2019 UCI World Cup Downhill Tech

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3/7/2019 9:47 AM

attention bike nerds. early release of Gee's Vital RAW before it goes on the homepage
https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/features/GEE-ATHERTON-Vital-RAW,36431/sspomer,2

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3/7/2019 11:47 AM

kwapik wrote:

For sure. Myself, I'm interested in the new Lyrik and what's inside. I think it's called ultra - not positive though. Hurry up and lift the embargo Sram.


It's called Lyrik Ultimate.

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3/7/2019 12:10 PM

sspomer wrote:

if enough data is tracked, couldn't you set things up so your electronics do the shifting automatically at certain points on track? same w/ a seat up and down? or auto lock-out on pedally sections? i can't see this being worth pursuing right now. there are so many variables to take into account on course and with the rider's pace that error would probably make it worthless. removing rider actions with the goal of focusing on the track could help w/ tenths or hundredths here and there though.

it's so rad how much tech and data is going into these things. it's also rad when the riders who have none of this at their disposal post up and get a good result!

With hardware capable of changing suspension setting quickly, it would not be a stretch to be able to tune suspension throughout a race run. This could be easily automated, using M.L models trained on practice run data. So, if a rider were to commit to a line early in the race weekend and record a few good laps with a full telemetry rig (while keeping their route roughly the same), a race tuning/adjustment algorithm could be fitted to the rider's telemetry data. This trained algorithm, along with a simpler onboard telemetry unit (which should be available in the next year or two), would allow the suspension to 'learn' the course conditions as the rider takes their race run, and adjust settings according to conditions and anticipated obstacles.

This tech is very much within reach for top factory teams.

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3/7/2019 12:27 PM

PeteB wrote:

With hardware capable of changing suspension setting quickly, it would not be a stretch to be able to tune suspension throughout a race run. This could be easily automated, using M.L models trained on practice run data. So, if a rider were to commit to a line early in the race weekend and record a few good laps with a full telemetry rig (while keeping their route roughly the same), a race tuning/adjustment algorithm could be fitted to the rider's telemetry data. This trained algorithm, along with a simpler onboard telemetry unit (which should be available in the next year or two), would allow the suspension to 'learn' the course conditions as the rider takes their race run, and adjust settings according to conditions and anticipated obstacles.

This tech is very much within reach for top factory teams.

^This guy gets it.

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3/7/2019 12:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/7/2019 12:35 PM

kwapik wrote:

For sure. Myself, I'm interested in the new Lyrik and what's inside. I think it's called ultra - not positive though. Hurry up and lift the embargo Sram.


jaakkoso wrote:

It's called Lyrik Ultimate.

Thanks for that. At least I didn't call it Ultron.

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3/7/2019 1:26 PM

sspomer wrote:

loris on xtr brakes for windrock. both of his worlds bikes (same bike as pictured here) had saints on them.




this is his bike just after he crossed the line, so he did actually race with xtr
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3/7/2019 2:43 PM

sspomer wrote:

if enough data is tracked, couldn't you set things up so your electronics do the shifting automatically at certain points on track? same w/ a seat up and down? or auto lock-out on pedally sections? i can't see this being worth pursuing right now. there are so many variables to take into account on course and with the rider's pace that error would probably make it worthless. removing rider actions with the goal of focusing on the track could help w/ tenths or hundredths here and there though.

it's so rad how much tech and data is going into these things. it's also rad when the riders who have none of this at their disposal post up and get a good result!

PeteB wrote:

With hardware capable of changing suspension setting quickly, it would not be a stretch to be able to tune suspension throughout a race run. This could be easily automated, using M.L models trained on practice run data. So, if a rider were to commit to a line early in the race weekend and record a few good laps with a full telemetry rig (while keeping their route roughly the same), a race tuning/adjustment algorithm could be fitted to the rider's telemetry data. This trained algorithm, along with a simpler onboard telemetry unit (which should be available in the next year or two), would allow the suspension to 'learn' the course conditions as the rider takes their race run, and adjust settings according to conditions and anticipated obstacles.

This tech is very much within reach for top factory teams.

And then these DH comparisons to Formula 1 can finally cease?

k - thanx. \

PS - Santa Cruz: all this king-of-the-world BS and -- not a single female to support??

Weak Sauce.

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3/7/2019 2:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/7/2019 3:01 PM

sspomer wrote:

neko's windrock bike




timing chip on luca's bike during test camp


It hard to tell, but it looks like Neko is using the e-bike version of the Quadiem on his bike https://trpcycling.com/product/g-spec-emtb/

I think I remember him running the same setup at some point last year as well. If you take a look at these close-ups from Gwin's instagram he's definitely running the e-mtb caliper, but he's also running a lever that looks a lot more like the traditional G-Spec Quadiem lever. I think the lever says G- Spec DH-R which isn't a product that's currently listed in their lineup. Any theories on why they're moving to the new caliper? Maybe better heat dissipation from using thicker 2.3mm rotors?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtbdSCoAJty/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

ps What's the trick to get instagram images to embed directly in the forum?

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3/7/2019 3:04 PM

Not sure if this is a uni project or a company with a new bike maybe see it will grace the WC circuit under a lesser known rider who knows (please delete if it doesn't belong in this thread)




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3/7/2019 3:44 PM

That almost looks like it could be a Pole DH bike. Sexy curves. Nice find.

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3/7/2019 5:41 PM

Steve Bell keeping the Giant gent's bikes quiet... seriously, they are silence and it's erie.


Jacob is on the bush bashers. Pretty "handy" [l.o.l.] here at Windrock as there are some tight lines this weekend.

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3/7/2019 6:54 PM

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3/7/2019 9:48 PM

sspomer wrote:

spotted in chile. interesting. (i know it's not a DH bike or world cup but...)


Can we rewind back to what this is?

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3/7/2019 9:59 PM

sspomer wrote:

spotted in chile. interesting. (i know it's not a DH bike or world cup but...)


metadave wrote:

Can we rewind back to what this is?

think it's a newer trail version of this?
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/EUROBIKE-2017-Downhill-Bikes-and-Gear,10432/Norland-Cycles-Blast-from-the-Past,109593/sspomer,2

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3/7/2019 11:10 PM

sspomer wrote:

if enough data is tracked, couldn't you set things up so your electronics do the shifting automatically at certain points on track? same w/ a seat up and down? or auto lock-out on pedally sections? i can't see this being worth pursuing right now. there are so many variables to take into account on course and with the rider's pace that error would probably make it worthless. removing rider actions with the goal of focusing on the track could help w/ tenths or hundredths here and there though.

it's so rad how much tech and data is going into these things. it's also rad when the riders who have none of this at their disposal post up and get a good result!

PeteB wrote:

With hardware capable of changing suspension setting quickly, it would not be a stretch to be able to tune suspension throughout a race run. This could be easily automated, using M.L models trained on practice run data. So, if a rider were to commit to a line early in the race weekend and record a few good laps with a full telemetry rig (while keeping their route roughly the same), a race tuning/adjustment algorithm could be fitted to the rider's telemetry data. This trained algorithm, along with a simpler onboard telemetry unit (which should be available in the next year or two), would allow the suspension to 'learn' the course conditions as the rider takes their race run, and adjust settings according to conditions and anticipated obstacles.

This tech is very much within reach for top factory teams.

I think there would be too many variables to pass off too much decision making to a computer beyond using digital controls to better control mechanical functions, but I certainly foresee a day where a rider is shifting suspension tunes on the same interface they shift gears on.

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3/8/2019 1:47 AM

peecee wrote:

Not sure if this is a uni project or a company with a new bike maybe see it will grace the WC circuit under a lesser known rider who knows (please delete if it doesn't belong in this thread)




https://www.facebook.com/HardCoreIndustry/
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3/8/2019 5:39 AM





Matt Simmonds is in Portugal at the Bikepark Ponte de Lima, probably testing the Cannondale DH Proto.
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3/8/2019 7:53 AM

Big Bird wrote:

That almost looks like it could be a Pole DH bike. Sexy curves. Nice find.

POLE // CARBON
Pick one, not both.

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3/8/2019 10:01 AM

bulletbass man wrote:

I think there would be too many variables to pass off too much decision making to a computer beyond using digital controls to better control mechanical functions, but I certainly foresee a day where a rider is shifting suspension tunes on the same interface they shift gears on.

With the variety of sensors available on full telemetry rigs, I'd bet that a good learner could guess track conditions(moisture, dust), track wear-in, and account for these differences with suspension adjustments mid-run. With enough data per second, the large variable space can be condensed into a few confounding factors for suspension performance, which would greatly simplify the decision-making process for the computer.

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3/8/2019 11:04 AM

PeteB wrote:

With the variety of sensors available on full telemetry rigs, I'd bet that a good learner could guess track conditions(moisture, dust), track wear-in, and account for these differences with suspension adjustments mid-run. With enough data per second, the large variable space can be condensed into a few confounding factors for suspension performance, which would greatly simplify the decision-making process for the computer.

One problem is that it would still be a reactive system, it couldn’t sense what is coming and preemptively adjust, even if it learned from many runs, it would still only be working on statistical averages.

Another interesting topic would be whether the rider is able to adjust to suspension constantly changing its settings below them?

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3/8/2019 12:36 PM

bulletbass man wrote:

I think there would be too many variables to pass off too much decision making to a computer beyond using digital controls to better control mechanical functions, but I certainly foresee a day where a rider is shifting suspension tunes on the same interface they shift gears on.

PeteB wrote:

With the variety of sensors available on full telemetry rigs, I'd bet that a good learner could guess track conditions(moisture, dust), track wear-in, and account for these differences with suspension adjustments mid-run. With enough data per second, the large variable space can be condensed into a few confounding factors for suspension performance, which would greatly simplify the decision-making process for the computer.

Sonofbovril2 wrote:

One problem is that it would still be a reactive system, it couldn’t sense what is coming and preemptively adjust, even if it learned from many runs, it would still only be working on statistical averages.

Another interesting topic would be whether the rider is able to adjust to suspension constantly changing its settings below them?

I would say that such a system could anticipate and preemptively adjust, but it would take some real-world testing to prove my point.

The rider would determine their preference (prior to the race run) for how much the system can change, and when on the course it can change . This could be as simple as adding a click of compression for a certain section or feature of a course. But, the system would allow for any level of adjustment granularity, so the rider can determine exactly what should and should not be changing in a given situation. I anticipate the need for separate adjustment algorithms for each rider. That way, data collection and analysis can be optimized to their individual setup sensitivities.




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3/8/2019 1:06 PM

David.Max wrote:

It hard to tell, but it looks like Neko is using the e-bike version of the Quadiem on his bike https://trpcycling.com/product/g-spec-emtb/

I think I remember him running the same setup at some point last year as well. If you take a look at these close-ups from Gwin's instagram he's definitely running the e-mtb caliper, but he's also running a lever that looks a lot more like the traditional G-Spec Quadiem lever. I think the lever says G- Spec DH-R which isn't a product that's currently listed in their lineup. Any theories on why they're moving to the new caliper? Maybe better heat dissipation from using thicker 2.3mm rotors?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtbdSCoAJty/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

ps What's the trick to get instagram images to embed directly in the forum?

There’s a new trp DH brake, it’s called the DH-R, requires use of the 2.3mm rotor. Very code-esque caliper design. Still has same piston size and configuration. Think the levers are the same.

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3/8/2019 1:43 PM

watchcwgo wrote:

There’s a new trp DH brake, it’s called the DH-R, requires use of the 2.3mm rotor. Very code-esque caliper design. Still has same piston size and configuration. Think the levers are the same.

here they are from eurobike last year - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/TRPs-G-Spec-Brake-Line-Diversifies,2456

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3/8/2019 2:10 PM

Big Bird wrote:

That almost looks like it could be a Pole DH bike. Sexy curves. Nice find.

qblambda wrote:

POLE // CARBON
Pick one, not both.

Antidote or stuff like that...

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3/8/2019 3:47 PM

sideshow wrote:

Steve Bell keeping the Giant gent's bikes quiet... seriously, they are silence and it's erie.


Jacob is on the bush bashers. Pretty "handy" [l.o.l.] here at Windrock as there are some tight lines this weekend.

I'd be worried about the adhesive from that velcro melting all over the brake pads... Quiet maybe, unable to lock up the brakes definitely.

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3/9/2019 1:51 AM

Loris on the new Fox rampage helmet?

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3/9/2019 4:49 AM

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3/9/2019 5:49 AM

Big Bird wrote:

That almost looks like it could be a Pole DH bike. Sexy curves. Nice find.

qblambda wrote:

POLE // CARBON
Pick one, not both.

clem-mk wrote:

Antidote or stuff like that...

As I mentionedbefore

http://hcibikes.com/

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3/9/2019 7:05 AM

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3/10/2019 8:47 AM

To all you guys talking about self adjusting electronic suspension. What if it was set to adjust at a certain GPS coordinate? Basically set way points down a track and then program the suspension. It would only work for racing but it could be a large advantage.

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