Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

11/11/2025 9:06am

I personally don't feel the lever is hard to pull in any way but do you want a light lever feel on a strong brake? Seems like it would be MORE difficult to modulate if light forces like trail feedback can have more of an affect on lever pull/modulation. 

1
AndehM
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Fantasy
11/11/2025 9:25am

From everything I've read on the topic, a lighter free stroke portion of the pull will mean it gets longer.  Think Dominions, which have one of the lightest but also longest free strokes out there.

I wouldn't mind trying the gold cam, but have no issues with the red one.  What I care about is the amount of force required to actually slow down, which is way less on Mavens than most other brakes. 

4
2
11/11/2025 9:33am
I personally don't feel the lever is hard to pull in any way but do you want a light lever feel on a strong brake? Seems...

I personally don't feel the lever is hard to pull in any way but do you want a light lever feel on a strong brake? Seems like it would be MORE difficult to modulate if light forces like trail feedback can have more of an affect on lever pull/modulation. 

Intend Trinity summed up. LOL

2
ballz
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11/11/2025 11:48am
I personally don't feel the lever is hard to pull in any way but do you want a light lever feel on a strong brake? Seems...

I personally don't feel the lever is hard to pull in any way but do you want a light lever feel on a strong brake? Seems like it would be MORE difficult to modulate if light forces like trail feedback can have more of an affect on lever pull/modulation. 

Nah. I have two sets of T4V4s - one that was bought all new with the new MC, pistons and seals, and one that was T3V4 and only the levers were replaced with the new T4s. Both sets are strong but the all-new-one has a much lighter lever feel which makes it quite a bit nicer. A lot nicer. I am guessing the difference is in less friction in the new pistons and seals, so that's the next thing I am upgrading this winter.

AgrAde
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11/12/2025 5:21pm
AndehM wrote:
From everything I've read on the topic, a lighter free stroke portion of the pull will mean it gets longer.  Think Dominions, which have one of...

From everything I've read on the topic, a lighter free stroke portion of the pull will mean it gets longer.  Think Dominions, which have one of the lightest but also longest free strokes out there.

I wouldn't mind trying the gold cam, but have no issues with the red one.  What I care about is the amount of force required to actually slow down, which is way less on Mavens than most other brakes. 

Ive had three pairs of Dominions and they have less free stroke than any other brake I've used at ~14mm. All very consistent. Definitely don't need long throw for light stroke.

 

5
11/12/2025 10:37pm

Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes (Sram Guide T). On my enduro bike I have Maven Ultimates and I absolutely love them (after years of bad experiences with Shimanos). But now I'm not sure if another set of Mavens (with smaller rotors) will be overkill for the small bike and instead I should get the Motives or if the power difference between them is too big to make the downgrade worthwile. For reference, I'm 85kg and I will definitely ride the bike on all sorts of trails. I already have Mavens on another two bikes, so I prefer to stick to Sram for easier service.

1
Primoz
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11/12/2025 10:51pm

What about Code RSCs? I think the caliper is basically the same as Motive, but you get a swing link and contact point lever. 

2
seanfisseli
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Santa Cruz, CA US
11/12/2025 11:02pm
Primoz wrote:

What about Code RSCs? I think the caliper is basically the same as Motive, but you get a swing link and contact point lever. 

I like codes with hs2

2
11/12/2025 11:18pm

I guess Code RSCs are a valid option powerwise, but I don't want to deal with both dot and mineral oil.

1
Jakowitz
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11/12/2025 11:44pm

How are people getting on with the new Hope GR4 & TR4s? I'm especially interested in a comparison between them. There's no detailed reviews out for them yet & I'm not sure why really!

11/13/2025 1:54am
Jakowitz wrote:
How are people getting on with the new Hope GR4 & TR4s? I'm especially interested in a comparison between them. There's no detailed reviews out for...

How are people getting on with the new Hope GR4 & TR4s? I'm especially interested in a comparison between them. There's no detailed reviews out for them yet & I'm not sure why really!

6
11/13/2025 8:11am
Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes...

Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes (Sram Guide T). On my enduro bike I have Maven Ultimates and I absolutely love them (after years of bad experiences with Shimanos). But now I'm not sure if another set of Mavens (with smaller rotors) will be overkill for the small bike and instead I should get the Motives or if the power difference between them is too big to make the downgrade worthwile. For reference, I'm 85kg and I will definitely ride the bike on all sorts of trails. I already have Mavens on another two bikes, so I prefer to stick to Sram for easier service.

Vital put something up about this about a month ago

2
ebruner
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11/13/2025 8:44am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2025 8:45am
Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes...

Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes (Sram Guide T). On my enduro bike I have Maven Ultimates and I absolutely love them (after years of bad experiences with Shimanos). But now I'm not sure if another set of Mavens (with smaller rotors) will be overkill for the small bike and instead I should get the Motives or if the power difference between them is too big to make the downgrade worthwile. For reference, I'm 85kg and I will definitely ride the bike on all sorts of trails. I already have Mavens on another two bikes, so I prefer to stick to Sram for easier service.

I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I jumped on my trail bike that had codes with hs2 rotors after being on my bikes with maven's for 6 weeks straight and the lack of braking performance was a bit jarring, also my hands/arms hurt from pulling the levers so hard.  The DB8's on the other hand, feel really good and the linear lever throw makes them feel more confidence inspiring then the lack of power combined with the swing link power ramp up.  

I was/am faced with the same issue you're facing as I had trp dhr evo's on above mentioned trail bike that were the replacement for the code rsc's that I found insufficient.  I was really having a hard time going back and forth between maven's and the trp's with regards to: lever throw, bite point feedback and lever pull effort required for max power.  I would get used to them after like 2.5 - 3 descents and would adjust... but the initial first descents were pretty tough.  

I ended up going with a set of maven base with 200mm rotors after a lot of brain damage and inner debate.  I am not stoked about adding ~150g to the bike, but I think I just need to be over braked and deal with the consequences.  

1
Evil96
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Portogruaro, VE IT
11/13/2025 9:52am
Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes...

Anyone has real life experience with both the Mavens and the Motives? Yesterday I just got myself a Santa Cruz Tallboy that came with weak brakes (Sram Guide T). On my enduro bike I have Maven Ultimates and I absolutely love them (after years of bad experiences with Shimanos). But now I'm not sure if another set of Mavens (with smaller rotors) will be overkill for the small bike and instead I should get the Motives or if the power difference between them is too big to make the downgrade worthwile. For reference, I'm 85kg and I will definitely ride the bike on all sorts of trails. I already have Mavens on another two bikes, so I prefer to stick to Sram for easier service.

ebruner wrote:
I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I...

I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I jumped on my trail bike that had codes with hs2 rotors after being on my bikes with maven's for 6 weeks straight and the lack of braking performance was a bit jarring, also my hands/arms hurt from pulling the levers so hard.  The DB8's on the other hand, feel really good and the linear lever throw makes them feel more confidence inspiring then the lack of power combined with the swing link power ramp up.  

I was/am faced with the same issue you're facing as I had trp dhr evo's on above mentioned trail bike that were the replacement for the code rsc's that I found insufficient.  I was really having a hard time going back and forth between maven's and the trp's with regards to: lever throw, bite point feedback and lever pull effort required for max power.  I would get used to them after like 2.5 - 3 descents and would adjust... but the initial first descents were pretty tough.  

I ended up going with a set of maven base with 200mm rotors after a lot of brain damage and inner debate.  I am not stoked about adding ~150g to the bike, but I think I just need to be over braked and deal with the consequences.  

Really? I’d rather get the cheap Lewis than the db8, I find the latter quite bad between lever play and overall feel and lack of power 

1
11/14/2025 8:23pm

I just popped a second set of Hope Evo TR4’s on a bike. I dropped a rotor size compared to the Formula cura 4’s they replace.


What I noticed was how the second set bled exactly as fast and easy as the first, the two pairs feel identical in how solid and powerful they are. No issues with the new bleed port.


I’m really impressed.

6
7even
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11/15/2025 12:40pm

Anyone with intend trinity set that also tested the hope evo gr4? How do they compare?

I am very happy with my intends, but want to maybe try something new in the future

TEAMROBOT
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11/15/2025 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 11/15/2025 4:38pm
ebruner wrote:
I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I...

I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I jumped on my trail bike that had codes with hs2 rotors after being on my bikes with maven's for 6 weeks straight and the lack of braking performance was a bit jarring, also my hands/arms hurt from pulling the levers so hard.  The DB8's on the other hand, feel really good and the linear lever throw makes them feel more confidence inspiring then the lack of power combined with the swing link power ramp up.  

I was/am faced with the same issue you're facing as I had trp dhr evo's on above mentioned trail bike that were the replacement for the code rsc's that I found insufficient.  I was really having a hard time going back and forth between maven's and the trp's with regards to: lever throw, bite point feedback and lever pull effort required for max power.  I would get used to them after like 2.5 - 3 descents and would adjust... but the initial first descents were pretty tough.  

I ended up going with a set of maven base with 200mm rotors after a lot of brain damage and inner debate.  I am not stoked about adding ~150g to the bike, but I think I just need to be over braked and deal with the consequences.  

I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread who disagreed: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/sram/db8-59421

100% agree that the stock organic pads on the DB8's need to go immediately in the trash. I think a lot of the reason why people who hate DB8's hated them is because they came stock with organic pads and those people never thought to switch. The organic pad is unrideable for me, and really only valid for beginners, intermediates, and for customers buying them on an city ebike for commuting.

My understanding is the Motive is basically a DB8 with a swinglink and bearings at the main lever pivot, which should make them a little more powerful but will make lever feel a little less linear and predictable. I would definitely take a Motive or DB8 over a Maven for a Tallboy, because I think brake size, tire carcass, and travel amount should roughly be correlated for best results.

Mavens on a tallboy is sort of like putting 35's on a Subaru: everything that makes a Subaru good is going to be less good with 35's. And if you actually need 35-inch tires, you definitely shouldn't pick a Subaru for your terrain.

6
codahale
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Fort Collins, CO US
11/15/2025 5:13pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread...

I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread who disagreed: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/sram/db8-59421

100% agree that the stock organic pads on the DB8's need to go immediately in the trash. I think a lot of the reason why people who hate DB8's hated them is because they came stock with organic pads and those people never thought to switch. The organic pad is unrideable for me, and really only valid for beginners, intermediates, and for customers buying them on an city ebike for commuting.

My understanding is the Motive is basically a DB8 with a swinglink and bearings at the main lever pivot, which should make them a little more powerful but will make lever feel a little less linear and predictable. I would definitely take a Motive or DB8 over a Maven for a Tallboy, because I think brake size, tire carcass, and travel amount should roughly be correlated for best results.

Mavens on a tallboy is sort of like putting 35's on a Subaru: everything that makes a Subaru good is going to be less good with 35's. And if you actually need 35-inch tires, you definitely shouldn't pick a Subaru for your terrain.

I have a Tallboy with Mavens and DH tires and yeah, don’t.

6
11/15/2025 11:01pm

Thanks all! Now that I’ve done a few rides on the Tallboy, I can confirm that braking power won’t be the factor limiting this bike. Motives with HS2 rotors should be more than enough

1
AnttiH
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11/16/2025 8:41am

Has anyone tried to fix the high pitch squeal that Hope brakes suffer from? My best guess for the noise would be the phenolic insers that the pistons have. Radic Kaha and Trickstuff Maxima both have nearly the same size pistons, both brakes have hollow stainless steel pistons and use the same V4 pad standard. I've had Maximas and Kahas with Galfer red and green pads. Neither brake ever had the same noise that the V4's have. So I'm wondering if removing the plastic inserts from the V4 pistons would make the brakes quiet.

1
11/16/2025 10:43am

I've done everything but remove those inserts to remove it. even tried backing plate things.

They just squeek, Wish Hope would actually just admit to a marketing reasoning an it would settle that talk.

2
Finkill
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11/16/2025 10:56am

My experience with the Tech 4 V4s is that the red pads make noise and the purple ones don't, I tend to run purple as a default and they are pretty quiet in all scenarios. 

2
11/16/2025 2:41pm
ebruner wrote:
I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I...

I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I jumped on my trail bike that had codes with hs2 rotors after being on my bikes with maven's for 6 weeks straight and the lack of braking performance was a bit jarring, also my hands/arms hurt from pulling the levers so hard.  The DB8's on the other hand, feel really good and the linear lever throw makes them feel more confidence inspiring then the lack of power combined with the swing link power ramp up.  

I was/am faced with the same issue you're facing as I had trp dhr evo's on above mentioned trail bike that were the replacement for the code rsc's that I found insufficient.  I was really having a hard time going back and forth between maven's and the trp's with regards to: lever throw, bite point feedback and lever pull effort required for max power.  I would get used to them after like 2.5 - 3 descents and would adjust... but the initial first descents were pretty tough.  

I ended up going with a set of maven base with 200mm rotors after a lot of brain damage and inner debate.  I am not stoked about adding ~150g to the bike, but I think I just need to be over braked and deal with the consequences.  

TEAMROBOT wrote:
I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread...

I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread who disagreed: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/sram/db8-59421

100% agree that the stock organic pads on the DB8's need to go immediately in the trash. I think a lot of the reason why people who hate DB8's hated them is because they came stock with organic pads and those people never thought to switch. The organic pad is unrideable for me, and really only valid for beginners, intermediates, and for customers buying them on an city ebike for commuting.

My understanding is the Motive is basically a DB8 with a swinglink and bearings at the main lever pivot, which should make them a little more powerful but will make lever feel a little less linear and predictable. I would definitely take a Motive or DB8 over a Maven for a Tallboy, because I think brake size, tire carcass, and travel amount should roughly be correlated for best results.

Mavens on a tallboy is sort of like putting 35's on a Subaru: everything that makes a Subaru good is going to be less good with 35's. And if you actually need 35-inch tires, you definitely shouldn't pick a Subaru for your terrain.

This is such a good analogy lmao

1
Primoz
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SI
11/16/2025 9:37pm
ebruner wrote:
I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I...

I know this sounds crazy, but I would go with db8's with metallic pads and Hs2 rotors before going with the codes at this point.  I jumped on my trail bike that had codes with hs2 rotors after being on my bikes with maven's for 6 weeks straight and the lack of braking performance was a bit jarring, also my hands/arms hurt from pulling the levers so hard.  The DB8's on the other hand, feel really good and the linear lever throw makes them feel more confidence inspiring then the lack of power combined with the swing link power ramp up.  

I was/am faced with the same issue you're facing as I had trp dhr evo's on above mentioned trail bike that were the replacement for the code rsc's that I found insufficient.  I was really having a hard time going back and forth between maven's and the trp's with regards to: lever throw, bite point feedback and lever pull effort required for max power.  I would get used to them after like 2.5 - 3 descents and would adjust... but the initial first descents were pretty tough.  

I ended up going with a set of maven base with 200mm rotors after a lot of brain damage and inner debate.  I am not stoked about adding ~150g to the bike, but I think I just need to be over braked and deal with the consequences.  

TEAMROBOT wrote:
I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread...

I really liked the lever feel and power on my DB8's with HS2 rotors, but there are definitely people in the comments and in this thread who disagreed: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/sram/db8-59421

100% agree that the stock organic pads on the DB8's need to go immediately in the trash. I think a lot of the reason why people who hate DB8's hated them is because they came stock with organic pads and those people never thought to switch. The organic pad is unrideable for me, and really only valid for beginners, intermediates, and for customers buying them on an city ebike for commuting.

My understanding is the Motive is basically a DB8 with a swinglink and bearings at the main lever pivot, which should make them a little more powerful but will make lever feel a little less linear and predictable. I would definitely take a Motive or DB8 over a Maven for a Tallboy, because I think brake size, tire carcass, and travel amount should roughly be correlated for best results.

Mavens on a tallboy is sort of like putting 35's on a Subaru: everything that makes a Subaru good is going to be less good with 35's. And if you actually need 35-inch tires, you definitely shouldn't pick a Subaru for your terrain.

Motives don't have a swing link. So just a rebranded DB8 then? 

2
boozed
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AU
11/16/2025 9:57pm Edited Date/Time 11/16/2025 9:58pm
Primoz wrote:

Motives don't have a swing link. So just a rebranded DB8 then? 

With the addition of reach adjust, and a bearing pivot in the "silver" and "ultimate" grades, by the looks of it

2
Pedal Bob
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H NO
11/16/2025 11:16pm
AnttiH wrote:
Has anyone tried to fix the high pitch squeal that Hope brakes suffer from? My best guess for the noise would be the phenolic insers that...

Has anyone tried to fix the high pitch squeal that Hope brakes suffer from? My best guess for the noise would be the phenolic insers that the pistons have. Radic Kaha and Trickstuff Maxima both have nearly the same size pistons, both brakes have hollow stainless steel pistons and use the same V4 pad standard. I've had Maximas and Kahas with Galfer red and green pads. Neither brake ever had the same noise that the V4's have. So I'm wondering if removing the plastic inserts from the V4 pistons would make the brakes quiet.

I wasn't aware of it till now that they leave an open cavity like that pointing up. Even though the backplate rests over it I'd imagine it being a trap for dirt and grime.

No matter, it is an easy thing to test, but the pistons need to come out of the caliper first so you're able to pull the inserts out. 

 

20250626 142808 0.jpg?VersionId=0NkTM3U0S4SUTY9zLVT YyRaBsD2w20250626 142936

 

1
Primoz
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SI
11/16/2025 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 11/16/2025 11:33pm
image 495

 

Code R and Guide R also had reach adjust (R beaing 'R'each adjust, S being Swing link and C being contact point adjustment in the RS(C) moniker.

So yeah, reach adjust or pivot bearings does not mean a swing link. As the picture above also shows. For the swing link you need another pivot higher up, closer to the clamp, that's a giveaway.

2
Finkill
Posts
233
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Location
GB
11/16/2025 11:38pm

For the Hope brake noise I wonder if something like this would be effective https://shop.morganblue.net/en/brake-silencer-paste.html

Back in the day when I got my first disc brakes I remember the advise to cure squeaky brakes was to apply copper grease to the back of the pads. 

AnttiH
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Tampere FI
11/17/2025 11:42am

I seem to have a habit of cooking brakes. Even with 223/2.3mm rotors I can get them discolored. I saw that Lewis make a 3mm thick 223mm rotor suited for E-motos. I know that hopes vented rotor only fits on V4’s and maven calipers but was thinking that would a 3mm thick rotor just manage to fit on ”normal” brake calipers? I currently run Radic Kaha’s (yes I know Radic state that 2.3mm is the max).

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