2019 UCI World Cup Downhill Tech

Create New Tag

3/25/2019 2:13 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/25/2019 2:16 AM

tjbiker38 wrote:

I saw two of those bikes on the east coast in September. On of them was actually running two shocks, one being a coil shock but without a coil in the downtube and then an air shock above linkage. I was told not to say or post anything but we know what it is.....

Comparing both sets of photos made this post very very relevant all of a sudden...

|

3/25/2019 2:56 AM

Rui_Couto wrote:

Another pic of the new Cannondale.
Photo by Lino Correia.

Its also has an Idler pully so good to see Cannondale back with some craziness that has everyone talking just like the good old days.


|

3/25/2019 5:21 AM

Pulldamper. And a traditional spring setup. My guess.

And that they are toying with a new pull shock. I few pages ago you could see this bike(?) at whistler without the spring, so the might bring back a pull shock? But since it has the mounts for a regular shock as well, might be testing both, and a combination.

|

3/25/2019 7:44 AM

Screw the bike, is that an Alpinestars 1piece suit?!

|

3/25/2019 9:29 AM

Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy

|

3/25/2019 9:40 AM

SB14 wrote:

Pulldamper. And a traditional spring setup. My guess.

And that they are toying with a new pull shock. I few pages ago you could see this bike(?) at whistler without the spring, so the might bring back a pull shock? But since it has the mounts for a regular shock as well, might be testing both, and a combination.

Still looks to me like like a standard shock. Rocker pivots and pushes back down on it. I think his leg is hiding the upper and lower mounting points for the other shocks mounting bracket. Think they just left a standard damper with no spring on it in the screen grabs.

|

3/25/2019 10:18 AM

It appears to be linkage to in some way stabilizer the rear triangle at the top which makes sense given there aren't any upper pivot points that I see.

|

3/25/2019 10:32 AM

Since this thread seems to be more of an any AM/DH tech rummer thread, check the build kits on this bike,

thttps://www.liteville.com/en/412/bikes/301-mk15/werksmaschine/301-mk15-sram-eagle-x01-axs/

We knew the lyric and pike were coming but it looks like there will be new brakes as well. Also, the fact that they appear in build kits bodes well for their being inventory on launch (looking at you Shimano).

|

3/25/2019 10:38 AM

watchcwgo wrote:

Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy

The thing that´s weird though is that the frame doesn´t look like a proto. It looks like a production carbon frame.
If this was a prototype, fine, but going carbon proto seems rather excessive and cost inefficient. So why build in that top tube mount if it´s not gonna do anything in the end?
In the end it seems like a lot of trouble to go through just so people don´t get what´s going on.

Obviously the linkage is theoretically able to compress two shocks at once.
My guess, the upper coil does work as a pure spring and rebound control unit, while the lower damper serves as a seperate compression damping unit. That way we would finally end up with completely independent damping circuits.
They probably tested it with the single lower shock for lower spec versions or as a "freeride" setup for people who don´t want to fiddle with two shocks.
I don´t know if this would even work though. Any engineers around who can comment?

|

3/25/2019 10:54 AM

watchcwgo wrote:

Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy

Loki87 wrote:

The thing that´s weird though is that the frame doesn´t look like a proto. It looks like a production carbon frame.
If this was a prototype, fine, but going carbon proto seems rather excessive and cost inefficient. So why build in that top tube mount if it´s not gonna do anything in the end?
In the end it seems like a lot of trouble to go through just so people don´t get what´s going on.

Obviously the linkage is theoretically able to compress two shocks at once.
My guess, the upper coil does work as a pure spring and rebound control unit, while the lower damper serves as a seperate compression damping unit. That way we would finally end up with completely independent damping circuits.
They probably tested it with the single lower shock for lower spec versions or as a "freeride" setup for people who don´t want to fiddle with two shocks.
I don´t know if this would even work though. Any engineers around who can comment?

A little birdie may or may not have peeped that there is no plan for this bike to make it to the market. FRO, would explain why. Could be an investment in a testing platform for other products.

Might seem weird, but Dorel has resources and $$ to burn.

|

3/25/2019 10:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/25/2019 10:58 AM

watchcwgo wrote:

Pretty sure that upper shock is fake. Been looking at these photos (on my phone so not the best) for a minute and the coil spacing is the same in every shot, no sign of compression in any of them.

It also seems like the rear is mostly unloaded in every shot too, so hard to say, but we have seen this same bike with a full spring/damper setup in the downtube. I think this is definitely a decoy

Nope ive seen the bike in person and it was running a air shock in the upper position and a coil shock on the lower mount with no coil. The air shock had to be real in order to provide the spring.

|

3/25/2019 12:40 PM

Hyperpower! wrote:

It doesn't seem to have a reservoir indeed.




It sure seems there are multiple test frames out there, some with upper and lower shock options and one with only the upper... Hard to say but it seems like the bottom of the down tube has an access point to hide some stuff too.

|

3/26/2019 2:14 AM

dmcd38 wrote:

lots of clips with Matt Simmons on the new cannondale bike

Matt Simmons
@0:06
@5:26
@14:23

Watched it several times at 0.25x speed. Hard to tell whether the coil is compressing.


|

3/26/2019 5:01 AM

dmcd38 wrote:

lots of clips with Matt Simmons on the new cannondale bike

pyromaniac wrote:

Matt Simmons
@0:06
@5:26
@14:23

Watched it several times at 0.25x speed. Hard to tell whether the coil is compressing.


Matt Simmonds is wearing number 105 and we spotted him at 0:05, 5:26, 10:00, 10:52 and 14:24

|

3/26/2019 8:26 AM

Last few shots of Danny Hart on his insta have him running a Monster branded D3. Still tagging Lazer in his photos with no reference to TLD. Have I missed something?

|

3/27/2019 12:47 PM

The coil doesnt look likeit has a piggy back lie the normal DHX2... Separate damper and spring seems more and more likely.



|

3/28/2019 8:03 AM


https://www.instagram.com/p/Bve1tsngBSx/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=auuf61ary3aa

Bike has two shox’s One works only with spring and the other works only hydraulic.
|

3/28/2019 8:19 AM

Caetanix wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bve1tsngBSx/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=auuf61ary3aa

Bike has two shox’s One works only with spring and the other works only hydraulic.

He's riding a dropper too

|

3/28/2019 10:02 AM

qblambda wrote:

He's riding a dropper too

That looks more like a Pro Tharsis seat post than the new axs dropper.

|

2017 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR expert 29er
2015 Specialized Camber Comp Custom Build

3/28/2019 1:22 PM


|

3/29/2019 2:31 AM

Santa Cruz feeding the forum again, this time its bike weights.

Minnaar 17.41kg
Shaw 17.71kg
Vergier 16.91kg



|

3/29/2019 3:22 AM

Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...

|

3/29/2019 3:33 AM

qblambda wrote:

Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...

Longer frames and larger wheels are where the extra weight would come from.

For comparison, Minnaar's 2011 worlds bike weighed in at 15.87 kg https://www.sicklines.com/2011/04/01/santa-cruz-syndicate-preps-for-world-cup-greg-minnaar-bike-check/

|

3/29/2019 5:52 AM

qblambda wrote:

Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...

Dylan wrote:

Longer frames and larger wheels are where the extra weight would come from.

For comparison, Minnaar's 2011 worlds bike weighed in at 15.87 kg https://www.sicklines.com/2011/04/01/santa-cruz-syndicate-preps-for-world-cup-greg-minnaar-bike-check/

The Trek Session 9.9 29 XL is 15.36kg, aluminium wheels, saint groupset. Less than the 26" you pointed.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-session-99-29-review.html
The Cube 215 is also very competitive in aluminium...

Sure longer bike and bigger wheels may rise the weight, but years of research and experience are supposed to lower that weight too.
Those Santas are heavy.

I do ride a 29er 2018 Gambler in L +7 reach at 16.21kg tho...

|

3/29/2019 6:35 AM

I also think the lighter frame and, potentially wheels, allow them to have heavier parts in other areas and stay at a weight they want. Who knows, they may also be fucking with us.

|

3/29/2019 7:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/29/2019 7:23 AM

assegai 29er dh casing weight from our test last year. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really pedally track or tight/twisty, would these weights be bad? stability in spades, right?

|

3/29/2019 8:00 AM

qblambda wrote:

Those are extremely heavy considering the amount of carbon...

Dylan wrote:

Longer frames and larger wheels are where the extra weight would come from.

For comparison, Minnaar's 2011 worlds bike weighed in at 15.87 kg https://www.sicklines.com/2011/04/01/santa-cruz-syndicate-preps-for-world-cup-greg-minnaar-bike-check/

qblambda wrote:

The Trek Session 9.9 29 XL is 15.36kg, aluminium wheels, saint groupset. Less than the 26" you pointed.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-session-99-29-review.html
The Cube 215 is also very competitive in aluminium...

Sure longer bike and bigger wheels may rise the weight, but years of research and experience are supposed to lower that weight too.
Those Santas are heavy.

I do ride a 29er 2018 Gambler in L +7 reach at 16.21kg tho...

add two pieces of cush core and you are on the scale, also honestly I would say for DH the edge of where the bike is too light could be around 15,5kg, it can be just a feeling, but I don´t like to ride really light bikes on gnarly trails, first thing is just the feeling is not so reliable, the second is that the heavier bikes sits better on track and not jumping around

|

3/29/2019 8:10 AM

sspomer wrote:

assegai 29er dh casing weight from our test last year. not sure if breaker+ is more or less. it all adds up but unless a really pedally track or tight/twisty, would these weights be bad? stability in spades, right?

Maybe if there were a track that required constant accelerations the added weight might be detrimental, but that doesn't really describe a modern DH track. The same could be said about 29 inch wheels, but the fact that almost everyone has made the move to the bigger wheels suggests more of a premium on maintaining and gaining speed, and a heavy tire while being more difficult to accelerate is also going to hold that momentum once up to pace (much like a 29 inch wheel). I believe it was Graves who mentioned this at Worlds in South Africa a few years back when asked why he was running DH tires when so many other riders were chancing it with trail casings, on a track with few slow speed accelerations he felt the heavier tires actually helped.

That said, I think most casual observers might be shocked at just how heavy both World Cup DH and EWS enduro bikes are compared to the stock versions, and how little the racers are concerned about it. Bike weight just doesn't seem to be a metric that greatly impacts race performance nearly as much as it does sales.

|

3/29/2019 8:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/29/2019 8:35 AM

just put up florian's bike from tasmania
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Whats-Stock-Whats-Not-Tasmania-Enduro-World-Series,12304/Whats-Stock-Whats-Not-Florian-Nicolais-Canyon-Strive-29,128720/sspomer,2

he's full DH casing because he likes the feel. it's been mentioned numerous times by plenty of riders, but the damping and feel of heavier tires or setups w/ inserts seems to be embraced for performance. just like you're saying lee, weight is not an issue for serious competitors in these gravity disciplines. grip and momentum is what counts. i've been on some lighter-casing tires lately and i really dislike rocky sections as they feel like balloons or beach balls getting bounced around. they're fun going up, but not worth the trade-off personally.

|

3/29/2019 8:39 AM

MPH24 wrote:

I also think the lighter frame and, potentially wheels, allow them to have heavier parts in other areas and stay at a weight they want. Who knows, they may also be fucking with us.

Releasing wrong weight numbers for trolling purposes seems like a darn dumb thing to do for a bike manufacturer though, given how obsessed bikers are still with weight.
I know they like to troll but...nah, i really don´t think those weights are off

|