2026 MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation - Longer and Slacker

seanfisseli wrote:

28th

Big Dos wrote:

Hard 2 year product cycle for that one. Feels like the 8 only just came out. 

cliffbikermagazine wrote:

32" coming maybe? 

Big Dos wrote:

Hard 2 year product cycle for that one. Feels like the 8 only just came out. 

cliffbikermagazine wrote:

32" coming maybe? 

FullSend wrote:

I can confirm that Specialized will reveal a new generation of the Specialized Epic this month. I can also confirm that the new model definitively rolls on...

I can confirm that Specialized will reveal a new generation of the Specialized Epic this month. 

I can also confirm that the new model definitively rolls on 29" wheels. 

From what I'm hearing, the folks at Specialized who executively get to make the decision on these kinds of things are not convinced that 32" wheels are universally beneficial for all XC racers and see them as more of a niche solution for very specific scenarios.

Primoz wrote:

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion...

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion and they need something to prevent rotation, thus the needle bearings.

As for why not use it on conventional forks, it incredibly expensive compared to classic forks. While precisely grinding the insides and outsides of an aluminium tube is anything but easy I'd imagine, additionally grinding three (Ocho, previous Cannondale forks had four) flat surfaces that have to be smooth for the needle bearings and have a tight angular tolerance (as close to 120° clocking as possible) is much harder still. Add to that the fact that you need even more material to handle everything (the tube is not as nicely rounded, so you need extra material to keep the strength and to be able to machine it) it's likely also quite a bit heavier. This is not as much of a problem with the lefty which only has one stanchion, but it's add up on conventional forks.

Then problem number the two. Almost everybody trying out an USD fork not seeing an issue, plus Darren from @PUSH Industries explaining the mechanics in the podcast, it's clear USD forks don't really need to be more torsionally stiff. At least in 99 % of the time, all of the time. Yes, RSU forks are stiffer. Yes, adding needle roller bearings would make USD forks stiffer. But there's no need to complicate the product more, make it heavier and more expensive for essentially no gain.

 

As for iTrack and the discussion, it's not an idler on the swingarm. The patent specifically doesn't cover that. As long as your idler is on your front triangle (or mounted concentrically to a pivot point on the front triangle, which makes it the same thing kinematically) or on the swingarm if it's a single pivot design, you're safe. If it's mounted on any other suspension member, then it's covered by iTrack. Not sure if the wheel carrying member (seatstays of a regular horst link for example or a rear triangle of a VPP bike) is covered by iTrack or only intermediate members are covered, but yeah, single pivots are in the clear and front triangle mounting is in the clear.

As for stickers, if you're doing a DIY build and not selling bikes, you get a sticker. If you are selling bikes, you are getting an invoice.

As for patent covering idler positions only, I think that's also not true. I think a big part of the patent is also the calculation of the kinematics of the systems covered by the patent. I know Linkage incorporated AS calculations based off the iTrack patent for these types of suspension.

 

And I think Vampire bikes dosn't patent a horst link suspension per-se, it covers the multiple pivot points. I think the specifics are three pivot points on a straight line or an arc (which is basically any orientation three points can be in. I guess you could get around the patent by just adding another hole nobody would use that is neither on the line or on the arc and you got around the patent...

Big Dos wrote:

Hard 2 year product cycle for that one. Feels like the 8 only just came out. 

cliffbikermagazine wrote:

32" coming maybe? 

FullSend wrote:

I can confirm that Specialized will reveal a new generation of the Specialized Epic this month. I can also confirm that the new model definitively rolls on...

I can confirm that Specialized will reveal a new generation of the Specialized Epic this month. 

I can also confirm that the new model definitively rolls on 29" wheels. 

From what I'm hearing, the folks at Specialized who executively get to make the decision on these kinds of things are not convinced that 32" wheels are universally beneficial for all XC racers and see them as more of a niche solution for very specific scenarios.

ejj wrote:

New Epic 9 will be crazy light in S Works guise. No 32", no swat box. Very racy--Not sure about trims and rollout availability. Product cycle on...

New Epic 9 will be crazy light in S Works guise. No 32", no swat box. Very racy--Not sure about trims and rollout availability. 

Product cycle on the Epic 8 (spring 2024) does seem a little short. Perhaps they decided to release early based on 32" future XC bikes?

Primoz wrote:

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money both forks were run dry. When you have rolling elements, that won't affect the demonstration much, it...

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money both forks were run dry. When you have rolling elements, that won't affect the demonstration much, it would affect the lifetime (which is not a problem here). It would on the other hand greatly affect the performance of a sliding bushing fork (i.e. the white one) if there's no oil in it.

You can also bet Cannondale's presentation was designed to showcase how much better THEIR product is. Have they mentioned anything how much harder it is to make it? How much effort they have to put into the design of the spring and damper which are in the same leg? How much more finicky it is to remove the front wheel? Etc.

Again Darren from @PUSH Industries mentioned in the other thread that one part of the reason USD forks are not as widely used as RSU forks are is wheel insertion. With an RSU fork the dropouts are where you need them. With an USD fork the lowers can freely rotate and you sometimes need to align the dropouts to be able to insert the wheel and axle. And that that is a negative to the average user.

Is that an absurd reason not use an USD fork? Sure. Did I go through hoops to make a custom modified (cut and rethreaded fatbike) Maxle ultimate for the back so I can have a QR Maxle axle in the rear of my UDH equipped bike (obviously also one in the front) because I can't be arsed to find a hex wrench to take off a wheel because that's how it's always been? You bet.

Primoz wrote:

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion...

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion and they need something to prevent rotation, thus the needle bearings.

As for why not use it on conventional forks, it incredibly expensive compared to classic forks. While precisely grinding the insides and outsides of an aluminium tube is anything but easy I'd imagine, additionally grinding three (Ocho, previous Cannondale forks had four) flat surfaces that have to be smooth for the needle bearings and have a tight angular tolerance (as close to 120° clocking as possible) is much harder still. Add to that the fact that you need even more material to handle everything (the tube is not as nicely rounded, so you need extra material to keep the strength and to be able to machine it) it's likely also quite a bit heavier. This is not as much of a problem with the lefty which only has one stanchion, but it's add up on conventional forks.

Then problem number the two. Almost everybody trying out an USD fork not seeing an issue, plus Darren from @PUSH Industries explaining the mechanics in the podcast, it's clear USD forks don't really need to be more torsionally stiff. At least in 99 % of the time, all of the time. Yes, RSU forks are stiffer. Yes, adding needle roller bearings would make USD forks stiffer. But there's no need to complicate the product more, make it heavier and more expensive for essentially no gain.

 

As for iTrack and the discussion, it's not an idler on the swingarm. The patent specifically doesn't cover that. As long as your idler is on your front triangle (or mounted concentrically to a pivot point on the front triangle, which makes it the same thing kinematically) or on the swingarm if it's a single pivot design, you're safe. If it's mounted on any other suspension member, then it's covered by iTrack. Not sure if the wheel carrying member (seatstays of a regular horst link for example or a rear triangle of a VPP bike) is covered by iTrack or only intermediate members are covered, but yeah, single pivots are in the clear and front triangle mounting is in the clear.

As for stickers, if you're doing a DIY build and not selling bikes, you get a sticker. If you are selling bikes, you are getting an invoice.

As for patent covering idler positions only, I think that's also not true. I think a big part of the patent is also the calculation of the kinematics of the systems covered by the patent. I know Linkage incorporated AS calculations based off the iTrack patent for these types of suspension.

 

And I think Vampire bikes dosn't patent a horst link suspension per-se, it covers the multiple pivot points. I think the specifics are three pivot points on a straight line or an arc (which is basically any orientation three points can be in. I guess you could get around the patent by just adding another hole nobody would use that is neither on the line or on the arc and you got around the patent...

Primoz wrote:

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion...

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion and they need something to prevent rotation, thus the needle bearings.

As for why not use it on conventional forks, it incredibly expensive compared to classic forks. While precisely grinding the insides and outsides of an aluminium tube is anything but easy I'd imagine, additionally grinding three (Ocho, previous Cannondale forks had four) flat surfaces that have to be smooth for the needle bearings and have a tight angular tolerance (as close to 120° clocking as possible) is much harder still. Add to that the fact that you need even more material to handle everything (the tube is not as nicely rounded, so you need extra material to keep the strength and to be able to machine it) it's likely also quite a bit heavier. This is not as much of a problem with the lefty which only has one stanchion, but it's add up on conventional forks.

Then problem number the two. Almost everybody trying out an USD fork not seeing an issue, plus Darren from @PUSH Industries explaining the mechanics in the podcast, it's clear USD forks don't really need to be more torsionally stiff. At least in 99 % of the time, all of the time. Yes, RSU forks are stiffer. Yes, adding needle roller bearings would make USD forks stiffer. But there's no need to complicate the product more, make it heavier and more expensive for essentially no gain.

 

As for iTrack and the discussion, it's not an idler on the swingarm. The patent specifically doesn't cover that. As long as your idler is on your front triangle (or mounted concentrically to a pivot point on the front triangle, which makes it the same thing kinematically) or on the swingarm if it's a single pivot design, you're safe. If it's mounted on any other suspension member, then it's covered by iTrack. Not sure if the wheel carrying member (seatstays of a regular horst link for example or a rear triangle of a VPP bike) is covered by iTrack or only intermediate members are covered, but yeah, single pivots are in the clear and front triangle mounting is in the clear.

As for stickers, if you're doing a DIY build and not selling bikes, you get a sticker. If you are selling bikes, you are getting an invoice.

As for patent covering idler positions only, I think that's also not true. I think a big part of the patent is also the calculation of the kinematics of the systems covered by the patent. I know Linkage incorporated AS calculations based off the iTrack patent for these types of suspension.

 

And I think Vampire bikes dosn't patent a horst link suspension per-se, it covers the multiple pivot points. I think the specifics are three pivot points on a straight line or an arc (which is basically any orientation three points can be in. I guess you could get around the patent by just adding another hole nobody would use that is neither on the line or on the arc and you got around the patent...

hamncheez2003 wrote:

If I had more free time I'd buy an old Dorado and machine a scissor link like airplane suspension to keep the wheel straight and make...

If I had more free time I'd buy an old Dorado and machine a scissor link like airplane suspension to keep the wheel straight and make my own Lefty. Try and disguise it as the lower stanchion guard. But 5 kids and a day job....

ejj wrote:

New Epic 9 will be crazy light in S Works guise. No 32", no swat box. Very racy--Not sure about trims and rollout availability. Product cycle on...

New Epic 9 will be crazy light in S Works guise. No 32", no swat box. Very racy--Not sure about trims and rollout availability. 

Product cycle on the Epic 8 (spring 2024) does seem a little short. Perhaps they decided to release early based on 32" future XC bikes?

Ambushell wrote:

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL...

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL motor.

Ambushell wrote:

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL...

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL motor.

Ambushell wrote:

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL...

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL motor.

DServy wrote:

New Oso since their eBike line up is long in the tooth at this point. 

Primoz wrote:

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money both forks were run dry. When you have rolling elements, that won't affect the demonstration much, it...

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money both forks were run dry. When you have rolling elements, that won't affect the demonstration much, it would affect the lifetime (which is not a problem here). It would on the other hand greatly affect the performance of a sliding bushing fork (i.e. the white one) if there's no oil in it.

You can also bet Cannondale's presentation was designed to showcase how much better THEIR product is. Have they mentioned anything how much harder it is to make it? How much effort they have to put into the design of the spring and damper which are in the same leg? How much more finicky it is to remove the front wheel? Etc.

Again Darren from @PUSH Industries mentioned in the other thread that one part of the reason USD forks are not as widely used as RSU forks are is wheel insertion. With an RSU fork the dropouts are where you need them. With an USD fork the lowers can freely rotate and you sometimes need to align the dropouts to be able to insert the wheel and axle. And that that is a negative to the average user.

Is that an absurd reason not use an USD fork? Sure. Did I go through hoops to make a custom modified (cut and rethreaded fatbike) Maxle ultimate for the back so I can have a QR Maxle axle in the rear of my UDH equipped bike (obviously also one in the front) because I can't be arsed to find a hex wrench to take off a wheel because that's how it's always been? You bet.

monarchmason wrote:

Say the forks are dry, still showcases just how smooth the Lefty is. Add oil, still smoother. Unless Im missing something, compared to the other offerings...

Say the forks are dry, still showcases just how smooth the Lefty is. Add oil, still smoother. Unless Im missing something, compared to the other offerings of modern USD forks, an old SuperMaxx Lefty still seems like a more logical option. Especially if it had a modernized damper. If we are strictly talking about stiffness, smoothness, and weight. 

I feel if Cannondale did come out with a modern Lefty they would not have such a negative reaction of "looks weird" like they did in the past. I mean we went through the era of pregnant Ebikes. Now the weirdest thing is the Fox Podium fender. I hope it comes back.  

Ambushell wrote:

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL...

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL motor.

Digit Bikes wrote:

Ibis's are birds. But I'm betting it's a xenomorph.

Loche wrote:

New Commencal coming April 14th per their website.These look like very, very long chainstays.Enhance anyone?!

New Commencal coming April 14th per their website.

These look like very, very long chainstays.

Enhance anyone?!

Primoz wrote:

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion...

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion and they need something to prevent rotation, thus the needle bearings.

As for why not use it on conventional forks, it incredibly expensive compared to classic forks. While precisely grinding the insides and outsides of an aluminium tube is anything but easy I'd imagine, additionally grinding three (Ocho, previous Cannondale forks had four) flat surfaces that have to be smooth for the needle bearings and have a tight angular tolerance (as close to 120° clocking as possible) is much harder still. Add to that the fact that you need even more material to handle everything (the tube is not as nicely rounded, so you need extra material to keep the strength and to be able to machine it) it's likely also quite a bit heavier. This is not as much of a problem with the lefty which only has one stanchion, but it's add up on conventional forks.

Then problem number the two. Almost everybody trying out an USD fork not seeing an issue, plus Darren from @PUSH Industries explaining the mechanics in the podcast, it's clear USD forks don't really need to be more torsionally stiff. At least in 99 % of the time, all of the time. Yes, RSU forks are stiffer. Yes, adding needle roller bearings would make USD forks stiffer. But there's no need to complicate the product more, make it heavier and more expensive for essentially no gain.

 

As for iTrack and the discussion, it's not an idler on the swingarm. The patent specifically doesn't cover that. As long as your idler is on your front triangle (or mounted concentrically to a pivot point on the front triangle, which makes it the same thing kinematically) or on the swingarm if it's a single pivot design, you're safe. If it's mounted on any other suspension member, then it's covered by iTrack. Not sure if the wheel carrying member (seatstays of a regular horst link for example or a rear triangle of a VPP bike) is covered by iTrack or only intermediate members are covered, but yeah, single pivots are in the clear and front triangle mounting is in the clear.

As for stickers, if you're doing a DIY build and not selling bikes, you get a sticker. If you are selling bikes, you are getting an invoice.

As for patent covering idler positions only, I think that's also not true. I think a big part of the patent is also the calculation of the kinematics of the systems covered by the patent. I know Linkage incorporated AS calculations based off the iTrack patent for these types of suspension.

 

And I think Vampire bikes dosn't patent a horst link suspension per-se, it covers the multiple pivot points. I think the specifics are three pivot points on a straight line or an arc (which is basically any orientation three points can be in. I guess you could get around the patent by just adding another hole nobody would use that is neither on the line or on the arc and you got around the patent...

Ambushell wrote:

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL...

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL motor.

Digit Bikes wrote:

Ibis's are birds. But I'm betting it's a xenomorph.

Primoz wrote:

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion...

Not sure what the patent situation is like with Cannondale's lefty forks, but they use needle bearings because they need them. Leftys only have one stanchion and they need something to prevent rotation, thus the needle bearings.

As for why not use it on conventional forks, it incredibly expensive compared to classic forks. While precisely grinding the insides and outsides of an aluminium tube is anything but easy I'd imagine, additionally grinding three (Ocho, previous Cannondale forks had four) flat surfaces that have to be smooth for the needle bearings and have a tight angular tolerance (as close to 120° clocking as possible) is much harder still. Add to that the fact that you need even more material to handle everything (the tube is not as nicely rounded, so you need extra material to keep the strength and to be able to machine it) it's likely also quite a bit heavier. This is not as much of a problem with the lefty which only has one stanchion, but it's add up on conventional forks.

Then problem number the two. Almost everybody trying out an USD fork not seeing an issue, plus Darren from @PUSH Industries explaining the mechanics in the podcast, it's clear USD forks don't really need to be more torsionally stiff. At least in 99 % of the time, all of the time. Yes, RSU forks are stiffer. Yes, adding needle roller bearings would make USD forks stiffer. But there's no need to complicate the product more, make it heavier and more expensive for essentially no gain.

 

As for iTrack and the discussion, it's not an idler on the swingarm. The patent specifically doesn't cover that. As long as your idler is on your front triangle (or mounted concentrically to a pivot point on the front triangle, which makes it the same thing kinematically) or on the swingarm if it's a single pivot design, you're safe. If it's mounted on any other suspension member, then it's covered by iTrack. Not sure if the wheel carrying member (seatstays of a regular horst link for example or a rear triangle of a VPP bike) is covered by iTrack or only intermediate members are covered, but yeah, single pivots are in the clear and front triangle mounting is in the clear.

As for stickers, if you're doing a DIY build and not selling bikes, you get a sticker. If you are selling bikes, you are getting an invoice.

As for patent covering idler positions only, I think that's also not true. I think a big part of the patent is also the calculation of the kinematics of the systems covered by the patent. I know Linkage incorporated AS calculations based off the iTrack patent for these types of suspension.

 

And I think Vampire bikes dosn't patent a horst link suspension per-se, it covers the multiple pivot points. I think the specifics are three pivot points on a straight line or an arc (which is basically any orientation three points can be in. I guess you could get around the patent by just adding another hole nobody would use that is neither on the line or on the arc and you got around the patent...

nskerb wrote:

Hopefully a new tempo! That bike looked like a ton of fun besides the headset cable junk. I feel like tons of people are moving towards...

Hopefully a new tempo! That bike looked like a ton of fun besides the headset cable junk. I feel like tons of people are moving towards 130-140mm bikes and ditching big enduros. They are missing out on that market currently.

Side note: does it seem like commencal has been losing steam lately? From prob 2018-24ish they were releasing a ton of stuff and doing quick updates. Lots of press coverage also. Honestly I forgot what a new meta even looked like until I looked at their website today. Maybe the economy along with the 100 World Cup teams they title sponsor has slowed down their regular people bike development idk.

Evil96 wrote:

The only problem is that it’s as heavy as a Meta v5 

Evil96 wrote:

The only problem is that it’s as heavy as a Meta v5 

nskerb wrote:

It isn’t though?

Ambushell wrote:

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL...

another Ibis teaser "hatching soon" (new bird themed model?) on April 14th. Anyone have intel? my guess is full 29er HD6 or Ripmo with an SL motor.

Digit Bikes wrote:

Ibis's are birds. But I'm betting it's a xenomorph.

TheSuspensionLabNZ wrote:

Im always curious to know how popular ibis bikes are in Australia where the bird is known as a "bin chicken".... it would be like bringing...

Im always curious to know how popular ibis bikes are in Australia where the bird is known as a "bin chicken".... it would be like bringing a bike to the US and calling it Turkey....

hamncheez2003 wrote:

Why does everyone hate on the scissor link idea? Its how every single Oleo strut works. Its been proven millions of times. 

Why does everyone hate on the scissor link idea? Its how every single Oleo strut works. Its been proven millions of times. 

hamncheez2003 wrote:

Why does everyone hate on the scissor link idea? Its how every single Oleo strut works. Its been proven millions of times. 

Why does everyone hate on the scissor link idea? Its how every single Oleo strut works. Its been proven millions of times. 

rugbyred wrote:

Intend is coming out with a new shock soon according to an email I received. No other information but I’m assuming it will work for the...

Intend is coming out with a new shock soon according to an email I received. No other information but I’m assuming it will work for the big kids (previous one had a rider weight limit of a 100kg).