I have no idea what are you talking about?I don't see any "hardcore" riders getting on e-bikes around this part of the world. I do see...
I have no idea what are you talking about?
I don't see any "hardcore" riders getting on e-bikes around this part of the world. I do see many e-bikes, but most of them are sticking to blue trails and generally ridden by people I wouldn't have seen on trails before. The "hardcore" riders still ride mountain bikes just like before around here, with a few exceptions obviously.
There's definitely no shortage of a market for long travel enduro bikes. There's also a plenty of reasons not to get a Turbo Levo or any other eMTB over an actual MTB.
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁
Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are definitely being replaced by long travel e-bikes, regardless of the rider's "hardcoreness" or the trail difficulty. It'd be a different story if there was a performance hit, but they tend to be faster descenders, in addition to being able to self shuttle back up the mountain. More laps, more performance.
Hell, I ride my e-dreadnought at lift service bike parks just as often as I ride my acoustic dreadnought v2 or dh bike there. It's difficult to rationalize having an acoustic enduro bike at this point. DH bike, lt e-bike, and short travel trail bike is the move nowadays.
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are...
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁
Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are definitely being replaced by long travel e-bikes, regardless of the rider's "hardcoreness" or the trail difficulty. It'd be a different story if there was a performance hit, but they tend to be faster descenders, in addition to being able to self shuttle back up the mountain. More laps, more performance.
Hell, I ride my e-dreadnought at lift service bike parks just as often as I ride my acoustic dreadnought v2 or dh bike there. It's difficult to rationalize having an acoustic enduro bike at this point. DH bike, lt e-bike, and short travel trail bike is the move nowadays.
this trend will accelerate in 27/28 with the arrival of the gearbox motors. ditching the derailleur will be the beginning of the end for mainstream mountainbikes...
I have no idea what are you talking about?I don't see any "hardcore" riders getting on e-bikes around this part of the world. I do see...
I have no idea what are you talking about?
I don't see any "hardcore" riders getting on e-bikes around this part of the world. I do see many e-bikes, but most of them are sticking to blue trails and generally ridden by people I wouldn't have seen on trails before. The "hardcore" riders still ride mountain bikes just like before around here, with a few exceptions obviously.
There's definitely no shortage of a market for long travel enduro bikes. There's also a plenty of reasons not to get a Turbo Levo or any other eMTB over an actual MTB.
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are...
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁
Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are definitely being replaced by long travel e-bikes, regardless of the rider's "hardcoreness" or the trail difficulty. It'd be a different story if there was a performance hit, but they tend to be faster descenders, in addition to being able to self shuttle back up the mountain. More laps, more performance.
Hell, I ride my e-dreadnought at lift service bike parks just as often as I ride my acoustic dreadnought v2 or dh bike there. It's difficult to rationalize having an acoustic enduro bike at this point. DH bike, lt e-bike, and short travel trail bike is the move nowadays.
I have never loved a bike more than my Madonna. I ride it everywhere and can't imagine much being better, BUT...
I think my ideal three bike lineup would be a longer travel ebike (ONLY because I live in the Canadian Rockies and our climb trails are like, 10% grade), a single speed DH/park bike and a short travel down-country. And a gravel bike. And a DJ... Lol
I have never loved a bike more than my Madonna. I ride it everywhere and can't imagine much being better, BUT...I think my ideal three bike...
I have never loved a bike more than my Madonna. I ride it everywhere and can't imagine much being better, BUT...
I think my ideal three bike lineup would be a longer travel ebike (ONLY because I live in the Canadian Rockies and our climb trails are like, 10% grade), a single speed DH/park bike and a short travel down-country. And a gravel bike. And a DJ... Lol
You'd love the e-dread if you love the madonna.
Similar feel but with power for more laps, and even more composed at speed.
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are...
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁
Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are definitely being replaced by long travel e-bikes, regardless of the rider's "hardcoreness" or the trail difficulty. It'd be a different story if there was a performance hit, but they tend to be faster descenders, in addition to being able to self shuttle back up the mountain. More laps, more performance.
Hell, I ride my e-dreadnought at lift service bike parks just as often as I ride my acoustic dreadnought v2 or dh bike there. It's difficult to rationalize having an acoustic enduro bike at this point. DH bike, lt e-bike, and short travel trail bike is the move nowadays.
There are still plenty of purists who just don't want to ride an ebike, but still want an enduro bike.
BUT, most 2020 enduro bikes ride just as good as a new one, AND, like mentioned before, a modular park/enduro bike makes more sense. RIP enduro.
There are still plenty of purists who just don't want to ride an ebike, but still want an enduro bike. BUT, most 2020 enduro bikes ride just...
There are still plenty of purists who just don't want to ride an ebike, but still want an enduro bike.
BUT, most 2020 enduro bikes ride just as good as a new one, AND, like mentioned before, a modular park/enduro bike makes more sense. RIP enduro.
Sure, that's what the short travel acoustic bike is for.
I don't know about other people, but I rode lt enduro bikes because they were the fastest thing around for descending while still being able to pedal up the mountain. I was somewhat horrified to find myself cranking out faster descending times on the e-bike much of the time. Kind of ruined lt enduro bikes for me.
I suppose it matters what the definition of "hardcore" means in the original comment. It sort of sounded like the intent was that e-bike riders are just muppets puttering down the blue trails (and some are 🤣). Most of the fast guys here are dh bike/lt e-bike. The "hardcore" dudes on their 2019 canyon and speshy enduros are quickly becoming the new single speed hardtail dudes. More laps makes you better, and the e-bikes do that.
I tried a rallon in dh trim this summer, it fell short of something like a supreme, v10, or supernought. I like the idea of a do it all bike, but it's dang hard to pull off. I'm not sure anyone has yet.
@Konaworld Should make a new stab and reenter the world cup scene, we lost GT, we have just lost Cannondale, Yeti are back now lets see Kona make a comeback as we miss the Misser, Beaumont, Mosley, and Barel days as well as the Clump freeride days and Robbie Bourdon at Rampage! Even Minnaar was on Kona at the start also
I think the depression of the current market may work to Specializes advantage. Specifically in the marketing side of things. Right now a lot of hard...
I think the depression of the current market may work to Specializes advantage. Specifically in the marketing side of things. Right now a lot of hard core people look at enduro bikes and shrug their shoulders because 140-150mm travel frames can be customized to take such a beating. But everyone outside of this hardcore label with money will eat up Specialized marketing. That their Enduro bike will be 10 years in the making. They will advertise this thing as the second coming of Jesus for the enduro genre. It will be a new beast, unlike the old generation of enduro bikes.
I dont know if this will be the case but I can see the bike being just like the Orbea in that it can become a downhill bike or an enduro bike. Even though they have the Demo, that will be the fine wine of the line up. The enduro will be the weapon of choice for the majority that are not racing.
All Im saying is, we doubt Specialize, but their marketing gets a lot of people hooked.
Good argument, and just providing a counterpoint from only one specific part of the world: I am constantly looking at the bikes I see around Laguna...
Good argument, and just providing a counterpoint from only one specific part of the world: I am constantly looking at the bikes I see around Laguna and Aliso, and unless Specialized somehow makes the new Enduro not a pain to climb then otherwise I don’t see why hardcore riders with money would purchase the Enduro over a similar priced Turbo Levo or other eMTB. Also despite how good Specialized’s marketing is perceived to be, it cannot make up for product shortcomings even in the market areas that are growing (eMTBs: see massive Turbo Levo price cuts). It’s truly an uphill battle (pun partially intended) to convince people to spend $$$ on an Enduro when more riders of varying fitness levels and technical riding capabilities would be able to ride the same trails more times for roughly the same cost with an enduro-class eMTB.
It feels like Specialized sat on the Enduro for too many years while the average customer shifted their interest from MTB to eMTB. We will see though, and I hope I’m wrong and wish Specialized success 🙏🏽
The enduro from ‘07 on was always pretty good on climbs. Granted, weights went up with travel and slackened geos… and I haven’t ridden the most recent one. But if the argument for not buying one is due to your legs and lungs sucking, that’s not entirely the bike’s fault.
From my wizarding, I’ve deduced there used to be a lot more “climb adverse” people out there who were more on the husky side of life and pushed uphill while complaining the whole time. Many in this Enduro-bro group were buying 170mm enduro bikes to more or less suffer going up for more fun going down. This group is/was the largest buyers into the enduro market. Then Poof! E-bikes entered the scene and these overweight people bought them in droves to full power up climbs and brag about how awesome they are.
I don’t know what the So Cal climbs are like, but I do know what pedaling a Spesh Enduro in Henry Coe SP feels like, and that’s home territory for Spesh (those climbs are hellacious btw). As a former field tester for them who has moved onto other brands 10+ years ago, they made better climbing Enduro-style bikes than most. And with all the Santa Cruz magic 30 minutes away, I’ve seen quite a few husky people nicknamed “Lunchbox” who switched to e-bikes to finally have an unfair bragging advantage over others.
The problem isn’t the bike. The problem is more and more people want to consume Doritos and Monster and let the motor do the work.
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that...
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
This summer I experimented with a dual crown enduro park bike (v1 Dreadnought, Boxxer, single speed), along with my Madonna. It was SUPER fun on A-Line, Dirt Merchant, etc, but at the end of the day, too much overlap with my Madonna (and I like the RAAW better). I ended up selling the Dreadnought and the eventual plan will be a full 200/200 dh bike for when I venture outside of the jump lines into more tech/dh stuff.
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that...
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
I agree that it will never be as good as a dedicated Dh bike(even though Orbea has pretty good results with their modular enduro/Dh bike, cracking aside), but it will be more than enough for 95% of riders wanting a Dh bike. And if I’m a bike company, I’ll take the loss on those 5% to accommodate 95% and cut my investment costs from 2 bikes to 1. Look at it as not the future of dh bikes but more of the future of long travel enduro bikes
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that...
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
I agree that it will never be as good as a dedicated Dh bike(even though Orbea has pretty good results with their modular enduro/Dh bike, cracking...
I agree that it will never be as good as a dedicated Dh bike(even though Orbea has pretty good results with their modular enduro/Dh bike, cracking aside), but it will be more than enough for 95% of riders wanting a Dh bike. And if I’m a bike company, I’ll take the loss on those 5% to accommodate 95% and cut my investment costs from 2 bikes to 1. Look at it as not the future of dh bikes but more of the future of long travel enduro bikes
Unless your DH bike is a marketing project to showcase the company and you don't care how many you sell (as you sell very few anyway) and you just want to make the best DH bike that you can for your WC team.
Considering the sales numbers being thrown around for DH bikes over the years and considering what's happening with Enduro, long travel enduro bikes and long travel ebikes, I think it makes more sense to make a proper DH bike and have the next one in the lineup be something around 160 as far as non electric bikes goes...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that...
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
100%. Got back into being a summer park fiend 4 years ago almost exactly as you described, ride park all summer during the weekends and would only do big trail rides in the winter. Spent 3 of those years building up a "parked" stumpy evo, cascade, coil F&R, 180mm zeb etc. Wasn't enough, bought a proper enduro bike rallied it hard enough to break it. Had fun but yet felt that in the tech I was having to ride at 110% to keep the speed but was crashing, breaking bones and bikes...
Built a Dh bike this year and wished that I hadn't been so stupid putting it off for so long. Kept telling myself the big hitting enduro bike will do it all... It won't. 2 months later 6 guys in my group all bought DH bikes and we now have 2x the number of dudes that will come out on any given weekend. Most bought used and paid on average $2k for some really really rad bikes in phenomenal condition.
The used DH market is on fire right now and it's almost dumb not to spring for it considering the deals that are out there. I would never go back to using anything but my Dh bike at a bike park, the maintenance aspect of it is huge. Its not hard to total 15-25k of elevation in a weekend at a park, do that 2, 3, 10 weekends back-to-back, that will clap the sh*t out of any trail or enduro bike. Dont get me wrong I love working on bikes, but the amount of maintenance needed to get the whip ready for weekday rides when your hammering laps on the weekend on the same bike is no joke.
IMO the one bike quiver, do it all machine, is a myth. It's just chasing the dragon.
WRPs glimpse on IG of the Cassette in a Can is pretty rad!
WRPs glimpse on IG of the Cassette in a Can is pretty rad!
I am just going to say this... Fuck that guy. I wouldn't buy anything from him again. He is doing some cool shit and thats why I bought from him in the first place but until he starts to fulfill orders hes a scammer and people need to stop giving him attention.
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are...
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁
Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are definitely being replaced by long travel e-bikes, regardless of the rider's "hardcoreness" or the trail difficulty. It'd be a different story if there was a performance hit, but they tend to be faster descenders, in addition to being able to self shuttle back up the mountain. More laps, more performance.
Hell, I ride my e-dreadnought at lift service bike parks just as often as I ride my acoustic dreadnought v2 or dh bike there. It's difficult to rationalize having an acoustic enduro bike at this point. DH bike, lt e-bike, and short travel trail bike is the move nowadays.
Not in squamish anyways. Not saying there isn't more e bikes than before. But building trails nearly every day, say meadow of a griz sees 90% e-bikes,while adjacent 19th or Grin'n'holler is 90% bikes.
Similar at Alice lake. It's just one market, but there sure is a lot of new long travel bikes being ridden and I don't see that changing drastically too soon.
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of...
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that...
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
100%. Got back into being a summer park fiend 4 years ago almost exactly as you described, ride park all summer during the weekends and would...
100%. Got back into being a summer park fiend 4 years ago almost exactly as you described, ride park all summer during the weekends and would only do big trail rides in the winter. Spent 3 of those years building up a "parked" stumpy evo, cascade, coil F&R, 180mm zeb etc. Wasn't enough, bought a proper enduro bike rallied it hard enough to break it. Had fun but yet felt that in the tech I was having to ride at 110% to keep the speed but was crashing, breaking bones and bikes...
Built a Dh bike this year and wished that I hadn't been so stupid putting it off for so long. Kept telling myself the big hitting enduro bike will do it all... It won't. 2 months later 6 guys in my group all bought DH bikes and we now have 2x the number of dudes that will come out on any given weekend. Most bought used and paid on average $2k for some really really rad bikes in phenomenal condition.
The used DH market is on fire right now and it's almost dumb not to spring for it considering the deals that are out there. I would never go back to using anything but my Dh bike at a bike park, the maintenance aspect of it is huge. Its not hard to total 15-25k of elevation in a weekend at a park, do that 2, 3, 10 weekends back-to-back, that will clap the sh*t out of any trail or enduro bike. Dont get me wrong I love working on bikes, but the amount of maintenance needed to get the whip ready for weekday rides when your hammering laps on the weekend on the same bike is no joke.
IMO the one bike quiver, do it all machine, is a myth. It's just chasing the dragon.
I have a quiver killer bike. Nicolai G1 with manitou dorado 203mm and rear cane creek kitsuma 211mm travel. 22x15/52 gearing, 200mm dropper, MX wheels. I ride bikepark and my local trails with only a slight tyre swap and shock position change. Sure the bike weighs 19kg but I've gotten used to it. I have no interest in ever riding a whimpy single crown enduro bike.
As fit enduro bikers, trail bike lovers and parents with a shotgun seat the wife bought a Trek Rail and I bought a decked out Vala last year (because my wife "convinced" me, we needed that, all the cool influencer, former EWS racer moms have them). With the shotgun seat it was curious fun for a bit, until our son told us, he also wants a bike with a motor.
After a couple of weeks with the emtbs we realised that something was missing. After the honeymoon-phase we rode eco-mode almost exclusively, the emtbs weren´t as fun (for us) as our regular bikes and we were missing the feeling of earning our turns/descents.
We sold both emtbs and since both have a nice trail bike fitted with XC tires - and THOSE are fun, fast and effortless and incredibly capable. And we also both have fat enduro bikes with sticky tires and lots of travel. And they are also fun. We are fit and enjoy biking more than ever. I have absolutely nothing against someone enjoying their emtbs. Enjoy yourselves. But I strongly disagree if anyone calls them the be all end all for everybody.
My wife and I have zero (0!) interest on emtbs after trying and owning them (with our own money). But we've been riding regular mtbs for 25+ years and hope for another 25 ;-)
PS: I just wrote this post to be able to mention that I ordered a Nomad 7 frame kit and am giddy as a kid for it...
Just to chime in on this - wife and I each have 3 bikes. I know because of storage space and cash flow reasons this is definitely not for everybody - but we've been working long enough to indulge ourselves a little bit in this hobby. We each have one short travel trail bike for pedal days, one park bike, and one mid-long travel ebike. The use case for the short travel trail bike and the ebike is actually very different. The trail bike is amazing for very close to home trails and getting a good workout, plus sometimes you WANT to feel the burn/pain. The ebike is mostly for doing enduro style trails where pedaling is mostly done on the fireroad or a dedicated climbing trail and all you care about is the downhill and more laps. Then because we live so close to Mountain Creek we have a park bike for riding there. We used to not have the ebike and it was just 2 bikes each between the 2 of us - but on it is sketchy to attempt something on a 125 rear travel norco optic. I would probably sub out the ebike for a regular enduro bike if I were more fit, but as it stands it's a great bridge gap solution (for our fitness).
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that...
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
100%. Got back into being a summer park fiend 4 years ago almost exactly as you described, ride park all summer during the weekends and would...
100%. Got back into being a summer park fiend 4 years ago almost exactly as you described, ride park all summer during the weekends and would only do big trail rides in the winter. Spent 3 of those years building up a "parked" stumpy evo, cascade, coil F&R, 180mm zeb etc. Wasn't enough, bought a proper enduro bike rallied it hard enough to break it. Had fun but yet felt that in the tech I was having to ride at 110% to keep the speed but was crashing, breaking bones and bikes...
Built a Dh bike this year and wished that I hadn't been so stupid putting it off for so long. Kept telling myself the big hitting enduro bike will do it all... It won't. 2 months later 6 guys in my group all bought DH bikes and we now have 2x the number of dudes that will come out on any given weekend. Most bought used and paid on average $2k for some really really rad bikes in phenomenal condition.
The used DH market is on fire right now and it's almost dumb not to spring for it considering the deals that are out there. I would never go back to using anything but my Dh bike at a bike park, the maintenance aspect of it is huge. Its not hard to total 15-25k of elevation in a weekend at a park, do that 2, 3, 10 weekends back-to-back, that will clap the sh*t out of any trail or enduro bike. Dont get me wrong I love working on bikes, but the amount of maintenance needed to get the whip ready for weekday rides when your hammering laps on the weekend on the same bike is no joke.
IMO the one bike quiver, do it all machine, is a myth. It's just chasing the dragon.
I have a quiver killer bike. Nicolai G1 with manitou dorado 203mm and rear cane creek kitsuma 211mm travel. 22x15/52 gearing, 200mm dropper, MX wheels. I...
I have a quiver killer bike. Nicolai G1 with manitou dorado 203mm and rear cane creek kitsuma 211mm travel. 22x15/52 gearing, 200mm dropper, MX wheels. I ride bikepark and my local trails with only a slight tyre swap and shock position change. Sure the bike weighs 19kg but I've gotten used to it. I have no interest in ever riding a whimpy single crown enduro bike.
Sounds like a fun bike, but that's not really a quiver killer. No matter what you do that's not going to pedal like a 32lb carbon 150/160mm bike. Hardly what you want to take for a hot lap after work when you have an hour to get a good rip in. Ive pedaled 40lb long travel enduro bikes for years, it sucks.
My whole point was, just because it can do it, doesn't mean it's good at it. My DH bike is a custom Vessle (VBP), 80-degree STA, 62.5 HA, 215mm of travel. Like the G1 with a link swap I can drop that down to 180 and toss a single crown fork on it to reign in the HA and turn it into an short travel weapon. Can I yes, will I, absolutely not. I'd much rather grab the purpose-built trail bike that is ready to go, pedals better and is way more fun to thrash around on than a soft and supple DH bike. YMMV.
It’s definitely wrapped, there is a lot of orange peaking through. A new alloy Operator would be so sick!
Please god Kona make a new operator.
process x dh kinda fills that niche
Not nearly as well, having 200+ mm of rear travel does make a real difference in how the bike feels.
this.
Pretty popular here in western canada. And a blue trail here is like a double black pro line in california 😁
Long travel acoustic enduro bikes are definitely being replaced by long travel e-bikes, regardless of the rider's "hardcoreness" or the trail difficulty. It'd be a different story if there was a performance hit, but they tend to be faster descenders, in addition to being able to self shuttle back up the mountain. More laps, more performance.
Hell, I ride my e-dreadnought at lift service bike parks just as often as I ride my acoustic dreadnought v2 or dh bike there. It's difficult to rationalize having an acoustic enduro bike at this point. DH bike, lt e-bike, and short travel trail bike is the move nowadays.
The future of long travel enduro bikes is being modular and compatible with dual crown forks to double as park/DH bikes. It makes a ton of sense from a company and manufacturing perspective
this trend will accelerate in 27/28 with the arrival of the gearbox motors. ditching the derailleur will be the beginning of the end for mainstream mountainbikes...
I have never loved a bike more than my Madonna. I ride it everywhere and can't imagine much being better, BUT...
I think my ideal three bike lineup would be a longer travel ebike (ONLY because I live in the Canadian Rockies and our climb trails are like, 10% grade), a single speed DH/park bike and a short travel down-country. And a gravel bike. And a DJ... Lol
You'd love the e-dread if you love the madonna.
Similar feel but with power for more laps, and even more composed at speed.
There are still plenty of purists who just don't want to ride an ebike, but still want an enduro bike.
BUT, most 2020 enduro bikes ride just as good as a new one, AND, like mentioned before, a modular park/enduro bike makes more sense. RIP enduro.
Sure, that's what the short travel acoustic bike is for.
I don't know about other people, but I rode lt enduro bikes because they were the fastest thing around for descending while still being able to pedal up the mountain. I was somewhat horrified to find myself cranking out faster descending times on the e-bike much of the time. Kind of ruined lt enduro bikes for me.
I suppose it matters what the definition of "hardcore" means in the original comment. It sort of sounded like the intent was that e-bike riders are just muppets puttering down the blue trails (and some are 🤣). Most of the fast guys here are dh bike/lt e-bike. The "hardcore" dudes on their 2019 canyon and speshy enduros are quickly becoming the new single speed hardtail dudes. More laps makes you better, and the e-bikes do that.
I tried a rallon in dh trim this summer, it fell short of something like a supreme, v10, or supernought. I like the idea of a do it all bike, but it's dang hard to pull off. I'm not sure anyone has yet.
@Konaworld Should make a new stab and reenter the world cup scene, we lost GT, we have just lost Cannondale, Yeti are back now lets see Kona make a comeback as we miss the Misser, Beaumont, Mosley, and Barel days as well as the Clump freeride days and Robbie Bourdon at Rampage! Even Minnaar was on Kona at the start also
Minnaar Kona Stab
The enduro from ‘07 on was always pretty good on climbs. Granted, weights went up with travel and slackened geos… and I haven’t ridden the most recent one. But if the argument for not buying one is due to your legs and lungs sucking, that’s not entirely the bike’s fault.
From my wizarding, I’ve deduced there used to be a lot more “climb adverse” people out there who were more on the husky side of life and pushed uphill while complaining the whole time. Many in this Enduro-bro group were buying 170mm enduro bikes to more or less suffer going up for more fun going down. This group is/was the largest buyers into the enduro market. Then Poof! E-bikes entered the scene and these overweight people bought them in droves to full power up climbs and brag about how awesome they are.
I don’t know what the So Cal climbs are like, but I do know what pedaling a Spesh Enduro in Henry Coe SP feels like, and that’s home territory for Spesh (those climbs are hellacious btw). As a former field tester for them who has moved onto other brands 10+ years ago, they made better climbing Enduro-style bikes than most. And with all the Santa Cruz magic 30 minutes away, I’ve seen quite a few husky people nicknamed “Lunchbox” who switched to e-bikes to finally have an unfair bragging advantage over others.
The problem isn’t the bike. The problem is more and more people want to consume Doritos and Monster and let the motor do the work.
WRPs glimpse on IG of the Cassette in a Can is pretty rad!
Adam(owner of revel bikes) posted this on his story. Looks like a 3d titanium printed lugged bike releasing tomorrow.
https://revelbikes.com/products/ranger-ti-frame-kit
I don’t actually agree with this to a certain degree.
I do agree every bike with 165 or more rear travel should be dc compatible. And that there is a a real magic to a do it all bike in this travel range. Whether it’s that your pedal trails are gnarly enough to enjoy a dual crown. Or you rather simply just have one bike to ride and prefer that comfort over any optimization to be had by having two bikes. Maybe you truly only ride park in summer and only do trail riding when the lift is closed.
But at the same time, you can’t truly optimize a trail bike to be a dh bike and vice versa. Now I do think some riders may be better suited with a “parked” trail bike rather than a dedicated park bike. If your idea of a park day is just hitting the jump lines then you probably are best off with a beefy trail bike and single versus dual crown probably is a user preference.
But I think if you are going to spend 15 or more days riding park a year and are going to spend equal time on tech trails you are probably way better off with a used dh bike and keep your trail bike as it is. Especially if the locals your hitting on a Tuesday are just going to be hampered with a heavier, plusher, fork.
This summer I experimented with a dual crown enduro park bike (v1 Dreadnought, Boxxer, single speed), along with my Madonna. It was SUPER fun on A-Line, Dirt Merchant, etc, but at the end of the day, too much overlap with my Madonna (and I like the RAAW better). I ended up selling the Dreadnought and the eventual plan will be a full 200/200 dh bike for when I venture outside of the jump lines into more tech/dh stuff.
I agree that it will never be as good as a dedicated Dh bike(even though Orbea has pretty good results with their modular enduro/Dh bike, cracking aside), but it will be more than enough for 95% of riders wanting a Dh bike. And if I’m a bike company, I’ll take the loss on those 5% to accommodate 95% and cut my investment costs from 2 bikes to 1. Look at it as not the future of dh bikes but more of the future of long travel enduro bikes
Makes the Esker Howdy Ti look like a steal.
Unless your DH bike is a marketing project to showcase the company and you don't care how many you sell (as you sell very few anyway) and you just want to make the best DH bike that you can for your WC team.
Considering the sales numbers being thrown around for DH bikes over the years and considering what's happening with Enduro, long travel enduro bikes and long travel ebikes, I think it makes more sense to make a proper DH bike and have the next one in the lineup be something around 160 as far as non electric bikes goes...
100%. Got back into being a summer park fiend 4 years ago almost exactly as you described, ride park all summer during the weekends and would only do big trail rides in the winter. Spent 3 of those years building up a "parked" stumpy evo, cascade, coil F&R, 180mm zeb etc. Wasn't enough, bought a proper enduro bike rallied it hard enough to break it. Had fun but yet felt that in the tech I was having to ride at 110% to keep the speed but was crashing, breaking bones and bikes...
Built a Dh bike this year and wished that I hadn't been so stupid putting it off for so long. Kept telling myself the big hitting enduro bike will do it all... It won't. 2 months later 6 guys in my group all bought DH bikes and we now have 2x the number of dudes that will come out on any given weekend. Most bought used and paid on average $2k for some really really rad bikes in phenomenal condition.
The used DH market is on fire right now and it's almost dumb not to spring for it considering the deals that are out there. I would never go back to using anything but my Dh bike at a bike park, the maintenance aspect of it is huge. Its not hard to total 15-25k of elevation in a weekend at a park, do that 2, 3, 10 weekends back-to-back, that will clap the sh*t out of any trail or enduro bike. Dont get me wrong I love working on bikes, but the amount of maintenance needed to get the whip ready for weekday rides when your hammering laps on the weekend on the same bike is no joke.
IMO the one bike quiver, do it all machine, is a myth. It's just chasing the dragon.
I am just going to say this... Fuck that guy. I wouldn't buy anything from him again. He is doing some cool shit and thats why I bought from him in the first place but until he starts to fulfill orders hes a scammer and people need to stop giving him attention.
Not in squamish anyways. Not saying there isn't more e bikes than before. But building trails nearly every day, say meadow of a griz sees 90% e-bikes,while adjacent 19th or Grin'n'holler is 90% bikes.
Similar at Alice lake. It's just one market, but there sure is a lot of new long travel bikes being ridden and I don't see that changing drastically too soon.
I have a quiver killer bike. Nicolai G1 with manitou dorado 203mm and rear cane creek kitsuma 211mm travel. 22x15/52 gearing, 200mm dropper, MX wheels. I ride bikepark and my local trails with only a slight tyre swap and shock position change. Sure the bike weighs 19kg but I've gotten used to it. I have no interest in ever riding a whimpy single crown enduro bike.
As fit enduro bikers, trail bike lovers and parents with a shotgun seat the wife bought a Trek Rail and I bought a decked out Vala last year (because my wife "convinced" me, we needed that, all the cool influencer, former EWS racer moms have them). With the shotgun seat it was curious fun for a bit, until our son told us, he also wants a bike with a motor.
After a couple of weeks with the emtbs we realised that something was missing. After the honeymoon-phase we rode eco-mode almost exclusively, the emtbs weren´t as fun (for us) as our regular bikes and we were missing the feeling of earning our turns/descents.
We sold both emtbs and since both have a nice trail bike fitted with XC tires - and THOSE are fun, fast and effortless and incredibly capable. And we also both have fat enduro bikes with sticky tires and lots of travel. And they are also fun. We are fit and enjoy biking more than ever.
I have absolutely nothing against someone enjoying their emtbs. Enjoy yourselves. But I strongly disagree if anyone calls them the be all end all for everybody.
My wife and I have zero (0!) interest on emtbs after trying and owning them (with our own money). But we've been riding regular mtbs for 25+ years and hope for another 25 ;-)
PS: I just wrote this post to be able to mention that I ordered a Nomad 7 frame kit and am giddy as a kid for it...
Just to chime in on this - wife and I each have 3 bikes. I know because of storage space and cash flow reasons this is definitely not for everybody - but we've been working long enough to indulge ourselves a little bit in this hobby. We each have one short travel trail bike for pedal days, one park bike, and one mid-long travel ebike. The use case for the short travel trail bike and the ebike is actually very different. The trail bike is amazing for very close to home trails and getting a good workout, plus sometimes you WANT to feel the burn/pain. The ebike is mostly for doing enduro style trails where pedaling is mostly done on the fireroad or a dedicated climbing trail and all you care about is the downhill and more laps. Then because we live so close to Mountain Creek we have a park bike for riding there. We used to not have the ebike and it was just 2 bikes each between the 2 of us - but on it is sketchy to attempt something on a 125 rear travel norco optic. I would probably sub out the ebike for a regular enduro bike if I were more fit, but as it stands it's a great bridge gap solution (for our fitness).
Sounds like a fun bike, but that's not really a quiver killer. No matter what you do that's not going to pedal like a 32lb carbon 150/160mm bike. Hardly what you want to take for a hot lap after work when you have an hour to get a good rip in. Ive pedaled 40lb long travel enduro bikes for years, it sucks.
My whole point was, just because it can do it, doesn't mean it's good at it. My DH bike is a custom Vessle (VBP), 80-degree STA, 62.5 HA, 215mm of travel. Like the G1 with a link swap I can drop that down to 180 and toss a single crown fork on it to reign in the HA and turn it into an short travel weapon. Can I yes, will I, absolutely not. I'd much rather grab the purpose-built trail bike that is ready to go, pedals better and is way more fun to thrash around on than a soft and supple DH bike. YMMV.
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