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I keep commenting really dumb shit, but I'm thinking of a couple things, SRAM related.
-they have a 4 piston Level T now, between those and the Codes, I'm assuming they will bail on guides right? Rip guide.
-No Boxxer released. Wonder if its waiting until Sea Otter, along with the Vivid looking shock.
This will be June. Eurobike, I believe.
CRC too. they cracked down on that a number of years ago.
Embargoes!
SRAM's been on it for a while, Shimano put the lockdown on like 5 or 6 years ago. They were killing LBS's with the pricing. In many cases, selling for less than an LBS could get at dealer price
Lotta the big German shops either own or are under the same ownership as a bike brand, so they can get enormous quantities of parts at OEM pricing. Combine that with the buying power of a mega-retailer and the removal of the VAT and you have even stupider pricing.
There are some good things that aren't embargoed on the sites, but you also gotta decide whether you care about your LBS or how much you care about it
I think a lot of people also forget that US brand pricing is mainly only advantageous to US customers and vice versa. Magura and hope brakes are expensive stateside, but pretty affordable on the other side of the puddle
Bike24 has a lot of stuff in stock. I'll focus on two components though, not the complete groupsets.
The XX SL chain is 178 €. The XX chain is 148 €. The XX cassette is 656 €, the X0 cassette is 478 €. This is street pricing. If you want to compare the MSRPs of the previous gen, X01 carbon crankset is 401 € as per Sram, the new aluminium one is 360. The chainss are 180 and 150 € (XX SL and XX), the old X01 chain MSRP is 72 €. Street price is ~55 €. The street price for the X01 cassette is ~300 €.
While there is some 'room for things to get cheaper' as is the usual case with Sram MSRP pricing, even comparing the MSRPs of the chains is insane. X01 chains are hard chromed and are nearly indestructible. The new X0 chain is 'PVD coated to prevent corrosion' (does not give me the same confidence as hard chroming off the bat) and has solid pins. The XX brings hollow pins and the XX SL brings additional holes in the plates.
How exactly is it 'cry once' if an objectively worse design of the main wear item of the drivetrain has gotten almost exactly twice as expensive? And features wise, it currently looks like the X0 chain has effectively become the GX tier, which currently costs ~25 € on the street (MSRP 36 €). So comparing like for like the chain has gotten way more than twice as expensive, comparing current street prices it has gotten almost three times as expensive (XX vs. X01). Is it going to last three times as long? I sincerely doubt it.
And the crankset? 360 MSRP for the aluminium version? That must be some jolly expensive aluminium for it to cost 10 % less than the expensive carbon version (the GX level carbon cranks have an MSRP of 321 €, street price is 240 €).
Without going into technical details just the pricing alone is a complete WTF in my opinion. And the crazier part of it is that this kind of pricing has been unleashed on the consumer EXACTLY at the time of the lowest bike sales in the last 20 years, at the time of massive discounts, an incoming (industry or worlwdie?) crisis and expected price drops. Eagle coming out was a clear winner. This... I wish Sram the best.
I mean, that’s fair for sure too. The way they used to talk about the difference between XX1 and X01 is now the way they’re talking about the difference between XX SL and XX. The XO has definitely been downgraded in some key ways.
I am patiently waiting for the new rockshox stuff, as I will need a new DH fork for this summer....
To be honest I think the differences between XX1 and X01 were much smaller than they are now. The chains are the same (XX1 chains appear to be coated after assembly, taking apart the black one shows silver contact faces between the inner and outer links, so it almost looks like a a cosmetic coating in the case of the black one), the cassettes are the same, the XX1 derailleur had a carbon cage? And the carbon crank doesn't have the foam core in the case of XX1 while the X01 does have it (making it stronger apparently).
There are a ton of feature differences and material changes between X0 and XX now that impact the function a lot more than it did previously.
Just saw the prices for the new Code Stealth too. 'RSC' level is 330 € per side, Ultimate level is 370 € per side. So 'one for the price of two' kinda deal compared to the standard RSCs.
Have you tried a Dorado? If not, do try it - that’s how you’ll figure it out that you need one in your life! 😁
So I'm assuming you made a bicycle version of this for yourself. Flame on!
Back on topic. Boxxer and SID all have their own release dates over the next few months, so just gotta be patient. The SRAM PR train is doing a good job with the hype buildup and apparently, people are being real good about not being photographed with new stuff months in advance!
Here's a new theory. Was the Craigslist sale a "planned oopsy" like when Apple employees "accidentally" left their prototype phones at a bar/restaurant?
Pinkbike has a development story about the new Sram stuff where it's mentioned the new crank is a one piece crank-and-spindle part. But the accompanying picture is of a forged crank and a separate axle.
Do we have a confirmation that it is actually a single piece? That would somewhat explain the price but my god is that a saving pennies (or grams) by spending dollars kinda situation...
Also, tin foil hat on... A friend of mine mentioned the possibility the prices are this high to squarely position the new stuff in the utmost highend. That would mean high cashflows even with lower volumes. Higher margin per sold product situation. The idea is that Sram and Shimano would take over the high end stuff and leave the lower end to incoming, smaller, Asian players. Tektro and Microshift being two examples (Tektro does have TRP, I know), but there is an impending influx of Chinese brands in the lower end as well.
Looking at the road stuff and all of it going electronic big S wise, this is not an impossible idea to be honest...
Why not just buy Ohlins right now? Its better anyway
I know, but I dont need the ferrari, fine with the civic.
the possibility the prices are this high to squarely position the new stuff in the utmost highend. That would mean high cashflows even with lower volumes
If you can afford 10k for a pushbike , you can probably afford 12k.
Shimano just released a ton of budget/mass market products under the Cues 'groupset' so not exactly leaving the low end market to others. More like Shimano doubling down on their dominance of the low/mid end of the market.
Saracen prototype!
Was this project at a discount for everyone to adopt it? intense/canyon/specialized
Interesting that it looks like they went with a single (low) pivot instead of the horst link like most others with this design, or is that a split pivot ala Trek?
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that more 'trail' bikes will get Codes instead (since it's such a small weight increase for way more power) but I have a feeling we will see especially low end bikes get the new Level 4 piston brakes instead. Here's hoping they're better than Guides.
Don't see a reason they would be, the Level lever doesn't have the swing link which means Guide R power levels...
The Saracen does indeed look like a split pivot.
Point there, on the other hand Tiagra is the highest spec mechanical road group at the moment, meaning the highest spec group for road bikes under 2 grand.
Had a chat with one of EU shimano distribution team member around new year and, to summarize, he said shimano has no plan to respond to sram on high end products for the next 5 years (shimano production schedules already full and planned until then) but is working R&D to comeback strong at that point.
There is a dentist who already called his lbs to order one because he can’t wait to stand on his derailleur before the next group ride.
with current inflation I really don’t see these as priced any more or less insanely high than original axs or the original top end 12 speed groups. Which have always been released well before the budget tier groups to get maximum returns from impulse buys by people with the money to spend.
AXS directly powered by e-bike battery… ?
Sram is concentrating on the ultra high end and shimano is dominant on ultra low end to mid (debatably mid/high end). There seems to be less direct competition between them for certain segments or tiers. That plus the even further reduced compatibility/interchangeability is not so good for us consumers. Sram freely licensed it's udh patent to everyone So trek or whoever can make frames that take a udh and manufacture the udh too, right? Does anyone know what the time limit on those licenses' are or if they are valid for the duration of the patent? Obviously they'd keep it free to make udh frames, but sram could decide not to renew the free licenses to manufacture udh's... Now, I'd be pretty surprised if sram pulled something that devious, and I seriously doubt so many bike companies would have gone udh if the license could expire. But it would be one hell of a thrown monkey wrench to the status quo of the industry!
Edit: anyone have aluminum foil headwear I can borrow?
Yes, thats been a thing on a few bikes over the last few years. Most likely a cue towards the upcoming Sram E-bike motor system.
Now when your battery dies, you cant shift into a lower gear to get your ultra heavy bike up the hill back home!
Yes I realize my requests put the Epic Evo in stumpjumper territory, but the Epic Evo frame is almost 2 pounds lighter and has a 2 bottle mounts inside the frame. I’ve been doing a lot of endurance races the last couple years and my dream bike would be a lightweight 120/120 frame with 480 reach, 2 bottle holders inside the frame and downtube storage. ::first world problems::
The thing is, the lower end actually has much bigger volume, the margin is for sure lower but the numbers are huge (most of the bikes are not MTBs). Thats why overall Shimano still has much higher sales compared to SRAM who seems to be going more into premium. There could be a billion of bikes on this planet but very little of them run anything above deore/NX, let alone 600$ cogs and wireless transmission... LBS had a chance to become Specialized concept store but passed as they don't make low end bikes which in the end still make up a mojority of the sales.
11s mechanical 105 and ultegra is still available on 2023 model year bikes, 12 speed mechanical 105 coming soon too (https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-105-12-speed-mechanical/)
Sorry for the link from another website
Kavenz High pivot enduro bike with gear box. Pre order starting.