MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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6/24/2024 6:37am

I know it isn't going to, but I want the Big Hit to come back. Mullets are in, it's got the nostalgia factor for the generation that is starting to spend big money on mountain bikes... Aluminum, mullet 160/160 and 180/170 options, give me a long rear and and a low BB...

7
grinch
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6/24/2024 7:33am
dustyaf wrote:

Probably a new kenevo. Theyve been offloading the old kenevos for a while now

6/24/2024 7:40am
dustyaf wrote:

grinch wrote:

Probably a new kenevo. Theyve been offloading the old kenevos for a while now

Same with the new Stumpjumper. Could be that as well. 

3
HexonJuan
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6/24/2024 11:12am
I know it isn't going to, but I want the Big Hit to come back. Mullets are in, it's got the nostalgia factor for the generation...

I know it isn't going to, but I want the Big Hit to come back. Mullets are in, it's got the nostalgia factor for the generation that is starting to spend big money on mountain bikes... Aluminum, mullet 160/160 and 180/170 options, give me a long rear and and a low BB...

They kinda have that with the Status, at least in 160 variation. There was a pic some time ago about what was posited as the neu & impruved Status with the longer travel of your second request.

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6/24/2024 12:57pm
Primoz wrote:
FWIW gen 2 Hightowers Megatowers sideloaded their shocks quite a bit judging by the amount of air in the damper when doing a service. And they...

FWIW gen 2 Hightowers Megatowers sideloaded their shocks quite a bit judging by the amount of air in the damper when doing a service. And they don't use a shock extender...

Yup those SC bikes do some weird stuff, the rocker is super rigid & the leverage is pretty high so any slight misalignment or buckling gets transferred straight to the shock itself. Normally traditional eyelets at both ends is super reliable but those seem to be an outlier.

 

The yoke destroying shocks thing is not even slightly overblown! Its just buckling forces on a slender part.....the longer you make it the more it wants to buckle when compressed. I have piles of broken shocks from nearly every brand that has been wrecked by shock extenders. Coil and air, fox, rockshox, cane creek, DVO.....even the latest air spring models with larger steel shafts and damper bodies get ruined at a far greater rate than other bikes

Service techs noticed this trend a long time ago - its not just yoke bikes but they are the ones almost guaranteed to wreck shocks as soon as you use one that is not quite strong enough or the mounting bolt isn't torqued 100%.

 Problem seems to be the frame makers are flat out refusing to acknowledge any responsibility and suspension manufacturers aren't pushing back hard enough. Fox FINALLY added their TSB for coil shocks (https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1138) a few years ago, but bikes brands and shops don't seem to even be aware of it because I still regularly get people who have been told by brands on that list that their Fox DHX2 is fine! Yet I have it on my bench with a broken eyelet.

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6/24/2024 6:14pm
Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never...

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as Chris Kings but at a lower price point. 

6
6/24/2024 6:25pm
Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never...

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as...

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as Chris Kings but at a lower price point. 

Pretty much, DT and King are the only 2 hub brands I have total faith in. I worked at the king importer here when they acquired it, I wasn't super in to the brand at all, but after several years working on them and dealing with the company they would be one of the brands I regard highest out of anyone in the industry. DT 350s are pretty much what I will choose if the budget doesn't stretch to CK - they just work 

11
NicoZesty96
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6/24/2024 6:46pm
Yup those SC bikes do some weird stuff, the rocker is super rigid & the leverage is pretty high so any slight misalignment or buckling gets...

Yup those SC bikes do some weird stuff, the rocker is super rigid & the leverage is pretty high so any slight misalignment or buckling gets transferred straight to the shock itself. Normally traditional eyelets at both ends is super reliable but those seem to be an outlier.

 

The yoke destroying shocks thing is not even slightly overblown! Its just buckling forces on a slender part.....the longer you make it the more it wants to buckle when compressed. I have piles of broken shocks from nearly every brand that has been wrecked by shock extenders. Coil and air, fox, rockshox, cane creek, DVO.....even the latest air spring models with larger steel shafts and damper bodies get ruined at a far greater rate than other bikes

Service techs noticed this trend a long time ago - its not just yoke bikes but they are the ones almost guaranteed to wreck shocks as soon as you use one that is not quite strong enough or the mounting bolt isn't torqued 100%.

 Problem seems to be the frame makers are flat out refusing to acknowledge any responsibility and suspension manufacturers aren't pushing back hard enough. Fox FINALLY added their TSB for coil shocks (https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1138) a few years ago, but bikes brands and shops don't seem to even be aware of it because I still regularly get people who have been told by brands on that list that their Fox DHX2 is fine! Yet I have it on my bench with a broken eyelet.

than you for speaking the truth, who better than someone that work with suspensions can say something about poor design creating problems!

3
ARonBurgundy
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6/24/2024 7:29pm
Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never...

Just to echo this, there's a reason King hubs are used on nearly every tandem build. I've personally broken both Hydras and Torches, but I've never seen a King broken and worked at a bike shop (King dealer) for 5 years

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as...

I got so sick of breaking rear hubs I switched all my bikes to dt Swiss 350s and 240s. I assume they are as durable as Chris Kings but at a lower price point. 

Pretty much, DT and King are the only 2 hub brands I have total faith in. I worked at the king importer here when they acquired...

Pretty much, DT and King are the only 2 hub brands I have total faith in. I worked at the king importer here when they acquired it, I wasn't super in to the brand at all, but after several years working on them and dealing with the company they would be one of the brands I regard highest out of anyone in the industry. DT 350s are pretty much what I will choose if the budget doesn't stretch to CK - they just work 

And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone. 
 

I recently built up two sets of wheels with DT 350s and they’ve been great so far 🤞

Speaking of hubs, just got an email from OneUp announcing their new hubs. They look pretty promising and I’ve had good experiences with many of their products. 

8
6/24/2024 7:46pm

These look great. Also, best product launch video I've ever seen. No bullshit.

5
ZAKBROWN!
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6/24/2024 8:25pm
sprungmass wrote:

Speaking of hubs, looks like OneUp entered the chat. Pretty impressive price point too. 

https://can.oneupcomponents.com/collections/hubs

They look good but I don't understand why more companies don't build in the ability to switch between 15mm and 20mm Boost spacing for the front hub.  I9 Hydra, Spank Hex, and possibly Hope are the only ones I know of that can do that.  I have 2 sets of wheels with I9 Hydra front hubs for this reason - that way I can pull a wheel off my enduro bike and use it on my DH bike if I need to.  

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boozed
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6/24/2024 8:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2024 8:51pm
And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone.    I recently built up two...

And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone. 
 

I recently built up two sets of wheels with DT 350s and they’ve been great so far 🤞

Speaking of hubs, just got an email from OneUp announcing their new hubs. They look pretty promising and I’ve had good experiences with many of their products. 

Interesting note from the product pages:

OneUp Hubs use a OneUp-specific ratchet and spring. You can use a OneUp Ratchet in your DT Swiss™ hub (which requires an additional spacer), but you cannot use a DT Swiss™ Ratchet in a OneUp Hub.

Nice to have a cheaper and trustworthy alternative, but the OneUp ratchet is 44t.  If I'm upgrading from 36t, I'm still going to 54t (insert rant about 54t not already being standard fitment).

7
6/24/2024 8:50pm

Oneup... about to dominate anther product market, Those guys are seriously awesome to deal with... realistic pricing aswell.

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Whattheheel
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6/24/2024 9:40pm

Oneup... about to dominate anther product market, Those guys are seriously awesome to deal with... realistic pricing aswell.

Reminds me I need to order some grips.  Thanks. 

2
boozed
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6/24/2024 10:10pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2024 10:12pm
New from Magura

New from Magura

Are we entering a new era of bulky calipers?

Edit: or... that's a motorcycle brake?

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1
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6/24/2024 11:02pm
New from Magura

New from Magura

boozed wrote:

Are we entering a new era of bulky calipers?

Edit: or... that's a motorcycle brake?

That’s the old Gustav M. The new one they teased looks to be more in line with MT5/7

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TimBud
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6/24/2024 11:14pm

Oneup lost me when I saw they use a cassette locking as a bearing retainer - "Getting the lockring to catch the threads can be a bit finicky. Spinning the lockring backwards until it catches and drops into the start of the threads in the hub shell will help align it." Queue the home mechanics stripping those threads and writing off the hub.

Otherwise it does look good. It's quite cool what they've done with the ratchet allowing the spring to recess into it.

I wonder if they'll offer other engagement options down the line.

4
3
Primoz
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6/24/2024 11:24pm
sprungmass wrote:

Speaking of hubs, looks like OneUp entered the chat. Pretty impressive price point too. 

https://can.oneupcomponents.com/collections/hubs

ZAKBROWN! wrote:
They look good but I don't understand why more companies don't build in the ability to switch between 15mm and 20mm Boost spacing for the front...

They look good but I don't understand why more companies don't build in the ability to switch between 15mm and 20mm Boost spacing for the front hub.  I9 Hydra, Spank Hex, and possibly Hope are the only ones I know of that can do that.  I have 2 sets of wheels with I9 Hydra front hubs for this reason - that way I can pull a wheel off my enduro bike and use it on my DH bike if I need to.  

20 mm axle requires even thinner (and weaker) bearings if you want to keep a hub axle compared to a 15 mm axle hub.

7
dom
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6/24/2024 11:35pm
New from Magura

New from Magura

 IS instead of postmount?

5
Primoz
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6/25/2024 12:09am
TimBud wrote:
Oneup lost me when I saw they use a cassette locking as a bearing retainer - "Getting the lockring to catch the threads can be a...

Oneup lost me when I saw they use a cassette locking as a bearing retainer - "Getting the lockring to catch the threads can be a bit finicky. Spinning the lockring backwards until it catches and drops into the start of the threads in the hub shell will help align it." Queue the home mechanics stripping those threads and writing off the hub.

Otherwise it does look good. It's quite cool what they've done with the ratchet allowing the spring to recess into it.

I wonder if they'll offer other engagement options down the line.

Possibly reusing their pedal lockrings... No problems there to be honest.

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Slavid666
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6/25/2024 12:52am

Not to muddy the waters, but I wanted to chip in my 2c, been running a stumpy Evo for 3 years now. Killed the dpx2 that came with it in 2 months. Put a float x in as a replacement and got it to suck air after 6months. Rebuilt it a few times then got a DVO jade off PB buy/sell used. Have been on that for 1.5 seasons with 30+ trips to nor-cal bike parks… I’ve only pulled it apart to do some shim tuning, zero issues with it and I’m 215lbs currently, and a solid rear wheel durability tester (Ive destroying rear wheels on a regular basis for the last 25years of riding MTB’s) As someone that has had a hard time keeping rear shocks alive regardless of the bike, yoke or not, I am of the opinion that there’s more to it than yokes being the root of all evil. Tol stacks are real, and most engineers that I’ve worked with over the years (am one as well) do a sh*tty job of taking actual production measurement data and feeding it back into the tol stack. You can design the best product in the world with a perfect looking tolerance stack based on print nominals and RMS calcs but it’s a different animal when you take real world measurement data off manufactured parts and feed 3.29sigma std dev numbers back into a tolerance stack. What was nominal is usually not nominal anymore and things tend to drift outside of LMC or MMC situations. Long story short, don’t blame the design, blame the engineer…

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Primoz
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6/25/2024 2:17am

Blaming the design vs. blaming the engineer is more or less the same thing. If I learned something at work is that you REALLY need to know what you are doing, and, even more important, how you are doing it. It is the how that will determine what kind of tolerances you can prescribe to a part and that will define how things will fit together and in turn how things will work. I'd say this is the main issue, designing things without knowing how they will be produced (and I mean to the minute details of the processes), what the methods mean for part manipulation and resulting tolerances (and other properties) and how everything fits together.

One problem with yokes though, you might be designing your frames and miiiiiight be able to hold tolerances nice and tight or even design a frame to take up the slack with loose tolerances (Santa Cruz pivot hardware being a good case of this, if the collet axles work as intended of course), but there is still the question mark of what do the shock do? How tight are the tolerances on shock eyelets? Can one eyelet be misaligned to the other one? Can there be other problems?

Based on the production processes I'd bet on the frames being the problematic part of the equation most of the times, but maybe there are cases when they are not actually the issue?

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3
6/25/2024 3:56am
And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone.    I recently built up two...

And all this time I thought it was just me blowing up rear hubs! Glad to know I’m not alone. 
 

I recently built up two sets of wheels with DT 350s and they’ve been great so far 🤞

Speaking of hubs, just got an email from OneUp announcing their new hubs. They look pretty promising and I’ve had good experiences with many of their products. 

boozed wrote:
Interesting note from the product pages: OneUp Hubs use a OneUp-specific ratchet and spring. You can use a OneUp Ratchet in your DT Swiss™ hub (which...

Interesting note from the product pages:

OneUp Hubs use a OneUp-specific ratchet and spring. You can use a OneUp Ratchet in your DT Swiss™ hub (which requires an additional spacer), but you cannot use a DT Swiss™ Ratchet in a OneUp Hub.

Nice to have a cheaper and trustworthy alternative, but the OneUp ratchet is 44t.  If I'm upgrading from 36t, I'm still going to 54t (insert rant about 54t not already being standard fitment).

54T ratchet rings chip like mad in any high torque scenario. I'm guessing that's the reason OneUp settled on 44T. 

6
1
krabo83
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6/25/2024 4:45am Edited Date/Time 6/25/2024 4:48am

54T ratchet rings chip like mad in any high torque scenario. I'm guessing that's the reason OneUp settled on 44T. 

5th season on my 240s with 54t and zero issues… only lots of miles.

6

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