MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Dave_Camp
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6/20/2024 9:19am
Is clothing technology permitted in this tech thread? Or does it have to be rumor related as well? Because I'm a stinky guy, but man this...

Is clothing technology permitted in this tech thread? Or does it have to be rumor related as well? Because I'm a stinky guy, but man this morning I just got back from a 3000+ vert ride in the sun and I sweated like Fauci at a Senate hearing but when I got home my wife commented how my merino wool jersey (51%, $25 on sale at EVO) had 0 BO smell. This isn't the first time this miracle has manifested. Also, I feel it is excellent in the cold (sub 55 degrees) and heat as well. 

How about starting a “things that work well” thread?  

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TEAMROBOT
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6/20/2024 10:41am
Dave_Camp wrote:

How about starting a “things that work well” thread?  

Steel bolts work pretty well.

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Dave_Camp
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6/20/2024 10:59am
TEAMROBOT wrote:

Steel bolts work pretty well.

What alloy and coating? 
 

devils in the details 

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dolface
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6/20/2024 11:41am
Dave_Camp wrote:

What alloy and coating? 
 

devils in the details 

"devil's..." Wink

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Suns_PSD
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6/20/2024 2:34pm
The Mara and Mara Pro use a fixed negative spring pressure, and every review I've read has pointed to that as a glaring flaw in an...

The Mara and Mara Pro use a fixed negative spring pressure, and every review I've read has pointed to that as a glaring flaw in an otherwise decent shock package. I doubt sales have been strong for either shock, and I would not be surprised if Manitou introduced an updated version with a self-equalizing (or at least adjustable) air spring.

Yep. I'm hoping for some change in negative spring. I've got a Mara Pro on my Propain Hugene and feel like I'm between the two volume...

Yep. I'm hoping for some change in negative spring. I've got a Mara Pro on my Propain Hugene and feel like I'm between the two volume air cans.

With the king can (high volume, more linear spring) it bottoms out too easily. I'd like to add more air pressure but I end up with basically zero sag. I'm currently running the smaller air can (more progression) and it is a hair too progressive and it is almost impossible to use the last bit of travel. 

With an adjustable or self equalizing negative spring I think the king can would work. 

The Mara Pro has some incredible qualities; however it needs an independently adjustable negative chamber.

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TEAMROBOT
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6/20/2024 3:17pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

What alloy and coating? 
 

devils in the details 

I don't know, but the worst steel bolts I've ever used on a bicycle have still been better than the best aluminum bolts.

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6/20/2024 3:22pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

What alloy and coating? 
 

devils in the details 

TEAMROBOT wrote:

I don't know, but the worst steel bolts I've ever used on a bicycle have still been better than the best aluminum bolts.

A lot of bikes would be about 50% better and more reliable if they just changed most of the fasteners to steel.

 

I only say most because there's probably some where it doesn't matter, although I can't think of it right now

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NoahColorado
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6/20/2024 3:56pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2024 3:57pm
Seagrave7 wrote:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-specializeds-mtb-product-team-on-moving-to-auburn-new-suspension-concepts-and-rider-feedback.html The new Stumpjumper?    

They should sell these in limited quantities and call them the S-Works Stumpjumper Ultimate – a throwback to their OG lugged carbon bike the S-Works Epic Ultimate. I imagine there's a market for these even if they were a $9,999 frameset.

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dolface
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6/20/2024 4:39pm
Seagrave7 wrote:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-specializeds-mtb-product-team-on-moving-to-auburn-new-suspension-concepts-and-rider-feedback.html The new Stumpjumper?    

That's not much seatpost insertion depth

Looks like UDH though so presumably it's a current frame?

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Jon_Angieri
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6/20/2024 5:43pm

Why do you think they’re staying with the long yoke as part of their linkage? 

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Dave_Camp
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6/20/2024 6:18pm

Why do you think they’re staying with the long yoke as part of their linkage? 

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

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6/20/2024 8:56pm

Why do you think they’re staying with the long yoke as part of their linkage? 

Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

Yup. Total non issue unless you run spindly little coil shocks. 

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Primoz
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6/20/2024 10:44pm
Seagrave7 wrote:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-specializeds-mtb-product-team-on-moving-to-auburn-new-suspension-concepts-and-rider-feedback.html The new Stumpjumper?    

That's not much seatpost insertion depth

The current stumpjumper has the same issue...

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Primoz
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6/20/2024 11:09pm

As far as I can see it's the same principle of drilling holes that the cheese grater Mac Pro used?

On the other hand... 160 mm, 180 mm, 220 mm and a 254 mm for whatever reason (10 inches?). And in the middle of it all, freaking 203 mm. Because why do equal 20 mm steps when you can fuck the system with the most widespread rotor size (200/203 size in general) of late.

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NicoZesty96
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6/21/2024 12:54am

Why do you think they’re staying with the long yoke as part of their linkage? 

Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

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TimBud
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6/21/2024 12:58am
what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure...

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

Yeah that’s just it. Specialized don’t see the warranty because they push it all to Fox and RS.

And then there’s the shocks that are sent off for service when they could be warrantied.

And even then there’s the riders that just don’t realise there’s a problem

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Primoz
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6/21/2024 1:06am

FWIW gen 2 Hightowers Megatowers sideloaded their shocks quite a bit judging by the amount of air in the damper when doing a service. And they don't use a shock extender...

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SteveClimber
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6/21/2024 1:19am

Why do you think they’re staying with the long yoke as part of their linkage? 

Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure...

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

Its quite hard to get a horst link bike to drive a shock mounted on the top tube without using a clevis yoke. Its definitely not impossible, but most of the designs you see with a top tube mounted shock are either VPP(dual link designs, ala SB120, Commencal tempo) or single pivots (or even linkage driven single pivots/flex stays Santa Cruz Blur).

They have prioritised their rear suspension design over a loss in shock life essentially.

Pretty similar how most enduro bikes use trunnion because it packages easier, despite the fact we know its worse for shock wear.

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6/21/2024 1:20am

Why do you think they’re staying with the long yoke as part of their linkage? 

Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure...

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

If you had a Stevo and didn’t think it was good then i think you need to look inwards my friend, those bikes freaking rip. 
They were designed to use an air shock.. if you want to run a coil then deal with the consequences.

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Primoz
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6/21/2024 1:25am
Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure...

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

Its quite hard to get a horst link bike to drive a shock mounted on the top tube without using a clevis yoke. Its definitely not...

Its quite hard to get a horst link bike to drive a shock mounted on the top tube without using a clevis yoke. Its definitely not impossible, but most of the designs you see with a top tube mounted shock are either VPP(dual link designs, ala SB120, Commencal tempo) or single pivots (or even linkage driven single pivots/flex stays Santa Cruz Blur).

They have prioritised their rear suspension design over a loss in shock life essentially.

Pretty similar how most enduro bikes use trunnion because it packages easier, despite the fact we know its worse for shock wear.

It's quite hard to do a corotating Horst link bike with a top tube mounted shock, much easier to do so when the links are counterrotating. Qed, Bird, Rocky Mountain, Nukeproof (with the caveat the shock is downtube mounted, but could easily be top tube mounted and be better for it due to bottle clearance) and probably quite a few more.

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SteveClimber
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6/21/2024 1:40am
what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure...

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

Its quite hard to get a horst link bike to drive a shock mounted on the top tube without using a clevis yoke. Its definitely not...

Its quite hard to get a horst link bike to drive a shock mounted on the top tube without using a clevis yoke. Its definitely not impossible, but most of the designs you see with a top tube mounted shock are either VPP(dual link designs, ala SB120, Commencal tempo) or single pivots (or even linkage driven single pivots/flex stays Santa Cruz Blur).

They have prioritised their rear suspension design over a loss in shock life essentially.

Pretty similar how most enduro bikes use trunnion because it packages easier, despite the fact we know its worse for shock wear.

Primoz wrote:
It's quite hard to do a corotating Horst link bike with a top tube mounted shock, much easier to do so when the links are counterrotating...

It's quite hard to do a corotating Horst link bike with a top tube mounted shock, much easier to do so when the links are counterrotating. Qed, Bird, Rocky Mountain, Nukeproof (with the caveat the shock is downtube mounted, but could easily be top tube mounted and be better for it due to bottle clearance) and probably quite a few more.

Yeah precisely. And we know that Specialized love their horst link bikes with the seat stay have a rocker connected to the upper/mid seat tube as almost all of their bikes have this configuration (even the prototype Demo that drives the shock from under the BB shell with a pull link). Hell the enduro has his too and drives the shock with its extra link of that pivot.

I think its just the design language for Specialized, so unless they find a really good reason to swap, theyll stick with it so their bikes have a consistent look 

 

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Primoz
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6/21/2024 1:56am

And consistent kinematics. While I haven't taken an in depth look at things, generally the counter rotating horst link bikes should be more similar in kinematics to a VPP Santa Cruz bike than to a Specialized. The same link can be made between dw link/maestro and specialized bikes compared to counter rotating link bikes.

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NicoZesty96
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6/21/2024 3:16am
Dave_Camp wrote:

The advantages outweigh the small number of additional broken shocks. 

 

the yoke shock breaking thing is overblown imo. Ive seen warranty %s.

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure...

what would be the advantages other than lazy design? it seems just dumb to use a shock extender that is known to cause premature seal failure, side loading and snaps coil, it doesn't even feel that good. i've had one and it was garbage, a friend had a levo and it went through 3 shocks in 6 months, that's just crap.

If you had a Stevo and didn’t think it was good then i think you need to look inwards my friend, those bikes freaking rip.  They...

If you had a Stevo and didn’t think it was good then i think you need to look inwards my friend, those bikes freaking rip. 
They were designed to use an air shock.. if you want to run a coil then deal with the consequences.

i had the 2017 specialized Enduro and it was as beautiful as bad performing ( super beautiful ) i tried the stumpy ST and LT and the Evo all in 2020 and the newest Evo as well, nothing terrific honestly, Offering, Tyee, Hightower, Switchblade, all are way better imo ( tried all not just imagining ) 

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Oldngrey
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6/21/2024 5:24am

100% wool is where its at with odor. Theres some advantages to synthetics and blends but not with smell.

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Dave_Camp
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6/21/2024 5:33am

I think it’s 2024, both frame and shock manufacturers have reeled in the yoke issues and learned from previous mistakes.

Everyone above did a better job than I can explaining the advantages- shock location, leverage rate, appearance etc.

My 2 mountain bikes both have yokes- not too concerned.

 

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