MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
2/14/2025 6:16am
w4s wrote:
you of all people should know to never say never.(edited with a non-ripped photo...and here's a link to that story! -gordo)https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/BCDs-Carbon-29er-Downhill-Bike-from-2007,3771/BCDs-Carbon-29er-DH-Bike-from-2007,36005/sspomer,2 

you of all people should know to never say never.

(edited with a non-ripped photo...and here's a link to that story! -gordo)

https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/BCDs-Carbon-29er-Downhill-Bike…

original_bike.JPG

 

kperras wrote:
The thing about 29ers is frame designers are still dealing with fitment issues, 20 years on. This is why we've seen all these various chainline, axle...

The thing about 29ers is frame designers are still dealing with fitment issues, 20 years on. This is why we've seen all these various chainline, axle, hub standards proliferate, not mention endless conversations around geometry. Paul Aston seems to be fine with 475mm rear centers but any good (technical) trail that I've ridden around the world plain doesn't work with titanic sized wheelbases.  

Last but not least, and understandably this the same argument some have with ebikes and we can see how many of those are on the trails now, I don't need bigger wheels to make things easier. The pendulum swung far enough with 29x3 and we all saw how that worked out for MTB (Desert touring setups disregard this comment).

We get messages at least once a month from someone in the desert Southwest who's pissed that we no longer make the Chronicle. 

I could never get along with plus tires. If I ran the pressures low enough to get a benefit in traction then the tire would fold and roll like crazy even in mellow corners. With enough pressure to provide cornering support, I was getting bounced all over the trail. For me, plus tires offered only downsides. I'm glad they were a relatively short lived fad in our fad obsessed industry. 

25
1
2/14/2025 10:45am

Floating/dynamic idler? 

4
2/14/2025 11:08am
airwreck wrote:

Nobody saw Cascades instagram post yesterday?

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGCEWu1Sy7m/

 

Almost looks like they're going to sell an entire rear end to convert an existing frame to high pivot(?) Looks like a green carbon frame + Cascade high pivot rear end. 

9
AJW1
Posts
72
Joined
5/11/2023
Location
Bracknell GB
2/14/2025 11:10am

All three of the components are in the same CNC'd style, including the bit that is either the entire chainstay, or a lower link in a VPP or similar lower link set-up.

My guess is a high pivot conversion for Santa Cruz. You can just about see the frame in the pic, there was a Megatower in that minty greeny colour at some point.... but also a recent Stumpy, which goes against my lower link theory.

4
AJW1
Posts
72
Joined
5/11/2023
Location
Bracknell GB
2/14/2025 11:15am
AJW1 wrote:
All three of the components are in the same CNC'd style, including the bit that is either the entire chainstay, or a lower link in a...

All three of the components are in the same CNC'd style, including the bit that is either the entire chainstay, or a lower link in a VPP or similar lower link set-up.

My guess is a high pivot conversion for Santa Cruz. You can just about see the frame in the pic, there was a Megatower in that minty greeny colour at some point.... but also a recent Stumpy, which goes against my lower link theory.

to quote myself, that green is the current stumpy 15, and the Megatower I was remembering is not the current version. Would like to change my vote to a new chainstay (with possible moving parts) and idler to make a stumpy a high pivot .... and possibly a 6 bar rather than 4 bar?

4
2/14/2025 11:17am

Looks like the Stumpy 15 green carbon frame. And it looks like the idler will move as suspension cycles. 

6
2/14/2025 11:44am
AJW1 wrote:
All three of the components are in the same CNC'd style, including the bit that is either the entire chainstay, or a lower link in a...

All three of the components are in the same CNC'd style, including the bit that is either the entire chainstay, or a lower link in a VPP or similar lower link set-up.

My guess is a high pivot conversion for Santa Cruz. You can just about see the frame in the pic, there was a Megatower in that minty greeny colour at some point.... but also a recent Stumpy, which goes against my lower link theory.

AJW1 wrote:
to quote myself, that green is the current stumpy 15, and the Megatower I was remembering is not the current version. Would like to change my...

to quote myself, that green is the current stumpy 15, and the Megatower I was remembering is not the current version. Would like to change my vote to a new chainstay (with possible moving parts) and idler to make a stumpy a high pivot .... and possibly a 6 bar rather than 4 bar?

Good eye, def looks to match this, also if it were for a SC, I think you'd see the shock/tunnel.

Gallery Image

6
sprungmass
Posts
236
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
2/14/2025 12:22pm

They have so much space behind the seat tube to install all that hardware. Looks like a fun project.

image 198
24
2/14/2025 12:23pm

I see your size-specific chainstay lengths and raise you – size-specific wheelsizes! 24" XS, 26" S, 27.5" M, 29" L, and 32" XL.

ballz wrote:

Bring 27.5 back for the 1SD around the mean.

But what about the mullets? won't somebody think About the MULLETS??

2
2/14/2025 12:28pm
29 wrote:
if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of...

if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of the 60 mile range. just in case you want your balls to fall off.


 


 

modern mountain biking is coming to an end

2
2/14/2025 12:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2025 12:36pm
sspomer wrote:

no way will 32 be for anything except XC or gravel, right? please? pretty please? make it stop?

Massive wheels are fun as hell. My 29+ rigid Surly Krampus with ~30.5" outer tire diameter is just a stupid monster truck/klunker, I absolutely love it. I'm 6'2", was always on board for 29" wheels, and definitely would try a 32" XC bike. Obviously they're not going to work well for shorter folks, does that even need to be reiterated to the people getting up in arms about it?

3
2/14/2025 12:51pm
Massive wheels are fun as hell. My 29+ rigid Surly Krampus with ~30.5" outer tire diameter is just a stupid monster truck/klunker, I absolutely love it...

Massive wheels are fun as hell. My 29+ rigid Surly Krampus with ~30.5" outer tire diameter is just a stupid monster truck/klunker, I absolutely love it. I'm 6'2", was always on board for 29" wheels, and definitely would try a 32" XC bike. Obviously they're not going to work well for shorter folks, does that even need to be reiterated to the people getting up in arms about it?

I remember watching Emeline Ragot ripping workd cup dh tracks on a 29er that looked massive for her... I am afraid we will see such things again, because "20% more traction and roll over obstacles"

29 ain't dead

9
ShapeThings
Posts
115
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA US
2/14/2025 2:38pm

Looks like the Stumpy 15 green carbon frame. And it looks like the idler will move as suspension cycles. 

Hopefully cascade bring to market a front triangle upgrade kit after they release this. 🙃

In all seriousness, this is rad and I hope Cascade make the chainstays longer. I know they elongate with a HP, but something more significant than stock, or an adjustable option for the long CS converts. 

4
2/14/2025 4:27pm
kperras wrote:
The thing about 29ers is frame designers are still dealing with fitment issues, 20 years on. This is why we've seen all these various chainline, axle...

The thing about 29ers is frame designers are still dealing with fitment issues, 20 years on. This is why we've seen all these various chainline, axle, hub standards proliferate, not mention endless conversations around geometry. Paul Aston seems to be fine with 475mm rear centers but any good (technical) trail that I've ridden around the world plain doesn't work with titanic sized wheelbases.  

Last but not least, and understandably this the same argument some have with ebikes and we can see how many of those are on the trails now, I don't need bigger wheels to make things easier. The pendulum swung far enough with 29x3 and we all saw how that worked out for MTB (Desert touring setups disregard this comment).

in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Front derailleur support
142 (non boost) rear spacing
Aluminum and Carbon builds
No reputation for snapping chainstays

Its all just excuses. 

The gen 1 Enduro 29 was not a good bike, but if Specialized engineers could do it over ten years ago, it can be done now

6
monarchmason
Posts
283
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
2/14/2025 6:33pm

You know I have worried about Cascade Components as bike companies are getting pretty dialed with stock suspension as it is for us non World Cup riders. Being less demand or less that Cascade could even change on a bikes kinematics. But this! This is actually really bad ass. Seriously this is so cool because now you have 2 bikes 1 frame technically. Like this is what pro riders must feel like when RnD says “Hey we heard you were not 100% with that link, so we altered it and the whole frame. Try this homie” If this is a whole rear end assembly to a stumpjumper, I would want one just to play around with for fun. Kudos to you Cascade. I hope for the best to you. 

12
2/14/2025 7:39pm
in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 430mm chainstaysFront derailleur support142 (non boost) rear spacingAluminum and Carbon buildsNo reputation for snapping chainstaysIts all just excuses. The gen 1 Enduro...

in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Front derailleur support
142 (non boost) rear spacing
Aluminum and Carbon builds
No reputation for snapping chainstays

Its all just excuses. 

The gen 1 Enduro 29 was not a good bike, but if Specialized engineers could do it over ten years ago, it can be done now

This. I had a 2014 OG Canfield Riot with 414 stays and 29x2.5 tire clearance. Chainline was a little fucky, but anyone that says you need super boost for tire clearance is drinking the Kool aid...and I own a Knolly.

16
bstens
Posts
79
Joined
3/29/2010
Location
Seattle, WA US
2/14/2025 8:42pm
This. I had a 2014 OG Canfield Riot with 414 stays and 29x2.5 tire clearance. Chainline was a little fucky, but anyone that says you need...

This. I had a 2014 OG Canfield Riot with 414 stays and 29x2.5 tire clearance. Chainline was a little fucky, but anyone that says you need super boost for tire clearance is drinking the Kool aid...and I own a Knolly.

Props for knolly comment

3
Konda
Posts
42
Joined
5/28/2023
Location
Kidderminster GB
2/15/2025 2:02am

I think the real question for cascade is :will you be able to run a derailleur cable??

8
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
2/15/2025 7:55am
airwreck wrote:

Nobody saw Cascades instagram post yesterday?

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGCEWu1Sy7m/

 

This is what "tech rumours and innovation" is about, So much more of this!  I'm a huge fanboy of the @CascadeComponents stuff, its functional bike jewellery, and I'm here for it!

This looks very much like a whole rear end to make a Stumpy a high pivot trail bike, and thats incredible

10
chriskief
Posts
720
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
2/15/2025 8:06am
sspomer wrote:
troy brosnan's cockpit from cannonball w/ flight attendant on fork and left hand pod for what would assumed be suspension control? what's up w/ the brake...

troy brosnan's cockpit from cannonball w/ flight attendant on fork and left hand pod for what would assumed be suspension control? what's up w/ the brake levers too?

Screen Shot 2025-02-15 at 8.53.54 AM

video here

https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/2025-race-talk?page=18#comment-5789…

11
2/15/2025 8:07am
You know I have worried about Cascade Components as bike companies are getting pretty dialed with stock suspension as it is for us non World Cup...

You know I have worried about Cascade Components as bike companies are getting pretty dialed with stock suspension as it is for us non World Cup riders. Being less demand or less that Cascade could even change on a bikes kinematics. But this! This is actually really bad ass. Seriously this is so cool because now you have 2 bikes 1 frame technically. Like this is what pro riders must feel like when RnD says “Hey we heard you were not 100% with that link, so we altered it and the whole frame. Try this homie” If this is a whole rear end assembly to a stumpjumper, I would want one just to play around with for fun. Kudos to you Cascade. I hope for the best to you. 

Feel more than free to boo me on over the companies-shutting-down-thread if this is too economic and not enough tech, but I'm going to be really curious to see the economics of selling your current frame and buying a different one vs the cascade linkage and rear end. For example, I eyed their Code calipers, but ultimately just bought new brakes.  And their links have always had an element of breathing life into an older frame for way less than the cost of a new one.

For the record, I love Cascade and I understand the realities of manufacturing high quality things in small quantities.  The folks at Cascade are sharp and have definitely thought of this. Maybe this product gives you something you can't get in a current frame?  

Regardless, it's another aspect of this that makes it, in my mind, one of the most interesting thing I've seen from the industry in a decent bit. 

7
kperras
Posts
154
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
2/15/2025 12:01pm
in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 430mm chainstaysFront derailleur support142 (non boost) rear spacingAluminum and Carbon buildsNo reputation for snapping chainstaysIts all just excuses. The gen 1 Enduro...

in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Front derailleur support
142 (non boost) rear spacing
Aluminum and Carbon builds
No reputation for snapping chainstays

Its all just excuses. 

The gen 1 Enduro 29 was not a good bike, but if Specialized engineers could do it over ten years ago, it can be done now

Haha OK. Yes 29er design peaked with the 2014 Enduro. I encourage you to double down on your statement, seek one out and replace all your other bikes with it.

3
14
airwreck
Posts
105
Joined
4/7/2015
Location
Wailuku, HI US
2/15/2025 12:23pm
Onawalk wrote:
This is what "tech rumours and innovation" is about, So much more of this!  I'm a huge fanboy of the @CascadeComponents stuff, its functional bike jewellery...

This is what "tech rumours and innovation" is about, So much more of this!  I'm a huge fanboy of the @CascadeComponents stuff, its functional bike jewellery, and I'm here for it!

This looks very much like a whole rear end to make a Stumpy a high pivot trail bike, and thats incredible

I'm glad to see all the comments, I saw the insta post and couldn't make any sense of it, I knew the crew here would.

2
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
2/15/2025 12:34pm
in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 430mm chainstaysFront derailleur support142 (non boost) rear spacingAluminum and Carbon buildsNo reputation for snapping chainstaysIts all just excuses. The gen 1 Enduro...

in 2014 my Enduro 29er had: 

430mm chainstays

Front derailleur support
142 (non boost) rear spacing
Aluminum and Carbon builds
No reputation for snapping chainstays

Its all just excuses. 

The gen 1 Enduro 29 was not a good bike, but if Specialized engineers could do it over ten years ago, it can be done now

kperras wrote:
Haha OK. Yes 29er design peaked with the 2014 Enduro. I encourage you to double down on your statement, seek one out and replace all your...

Haha OK. Yes 29er design peaked with the 2014 Enduro. I encourage you to double down on your statement, seek one out and replace all your other bikes with it.

Nobody said it peaked. Far from it. What was said and what I agree with is that said Enduro had short chainstays, front derailleur and a nonboost dropout. Probably did not run tires as wide as today, but yes, clearly packaging is not as big of an issue as it is claimed. 

4
kperras
Posts
154
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
2/15/2025 12:58pm

Packaging is indeed an issue that is still being stick-handled today. I've dealt with many frame designs over the years that compromise on features, stiffness, weight, cost, geometry, industrial design, manufacturing feasibility, etc. If that 2014 chassis was so perfect, then there would be little reason to stray from it. The actual STA alone makes that bike, both resulting from Specialized deciding that 430mm CS was the priority, a prominent packaging issue that would anchor bikes to the shop floor today. 

Pendulum on geo has swung pretty far out and has already started coming back. People of or near average size are figuring out that supersized bikes are not all that they were marketed to be. I'm not saying 32" wheels are bad, but they will be relegated to frame designs that are, at the smallest, XL or larger. Even then, you compromise on the riding experience you get from having huge wheels and wheelbase that don't quite fit on the trail. 

Keep in mind I'm always talking about high performance Trail, Enduro MTB as the needs here are much more focused. Things (Priorities) change when discussing XC, Offroad touring, gravel, etc. 

4
2
brash
Posts
941
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
2/15/2025 1:01pm

Bikes peaked at the 2014 Devinci Wilson, I've been chasing rear suspension that can compare for the last 10 years lol.

 

5
1
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

This forum thread has been locked.

The Latest