MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Dave_Camp
Posts
460
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
6/22/2024 6:17pm

I should have been a bit more clear- I think the new stumpy that’s coming out is going to be fine if it has a yoke.  The new shocks are tougher too- all brands.

 

Older designs (bikes and shocks) are more fragile for sure. Monarchs were/are super fragile and had a high warranty rate. I think that is fairly well known. 

 

Keep complaining- some companies read this stuff!

35
6/23/2024 10:17am
Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

JVP wrote:
Ask a group of heavier, smashier riders about your assertion that the shock yoke thing is overblown. There's this funny category of parts that are perfectly...

Ask a group of heavier, smashier riders about your assertion that the shock yoke thing is overblown.

There's this funny category of parts that are perfectly reliable, even exceptionally so, for most riders, but flip into guaranteed issues above a certain weight and smashiness factor.

Carbon cranks, long-travel single-crown CSUs and high engagement hubs from the likes of I-9 and King are other examples of this phenomenon. 

 

Wait have you actually seen someone break a King hub? What part of it broke? While I generally disagree with your big guys breaking more stuff anecdote I'll bite on that. The last 25 years of my life have been spent as a mechanic, service writer and later warranty/tech support for bike companies, I've seen more than my fair share of broken stuff.  Normal-sized young dudes sending it break the most bike parts, and older big guys complain the most about it. There is some crossover in the middle of course... I've broken every frame, rear rim and hub I've ever owned, except two king hub sets, one of which has been going for 15 years without a service and I've never serviced either of the fronts.  

15
TwinTurbo
Posts
19
Joined
1/1/2023
Location
Munich DE
6/23/2024 11:05am

Magura („size matters“) and knolly both announced something new for June 26th.

4
6/23/2024 12:02pm

Couple of screenshots I got from Magura’s insta..

11
6/23/2024 12:03pm

13
6/23/2024 12:08pm
TwinTurbo wrote:

Magura („size matters“) and knolly both announced something new for June 26th.

Knolly's announcement is the new Warden and probably Delirium.

2
Evil96
Posts
802
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
6/23/2024 12:38pm
JerseyMojo wrote:
Couple of screenshots I got from Magura’s insta..

Couple of screenshots I got from Magura’s insta..

well they managed to make it ugly af, let's see the final product, i hope they went cnc instead of carbotecture, even tho it looks like carbotecture and no rebuild kits for sure

5
2
6/23/2024 12:56pm

Knolly's announcement is the new Warden and probably Delirium.

And the new delirium is going to be 190mm rear travel and have a similar seat angle to the warden. 

5
6/23/2024 4:53pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2024 4:53pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

JVP wrote:
Ask a group of heavier, smashier riders about your assertion that the shock yoke thing is overblown. There's this funny category of parts that are perfectly...

Ask a group of heavier, smashier riders about your assertion that the shock yoke thing is overblown.

There's this funny category of parts that are perfectly reliable, even exceptionally so, for most riders, but flip into guaranteed issues above a certain weight and smashiness factor.

Carbon cranks, long-travel single-crown CSUs and high engagement hubs from the likes of I-9 and King are other examples of this phenomenon. 

 

Wait have you actually seen someone break a King hub? What part of it broke? While I generally disagree with your big guys breaking more stuff...

Wait have you actually seen someone break a King hub? What part of it broke? While I generally disagree with your big guys breaking more stuff anecdote I'll bite on that. The last 25 years of my life have been spent as a mechanic, service writer and later warranty/tech support for bike companies, I've seen more than my fair share of broken stuff.  Normal-sized young dudes sending it break the most bike parts, and older big guys complain the most about it. There is some crossover in the middle of course... I've broken every frame, rear rim and hub I've ever owned, except two king hub sets, one of which has been going for 15 years without a service and I've never serviced either of the fronts.  

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

7
Losifer
Posts
407
Joined
9/12/2017
Location
Sandia Park, NM US
6/23/2024 6:24pm

Knolly's announcement is the new Warden and probably Delirium.

And the new delirium is going to be 190mm rear travel and have a similar seat angle to the warden. 

 Same frame, different linkages maybe?

1
Shinook
Posts
138
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Asheville, NC US
6/23/2024 7:25pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

Not all of the shocks end up going through warranty replacement. 

Ask suspension shops how many air shocks they get with gouged/damaged air cans and/or broken shafts due to Stumpjumpers or yoke driven linkages. This goes back years across other bikes, the common factor for all of them is the yoke. Whether it's an issue for you specifically likely comes down to numerous factors including rider weight and terrain, but that doesn't mean there isn't an engineering flaw associated with them.

Even if it's a small number, it's an issue that doesn't effect most other linkage designs, so why continue to use something that causes problems even if it's a small % of users that have them? It's a poor design and they need to let it go.

8
3
6/23/2024 11:04pm
Losifer wrote:

 Same frame, different linkages maybe?

Noel did say the delirium is its own unique frame again, but didn't say how other than it being longer travel than the warden. 

3
dustyaf
Posts
3
Joined
4/9/2024
Location
Aldgate, SA AU
6/24/2024 1:47am

17
6/24/2024 6:37am

I know it isn't going to, but I want the Big Hit to come back. Mullets are in, it's got the nostalgia factor for the generation that is starting to spend big money on mountain bikes... Aluminum, mullet 160/160 and 180/170 options, give me a long rear and and a low BB...

7
Nozes
Posts
28
Joined
1/28/2010
Location
PT
6/24/2024 6:57am

Magura also posted this video on Facebook and got me all excited for new Gustav M with retro-looking levers...and now I saw that picture above and I'm not so excited anymore.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/Nb7aRmrqhQAHr6cx/

2
1
grinch
Posts
246
Joined
10/15/2013
Location
CA
6/24/2024 7:33am
dustyaf wrote:

Probably a new kenevo. Theyve been offloading the old kenevos for a while now

6/24/2024 7:40am
dustyaf wrote:

grinch wrote:

Probably a new kenevo. Theyve been offloading the old kenevos for a while now

Same with the new Stumpjumper. Could be that as well. 

3
HexonJuan
Posts
375
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
6/24/2024 11:12am
I know it isn't going to, but I want the Big Hit to come back. Mullets are in, it's got the nostalgia factor for the generation...

I know it isn't going to, but I want the Big Hit to come back. Mullets are in, it's got the nostalgia factor for the generation that is starting to spend big money on mountain bikes... Aluminum, mullet 160/160 and 180/170 options, give me a long rear and and a low BB...

They kinda have that with the Status, at least in 160 variation. There was a pic some time ago about what was posited as the neu & impruved Status with the longer travel of your second request.

6
6/24/2024 12:57pm
Primoz wrote:
FWIW gen 2 Hightowers Megatowers sideloaded their shocks quite a bit judging by the amount of air in the damper when doing a service. And they...

FWIW gen 2 Hightowers Megatowers sideloaded their shocks quite a bit judging by the amount of air in the damper when doing a service. And they don't use a shock extender...

Yup those SC bikes do some weird stuff, the rocker is super rigid & the leverage is pretty high so any slight misalignment or buckling gets transferred straight to the shock itself. Normally traditional eyelets at both ends is super reliable but those seem to be an outlier.

 

The yoke destroying shocks thing is not even slightly overblown! Its just buckling forces on a slender part.....the longer you make it the more it wants to buckle when compressed. I have piles of broken shocks from nearly every brand that has been wrecked by shock extenders. Coil and air, fox, rockshox, cane creek, DVO.....even the latest air spring models with larger steel shafts and damper bodies get ruined at a far greater rate than other bikes

Service techs noticed this trend a long time ago - its not just yoke bikes but they are the ones almost guaranteed to wreck shocks as soon as you use one that is not quite strong enough or the mounting bolt isn't torqued 100%.

 Problem seems to be the frame makers are flat out refusing to acknowledge any responsibility and suspension manufacturers aren't pushing back hard enough. Fox FINALLY added their TSB for coil shocks (https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1138) a few years ago, but bikes brands and shops don't seem to even be aware of it because I still regularly get people who have been told by brands on that list that their Fox DHX2 is fine! Yet I have it on my bench with a broken eyelet.

20
6/24/2024 6:14pm
Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never...

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as Chris Kings but at a lower price point. 

6
6/24/2024 6:25pm
Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never...

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as...

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as Chris Kings but at a lower price point. 

Pretty much, DT and King are the only 2 hub brands I have total faith in. I worked at the king importer here when they acquired it, I wasn't super in to the brand at all, but after several years working on them and dealing with the company they would be one of the brands I regard highest out of anyone in the industry. DT 350s are pretty much what I will choose if the budget doesn't stretch to CK - they just work 

11
Evil96
Posts
802
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
6/24/2024 6:46pm
Yup those SC bikes do some weird stuff, the rocker is super rigid & the leverage is pretty high so any slight misalignment or buckling gets...

Yup those SC bikes do some weird stuff, the rocker is super rigid & the leverage is pretty high so any slight misalignment or buckling gets transferred straight to the shock itself. Normally traditional eyelets at both ends is super reliable but those seem to be an outlier.

 

The yoke destroying shocks thing is not even slightly overblown! Its just buckling forces on a slender part.....the longer you make it the more it wants to buckle when compressed. I have piles of broken shocks from nearly every brand that has been wrecked by shock extenders. Coil and air, fox, rockshox, cane creek, DVO.....even the latest air spring models with larger steel shafts and damper bodies get ruined at a far greater rate than other bikes

Service techs noticed this trend a long time ago - its not just yoke bikes but they are the ones almost guaranteed to wreck shocks as soon as you use one that is not quite strong enough or the mounting bolt isn't torqued 100%.

 Problem seems to be the frame makers are flat out refusing to acknowledge any responsibility and suspension manufacturers aren't pushing back hard enough. Fox FINALLY added their TSB for coil shocks (https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1138) a few years ago, but bikes brands and shops don't seem to even be aware of it because I still regularly get people who have been told by brands on that list that their Fox DHX2 is fine! Yet I have it on my bench with a broken eyelet.

than you for speaking the truth, who better than someone that work with suspensions can say something about poor design creating problems!

3
6/24/2024 7:29pm
Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never...

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as...

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as Chris Kings but at a lower price point. 

Pretty much, DT and King are the only 2 hub brands I have total faith in. I worked at the king importer here when they acquired...

Pretty much, DT and King are the only 2 hub brands I have total faith in. I worked at the king importer here when they acquired it, I wasn't super in to the brand at all, but after several years working on them and dealing with the company they would be one of the brands I regard highest out of anyone in the industry. DT 350s are pretty much what I will choose if the budget doesn't stretch to CK - they just work 

And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone. 
 

I recently built up two sets of wheels with DT 350s and they’ve been great so far 🤞

Speaking of hubs, just got an email from OneUp announcing their new hubs. They look pretty promising and I’ve had good experiences with many of their products. 

8
6/24/2024 7:46pm

These look great. Also, best product launch video I've ever seen. No bullshit.

5
ZAKBROWN!
Posts
97
Joined
8/28/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
6/24/2024 8:25pm
sprungmass wrote:

Speaking of hubs, looks like OneUp entered the chat. Pretty impressive price point too. 

https://can.oneupcomponents.com/collections/hubs

They look good but I don't understand why more companies don't build in the ability to switch between 15mm and 20mm Boost spacing for the front hub.  I9 Hydra, Spank Hex, and possibly Hope are the only ones I know of that can do that.  I have 2 sets of wheels with I9 Hydra front hubs for this reason - that way I can pull a wheel off my enduro bike and use it on my DH bike if I need to.  

4
boozed
Posts
647
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
6/24/2024 8:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2024 8:51pm
And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone.    I recently built up two...

And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone. 
 

I recently built up two sets of wheels with DT 350s and they’ve been great so far 🤞

Speaking of hubs, just got an email from OneUp announcing their new hubs. They look pretty promising and I’ve had good experiences with many of their products. 

Interesting note from the product pages:

OneUp Hubs use a OneUp-specific ratchet and spring. You can use a OneUp Ratchet in your DT Swiss™ hub (which requires an additional spacer), but you cannot use a DT Swiss™ Ratchet in a OneUp Hub.

Nice to have a cheaper and trustworthy alternative, but the OneUp ratchet is 44t.  If I'm upgrading from 36t, I'm still going to 54t (insert rant about 54t not already being standard fitment).

7
6/24/2024 8:50pm

Oneup... about to dominate anther product market, Those guys are seriously awesome to deal with... realistic pricing aswell.

7
6/24/2024 9:08pm

New from Magura

2
8
Whattheheel
Posts
192
Joined
6/11/2014
Location
Spearfish, SD US
6/24/2024 9:40pm

Oneup... about to dominate anther product market, Those guys are seriously awesome to deal with... realistic pricing aswell.

Reminds me I need to order some grips.  Thanks. 

2
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