MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
5/1/2024 1:45pm
Simcik wrote:
This is full on getting back to the skinsuit that was removed from DH racing years ago because it did not fit the image of the...

This is full on getting back to the skinsuit that was removed from DH racing years ago because it did not fit the image of the sport. Was not a fan of it when they stuck Christian Craig in it for supercross earlier this year. Not a fan of it in DH. Can't get the mental image of Kirkaldie in a skin suit out of my head now. Thanks... 

I like the idea of the pants/vest + Jersey, I thought it was long sleeve like what Christain Craig raced in SX. I think it looks...

I like the idea of the pants/vest + Jersey, I thought it was long sleeve like what Christain Craig raced in SX. I think it looks sick, it’s not any tighter than what Loic and Finn ride.   

bermed wrote:
Relatedly, I have always thought Loic and Finn's getups look so dope. I hate how most MTB gear is baggy and ill-fitting. Has anyone had luck...

Relatedly, I have always thought Loic and Finn's getups look so dope. I hate how most MTB gear is baggy and ill-fitting. Has anyone had luck finding MTB gear that with a similar fit to Loic and Finn's fits? I'm not talking about skin suits, just properly fitted gear.

My NF pants fit tight, they're stretchy and super comfortable but that's only because I have large legs from weightlifting (also have short femurs).

I think the fox suits are fine, it's like standard road kit (bib shorts) but just worn the other way round. 

I think it's a great innovation, one piece suits work great in other sports. My ninja suit for snowboarding is one of my best ever purchases 

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1
veefour
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Cinderford GB
5/1/2024 1:54pm
Snfoilhat wrote:
In 2012 I found a NOS pair of Fox Push pants I believe were from around the Palmer era and wore them until I came to...

In 2012 I found a NOS pair of Fox Push pants I believe were from around the Palmer era and wore them until I came to my senses. So heavy. I'd want to see some better evidence anyone's 90s moto nostalgia is for the good of gravity mtb compared to what's come since :D

Bring back the gimp suit! 

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RaggedEdge
Posts
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12/5/2017
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Austin, TX US
5/1/2024 2:01pm

Exactly the point, "it's like standard road kit". I like what Norco and NS are doing and materials have gotten a little better since 2012. Not the end of the world, its just not a good direction IMO. 

1
sethimus
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CH
5/1/2024 2:09pm
Simcik wrote:
This is full on getting back to the skinsuit that was removed from DH racing years ago because it did not fit the image of the...

This is full on getting back to the skinsuit that was removed from DH racing years ago because it did not fit the image of the sport. Was not a fan of it when they stuck Christian Craig in it for supercross earlier this year. Not a fan of it in DH. Can't get the mental image of Kirkaldie in a skin suit out of my head now. Thanks... 

I like the idea of the pants/vest + Jersey, I thought it was long sleeve like what Christain Craig raced in SX. I think it looks...

I like the idea of the pants/vest + Jersey, I thought it was long sleeve like what Christain Craig raced in SX. I think it looks sick, it’s not any tighter than what Loic and Finn ride.   

bermed wrote:
Relatedly, I have always thought Loic and Finn's getups look so dope. I hate how most MTB gear is baggy and ill-fitting. Has anyone had luck...

Relatedly, I have always thought Loic and Finn's getups look so dope. I hate how most MTB gear is baggy and ill-fitting. Has anyone had luck finding MTB gear that with a similar fit to Loic and Finn's fits? I'm not talking about skin suits, just properly fitted gear.

there is this old profession called a tailor. you can bring them clothing and they fit them for your body. 

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2
dolface
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5/1/2024 2:09pm

I don't get the naysayers; it's racing and manufacturers are spending a lot of money gain every fraction of a second they can from the bike and suspension.

Aero clothing is an easy win; per Cathro the skinsuits they wore were worth ~1 sec/km  at race pace and if I was racing you can bet your sweet aunt Sally that I'd jump all over that advantage, looks be damned.

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5/1/2024 2:14pm

The jersey and pants/vest are two different pieces. I don't see how you think it's a one-piece suit.

kane wrote:
Because it's a one piece trouser/vest suit that is worn over a baselayer. If the the top was worn over the vest then you could claim...

Because it's a one piece trouser/vest suit that is worn over a baselayer. If the the top was worn over the vest then you could claim it's a jersey but as it is it shouldn't be allowed and looks rubbish.

I've also heard a rumour that Fox are a developing a new helmet with an internal peak...

This photo shows the vest. I originally thought it was arms all in one. This seems legit to go around the rules “one piece” but the skin suit definition is getting blurry for many riders.

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brash
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AU
5/1/2024 2:27pm

So you can take a dump in this one without having a port at the back?

All I can think of is cameron macadoo's balls flopping about lol. That ruined skinsuits for me.

 

 

 

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ahleic09
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Bend, OR US
5/1/2024 2:54pm

Yeti has been running similar vest/compression shirts for some time now and I’ve always wanted to get my hands on one of the vests. I find a similar combo works well in super hot/humid conditions. Unfortunately every vest I’ve found has a more lax bro vibe. 

2
ahleic09
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5/1/2024 3:00pm

One the topic of aerodynamic clothing the course ski racing can be informative. FIS has extensive rules governing the permeability of gs suits and the clothing that can be worn underneath as impermeable rubberized layers are more aerodynamic than other woven cloths. FIS tests suits and prohibits the wearing of swim suits and similar materials underneath suits.  
 

one interesting thing to think about is training speed. In ski racing a run in a gs suit is ~5-10% faster, a difference that is noticeable and sometimes disorienting if you don’t train in a suit. Even if the fox kits aren’t legal for race runs there is a potential logic to training in aero kits to more easily replicate race pace to avoid race day surprises. 

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Dave113
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Location
Lafayette, CO US
5/1/2024 3:28pm

The obvious solution is skinsuits for women and baggies for men. For men the garment can have requirements to be so much larger than the rider's measurements, so for example if he's got a 40" chest the shirt must have a 42" chest. Bicep +1", thigh +1.5", etc. 

23
TEAMROBOT
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Los Angeles, CA US
5/1/2024 3:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2024 3:49pm

The jersey and pants/vest are two different pieces. I don't see how you think it's a one-piece suit.

I don't think it's a one-piece suit, I think it's a skin suit. The word "suit" doesn't mean one-piece, it means that all the pieces of a garment form one unit of garment. For instance, a men's formal suit can be a two-piece suit (slacks and jacket) or a three-piece suit (slacks, jacket, and vest). One suit comprises multiple pieces.

The UCI rule bans "jerseys designed for road cycling, skinsuits, or one-piece suits" The key word here is "or." "Or" means that any one of those three things are banned. Is it a road jersey? No. Is it a one-piece suit? No. Is it a skin suit? I think it is. It's clearly designed as a system. And seeing as the suit is clearly designed to be skin tight and reduce aerodynamic drag, it's a skin suit. 

And to be clear, my beef isn't with skin suits in downhill, it's with rules. Either enforce the rule or get rid of the rule. It would be lame if the UCI allows the allegedly-not-a-skin-suit skin suit for round one, it has a big impact on results and standings for the series, and then they react and ban it for the rest of the year. The first race is going to have an asterisk on results for the rest of time, which is a little unfair for everybody who worked hard to be there.

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1
sspomer
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5/1/2024 3:46pm

unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

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5/1/2024 4:04pm
sspomer wrote:
unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

Legit turned my laptop upside down

23
earleb
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North Vancouver, BC CA
5/1/2024 4:23pm

For the 2010 Olympics here in Vancouver the Skier cross and Snowboarder cross rules were updated to ban skin suits. The rules mandated two pieces and had a pinch measurement of 8cm at the thigh and 6cm somewhere on the top. UCI could easily clarify the rules with pinch measurements. 

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1
Onawalk
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5/1/2024 4:36pm
earleb wrote:
For the 2010 Olympics here in Vancouver the Skier cross and Snowboarder cross rules were updated to ban skin suits. The rules mandated two pieces and...

For the 2010 Olympics here in Vancouver the Skier cross and Snowboarder cross rules were updated to ban skin suits. The rules mandated two pieces and had a pinch measurement of 8cm at the thigh and 6cm somewhere on the top. UCI could easily clarify the rules with pinch measurements. 

What utter non-sense.

If the order of the day is fastest down the hill wins, then throw everything at it.  I couldnt care less about the looks, I want racing at the highest degree. 

I am also a fan of creative work arounds for rules, its only cheating if you get caught, and its deemed illegal.

Hit Send

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2
5/1/2024 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2024 4:44pm
earleb wrote:
For the 2010 Olympics here in Vancouver the Skier cross and Snowboarder cross rules were updated to ban skin suits. The rules mandated two pieces and...

For the 2010 Olympics here in Vancouver the Skier cross and Snowboarder cross rules were updated to ban skin suits. The rules mandated two pieces and had a pinch measurement of 8cm at the thigh and 6cm somewhere on the top. UCI could easily clarify the rules with pinch measurements. 

Onawalk wrote:
What utter non-sense. If the order of the day is fastest down the hill wins, then throw everything at it.  I couldnt care less about the...

What utter non-sense.

If the order of the day is fastest down the hill wins, then throw everything at it.  I couldnt care less about the looks, I want racing at the highest degree. 

I am also a fan of creative work arounds for rules, its only cheating if you get caught, and its deemed illegal.

Hit Send

Agree, I don’t think there should be clothing rules. Supercross is wearing gear tight af, but more from a mobility aspect of fabric. 

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5/1/2024 5:08pm

The jersey and pants/vest are two different pieces. I don't see how you think it's a one-piece suit.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
I don't think it's a one-piece suit, I think it's a skin suit. The word "suit" doesn't mean one-piece, it means that all the pieces of...

I don't think it's a one-piece suit, I think it's a skin suit. The word "suit" doesn't mean one-piece, it means that all the pieces of a garment form one unit of garment. For instance, a men's formal suit can be a two-piece suit (slacks and jacket) or a three-piece suit (slacks, jacket, and vest). One suit comprises multiple pieces.

The UCI rule bans "jerseys designed for road cycling, skinsuits, or one-piece suits" The key word here is "or." "Or" means that any one of those three things are banned. Is it a road jersey? No. Is it a one-piece suit? No. Is it a skin suit? I think it is. It's clearly designed as a system. And seeing as the suit is clearly designed to be skin tight and reduce aerodynamic drag, it's a skin suit. 

And to be clear, my beef isn't with skin suits in downhill, it's with rules. Either enforce the rule or get rid of the rule. It would be lame if the UCI allows the allegedly-not-a-skin-suit skin suit for round one, it has a big impact on results and standings for the series, and then they react and ban it for the rest of the year. The first race is going to have an asterisk on results for the rest of time, which is a little unfair for everybody who worked hard to be there.

Good points, but look at the regulations:

The jersey shall be a long-sleeved shirt whose sleeves extend down to the rider's wrists. -Check.

Jerseys used in downhill events should be of a type specifically designed and sold for use in BMX Racing or Mountain Bike downhill events. -Check. (prototype)

Jerseys designed for road cycling, skinsuits, or one-piece suits comprising the jersey and the pants/shorts are not permitted for use in downhill events.- Not designed for road cycling or a one piece suit comprising the jersey and pant short.-They don't define what a skin suit is with pinch or fabric regulations, but the dictionary does.

"a piece of clothing for the whole body made of a material that stretches and fits tightly to the body. It is worn especially for sports:" 

 
The jersey must be either close fitting around the waist or must be tucked into the pants before the start to not cause interference. Check.

So it meets the regulations of the UCI as they mentioned in the video. I don't see why they would need to ban these in the future.

 

4
1llumA
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CA
5/1/2024 6:57pm

Remember that the UCI is french (HQ in Aigle, french part of switzerland), so the wording is a little different in french and could explain how Fox think its kit is legal:

''Les maillots de cyclisme sur route, les combinaisons moulantes et les ensembles une-pièce comprenant à la fois le maillot et le pantalon / short ne sont pas autorisés lors des épreuves de descente.''

So the one-piece can't have the jersey and the pants sewed together. Fox would argue that the upper part of the pants overall is similar to a vest as an extra layer and the jersey with the protection included is seperated from the pants that respect the wording of the rule.

1
5/1/2024 7:00pm
sspomer wrote:
unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

As far as I can tell that layout is just a slightly reworked Antidote Darkmatter (HSP, concentric axle pivot, concentric BB rocker link). Looks seriously fast.

9
Outlawed
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Vancouver Island, BC CA
5/1/2024 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2024 9:49pm

I happened to stumble across two new Devinci Chainsaw builds that I havent seen posted anywhere:

XT

My first post on here pertained to a Chainsaw listing that had Deore groupset that seemingly was incorrect but now appears it was just delayed? (display picture is the SX build)
https://www.devinci.com/en/bikes/mountain/chainsaw_deore12s_silver/

DH build gets a new colorway:

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shreda
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Location
GB
5/1/2024 10:21pm
sspomer wrote:
unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

As far as I can tell that layout is just a slightly reworked Antidote Darkmatter (HSP, concentric axle pivot, concentric BB rocker link). Looks seriously fast.

Thought the same thing. Didn't expect them to just copy someone elses homework. Wink

1
Kusa
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CH
5/1/2024 10:29pm
sspomer wrote:
unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

unmasked canyon DH bike from ft bill pits washing area

13
Primoz
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Location
SI
5/1/2024 10:49pm
HexonJuan wrote:
Re: gold stanchions (or any other color for the matter). It likely has something to do with co's putting their own twist on Kashima coatings since...

Re: gold stanchions (or any other color for the matter). It likely has something to do with co's putting their own twist on Kashima coatings since that patent expired some time ago (7 years ago I think). The gold in Kash wasn't necessary but was used to provide a visual cue that something about the product was 'better' than normal hard ano on competitors' products. Separately, from my understanding TiNi coatings aren't ideal as the surface finish becomes too smooth/uniform, resulting in stiction. A small degree of surface porosity is required to hold a very light film of oil to decrease breakaway stiction, and TiNi does away with that. 

Specifically GGB, a manufacturer of Teflon coated bushings (the ones used in eyelets of shocks) specifies a surface roughness of the mating shaft to be Ra 0,2 to 0,4.

In this case it is to transfer the Teflon over to the mating shaft (so that a teflonised surface of the shaft runs on the underlying bronze particles, reducing friction), but this is a bit different to what happens in fork bushings (no transfer happens there). But the point is that there is something as too smooth. 

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5/1/2024 10:52pm

8
Primoz
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SI
5/1/2024 10:55pm
bermed wrote:
Relatedly, I have always thought Loic and Finn's getups look so dope. I hate how most MTB gear is baggy and ill-fitting. Has anyone had luck...

Relatedly, I have always thought Loic and Finn's getups look so dope. I hate how most MTB gear is baggy and ill-fitting. Has anyone had luck finding MTB gear that with a similar fit to Loic and Finn's fits? I'm not talking about skin suits, just properly fitted gear.

TayRob wrote:
Unfortunately, no. Those closest I’ve come is my 5 year old Royal pants. Every other pair of pants I’ve tried is EXTREMELY tight from the ankle...

Unfortunately, no. Those closest I’ve come is my 5 year old Royal pants. Every other pair of pants I’ve tried is EXTREMELY tight from the ankle to the bottom of my knee, then fits like Jncos from the center of the knee up to the waist, ultimately creating a look that appears like I’m wearing a hoodie as pants, that gets caught on my saddle nose. I found some light at the end of the tunnel, shorts wise, when I started wearing women’s labeled shorts. Identical to men’s except they usually had a shorter waist to crotch length, and a shorter over all inseam. Sadly many companies have gone unisex on their shorts now. Apparently most cycling brands sizing ideas are based off of someone 6’ 8”, with massive genitals, thighs of a track sprinter and the calves/feet/ankles of a professional ballerina.

Disagree, running medium to large pants/shorts (33 jeans waist) and I can't find pants that are nearly long enough at 6ft3. Tall people are severely undeserved in outdoor sports. Or at least anyone not fitting the general image of height to width ratio, whatever it is exactly. I'm running Norrona Fjora shorts that are over the knee by design, but I run them above the knee. 

4
Primoz
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SI
5/1/2024 11:05pm

Flight attendant. 

Regarding the Canyon, I think it's a linkage actuated shock, otherwise I don't see a reason for the bolt/pivot in front of the BB... 

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5/2/2024 12:45am

I really thought the new sender was going to be a 6-bar. This design kinda goes against current choices from other brands. I would be interested to know the reasoning behind it. Looks amazing though, very similar to the Darkmatter: DARKMATTER Downhill Bike - Antidote 

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5/2/2024 12:54am
I really thought the new sender was going to be a 6-bar. This design kinda goes against current choices from other brands. I would be interested...

I really thought the new sender was going to be a 6-bar. This design kinda goes against current choices from other brands. I would be interested to know the reasoning behind it. Looks amazing though, very similar to the Darkmatter: DARKMATTER Downhill Bike - Antidote 

Nah pull links are all the rage, you get that sexy S shape leverage curve. 

Quite a few new frames are pull link, most notable the new demo

4
sr_34
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DE
5/2/2024 1:07am

C. Textor with a "Vivid"Coil as well as Bulldog, spotted on the latest MoiMoiTV vlog.

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