Danger
Contains : Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light paraffinic; Baseoil— unspecified,
Distillates (petroleum), solvent-dewaxed heavy paraffinic; Baseoil—
unspecified
Hazard statements (CLP) : H304 - May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.
H412 - Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.
Precautionary statements (CLP) : P102 - Keep out of reach of children.
P273 - Avoid release to the environment.
P301+P310+P331 - IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER, a
doctor. Do NOT induce vomiting.
P405 - Store locked up.
P501 - Dispose of contents and container to an approved waste disposal
plant.

 

The following restrictions are applicable according to Annex XVII of the REACH Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006:
3(b) Substances or mixtures fulfilling the criteria for any of the following hazard
classes or categories set out in Annex I to Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008: Hazard
classes 3.1 to 3.6, 3.7 adverse effects on sexual function and fertility or on
development, 3.8 effects other than narcotic effects, 3.9 and 3.10

JVP wrote:

Yep. This whole thing about mineral oil (petroleum) being a benign substance is just weird and wrong. Both classes of brake fluid can work well in...

Yep. This whole thing about mineral oil (petroleum) being a benign substance is just weird and wrong. Both classes of brake fluid can work well in brakes, neither of them work well as a skin care product or beverage.

Buckets Up wrote:

But one of them doesn’t strip paint, ruin rubber durometer, or make certain plastics brittle.

Johnboy wrote:

Ever mixed EPDM rubber and mineral oil...? 

Etney wrote:

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.Ben Hildred is doing his climbing...

A lot of new regarding brakes these past pages. XTR, Mavens, Hope, and now another addition from SRAM I have spotted.

Ben Hildred is doing his climbing challenge, where he climbs 10k feet a day, for 100 days, and I spotted him covering up the caliper on his latest story - Strange, because I thought he just ran regular Level Ultimate Stealth's - But went through his old stories from these past climbs, and managed to spot two pics of a caliper, that size-wise looks like a level, but it differs in shape. It also seems to say "Prototype" when you zoom in on phone. Pic quality here doesnt really translate though.

This challenge is probably a very good test for most of the components on his bike, so no wonder sram wants to torture test some brakes. He's also running the yet to be released new axs dropper. 

 

From his story today

Managed to see a pic with a text that looks to say "prototype" - You can also see that the side of the caliper is flat, compared to the current level brake which has a "ridge" in the side (see pic at bottom)

"SRAM" seems to be etched/laser engraved on top of the caliper

 

Current level ultimate caliper

Kango wrote:

Could be that new oval single piston design.

Johnboy wrote:

Ever mixed EPDM rubber and mineral oil...? 

Buckets Up wrote:

No, what does that do?!

Buckets Up wrote:

No, what does that do?!