I love Norco but Canadian Santa Cruz is gonna be a stretch, and should they even shoot for that? $1,500 Fluids, flat bar gravel/commuter bikes and...
I love Norco but Canadian Santa Cruz is gonna be a stretch, and should they even shoot for that? $1,500 Fluids, flat bar gravel/commuter bikes and even a steel gravel bike. These are all awesome! I’ll prolly never sell my road bike (2018 Search with a dropper and flat bars) because it only cost $450 to begin with! But, part of the Santa Cruz brand is you can only have it on your downtube if you pony up. It's bling to some extent. (100% bling on the Vala with it being crab link)
The other aspects of Santa Cruz that Norco does not embody are quality and warranty ease. 2020 Sight VLT was the absolute worst quality bike I've had by a large margin. (comparing to: Ibis, Transition, Santa Cruz, Specialized, Nukeproof) Maybe, (hopefully) their quality gone up in recent years. Their warranty department was really great when I broke the chainstays on that bike but that is NOT the experience I hear from others. I hear exclusively negative things about Norco's warranty. They have a looong way to go before they're percived as Transition or Santa Cruz are.
TL;DR: I've owned an XT level carbon Norco eeb and a $450 8sp gravel bike from Norco and the one that's still in my garage is the cheap gravel bike.
Regarding Santa Cruz and "production quality": https://www.instagram.com/p/CpDeo1FrApu/ The Nomad frame they use as an example shows voids in the lay-up, dry spots and other signs of...
The Nomad frame they use as an example shows voids in the lay-up, dry spots and other signs of delamination - and in the head tube junction of all places. That's pretty much the most structurally critical area of the entire frame. Their production quality really isn't any better than what you'll find at any other large brand.
Also, my own (anecdotal) experience with their production quality hasn't exactly been positive either. I had to warranty my 2023 Tallboy V5 CC three times within the span of like 10 months. First time, the frame started developing a crack at the front shock mount. Second time, the seat tube wasn't reamed properly. Third time, the bike developed a weird amount of flex in the front end. Turns out, the seat of the lower headset bearing had started developing a large crack. After that, I was done with Santa and I don't think I'll return any time soon.
Bottom line: You'll find these examples of extremely negative customer experiences for any big brand.
Working for shop that is a Norco and a Santa Cruz dealer, Santa Cruz has had far fewer, and far easier warranties to work with. Norco...
Working for shop that is a Norco and a Santa Cruz dealer, Santa Cruz has had far fewer, and far easier warranties to work with. Norco on the other hand has been a pain to work with, and the last gen Sight VLT has been awful. The design of the wiring harness and it's connection to the motor is the worst I've ever seen. It rattles and disconnects constantly. Hopefully the new one is better.
There’s a saying that might be before your time… “creaks like a Santa Cruz.”
Tire rumors, brake rumors, and Rocky/Norco rumors back in effect. Been about six months since I've seen a Slayer though, lol. Do people still buy Canadian bikes?. I asked some local dealers about them during the Pandemic, and they said they stopped selling them because of bad frame tolerances, and crap warrantee support.
I love Norco but Canadian Santa Cruz is gonna be a stretch, and should they even shoot for that? $1,500 Fluids, flat bar gravel/commuter bikes and...
I love Norco but Canadian Santa Cruz is gonna be a stretch, and should they even shoot for that? $1,500 Fluids, flat bar gravel/commuter bikes and even a steel gravel bike. These are all awesome! I’ll prolly never sell my road bike (2018 Search with a dropper and flat bars) because it only cost $450 to begin with! But, part of the Santa Cruz brand is you can only have it on your downtube if you pony up. It's bling to some extent. (100% bling on the Vala with it being crab link)
The other aspects of Santa Cruz that Norco does not embody are quality and warranty ease. 2020 Sight VLT was the absolute worst quality bike I've had by a large margin. (comparing to: Ibis, Transition, Santa Cruz, Specialized, Nukeproof) Maybe, (hopefully) their quality gone up in recent years. Their warranty department was really great when I broke the chainstays on that bike but that is NOT the experience I hear from others. I hear exclusively negative things about Norco's warranty. They have a looong way to go before they're percived as Transition or Santa Cruz are.
TL;DR: I've owned an XT level carbon Norco eeb and a $450 8sp gravel bike from Norco and the one that's still in my garage is the cheap gravel bike.
Regarding Santa Cruz and "production quality": https://www.instagram.com/p/CpDeo1FrApu/ The Nomad frame they use as an example shows voids in the lay-up, dry spots and other signs of...
The Nomad frame they use as an example shows voids in the lay-up, dry spots and other signs of delamination - and in the head tube junction of all places. That's pretty much the most structurally critical area of the entire frame. Their production quality really isn't any better than what you'll find at any other large brand.
Also, my own (anecdotal) experience with their production quality hasn't exactly been positive either. I had to warranty my 2023 Tallboy V5 CC three times within the span of like 10 months. First time, the frame started developing a crack at the front shock mount. Second time, the seat tube wasn't reamed properly. Third time, the bike developed a weird amount of flex in the front end. Turns out, the seat of the lower headset bearing had started developing a large crack. After that, I was done with Santa and I don't think I'll return any time soon.
Bottom line: You'll find these examples of extremely negative customer experiences for any big brand.
Working for shop that is a Norco and a Santa Cruz dealer, Santa Cruz has had far fewer, and far easier warranties to work with. Norco...
Working for shop that is a Norco and a Santa Cruz dealer, Santa Cruz has had far fewer, and far easier warranties to work with. Norco on the other hand has been a pain to work with, and the last gen Sight VLT has been awful. The design of the wiring harness and it's connection to the motor is the worst I've ever seen. It rattles and disconnects constantly. Hopefully the new one is better.
I had this exact issue with my 2020 Sight VLT, which is a gen before the one you're referring to I think. So funny to me Norco has redesigned that frame FIVE times since it's first gen in 2017. They had my Norco dealer (1hr away from me) just throw different electrical parts at it until it stopped turning off due to the harness issue. The experience of having my bike not turn on at the trailhead multiple times is why I'm hardline on removable battery. If the bike doesn't turn on, take the battery out, and I'll just pedal a 42lb bike for a lap or two and not be disappointed heading home.
My current gen Range VLT with Bosch has been flawless. They’ve been iterating rapidly. Also nice the rear end is so much shorter / mulleted than the previous gen.
My current Range high pivot bike is an insane descending bike - but it’s pretty clear that the I track / moving the idler to tune anti squat has leveled up their new optic/sight - this outgoing range just never felt great on the pedals - despite the weight.
Interesting take,No more niche than a Dreadnaught, or Slash, or Spire, or Claymore, or......Just a long travel "enduro/freeride" bike, that leans more towards DH performance than...
Interesting take,
No more niche than a Dreadnaught, or Slash, or Spire, or Claymore, or......Just a long travel "enduro/freeride" bike, that leans more towards DH performance than most. When compared to what youd actually ride/race, its not really that much heavier, and for the additional performance, worth the penalty.
I went with a Spire, but the Range was a very, very close second. Now I'm on a V2 Dreadnaught.....
See loads of em around here, ridden, raced, at the bike park. Might be location dependant.
I see what you're saying, But the spire is definitely not niche in my opinion, its just a big crab link. Dreddy or claymore come from smaller...
I see what you're saying, But the spire is definitely not niche in my opinion, its just a big crab link.
Dreddy or claymore come from smaller brands so according to my peanut brain they can do more interesting stuff with less risk. Slash is cool but still kind of basically a crab link HP??
I have not ridden any of them so I could just be totally out to lunch on this one, but it really seemed to me that the range was on the extreme end of descending focus and was a little bit of a dog as far as uphill performance is concerned.
Like some of the comments after yours have talked about. The range seemed to be part of a big pivot for the brand and I think that is sick. When the Optic, Sight, and Range came out it was like woah these guys are doing the most. So much so that I demo'd and bought a sight. I'm a huge Norco fanboy now and will probably buy a new optic for my next bike. (Also bought my dad a low pivot optic when I bought my sight) Maybe I live in a weird dead zone because some comments have mentioned seeing Range's a lot, but I have only seen 2 ranges in person on the "trail" and both were at bike parks. I ride a lot in SW WA and NW Oregon.
Long story long I'm stoked the range exists and I'd love to ride one but it seems way too gnarly to me for anything but shuttling. I think the "LT sight" is pretty good evidence that seems to be a common opinion. But also super stoked the direction that Norco is going, Their bikes are sick.
The Uber long, Uber slack, Uber low, long travel super enduro isnt' niche to you?
I think youre looking at it from todays point of view, cause in 21/22, it was definitely a low volume bike, that was not for everyone, or everywhere. Similar to the Range.....
I've been a Norco fan for ages, they have their upps and downs, like most companies. Back in the days of acid green VPS-1's and 2's, they were top tier bikes, but in a segment that was baggy Roach shorts, and old moto gear for protection. They had a weird period in the mid naughties, but theyve been making great bikes for a long time.
Theyre also one of NA's biggest parts, merch, accessory distros as well. I vividly remember flipping through their spiral bound catalogue, pricing Monster T's....
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat? Or maybe just a more obscure model/brand?
With the official death of the Scout, it's interesting to watch them drop like flies. It's kinda like NHLers still allowed to play without a visor. There's like 5 or less left. Slowly but surely lol
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat...
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat? Or maybe just a more obscure model/brand?
With the official death of the Scout, it's interesting to watch them drop like flies. It's kinda like NHLers still allowed to play without a visor. There's like 5 or less left. Slowly but surely lol
sb140 27.5 got replaced by the 135, nothing new coming
I disagree with him on many things regarding bicycles, but what he lists here seem like valid first generation product issues that need to be fixed for it to become a more widespread alternative to existing drivetrains.
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat...
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat? Or maybe just a more obscure model/brand?
With the official death of the Scout, it's interesting to watch them drop like flies. It's kinda like NHLers still allowed to play without a visor. There's like 5 or less left. Slowly but surely lol
sb140 27.5 got replaced by the 135, nothing new coming
Zink Bikes is dropping a new 27.5” model, I have no clue on geo and specs but this is what I’ve gleamed from ocbikeworks on Insta so far. “150 travel and it’s possible to run 26” in the back, but all the material shared with us suggests it’s meant for 27.5 without any mods. $1650 retail for the frame.” And like all shops they hook up the discount on parts to build it up. Has me intrigued for sure.
We’ll need a Dorado - Vaia shootout. Lots of similarities on paper.
Trek is supposedly working on a steel fs bike.
https://www.bikemag.com/industry-news/trek-teases-steel-full-suspension…
That's a good looking bike. Although if it comes to market, they'll need another name for it: https://www.pipedreamcycles.com/shop/tfm-the-full-moxie/
Wade's Pipedream.
https://bikes.com/en-ca/blogs/stories/wade-simmons-pipedream?srsltid=AfmBOoqEBblRA2J96RucLaMSlDVEjUFMlsJHRNGeWjt-gdZzMqJFAVHl
Man, Trek isn't even the first mountain bike manufacturer to make a one-off metal full suspension bike called the Pipedream. And with Wade's the name worked on additional levels which is better.
Damn, Brian beat me to it by moments.
Trek if youre here. Breath once…
Wade might just be the best rider / actor combo in the industry. Name a rider that does better acting jobs in ride videos?
The Vaia features floating bushings. That should make the biggest differnce other then ridefeel. Would be interesting for sure!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jL4AI2kp3o
Matty Miles!
Damn, that's such a sick vid. Thanks for the revisit, Bikaholic.
the only brand engineer to make a finals at the world cup - According to Kirk, Episode 2 from Norco (Kirk McDowall)
There’s a saying that might be before your time… “creaks like a Santa Cruz.”
Had two, they sucked.
Tire rumors, brake rumors, and Rocky/Norco rumors back in effect. Been about six months since I've seen a Slayer though, lol. Do people still buy Canadian bikes?. I asked some local dealers about them during the Pandemic, and they said they stopped selling them because of bad frame tolerances, and crap warrantee support.
Is that current brand engineer? Or else I think cesar rojo might think otherwise
I'd say the qualifier here is current...
I had this exact issue with my 2020 Sight VLT, which is a gen before the one you're referring to I think. So funny to me Norco has redesigned that frame FIVE times since it's first gen in 2017. They had my Norco dealer (1hr away from me) just throw different electrical parts at it until it stopped turning off due to the harness issue. The experience of having my bike not turn on at the trailhead multiple times is why I'm hardline on removable battery. If the bike doesn't turn on, take the battery out, and I'll just pedal a 42lb bike for a lap or two and not be disappointed heading home.
My current gen Range VLT with Bosch has been flawless. They’ve been iterating rapidly. Also nice the rear end is so much shorter / mulleted than the previous gen.
My current Range high pivot bike is an insane descending bike - but it’s pretty clear that the I track / moving the idler to tune anti squat has leveled up their new optic/sight - this outgoing range just never felt great on the pedals - despite the weight.
The Uber long, Uber slack, Uber low, long travel super enduro isnt' niche to you?
I think youre looking at it from todays point of view, cause in 21/22, it was definitely a low volume bike, that was not for everyone, or everywhere. Similar to the Range.....
I've been a Norco fan for ages, they have their upps and downs, like most companies. Back in the days of acid green VPS-1's and 2's, they were top tier bikes, but in a segment that was baggy Roach shorts, and old moto gear for protection. They had a weird period in the mid naughties, but theyve been making great bikes for a long time.
Theyre also one of NA's biggest parts, merch, accessory distros as well. I vividly remember flipping through their spiral bound catalogue, pricing Monster T's....
I might have missed that - what would floating bushes do for the Vaia’s feel and performance?
Theoretically, slide better under side loading especially deep into the stroke.
Check the hashtag… 🤔
i had been wondering what happened with them, Nicolai is the only company that has brought that to market.
and Nicolai no longer produces Lal bikes after some problems with Lal
Less binding. Alignment stays true through out the travel, in theory.
Yeah I noticed that on the website a bit ago, anybody know why this happened? They're only selling a udh version.
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat? Or maybe just a more obscure model/brand?
With the official death of the Scout, it's interesting to watch them drop like flies. It's kinda like NHLers still allowed to play without a visor. There's like 5 or less left. Slowly but surely lol
sb140 27.5 got replaced by the 135, nothing new coming
What problems with Lal? With the drivetrain, which seems pretty bombproof, or with the inventor, who seems a pretty nice guy?
Aston lists some of the problems in his review
https://www.astonmtb.bike/reviews/nicolai-nucleon-supre-drive
I disagree with him on many things regarding bicycles, but what he lists here seem like valid first generation product issues that need to be fixed for it to become a more widespread alternative to existing drivetrains.
Zink Bikes is dropping a new 27.5” model, I have no clue on geo and specs but this is what I’ve gleamed from ocbikeworks on Insta so far. “150 travel and it’s possible to run 26” in the back, but all the material shared with us suggests it’s meant for 27.5 without any mods. $1650 retail for the frame.” And like all shops they hook up the discount on parts to build it up. Has me intrigued for sure.
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