You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's...
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean).
It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack.
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal...
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal who runs a service center. I'm using it in my fat bike's dropper and brakes. Works a treat in the dropper, giving great return speed at 10deg F and running lower pressure in the cartridge. Brakes are unphased so far, but I'll have to wait n see how it handles summer heat before I make a firm value call on it for that use.
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing.
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) -
Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.
Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.
I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=gas_social&utm_campaign=treks_biggest_launch&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2gExhp5PkB9x_uV8-2Lj4cGF0mSu0tIRA3n-waCPJrPoOMpfDoVOgCvDQ_aem_MzaxQQh6vD-lcnBDmgWiqg
anyone know whats that all about?
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use...
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) -
Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.
Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.
I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.
So what's Trek up to?
Just strategically placed weight or something more interesting than that?
So what's Trek up to?
Just strategically placed weight or something more interesting than that?
Looks like a mass damper to reduce vibrations. I’ve heard mixed reviews, some people say are a big change and others say they can’t feel the difference.
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=gas_social&utm_campaign=treks_biggest_launch&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2gExhp5PkB9x_uV8-2Lj4cGF0mSu0tIRA3n-waCPJrPoOMpfDoVOgCvDQ_aem_MzaxQQh6vD-lcnBDmgWiqg
anyone know whats that all about?
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike?
2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.
3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard.
Trek Medona... That what us boys at the shop want it to be named but noooo they just left it as the Madone. Missed opportunity lol good looking bike though.
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring...
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike?
2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.
3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard.
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and it’s not the end of the world for another 3-4 rides because there’s a lot more traction on the dirtbike. After this the tire will start to roll or collapse in whoops and compressions which is too scary. If the mtb versions did the same they’d be unrideable and also wildly expensive. While the Dunlop Mousse is rather harsh to begin with it lasts a lot longer and holds its shape. I’d love to try mousse for DH racing but I’d venture to say the added unsprung and rotational weight would be very noticeable as it is even noticeable on my moto.
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and...
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and it’s not the end of the world for another 3-4 rides because there’s a lot more traction on the dirtbike. After this the tire will start to roll or collapse in whoops and compressions which is too scary. If the mtb versions did the same they’d be unrideable and also wildly expensive. While the Dunlop Mousse is rather harsh to begin with it lasts a lot longer and holds its shape. I’d love to try mousse for DH racing but I’d venture to say the added unsprung and rotational weight would be very noticeable as it is even noticeable on my moto.
I feel there is a system we can make, especially for more casual riders, that will work way good enough but we are probably a ways off of replacing air for competitive use. I still think its insane in 2024 there isn't a flat-proof system for the top guys, but then again I don't know that we've seen a flat derail a good run among the top 20 in DH.
Completely off topic but I hate the Nuetech mousses for moto for the reasons you mentioned. I will only run michelin and get a lot of use out of them, and they are light. I'll never go back to air of any kind.
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which is unusual being this close to launch. Anyone hearing anything new?
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which...
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which is unusual being this close to launch. Anyone hearing anything new?
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's...
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean).
It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack.
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal...
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal who runs a service center. I'm using it in my fat bike's dropper and brakes. Works a treat in the dropper, giving great return speed at 10deg F and running lower pressure in the cartridge. Brakes are unphased so far, but I'll have to wait n see how it handles summer heat before I make a firm value call on it for that use.
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why...
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing.
Yup "like water" is redlines 0wt product and actually what fox rebadges to use as their seatpost fluid (although they call it 1.5wt). Crazy low viscosity of 4 cSt and insanely high viscosity index which was very very stable at high temperatures (which I tested here https://tinyurl.com/4ucjdsc7) which is good for something like an off road truck but not mtbs where the operating ranges are much smaller. The downsides are those kinds of oils oxidise really fast and turn your internals dark brown, plus they tend to be super noisy.
Oils are a useful tuning tool for some dampers - but not all of them respond much to changes in viscosity so you will get mixed results. The trade offs of using different oils can be risky too, especially if its not being changed regularly plus you need to track what you used so it doesn't get changed out in the next service!
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency...
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency...
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it...
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
Derailing obviously... Renault used a TDM, yes. As far as I read into it, having the force on the tyre in F1 as constant as possible gives you the best grip, any spikes in the loads influence this. So they were looking for a platform that would be even more stable. The suspension is basically rock solid as it's there, primarily, to support the aero platform. In the olden days (13" wheels) the tyre was an essential part of the suspension, less so with the move to 18" wheels (the sidewall is smaller). It was never mentioned that the TDM tuned out the own frequency of the tyre, but it could be used because of that.
Anywho, the FIA outlawed it under the 'moveable aero devices' regulation at the time as on an F1 car technically only the unsprung components can move, but in reality they did not want to have cars with 25 kilo weights suspended in the nosecones. The lack of a TDM was later solved by McLaren who pioneered the inerter (which resists acceleration and effectively makes the sprung portion of the car, from the tyre standpoint, much heavier through it).
That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it.
I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights.
I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing.
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=fac…
anyone know whats that all about?
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) -
Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.
Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.
I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.
New Madone road bike in time for the Tour de France. It's would be the 8th gen of the Madone hence the promo picture you see there.
Formula’s CTS system seems like a great solution.
Looks like a mass damper to reduce vibrations. I’ve heard mixed reviews, some people say are a big change and others say they can’t feel the difference.
https://countershox.com/product/countershox-blue/
I’ve seen photos of the Commencal team testing them a year or 2 ago.
It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.
my guess is a new road bike, new trek madone was seen a couple weeks ago on world tour teams.
edit: someone was faster
Combining the Madone and Emonda into one bike.Probably to be called Nomade or something equally stupid (Trek road bikes use the same letters)
Trek Adomen. Trek Enomad. Trek Donema. Trek Amonde.
Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Here are the big questions.
1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike?
2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.
3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard.
Trek Medona... That what us boys at the shop want it to be named but noooo they just left it as the Madone. Missed opportunity lol good looking bike though.
It seams EXT USA already has a page for selling Storia V4, found it through google, can't be accessed through link on their page yet:
https://extusa.bike/products/ext-storia-v4
My Nitro Mousses get flattened/squared on top after a couple desert rides or races (I generally ride 45-60miles any given day and races are 80-100) and it’s not the end of the world for another 3-4 rides because there’s a lot more traction on the dirtbike. After this the tire will start to roll or collapse in whoops and compressions which is too scary. If the mtb versions did the same they’d be unrideable and also wildly expensive. While the Dunlop Mousse is rather harsh to begin with it lasts a lot longer and holds its shape. I’d love to try mousse for DH racing but I’d venture to say the added unsprung and rotational weight would be very noticeable as it is even noticeable on my moto.
I feel there is a system we can make, especially for more casual riders, that will work way good enough but we are probably a ways off of replacing air for competitive use. I still think its insane in 2024 there isn't a flat-proof system for the top guys, but then again I don't know that we've seen a flat derail a good run among the top 20 in DH.
Completely off topic but I hate the Nuetech mousses for moto for the reasons you mentioned. I will only run michelin and get a lot of use out of them, and they are light. I'll never go back to air of any kind.
it said madone on it, very similar to the current one but slimmer.
Trek Mad One.
Daemon but pronounce it demon
After working in a handful of Trek dealers in my life, I believe it’s called a Trexs Madrone.
Ibis supposedly launching a new Ripmo (and possibly other models) next month that mimics the design language of the HD6. REALLY quiet out there though which is unusual being this close to launch. Anyone hearing anything new?
New Ripmo with straighter tubes sounds great!
Having worked directly for the mothership , I hate Terk............so much.
Before my pb account got suspended, I photoshoped a straight top tube Rimpo AF. Looks so much better, but I didn't save the image offline
Trek Domina?
Can confirm that the announcement on their website references the new Madone.
https://andreaniusa.com/product/supermoussepac1-l/
Someone is already selling mousse for mountain bikes, I will not be trying it but maybe someone on here would.
Yup "like water" is redlines 0wt product and actually what fox rebadges to use as their seatpost fluid (although they call it 1.5wt). Crazy low viscosity of 4 cSt and insanely high viscosity index which was very very stable at high temperatures (which I tested here https://tinyurl.com/4ucjdsc7) which is good for something like an off road truck but not mtbs where the operating ranges are much smaller. The downsides are those kinds of oils oxidise really fast and turn your internals dark brown, plus they tend to be super noisy.
Oils are a useful tuning tool for some dampers - but not all of them respond much to changes in viscosity so you will get mixed results. The trade offs of using different oils can be risky too, especially if its not being changed regularly plus you need to track what you used so it doesn't get changed out in the next service!
"I will not be trying it." lol
Yeah its something I've wanted to put some testing in to, but unless you have a specific resonant frequency you are needing to eliminate then it won't help (or make it worse)
They were made famous in everyones favourite birthplace of technology (F1), where tyre vibration was a real problem because the suspension is so stiff and the regulations normally specify a minimum tyre pressure (which would in theory help dramatically), they needed another way to deal with it. It could maybe benefit push bikes, but would need to be easily tuneable and also be sure that you aren't masking an issue that could have been fixed in a different way
I suspect I'm not making a great analogy here (sorry, not my field!) but this is the first thing I thought of and obvs had to say it out loud
Derailing obviously... Renault used a TDM, yes. As far as I read into it, having the force on the tyre in F1 as constant as possible gives you the best grip, any spikes in the loads influence this. So they were looking for a platform that would be even more stable. The suspension is basically rock solid as it's there, primarily, to support the aero platform. In the olden days (13" wheels) the tyre was an essential part of the suspension, less so with the move to 18" wheels (the sidewall is smaller). It was never mentioned that the TDM tuned out the own frequency of the tyre, but it could be used because of that.
Anywho, the FIA outlawed it under the 'moveable aero devices' regulation at the time as on an F1 car technically only the unsprung components can move, but in reality they did not want to have cars with 25 kilo weights suspended in the nosecones. The lack of a TDM was later solved by McLaren who pioneered the inerter (which resists acceleration and effectively makes the sprung portion of the car, from the tyre standpoint, much heavier through it).
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