They will likely respond by saying "no no no, you are all wrong. This is true innovation. We are definitely not copying. Here are the 3 ways we are clearly different."
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished...
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished. Had one handlerbar clamp screw not able to tighten the clamp properly right out of the box. The power was OK, but for the price (I think it was $500 and change when I bought it) you can get yourself just about anything...Dominion A4s, Trp DHR Evos, Mavens, Maguras... Compared them side by side with the real deal Trickstuffs, and the difference was apparent. Even just the lever pull the TS had a bit more "refinement" and there was less play in the lever. In short - the brakes aren't the worst, but for the price there are MUCH better options. The cranks - there has to be a million ways to mill whatever pattern into the crank yet they had to be "inspired" by 5dev. It's BS, and my business will go to brands that actually innovate and do R&D.
For the most part us actual lewis owners are pretty stoked with what we've got. I can't recommend them enough, and I know plenty of others who feel the same.
That being said I can't decide how to feel about the crank rip off, because people with the real 5devs aren't happy with them anyways (snapping)
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished...
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished. Had one handlerbar clamp screw not able to tighten the clamp properly right out of the box. The power was OK, but for the price (I think it was $500 and change when I bought it) you can get yourself just about anything...Dominion A4s, Trp DHR Evos, Mavens, Maguras... Compared them side by side with the real deal Trickstuffs, and the difference was apparent. Even just the lever pull the TS had a bit more "refinement" and there was less play in the lever. In short - the brakes aren't the worst, but for the price there are MUCH better options. The cranks - there has to be a million ways to mill whatever pattern into the crank yet they had to be "inspired" by 5dev. It's BS, and my business will go to brands that actually innovate and do R&D.
But since when were 5dev the pioneers of cnc’d cranks and lattice structures.
Pretty sure guys like Goldtec played with stuff like that in the late 90’s that was just as snappy.
Of all the companies to copy Lewis have really chosen badly this time. At least Trickstuff are expensive and work bloody well. Apart from being on Neko’s bikes 5dev’s reputation is not glowing.
Don’t take this as defence of Lewis.But since when were 5dev the pioneers of cnc’d cranks and lattice structures.Pretty sure guys like Goldtec played with stuff...
Don’t take this as defence of Lewis.
But since when were 5dev the pioneers of cnc’d cranks and lattice structures.
Pretty sure guys like Goldtec played with stuff like that in the late 90’s that was just as snappy.
Of all the companies to copy Lewis have really chosen badly this time. At least Trickstuff are expensive and work bloody well. Apart from being on Neko’s bikes 5dev’s reputation is not glowing.
I think it's more the fact that if just cemented Lewis as a copy cat brand.
Their only 2 products are ripoffs of extremely expensive high end western designs made by small companies which just doesn't feel good.
Like what's next, they release a bike that looks exactly like a V10?
I suppose one potential upside of them copying that design is people will probably get to test how good their customer services are. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with things in comparison. 😅
FWIW I think there are already a couple of 5DEV copies available on Alibaba.
Trickstuff have a very expensive and good product but haven’t done any improvements for years (and years). 5Dev are also very expensive but their product is not that good (according to the grapevine)
I don’t feel sorry for either of them being copied and along with Lewis, neither are on the list of things I have any desire to buy.
I bought my wife some 155mm 5dev cranks and they were great. It was a couple years back and hard to get hold of shorter cranks that are more popular today. What's next on the list for Lewis to copy? I'm gonna bet it's either pedals or hubs.
Don’t take this as defence of Lewis.But since when were 5dev the pioneers of cnc’d cranks and lattice structures.Pretty sure guys like Goldtec played with stuff...
Don’t take this as defence of Lewis.
But since when were 5dev the pioneers of cnc’d cranks and lattice structures.
Pretty sure guys like Goldtec played with stuff like that in the late 90’s that was just as snappy.
Of all the companies to copy Lewis have really chosen badly this time. At least Trickstuff are expensive and work bloody well. Apart from being on Neko’s bikes 5dev’s reputation is not glowing.
Besides, you can already purchase sketchy fly by night versions of 5dev's cranks. What's one more to add to the pile? I'd say that ordering and running $70 Aliexpress 5Dev cranks on your mountain bike would be a cool way to die, but I'd be wrong. The cranks are not cool.
Our own @jeff.brines released his new product today: https://www.ralibike.com/ Blow it up for him! I'm interested in getting one for sure! FYI Jeff- link to known Chain...
Thanks for the post (and noting the broken link). I just took care of it. As to the questions...1) Its pretty light. The low variant has a...
Thanks for the post (and noting the broken link). I just took care of it.
As to the questions...
1) Its pretty light. The low variant has a smaller magnet and weighs ~66 grams (total) whereas the medium and tall variant have larger magnets and weigh ~88 grams (total). These are untrimmed numbers.
2) While pedaling, there is zero additional friction. Pedaling forces always pull the chain off the magnet (immediately, you will not notice it). Also, while in the higher part of your cassette (say, climbing) the magnet is further from the chain and the force significantly weaker, which is by design.
Cheers and thx for the support!
I love the idea, but because I'm an incurable pessimist, my first thought is that the chain continually passing through the magnetic field is going to magnetise it. If you live in an area with a significant amount of iron in the soil/dirt, this could become a problem?
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished...
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished. Had one handlerbar clamp screw not able to tighten the clamp properly right out of the box. The power was OK, but for the price (I think it was $500 and change when I bought it) you can get yourself just about anything...Dominion A4s, Trp DHR Evos, Mavens, Maguras... Compared them side by side with the real deal Trickstuffs, and the difference was apparent. Even just the lever pull the TS had a bit more "refinement" and there was less play in the lever. In short - the brakes aren't the worst, but for the price there are MUCH better options. The cranks - there has to be a million ways to mill whatever pattern into the crank yet they had to be "inspired" by 5dev. It's BS, and my business will go to brands that actually innovate and do R&D.
For the most part us actual lewis owners are pretty stoked with what we've got. I can't recommend them enough, and I know plenty of others...
For the most part us actual lewis owners are pretty stoked with what we've got. I can't recommend them enough, and I know plenty of others who feel the same.
That being said I can't decide how to feel about the crank rip off, because people with the real 5devs aren't happy with them anyways (snapping)
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own engineering, for basically the same price!
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished...
Yeah that's pretty blatant copying imho. Oh and the brakes are ok at best - I bought a set to test personally and it felt unpolished. Had one handlerbar clamp screw not able to tighten the clamp properly right out of the box. The power was OK, but for the price (I think it was $500 and change when I bought it) you can get yourself just about anything...Dominion A4s, Trp DHR Evos, Mavens, Maguras... Compared them side by side with the real deal Trickstuffs, and the difference was apparent. Even just the lever pull the TS had a bit more "refinement" and there was less play in the lever. In short - the brakes aren't the worst, but for the price there are MUCH better options. The cranks - there has to be a million ways to mill whatever pattern into the crank yet they had to be "inspired" by 5dev. It's BS, and my business will go to brands that actually innovate and do R&D.
For the most part us actual lewis owners are pretty stoked with what we've got. I can't recommend them enough, and I know plenty of others...
For the most part us actual lewis owners are pretty stoked with what we've got. I can't recommend them enough, and I know plenty of others who feel the same.
That being said I can't decide how to feel about the crank rip off, because people with the real 5devs aren't happy with them anyways (snapping)
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own...
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own engineering, for basically the same price!
I don't own any Lewis brakes but people seem to be happy with them from what I read in forums
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own...
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own engineering, for basically the same price!
I've had bad luck with Hope and wouldn't be buying their brakes unless the only alternative was code Rs.
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own...
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own engineering, for basically the same price!
And you know the Lewis is shit because it isn't made in a Western country? I had a feel of them on a bike and the lever is light touch, the bearings are tight and it is way more confidence inspiring quality than any mass produced S* branded brakes.
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own...
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own engineering, for basically the same price!
And you know the Lewis is shit because it isn't made in a Western country? I had a feel of them on a bike and the...
And you know the Lewis is shit because it isn't made in a Western country? I had a feel of them on a bike and the lever is light touch, the bearings are tight and it is way more confidence inspiring quality than any mass produced S* branded brakes.
You must either have a vivid mind or a great inability to read and comprehend, I haven’t said “Lewis is shit”
I said, at a similar price point, why would one get some knockoff brakes ( despite the good quality and “improvements” these are effectively Trickstuff knockoffs ) when you can get a real brake, no copy, properly made, like Hope.
In this example we have a British company operating for years, with knowledge and cheap and mostly easy to find spare parts, Vs a newer company with a sketchy background and business strategy, you do you.
I had the chance to, like you, get a feel of Lewis and Trickstuff back to back and the difference was quite there, different tolerances do make a different, I still believe that a Hope brake is worth the money better than a Lewis despite the latter still being a good product overall
I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion, but Lewis products are catered towards the crowd who only buys stuff on AliExpress with a guilty gut. They're nothing but rebranded white label products. You know, people who says Chinese=cheap/poor quality. This gives them the opportunity to justify their purchase because of the higher price point.
I bet their next offering will be a knockoff Ingrid rear derailleur, as those are already available on Ali, just like the 5Dev Chinesium cranks
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper "knock offs" as just as good as the real thing because "they are all made in the same factory." I mean, they probably are, but by paying for the actual product instead of the knock off you're also paying for the engineering (and marketing) that goes into the product, and at least the engineering portion of it is worth paying for. Granted, if you genuinely can't afford it and its your only option then... sure. Go for it, biking is expensive and I rather see folks on bikes than off of them. But if you're just being a cheapskate then you should really think about where your dollar goes and who it goes to.
I remember I had a couple friends who went out and bought cheeper carbon rims because of the "same factory" argument and they were just the stiffest piles of poor ride quality, and the little bit of time I spent on them trying them out made me appreciate compliance in a wheel set more so than I ever have done before. To this day they complain about harshness every time I ride with them.
NOW BACK TO RUMORS!
A little birdie told me Forbidden has a few new bikes coming out to fill out their line up. Taking their "one ride" geo philosophy to some other categories.
I, for one, welcome our new long chain stay overlords.
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?
The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that “same factory” line in years.
Anyway when was the last time you paid full RRP for a new bike? I doubt anyone on this forum ever has! It’s only natural to want to pay as little as possible. We’re all cheapskates
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that...
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?
The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that “same factory” line in years.
Anyway when was the last time you paid full RRP for a new bike? I doubt anyone on this forum ever has! It’s only natural to want to pay as little as possible. We’re all cheapskates
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that...
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?
The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that “same factory” line in years.
Anyway when was the last time you paid full RRP for a new bike? I doubt anyone on this forum ever has! It’s only natural to want to pay as little as possible. We’re all cheapskates
5Dev is made in-house in San Diego.
I’d be very impressed if they were using the same factory.
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that...
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?
The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that “same factory” line in years.
Anyway when was the last time you paid full RRP for a new bike? I doubt anyone on this forum ever has! It’s only natural to want to pay as little as possible. We’re all cheapskates
I think it goes without saying but the same factory line is only said by people with no understanding of manufacturing.
Yes it's the same factory, but you get what you pay for.
The exact same factory will put out incredibly high tolerance, high QC standard parts if you pay them and set the parameters.
Or they will put out low quality bulk product with no QC (good luck warranty department) because the western firm wants it as cheap as possible.
The same as the initial run is always good, as it gets checked properly and then quality can dive after the first batch delivery, so you have to stay on it.
Shimano getting parts made in Japan or Thailand makes no difference if they don't run the factories properly and continually QC, and importantly adjust the design for manufacturing tolerances.
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper...
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper "knock offs" as just as good as the real thing because "they are all made in the same factory." I mean, they probably are, but by paying for the actual product instead of the knock off you're also paying for the engineering (and marketing) that goes into the product, and at least the engineering portion of it is worth paying for. Granted, if you genuinely can't afford it and its your only option then... sure. Go for it, biking is expensive and I rather see folks on bikes than off of them. But if you're just being a cheapskate then you should really think about where your dollar goes and who it goes to.
I remember I had a couple friends who went out and bought cheeper carbon rims because of the "same factory" argument and they were just the stiffest piles of poor ride quality, and the little bit of time I spent on them trying them out made me appreciate compliance in a wheel set more so than I ever have done before. To this day they complain about harshness every time I ride with them.
NOW BACK TO RUMORS!
A little birdie told me Forbidden has a few new bikes coming out to fill out their line up. Taking their "one ride" geo philosophy to some other categories.
I, for one, welcome our new long chain stay overlords.
But at this point what categories are they missing other than (O)XC? I'd argue the Druid covers a wide enough breadth that it covers the trail/Am category nicely. Are they ready to pivot away from FS and get some hardtails out there? Other than the long CS doesn't really seem like their thing.
I think it goes without saying but the same factory line is only said by people with no understanding of manufacturing.Yes it's the same factory, but...
I think it goes without saying but the same factory line is only said by people with no understanding of manufacturing.
Yes it's the same factory, but you get what you pay for.
The exact same factory will put out incredibly high tolerance, high QC standard parts if you pay them and set the parameters.
Or they will put out low quality bulk product with no QC (good luck warranty department) because the western firm wants it as cheap as possible.
The same as the initial run is always good, as it gets checked properly and then quality can dive after the first batch delivery, so you have to stay on it.
Shimano getting parts made in Japan or Thailand makes no difference if they don't run the factories properly and continually QC, and importantly adjust the design for manufacturing tolerances.
Poorly Made in China is a good read that touches on that as far as manufacturers making what is asked of them, wild variability among manufacturers, cultural influences on that, etc.
People, mostly in the US it seems, like to yell about China but made in China doesn't automatically mean 'bad' or 'garbage' any more than made here in the US automatically means 'good' or 'quality'.
There is definitely a range there then between rip-off, homage (if you feel have a more charitable mood), a riff, innovative thing with quality revolving around on who is making it, who actually designed the thing, who is paying/not paying for it, all that good stuff.
It wasn’t me who said they were made in the same factory 🤦🏽
Sorry, I wasn't intending to call you out TIm, i was just continuing the discussion from your comment, I was agreeing with your comment that "the same factory" argument is so stupid.
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper...
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper "knock offs" as just as good as the real thing because "they are all made in the same factory." I mean, they probably are, but by paying for the actual product instead of the knock off you're also paying for the engineering (and marketing) that goes into the product, and at least the engineering portion of it is worth paying for. Granted, if you genuinely can't afford it and its your only option then... sure. Go for it, biking is expensive and I rather see folks on bikes than off of them. But if you're just being a cheapskate then you should really think about where your dollar goes and who it goes to.
I remember I had a couple friends who went out and bought cheeper carbon rims because of the "same factory" argument and they were just the stiffest piles of poor ride quality, and the little bit of time I spent on them trying them out made me appreciate compliance in a wheel set more so than I ever have done before. To this day they complain about harshness every time I ride with them.
NOW BACK TO RUMORS!
A little birdie told me Forbidden has a few new bikes coming out to fill out their line up. Taking their "one ride" geo philosophy to some other categories.
I, for one, welcome our new long chain stay overlords.
But at this point what categories are they missing other than (O)XC? I'd argue the Druid covers a wide enough breadth that it covers the trail/Am...
But at this point what categories are they missing other than (O)XC? I'd argue the Druid covers a wide enough breadth that it covers the trail/Am category nicely. Are they ready to pivot away from FS and get some hardtails out there? Other than the long CS doesn't really seem like their thing.
I own a set of Trickstuff and Lewis LHT’s. The TS brakes have a higher end finish and a smoother lever feel with a bit more power, but the Lewis are very nice and I think they are pretty sweet. I prefer the Lewis brakes over the Formula Cura’s I ran previously. Hate to say it, but the Lewis brakes are legit.
The benefit of having things made locally is that you can go berate the supplier who (invariably) screwed up in the span of a day and deal with it in your own language without translators screwing you over.
The benefit of having things made locally is that you can go berate the supplier who (invariably) screwed up in the span of a day and...
The benefit of having things made locally is that you can go berate the supplier who (invariably) screwed up in the span of a day and deal with it in your own language without translators screwing you over.
To a point. When I was working as a design engineer not in the bike industry we'd use local manufacturing for prototyping and often it was fucking pathetic, nothing like the drawing, totally unusable, and then you'd have to have arguments or pay extra to get what you actually wanted. Often the machinist "knew better" so disregarded the spec. Or you'd send your drawings off to China and you'd actually get what you asked for, with similar turnaround times, and pay FAR less. You just have to communicate your design intent extremely well, and have your drawings perfect.
I work with a few American companies now, bike industry and not, that supply from both asia and the USA. The stuff that comes out of the USA is the worst by far.
They will likely respond by saying "no no no, you are all wrong. This is true innovation. We are definitely not copying. Here are the 3 ways we are clearly different."
For the most part us actual lewis owners are pretty stoked with what we've got. I can't recommend them enough, and I know plenty of others who feel the same.
That being said I can't decide how to feel about the crank rip off, because people with the real 5devs aren't happy with them anyways (snapping)
Oh, they have R&D - Rip-off and Duplicate 😉
Don’t take this as defence of Lewis.
But since when were 5dev the pioneers of cnc’d cranks and lattice structures.
Pretty sure guys like Goldtec played with stuff like that in the late 90’s that was just as snappy.
Of all the companies to copy Lewis have really chosen badly this time. At least Trickstuff are expensive and work bloody well. Apart from being on Neko’s bikes 5dev’s reputation is not glowing.
I think it's more the fact that if just cemented Lewis as a copy cat brand.
Their only 2 products are ripoffs of extremely expensive high end western designs made by small companies which just doesn't feel good.
Like what's next, they release a bike that looks exactly like a V10?
I suppose one potential upside of them copying that design is people will probably get to test how good their customer services are. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with things in comparison. 😅
FWIW I think there are already a couple of 5DEV copies available on Alibaba.
Yeah. Like I said I wasn’t defending Lewis.
Just attacking the other two.
Trickstuff have a very expensive and good product but haven’t done any improvements for years (and years).
5Dev are also very expensive but their product is not that good (according to the grapevine)
I don’t feel sorry for either of them being copied and along with Lewis, neither are on the list of things I have any desire to buy.
Lewis should have ripped off Hollowgram sisl2 cranks but adapted them to run the SRAM 8 bolt interface and a 24mm axle.
I bought my wife some 155mm 5dev cranks and they were great. It was a couple years back and hard to get hold of shorter cranks that are more popular today. What's next on the list for Lewis to copy? I'm gonna bet it's either pedals or hubs.
Besides, you can already purchase sketchy fly by night versions of 5dev's cranks. What's one more to add to the pile? I'd say that ordering and running $70 Aliexpress 5Dev cranks on your mountain bike would be a cool way to die, but I'd be wrong. The cranks are not cool.
They should have copied EEwings!
I love the idea, but because I'm an incurable pessimist, my first thought is that the chain continually passing through the magnetic field is going to magnetise it. If you live in an area with a significant amount of iron in the soil/dirt, this could become a problem?
unless buying their cheapest option, i still fail to see why people are buying Lewis copy paste brakes instead of higher quality Hope with their own engineering, for basically the same price!
I don't own any Lewis brakes but people seem to be happy with them from what I read in forums
I've had bad luck with Hope and wouldn't be buying their brakes unless the only alternative was code Rs.
And you know the Lewis is shit because it isn't made in a Western country? I had a feel of them on a bike and the lever is light touch, the bearings are tight and it is way more confidence inspiring quality than any mass produced S* branded brakes.
You must either have a vivid mind or a great inability to read and comprehend, I haven’t said “Lewis is shit”
I said, at a similar price point, why would one get some knockoff brakes ( despite the good quality and “improvements” these are effectively Trickstuff knockoffs ) when you can get a real brake, no copy, properly made, like Hope.
In this example we have a British company operating for years, with knowledge and cheap and mostly easy to find spare parts, Vs a newer company with a sketchy background and business strategy, you do you.
I had the chance to, like you, get a feel of Lewis and Trickstuff back to back and the difference was quite there, different tolerances do make a different, I still believe that a Hope brake is worth the money better than a Lewis despite the latter still being a good product overall
I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion, but Lewis products are catered towards the crowd who only buys stuff on AliExpress with a guilty gut. They're nothing but rebranded white label products. You know, people who says Chinese=cheap/poor quality. This gives them the opportunity to justify their purchase because of the higher price point.
I bet their next offering will be a knockoff Ingrid rear derailleur, as those are already available on Ali, just like the 5Dev Chinesium cranks
Not that I have to tell the crowed on this form anything, but once again I get irked with people who try to pass off cheeper "knock offs" as just as good as the real thing because "they are all made in the same factory." I mean, they probably are, but by paying for the actual product instead of the knock off you're also paying for the engineering (and marketing) that goes into the product, and at least the engineering portion of it is worth paying for. Granted, if you genuinely can't afford it and its your only option then... sure. Go for it, biking is expensive and I rather see folks on bikes than off of them. But if you're just being a cheapskate then you should really think about where your dollar goes and who it goes to.
I remember I had a couple friends who went out and bought cheeper carbon rims because of the "same factory" argument and they were just the stiffest piles of poor ride quality, and the little bit of time I spent on them trying them out made me appreciate compliance in a wheel set more so than I ever have done before. To this day they complain about harshness every time I ride with them.
NOW BACK TO RUMORS!
A little birdie told me Forbidden has a few new bikes coming out to fill out their line up. Taking their "one ride" geo philosophy to some other categories.
I, for one, welcome our new long chain stay overlords.
Who said Lewis are made in the same factory as Trickstuff and 5Dev?
The Chinese and Asian factories are so good nowadays that I haven’t heard that “same factory” line in years.
Anyway when was the last time you paid full RRP for a new bike? I doubt anyone on this forum ever has! It’s only natural to want to pay as little as possible. We’re all cheapskates
2004 for me
5Dev is made in-house in San Diego.
I’d be very impressed if they were using the same factory.
Pretty sure Trickstuff is made in Germany too.
I think it goes without saying but the same factory line is only said by people with no understanding of manufacturing.
Yes it's the same factory, but you get what you pay for.
The exact same factory will put out incredibly high tolerance, high QC standard parts if you pay them and set the parameters.
Or they will put out low quality bulk product with no QC (good luck warranty department) because the western firm wants it as cheap as possible.
The same as the initial run is always good, as it gets checked properly and then quality can dive after the first batch delivery, so you have to stay on it.
Shimano getting parts made in Japan or Thailand makes no difference if they don't run the factories properly and continually QC, and importantly adjust the design for manufacturing tolerances.
It wasn’t me who said they were made in the same factory 🤦🏽
But at this point what categories are they missing other than (O)XC? I'd argue the Druid covers a wide enough breadth that it covers the trail/Am category nicely. Are they ready to pivot away from FS and get some hardtails out there? Other than the long CS doesn't really seem like their thing.
You're right about the 5dev/aliexpress stuff, we'd all probably benefit from moving on or risk hurting the feelings of the Chinese people.
Poorly Made in China is a good read that touches on that as far as manufacturers making what is asked of them, wild variability among manufacturers, cultural influences on that, etc.
People, mostly in the US it seems, like to yell about China but made in China doesn't automatically mean 'bad' or 'garbage' any more than made here in the US automatically means 'good' or 'quality'.
There is definitely a range there then between rip-off, homage (if you feel have a more charitable mood), a riff, innovative thing with quality revolving around on who is making it, who actually designed the thing, who is paying/not paying for it, all that good stuff.
Sorry, I wasn't intending to call you out TIm, i was just continuing the discussion from your comment, I was agreeing with your comment that "the same factory" argument is so stupid.
One word, E-Bike
I own a set of Trickstuff and Lewis LHT’s. The TS brakes have a higher end finish and a smoother lever feel with a bit more power, but the Lewis are very nice and I think they are pretty sweet. I prefer the Lewis brakes over the Formula Cura’s I ran previously. Hate to say it, but the Lewis brakes are legit.
The benefit of having things made locally is that you can go berate the supplier who (invariably) screwed up in the span of a day and deal with it in your own language without translators screwing you over.
To a point. When I was working as a design engineer not in the bike industry we'd use local manufacturing for prototyping and often it was fucking pathetic, nothing like the drawing, totally unusable, and then you'd have to have arguments or pay extra to get what you actually wanted. Often the machinist "knew better" so disregarded the spec. Or you'd send your drawings off to China and you'd actually get what you asked for, with similar turnaround times, and pay FAR less. You just have to communicate your design intent extremely well, and have your drawings perfect.
I work with a few American companies now, bike industry and not, that supply from both asia and the USA. The stuff that comes out of the USA is the worst by far.
Sadly western manufacturing aint all that.