maybe they pull a grx and make it not a complete group?
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the new XTRs will be the new Saint brakes.
^yet to feel that way about a bike shop but been there 😂
While I think an increasingly modular Rallon seems unlikely. I do think it is an interesting to idea to have an updated frame that plays well with the old one to give racers and tinkerers more options. Fire off an extra round of the old molds (or potentially repackage your unsold product) as extra warranty/crash replacement stock and sell it to the people who want to get really nerdy. Or just might prefer the old bike they are used to to one with very small differences for gains that are often mostly opinion to a certain degree.
Certainly an interesting idea in a world where a lot of bike companies are struggling to offer people a tangible reason to buy a new bike. But if you always wished your bike had a longer chainstay and you didn’t have to buy an entire package because of a few diffirent standards to get it that might be the right formula for some brands going forward. Make minor changes year to year that really benefit long term ownership of a certain model. If this rallon is a success then it could very well be in Orbea’s interest to capitalize on that success by making sure the next rallon plays nicely with this one. And I think the further they can take that while not getting silly could very well be worth extra skus to make their product are more worthwhile long term buy to their customers. Especially if they find the modularity and tinkering aspects is what drew them to the new rallon in the first place.
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the...
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the new XTRs will be the new Saint brakes.
i don't think there were ever cassettes marketed or sold specifically for either group.
Airdrop dropped new batch of their bikes in limited-edition Stealthy look. I expected it to pop up here or on PB, but nothing so far. They...
Airdrop dropped new batch of their bikes in limited-edition Stealthy look. I expected it to pop up here or on PB, but nothing so far. They probably (and hopefully) will sell them anyways.
Thanks lord the Slacker is still not available in MX, I’d have a tough conversation with my wife.
Edit: one can’t upload pics from mobile here, am I right?
It's not available but you can definitely put a 29er front wheel on it if you really want. Then again, if you want a mixed wheel alloy dh bike with similar aesthetics, go Raaw.
I think it's Sixfinity, there's a lower link that rotates too so not a pivot on the front triangle.If Yeti did a run of regular bikes...
I think it's Sixfinity, there's a lower link that rotates too so not a pivot on the front triangle.
If Yeti did a run of regular bikes 150 to 170mm travel with that suspension I'd definitely be interested.
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I don't have the experience someone like DW does, so he definitely has some tricks up his sleeve that can make such a suspension design worth it!
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the...
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the new XTRs will be the new Saint brakes.
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I...
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I don't have the experience someone like DW does, so he definitely has some tricks up his sleeve that can make such a suspension design worth it!
As I understand it, a majority of us probably won't necessarily feel a difference, but it gives more ability to get the desired numbers for the designers..
As I understand it, a majority of us probably won't necessarily feel a difference, but it gives more ability to get the desired numbers for the...
As I understand it, a majority of us probably won't necessarily feel a difference, but it gives more ability to get the desired numbers for the designers..
I was an engineer on Felt's 6-bar link bikes and found it to be an immense PITA to work with. I don't feel it offers any advantages over other multilinks, different but not better. The extra parts inevitably weigh more, flex more, cost more, and present more opportunities for failure. Though it is possible to make good bikes with a 6-bar link, the experience motivated me to develop the most minimal multilink suspension I could devise.
Airdrop dropped new batch of their bikes in limited-edition Stealthy look. I expected it to pop up here or on PB, but nothing so far. They...
Airdrop dropped new batch of their bikes in limited-edition Stealthy look. I expected it to pop up here or on PB, but nothing so far. They probably (and hopefully) will sell them anyways.
Thanks lord the Slacker is still not available in MX, I’d have a tough conversation with my wife.
Edit: one can’t upload pics from mobile here, am I right?
It's not available but you can definitely put a 29er front wheel on it if you really want. Then again, if you want a mixed wheel...
It's not available but you can definitely put a 29er front wheel on it if you really want. Then again, if you want a mixed wheel alloy dh bike with similar aesthetics, go Raaw.
RAAW is sufficiently more expensive and for me personally it has different aesthetic. Raaw looks more angular and almost kinda boring to me, while Slacker is more like a modern Kona from the times I dreamed about being in a NWD movie :D
Would be fun to see this bike put against the clock with an impartial test rider on a variety of enduro world cup tracks.
It looks so sick for fast and rough DH style trails. But it's hard to believe it would perform against the clock on tight trails. Seems like almost all the enduro racers, whose livelihoods depend on results, are tending to size down for enduro racing.
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the...
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the new XTRs will be the new Saint brakes.
grx has no cassettes, uses mtb/road cassettes. new saint could just be a new version of the drivetrain, but you use the xtr brakes
I heard there was supposed to be a big shimano announcement today, anyone know when it got pushed to? I assume the recent price hike and general...
I heard there was supposed to be a big shimano announcement today, anyone know when it got pushed to?
I assume the recent price hike and general market conditions contributed but could be other reasons.
Apologies if this has been covered recently, I did a quick search and didn't see anything but haven't been keeping up on this thread recently.
no, the date has been set for early june for awhile now.(unless its actually been bought forward but Shimano said the below date) 5/6 june is expected date, Rep's around the world now have XTR wireless and brakes available to dealers. XT to follow in the weeks after. Upgrade kits similar to the original GX AXS will be available aswell.
Rumour is They will be available as soon as released by media(XTR, Saint.)
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I...
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I don't have the experience someone like DW does, so he definitely has some tricks up his sleeve that can make such a suspension design worth it!
a six bar can have antirise and axle path verly independet from another. on a four bar rearward axle path usually mean high antirise or at least lots of change in the antirise.
the Supreme V5 for example has a very consisten antirise of around 100% but is a high pivot bike
Small nerd correction: what Orbea is doing is really smart because they can make the same (or more) number of SKUs but reduce their CAPEX (mold...
Small nerd correction: what Orbea is doing is really smart because they can make the same (or more) number of SKUs but reduce their CAPEX (mold investments & tooling) significantly. Hypothetically, they can make 10 DH models and 10 Enduro models (lots of SKUs) but from a "single" mold investment and different metal links (reduced CAPEX). This is very challenging for Orbea because they have to essentially plan 2 different bikes in the same mold set up. More has to be figured out (compared to making separate DH and separate Enduro bikes) before they go to tooling.
We do a similar thing in the ski boot world where I can make lots of different SKUs (World Cup race boots, race-inspired boots, and freeride boots) all from one "single" (yet very modular & Lego-like) mold set up/investment.
TL/DR - they can have the same (or more) number of SKUs (if they want) but with less mold investment and CAPEX.
MM in the house with the insight! Had to ask my Salo' friend what SKU's meant
I'm assuming these are the bars they showed off last year at Sea Otter and never appeared again until now. The stem looks like it's slightly different from the previous version, as well.
I love the look of these bikes. I've only ever seen Aston talking about them, though, and the website is limited on info with ordering. Does anyone else have experience with ordering from him or owning one?
I love the look of these bikes. I've only ever seen Aston talking about them, though, and the website is limited on info with ordering. Does...
I love the look of these bikes. I've only ever seen Aston talking about them, though, and the website is limited on info with ordering. Does anyone else have experience with ordering from him or owning one?
He is not selling them so the only way to try it is go meet with him, that or win the raffle for the bike (that only happened recently I think).
I love the look of these bikes. I've only ever seen Aston talking about them, though, and the website is limited on info with ordering. Does...
I love the look of these bikes. I've only ever seen Aston talking about them, though, and the website is limited on info with ordering. Does anyone else have experience with ordering from him or owning one?
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I...
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I don't have the experience someone like DW does, so he definitely has some tricks up his sleeve that can make such a suspension design worth it!
The benefit is that you can have fairly high antisquat around sag point, but (like Yeti does with the dogbone link that goes over an inflection point, just like switch infinity) prevent excessive chain growth further in the travel to reduce pedal kickback.
I'm assuming these are the bars they showed off last year at Sea Otter and never appeared again until now. The stem looks like it's slightly different from the previous version, as well.
different because the former one was designed by 77designz
New mud guard apparatus for AON racing. I was thinking, could the mud affect a gate more than a chain if it gets thrown on it? (What the guard here seems to be for) A chainring tooth would fairly easy push any mud through the chain link gap, do gates do equally or less efficiently?
Did i miss a discussion about this Shimano lever design?
Did i miss a discussion about this Shimano lever design?
Maybe like 3-5 discussion, These are expected to be the new 9220 XTR Brake that should be released around june 5th with the new XTR Di2 wireless groupset. Similar design XT M8220 brakeset are rumored to be launched shortly after the XTR M9220.
So far no info/rumors if SLX or Deore might have similar levers update at a later date.
Aren’t the Saint/Zee cassettes just 10sp road cassettes so always been not a “complete” group? I have no info but seems obvious at this point the new XTRs will be the new Saint brakes.
^yet to feel that way about a bike shop but been there 😂
While I think an increasingly modular Rallon seems unlikely. I do think it is an interesting to idea to have an updated frame that plays well with the old one to give racers and tinkerers more options. Fire off an extra round of the old molds (or potentially repackage your unsold product) as extra warranty/crash replacement stock and sell it to the people who want to get really nerdy. Or just might prefer the old bike they are used to to one with very small differences for gains that are often mostly opinion to a certain degree.
Certainly an interesting idea in a world where a lot of bike companies are struggling to offer people a tangible reason to buy a new bike. But if you always wished your bike had a longer chainstay and you didn’t have to buy an entire package because of a few diffirent standards to get it that might be the right formula for some brands going forward. Make minor changes year to year that really benefit long term ownership of a certain model. If this rallon is a success then it could very well be in Orbea’s interest to capitalize on that success by making sure the next rallon plays nicely with this one. And I think the further they can take that while not getting silly could very well be worth extra skus to make their product are more worthwhile long term buy to their customers. Especially if they find the modularity and tinkering aspects is what drew them to the new rallon in the first place.
i don't think there were ever cassettes marketed or sold specifically for either group.
Horst Link/ Four Bar.
That's a big improvement but from a marketing standpoint...
I think it's Sixfinity, there's a lower link that rotates too so not a pivot on the front triangle.
If Yeti did a run of regular bikes 150 to 170mm travel with that suspension I'd definitely be interested.
that's still their sixfinity setup.
Looks like the same 6bar design as the SB160e
Aston-A-Tron history and review
It's not available but you can definitely put a 29er front wheel on it if you really want. Then again, if you want a mixed wheel alloy dh bike with similar aesthetics, go Raaw.
Sixfinity does look nice, but when I've tested 6-bar layouts in linkage, I can never find significant benefits over 4-bar that outweigh the added complexity. I don't have the experience someone like DW does, so he definitely has some tricks up his sleeve that can make such a suspension design worth it!
The best setup was an XT 10spd with the One Up 7spd adapter. Same range as a road cassette with more sensible gear jumps for DH.
As I understand it, a majority of us probably won't necessarily feel a difference, but it gives more ability to get the desired numbers for the designers..
I was an engineer on Felt's 6-bar link bikes and found it to be an immense PITA to work with. I don't feel it offers any advantages over other multilinks, different but not better. The extra parts inevitably weigh more, flex more, cost more, and present more opportunities for failure. Though it is possible to make good bikes with a 6-bar link, the experience motivated me to develop the most minimal multilink suspension I could devise.
RAAW is sufficiently more expensive and for me personally it has different aesthetic. Raaw looks more angular and almost kinda boring to me, while Slacker is more like a modern Kona from the times I dreamed about being in a NWD movie :D
Props to both brands though!
I heard there was supposed to be a big shimano announcement today, anyone know when it got pushed to?
I assume the recent price hike and general market conditions contributed but could be other reasons.
Apologies if this has been covered recently, I did a quick search and didn't see anything but haven't been keeping up on this thread recently.
Would be fun to see this bike put against the clock with an impartial test rider on a variety of enduro world cup tracks.
It looks so sick for fast and rough DH style trails. But it's hard to believe it would perform against the clock on tight trails. Seems like almost all the enduro racers, whose livelihoods depend on results, are tending to size down for enduro racing.
grx has no cassettes, uses mtb/road cassettes. new saint could just be a new version of the drivetrain, but you use the xtr brakes
no, the date has been set for early june for awhile now.(unless its actually been bought forward but Shimano said the below date)
5/6 june is expected date, Rep's around the world now have XTR wireless and brakes available to dealers.
XT to follow in the weeks after.
Upgrade kits similar to the original GX AXS will be available aswell.
Rumour is They will be available as soon as released by media(XTR, Saint.)
a six bar can have antirise and axle path verly independet from another. on a four bar rearward axle path usually mean high antirise or at least lots of change in the antirise.
the Supreme V5 for example has a very consisten antirise of around 100% but is a high pivot bike
MM in the house with the insight! Had to ask my Salo' friend what SKU's meant
I heard new Shimano brakes (with a new mineral oil?) in the 10 days from the shop
WAO released a limited run of stems and bars today, available on their website
https://www.weareonecomposites.com/en-us/products/the-bar-stem
https://www.weareonecomposites.com/en-us/products/the-stem
I'm assuming these are the bars they showed off last year at Sea Otter and never appeared again until now. The stem looks like it's slightly different from the previous version, as well.
I love the look of these bikes. I've only ever seen Aston talking about them, though, and the website is limited on info with ordering. Does anyone else have experience with ordering from him or owning one?
He is not selling them so the only way to try it is go meet with him, that or win the raffle for the bike (that only happened recently I think).
https://www.egerie-velo.com
The benefit is that you can have fairly high antisquat around sag point, but (like Yeti does with the dogbone link that goes over an inflection point, just like switch infinity) prevent excessive chain growth further in the travel to reduce pedal kickback.
different because the former one was designed by 77designz
New mud guard apparatus for AON racing. I was thinking, could the mud affect a gate more than a chain if it gets thrown on it? (What the guard here seems to be for) A chainring tooth would fairly easy push any mud through the chain link gap, do gates do equally or less efficiently?
Did i miss a discussion about this Shimano lever design?
Maybe like 3-5 discussion, These are expected to be the new 9220 XTR Brake that should be released around june 5th with the new XTR Di2 wireless groupset. Similar design XT M8220 brakeset are rumored to be launched shortly after the XTR M9220.
So far no info/rumors if SLX or Deore might have similar levers update at a later date.