I don't think they are building the motor as it says this on their website "The new eBike drive unit which is currently being developed by Porsche eBike Performance will be the heart of each platform we develop, ranging from e-mountain bikes to e-urban bikes."
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my...
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Another point on the cost is I recall seeing the numbers for 3d printing ti and they were pretty high, both for the tooling and the raw materials (although this was when Atherton was just getting going so they may have come down since then).
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my...
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Another point on the cost is I recall seeing the numbers for 3d printing ti and they were pretty high, both for the tooling and the...
Another point on the cost is I recall seeing the numbers for 3d printing ti and they were pretty high, both for the tooling and the raw materials (although this was when Atherton was just getting going so they may have come down since then).
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for just the cost of material.
If they had to buy the equipment themselves the business wouldn’t be viable. As evidenced by the cost of Pivot prototypes.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
Apart from what you've already mentioned, the jig to bond those together with acceptable alignment would cost more than the bag of parts of you just bought.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my...
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Yah, Atherton could require you to send a photo of the model car you built as a child as proof of your ability to align and glue parts!
But really, those bikes are assembled in jigs in a very specific order. The prep and amount of glue is very specific and yah, it's a safety thing.
Fun idea, but not practical and frankly, wouldn't save any money anyways.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my...
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Yah, Atherton could require you to send a photo of the model car you built as a child as proof of your ability to align and...
Yah, Atherton could require you to send a photo of the model car you built as a child as proof of your ability to align and glue parts!
But really, those bikes are assembled in jigs in a very specific order. The prep and amount of glue is very specific and yah, it's a safety thing.
Fun idea, but not practical and frankly, wouldn't save any money anyways.
Yup, one thing I've learned from making things out of all kinds of things from all kinds of materials is that glue can be one of the strongest joints when the parts have the correct clearance, surface finish, cleanliness, application method, fixturing, temperature and cure time but if just one of things is wrong it might be completely useless! A bike company could maybe control 1 or 2 of those things before shipping the parts out but leaving the rest in the hands of a customer is a recipe for disaster...
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for...
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for just the cost of material.
If they had to buy the equipment themselves the business wouldn’t be viable. As evidenced by the cost of Pivot prototypes.
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied most of its geo from the Giant Reign of the time. That was back when you input a bunch of measurements and they would suggest a size for you.
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for...
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for just the cost of material.
If they had to buy the equipment themselves the business wouldn’t be viable. As evidenced by the cost of Pivot prototypes.
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied...
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied most of its geo from the Giant Reign of the time. That was back when you input a bunch of measurements and they would suggest a size for you.
Was Weagle involved in founding/setting up Robot? I thought he was just a design consultant.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my...
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Not necessarily wth carbon-bonded frames, but Marino gives you the ability to custom make a bike with nearly any travel and suspension setup that you would like, it's all steel though. Fun little experiment with single pivot setups too. Have had a few friends build up hardtails and freeride rigs and they have held up well.
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for...
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for just the cost of material.
If they had to buy the equipment themselves the business wouldn’t be viable. As evidenced by the cost of Pivot prototypes.
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied...
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied most of its geo from the Giant Reign of the time. That was back when you input a bunch of measurements and they would suggest a size for you.
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied...
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied most of its geo from the Giant Reign of the time. That was back when you input a bunch of measurements and they would suggest a size for you.
Didn’t read the pivot article, but when I hear “cost to bring to market” I don’t think of MSRP, but rather what it “costs” the manufacturer. Guessing the cost of doing business is a number of times bigger for Pivot than for Atherton so they’ll need to find more margin on everything they sell.
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for...
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for just the cost of material.
If they had to buy the equipment themselves the business wouldn’t be viable. As evidenced by the cost of Pivot prototypes.
Renishaw, who makes the ti-printers, are a massive investor in Atherton bikes. So that helped a lot. Other than that, they hired the Robot bike engineers and bought the IP to the process.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
You would have to ship the alignment fixture to put it all together as well.
The secret sauce or added value in frames is not so much the design and making parts as much as putting everything together into a functioning, straight product is.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my...
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Yah, Atherton could require you to send a photo of the model car you built as a child as proof of your ability to align and...
Yah, Atherton could require you to send a photo of the model car you built as a child as proof of your ability to align and glue parts!
But really, those bikes are assembled in jigs in a very specific order. The prep and amount of glue is very specific and yah, it's a safety thing.
Fun idea, but not practical and frankly, wouldn't save any money anyways.
To be honest, they make the lugs in a correct way where the amount of glue needed is 'enough and then some to be sure'. Excess glue gets pushed out of the joint, but the complete overlap gets wetted.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
An awful lot of naysayers on this idea. Here is atleast a Steel 120mm trailbike that looks like it answers your DIY dream: https://www.rheintritt.nrw/Ruffy
An awful lot of naysayers on this idea. Here is atleast a Steel 120mm trailbike that looks like it answers your DIY dream: https://www.rheintritt.nrw/Ruffy
The plan with the Ruffy was never a fully mittered frame. Phil only wanted to send the tubes and they have to be mittered by someone as this is basically the most work to fit everything. The welding is the easy part.
I was/am pretty involved in the project and did my frame as a framebuilding course at his workshop last summer. Was an awesome experience and I love the bike.
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C...
I'm sure y'all have seen the ti printed prototype of the Pivot DH bike (as opposed to the machined aluminum proto that Kerr busted). Chris C estimates that the cost to bring this to the market would still be 2-2.5 times the price of the current all carbon model.
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
Bamboo DIY bikes are fairly readily available I believe. Edit: got beaten to it!! :Edit
As for Atherton I remember reading the carbon tubes are manufactured for sailing, masts, etc and import d from New Zealand? So it's just a case of cutting them to length and gluing then in. I believe manufacture of a carbon tube can be automated, rather than hand laid which can only bring the costs down.
The pivot design on the other hand has an odd bend in the down tube, and is a non-round shape, suggesting they hand lay those parts specifically for the frame. I guess the moulds/oven could be significantly smaller & cheaper than a full front triangle. Possibly letting them do it in-house?
Yeah, tha seems to be the case looking at the first sneak peak pictures that had a raw finish and now the latest ones with the same finish and sharpie markings...
Looks like mechanical T-Type as per the housing at the rear, the housing near handlebar/headset that is routed internally and the shifter shape that is not looking like the usual square POD.
The new Porsche full power motor will not be built by Fazua by all indications but rather by : https://www.p2ebike.com/
They are also building an in house battery factory : https://bikebiz.com/porsche-e-bike-performance-to-launch-in-house-batte…
I don't think they are building the motor as it says this on their website "The new eBike drive unit which is currently being developed by Porsche eBike Performance will be the heart of each platform we develop, ranging from e-mountain bikes to e-urban bikes."
Is this because of the custom carbon tubes I wonder? Or is Atherton just running with significantly higher unit costs? It can't be purely from scaling costs since Pivot isn't going to sell more than a thousand DH frames total for this model.
I ask because ever since Starling Bikes started with shed-made frames, and Robot Bikes launched before they became Atherton, I've been wondering about DIY frame kits. You make your own geometry and sizing, maybe you can choose between a few different suspension designs, then you get shipped a box of machined links, precut & mitered (or not, depending on your level of DIY) carbon tubing, and some 3D printed lugs. Oh, also som epoxy to glue it all together. High school me from decades ago would have loved this more than anything. Maybe you could order all steel tubing as well, and a basic welding kit or something.
Maybe its liability suicide to rely on your customers to glue their frames together on their own. Maybe the cost would always be too high. IDK, but if feasible, this would sound so fun for me and my son (in a few years, hes only 4) to do together.
For one, yeah if I was the CEO of a company that supplied DIY frame kits that contained what ever suspension design, Id be losing my hair at 26 because of lawsuits. People would not be buying bikes, they would be buying hospital trips on wheels. Then Id be buying an Army of lawyers to hopefully protect my ass haha.
But I did think about Atherton bikes having a frame that is very customizable using their tech. The frame would only be a single pivot for simplicity sake. But you get some freedom on the numbers, stiffness inserts, gearbox or not, intended travel, Atherton just makes sure you wont die. Id definitely buy a 170/150 27.5 gearbox atherton frame. ( I know. Im weird, thats okay.) I just dont want DW6 race ready, long reach, straight vertical seat post in my ass.
Anyways, something to note about cost in the frames, Athertons and Starlings, while different materials, use straight tubes. This Pivot frame does not. Im sure that can make a difference in cost to have even the smallest kink in a tube.
Another point on the cost is I recall seeing the numbers for 3d printing ti and they were pretty high, both for the tooling and the raw materials (although this was when Atherton was just getting going so they may have come down since then).
IIRC Atherton essentially got massively subsidized by either the 3d printing equipment being provided basically for free or they got to use someone else’s equipment for just the cost of material.
If they had to buy the equipment themselves the business wouldn’t be viable. As evidenced by the cost of Pivot prototypes.
Apart from what you've already mentioned, the jig to bond those together with acceptable alignment would cost more than the bag of parts of you just bought.
Yah, Atherton could require you to send a photo of the model car you built as a child as proof of your ability to align and glue parts!
But really, those bikes are assembled in jigs in a very specific order. The prep and amount of glue is very specific and yah, it's a safety thing.
Fun idea, but not practical and frankly, wouldn't save any money anyways.
Yup, one thing I've learned from making things out of all kinds of things from all kinds of materials is that glue can be one of the strongest joints when the parts have the correct clearance, surface finish, cleanliness, application method, fixturing, temperature and cure time but if just one of things is wrong it might be completely useless! A bike company could maybe control 1 or 2 of those things before shipping the parts out but leaving the rest in the hands of a customer is a recipe for disaster...
Bike in a bag, build your own!
They bought out, took over, whatever… the old Dave Weagle company Robot Bike Co. The original bike was a 160 travel 27.5 trail/enduro bike that copied most of its geo from the Giant Reign of the time. That was back when you input a bunch of measurements and they would suggest a size for you.
Was Weagle involved in founding/setting up Robot? I thought he was just a design consultant.
Not necessarily wth carbon-bonded frames, but Marino gives you the ability to custom make a bike with nearly any travel and suspension setup that you would like, it's all steel though. Fun little experiment with single pivot setups too. Have had a few friends build up hardtails and freeride rigs and they have held up well.
I thought it was one of the Dirt guys, Ed Haythornthwaite.
You’re right.
Didn’t read the pivot article, but when I hear “cost to bring to market” I don’t think of MSRP, but rather what it “costs” the manufacturer. Guessing the cost of doing business is a number of times bigger for Pivot than for Atherton so they’ll need to find more margin on everything they sell.
Wonder if they're still single lap joins like the original proto?
I saw they stuck with the bizarre double straight entry into the head tube
Renishaw, who makes the ti-printers, are a massive investor in Atherton bikes. So that helped a lot. Other than that, they hired the Robot bike engineers and bought the IP to the process.
You would have to ship the alignment fixture to put it all together as well.
The secret sauce or added value in frames is not so much the design and making parts as much as putting everything together into a functioning, straight product is.
To be honest, they make the lugs in a correct way where the amount of glue needed is 'enough and then some to be sure'. Excess glue gets pushed out of the joint, but the complete overlap gets wetted.
An awful lot of naysayers on this idea. Here is atleast a Steel 120mm trailbike that looks like it answers your DIY dream: https://www.rheintritt.nrw/Ruffy
The plan with the Ruffy was never a fully mittered frame. Phil only wanted to send the tubes and they have to be mittered by someone as this is basically the most work to fit everything. The welding is the easy part.
I was/am pretty involved in the project and did my frame as a framebuilding course at his workshop last summer. Was an awesome experience and I love the bike.
Looks like a UNNO emtb prototype on a DJI motor?
Calfee Designs has entered the chat. DIY Bamboo Bike Kit | Calfee Design
Bamboo DIY bikes are fairly readily available I believe. Edit: got beaten to it!! :Edit
As for Atherton I remember reading the carbon tubes are manufactured for sailing, masts, etc and import d from New Zealand? So it's just a case of cutting them to length and gluing then in. I believe manufacture of a carbon tube can be automated, rather than hand laid which can only bring the costs down.
The pivot design on the other hand has an odd bend in the down tube, and is a non-round shape, suggesting they hand lay those parts specifically for the frame. I guess the moulds/oven could be significantly smaller & cheaper than a full front triangle. Possibly letting them do it in-house?
Yeah, tha seems to be the case looking at the first sneak peak pictures that had a raw finish and now the latest ones with the same finish and sharpie markings...
likely just a special edition paint job, but cool nonetheless
went to check in w/ Chris Canfield at Vampire last week. super interesting stuff. showed his steel and new titanium bike and discussed it all. detail pics here https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/vampire-bikes-basement-chris-canfield
Another picture.
And on the same page :
New Whyte eMTB releasing March 6th.
Looks like mechanical T-Type as per the housing at the rear, the housing near handlebar/headset that is routed internally and the shifter shape that is not looking like the usual square POD.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DGlXg40olT8/?hl=fr