MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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HessianNate
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Kirkland, WA, USA
7/2/2024 8:00am

For the last year, there have been daily posts pondering about the new Stumpjumper.

PB is already getting paid to give it a 5 star review, why the hype? 

6
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seanfisseli
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7/2/2024 8:12am
Snfoilhat wrote:
I haven’t been thrilled with my time on a mid travel 29er, and despite my enduring hope that keeps me reading this forum, i can’t imagine...

I haven’t been thrilled with my time on a mid travel 29er, and despite my enduring hope that keeps me reading this forum, i can’t imagine that any tweak of geometry or suspension or material science is going to shift that sense of meh. My 2020 frame doesn’t even need new bearings yet. Mark off another year of hoping that the playbike category comes back.

What’s a play bike to you?

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seanfisseli
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7/2/2024 8:14am
For the last year, there have been daily posts pondering about the new Stumpjumper. PB is already getting paid to give it a 5 star review...

For the last year, there have been daily posts pondering about the new Stumpjumper.

PB is already getting paid to give it a 5 star review, why the hype? 

Like it or not, it’s the oldest mtb model still selling. On top of that, speci has a huge amount of money for r&d and a lot of folks look forward to see what they come up with. Mainstream-wise, they kinda set the pace for the other big brands. And finally, the stumpy and stumpy Evo have been pretty consistently awesome the last couple of iterations.

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gibbon
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wales, GB
7/2/2024 8:32am

Specialized launch

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2supple
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Denver, CO, USA
7/2/2024 8:58am Edited Date/Time 7/2/2024 9:00am
RE: New Stumpy... My big takeaway is when the company who arguably has the largest capex budgets in the industry keeps outputting new models that are...

RE: New Stumpy...

My big takeaway is when the company who arguably has the largest capex budgets in the industry keeps outputting new models that are small evolutions (Epic EVO, new Stumpy, don't forget Jordan beat Finn/Loic on the "old" demo last season), not revolutions, that tells me we've really hit a plateau of technological progression.

This isn't a bad thing, per se, unless you are in the business of selling bikes to bike nerds who used to think they needed the latest/greatest every year. 

FWIW, this has also happened in the moto, snowmobile, ski, road bike etc world, too, to the point where certain people find a vintage of a product they love, and stick with it even as companies keep outputting newer and "better" stuff. Heck, word on the street is GM has gone back to a 2019 40 for similar reasons...

EDIT: The whole Steve Jobs/Apple/Tech Bro "keynote" launching the bike was a bit silly and out of touch. Just my $0.02.

Elon Musk talked about delays in his FSD prediction - the error was thinking of innovation as exponential improvements. Instead he said it’s more like a series of stacked logarithmic curves, every so often there’s a big jump followed by small incremental gains, until the next big jump.

I think this is true for any industry and I’m not sure MTB is any different. Personally I don’t think bikes have plateaued, we’re just in a period of incremental improvements until the next jump. Who knows when it will be or what it looks like. But I’m willing to bet that in ten years, today’s bikes will feel no less obsolete than bikes of ten years ago feel today. 

6
nskerb
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Kelso, WA, USA
7/2/2024 9:11am

Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with these people.

32
7/2/2024 9:13am

S Curves.

The S-Curve: Musings on Technology, Professional Career, and ...

Progress still happens even near the top of the S curve, but it's like watching yourself age as you brush your teeth every morning. Day to day, you're seeing the same face in the mirror. Year to year... probably still pretty much seeing the same face. But jump 4-5 years, you've changed. Compare 2019 to 2024, taking the rise of the e-bike out of the picture, we're riding bikes that are yet longer and lower and slacker, steeper seat tubes, bigger brakes, often with some combination of better electronic shifting, high pivots, chain growth defeating tech, etc, etc. We're seeing stack and RC grow in cutting edge bikes now. In another year or two, that 2019 bike will be 'garbage,' and the EWS winning 2023 Stumpjumper will be good enough for blue trails for your dad. 

7
bnsleit
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Missoula, MT, USA
7/2/2024 9:19am
nskerb wrote:
Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with...

Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with these people.

All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable drivetrains. Hopefully it's mullet compatible (not restricted to S1/S2) otherwise those are two massive misses compared to the Evo. Other option to fill the gap between new stumpy and enduro might be a revamped Status 160? 

8
Glory831Guy
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Santa Cruz, CA, USA
7/2/2024 9:39am

Are they going to release an aluminum frame version of the new Stumpy at some point? Seems like a pretty solid bike all around, although $5,500 is pretty high for a 'base' model these days.

6
7/2/2024 9:50am

I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to cover new bike launches at this point? All you internet detectives seem to get the job done just fine haha 

I'm curious what people think about the Stumpy after they read through all the details. As you'll see, I only rode the bike for two days, but I really liked it. I gave more of an overview of how the GENIE shock works and focused more on what that translated to on the trail. It's definitely the most exciting aspect of the bike since everything else has remained pretty similar to the EVO (which I also think is a good thing). 

Also, there is no routing for cable-actuated drivetrains...

14
7/2/2024 10:03am
sspomer wrote:
vital's stumpy piece https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/bikes/specialized/stumpjumper-15-52751#comment-481676

So, a Super Delux with a meg neg?

meg neg is just a larger negative air chamber that you can tune back.  This appears to be a position based reduction in positive air chamber. 

5
hairyyy
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AD
7/2/2024 10:14am

I wouldn't class the shock on the stumpy as proprietary. It's a standard size.eye to eye so can be replaced with another readily available shock with same e2e. 

4
7/2/2024 10:18am

As someone who's going to be selling their current gen Stumpy Evo in the next year I'm glad to hear Specialized care about my resale value. 😄

6
bnsleit
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Missoula, MT, USA
7/2/2024 10:21am
I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to...

I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to cover new bike launches at this point? All you internet detectives seem to get the job done just fine haha 

I'm curious what people think about the Stumpy after they read through all the details. As you'll see, I only rode the bike for two days, but I really liked it. I gave more of an overview of how the GENIE shock works and focused more on what that translated to on the trail. It's definitely the most exciting aspect of the bike since everything else has remained pretty similar to the EVO (which I also think is a good thing). 

Also, there is no routing for cable-actuated drivetrains...

I'm sure it rides amazing but no way I'll be buying one until they release an alloy version compatible with cable derailleurs and a mullet link for size S3, there's just too many restrictive aspects (not to mention price) for me to consider today's models a bike that will last 5+ years. Which sucks because I held off on buying the alloy Evo frame in the hopes that this new version would be the ticket, and now I can't find an alloy S3 Evo frame anywhere. Will have to look elsewhere for my next bike 

3
7/2/2024 10:39am
I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to...

I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to cover new bike launches at this point? All you internet detectives seem to get the job done just fine haha 

I'm curious what people think about the Stumpy after they read through all the details. As you'll see, I only rode the bike for two days, but I really liked it. I gave more of an overview of how the GENIE shock works and focused more on what that translated to on the trail. It's definitely the most exciting aspect of the bike since everything else has remained pretty similar to the EVO (which I also think is a good thing). 

Also, there is no routing for cable-actuated drivetrains...

bnsleit wrote:
I'm sure it rides amazing but no way I'll be buying one until they release an alloy version compatible with cable derailleurs and a mullet link...

I'm sure it rides amazing but no way I'll be buying one until they release an alloy version compatible with cable derailleurs and a mullet link for size S3, there's just too many restrictive aspects (not to mention price) for me to consider today's models a bike that will last 5+ years. Which sucks because I held off on buying the alloy Evo frame in the hopes that this new version would be the ticket, and now I can't find an alloy S3 Evo frame anywhere. Will have to look elsewhere for my next bike 

I'll sell you an alloy evo frame with a WRP Mullet Yoke and a Cascade Link once that lightweight YT releases lol

2
seanfisseli
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Santa Cruz, CA, USA
7/2/2024 10:45am
nskerb wrote:
Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with...

Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with these people.

bnsleit wrote:
All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable...

All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable drivetrains. Hopefully it's mullet compatible (not restricted to S1/S2) otherwise those are two massive misses compared to the Evo. Other option to fill the gap between new stumpy and enduro might be a revamped Status 160? 

Am I mistaken? I thought they ship 29 but the 27.5 link is available for all sizes?

3
Eoin
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FR
Fantasy
7/2/2024 10:54am

I'm sure it's one of the nicest riding bikes out there, but that is a ton of money to severely limit your suspension and drivetrain choices.

7
timhvt
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Eden, VT, USA
Fantasy
7/2/2024 11:02am
nskerb wrote:
Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with...

Just saw on the PB article that there’s no routing option for a cable drive train on the new stumpy. What the fuck is wrong with these people.

bnsleit wrote:
All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable...

All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable drivetrains. Hopefully it's mullet compatible (not restricted to S1/S2) otherwise those are two massive misses compared to the Evo. Other option to fill the gap between new stumpy and enduro might be a revamped Status 160? 

Am I mistaken? I thought they ship 29 but the 27.5 link is available for all sizes?

Sizes S1 and S2 are Mullet only. S3 and up come as 29 but can be mullet with the link. I think it is confusing some. 

3
bnsleit
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Location
Missoula, MT, USA
7/2/2024 11:11am
bnsleit wrote:
All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable...

All this leads me to believe they'll release an alloy budget version like they did with the Epic and Chisel full squish that works with cable drivetrains. Hopefully it's mullet compatible (not restricted to S1/S2) otherwise those are two massive misses compared to the Evo. Other option to fill the gap between new stumpy and enduro might be a revamped Status 160? 

Am I mistaken? I thought they ship 29 but the 27.5 link is available for all sizes?

timhvt wrote:

Sizes S1 and S2 are Mullet only. S3 and up come as 29 but can be mullet with the link. I think it is confusing some. 

got me, thanks for confirming! well that solves one of my two deal breaker issues

1
noodlenosteeze
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Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
7/2/2024 11:19am
I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to...

I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to cover new bike launches at this point? All you internet detectives seem to get the job done just fine haha 

I'm curious what people think about the Stumpy after they read through all the details. As you'll see, I only rode the bike for two days, but I really liked it. I gave more of an overview of how the GENIE shock works and focused more on what that translated to on the trail. It's definitely the most exciting aspect of the bike since everything else has remained pretty similar to the EVO (which I also think is a good thing). 

Also, there is no routing for cable-actuated drivetrains...

The naming of that shock is too close to "Gemini" for me to consider going near it. 

3
jeff.brines
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Grand Junction, CO, USA
7/2/2024 11:39am
2supple wrote:
Elon Musk talked about delays in his FSD prediction - the error was thinking of innovation as exponential improvements. Instead he said it’s more like a...

Elon Musk talked about delays in his FSD prediction - the error was thinking of innovation as exponential improvements. Instead he said it’s more like a series of stacked logarithmic curves, every so often there’s a big jump followed by small incremental gains, until the next big jump.

I think this is true for any industry and I’m not sure MTB is any different. Personally I don’t think bikes have plateaued, we’re just in a period of incremental improvements until the next jump. Who knows when it will be or what it looks like. But I’m willing to bet that in ten years, today’s bikes will feel no less obsolete than bikes of ten years ago feel today. 

Few thoughts here, being this is something I often think about. 

First, I agree that most technology changes in big jumps followed by long periods of optimization. I can point at all sorts of things, such as the jet engine to showcase this type of pattern. 

That said, what I am really saying as its applied to bicycles is very simple -  I no longer am compelled to buy a new bike every 12-24 months for me to find any incremental improvement when it comes to going faster or going faster more consistently. I've observed this phenomonia since about 2019/2020, and it shows no signs of stopping. 

Does this mean things don't change or there are no improvements? No. But I have strong evidence that bike technology, as measured by a riders ability to go down a hill faster and more consistently faster, was improving materially year over year up until the 2019/2020 marker. 

To my point, if I were to go grab an off the shelf Enduro from 2020 (the latest one that is many years old), I'd be hard pressed to find any bike from 2024 that would let me go faster. Sure, part of the problem is the rider (I'm 39, not 19 - and never was that good in the first place), but I can also point to other examples of this in the sport (with much better riders). 

So to your final sentence, the same way I happily ski on skis that are 10 years old, when I have brand new ones to also ski, or the way you'll see a good rider show up to an XC moto race on a 10 year old bike and still be competitive in the A/AA class, I'd bet there will be bikes that pass the test of time in a way they wouldn't have in the 2010-2020 decade. 

 

10
austin-NC
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Location
Lincolnton, NC, USA
7/2/2024 11:40am

Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram. 

If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit. 

25
2
jonkranked
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Norristown, PA, USA
7/2/2024 11:50am

shock isn't proprietary, but OEM only for this frame. 

1
1
7/2/2024 11:51am
austin-NC wrote:
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock...

Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram. 

If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit. 

Correct, the GENIE shock can be swapped with any 210x55 shock. The patent-pending proprietary part is the two-chamber design. 

5
jonkranked
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Norristown, PA, USA
7/2/2024 11:52am

follow up question on the schwable clik valve - couldn't find a max pressure listed anywhere. not for operating pressure of the valve itself, but the pump interface.  if it can handle the pressures seen on road bikes it might actually have a chance. 

2
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