MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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10/8/2023 1:10am

Because High pivot isnt the answer.

Well, there are plenty models that went HP, some to extreme levels, more to not so high, but still high. They do perform great! 

2
10/8/2023 1:51am
Democho wrote:

More detailed pics of Finn's bike provided by Spec. 

 

 

 Ok then, now show us Loic's shock. 

Think I'll be waiting longer for that

5
Jakub_G
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10/8/2023 4:20am

Well, there are plenty models that went HP, some to extreme levels, more to not so high, but still high. They do perform great! 

And there are plenty of others, that stayed low pivot and work just as well? Maybe every suspension layout has pros and cons and there isn't one clearly dominating the others? Blasphemy I know.

15
Primoz
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10/8/2023 6:16am Edited Date/Time 10/8/2023 6:19am
Really can’t understand how this thing doesn’t have a rearward travel - really need to see it compress uncovered in order to understand it!  Kinda strange...

Really can’t understand how this thing doesn’t have a rearward travel - really need to see it compress uncovered in order to understand it! 
Kinda strange they decided to use such a design against the high-pivots…

It does have some rearward travel. Very little in the beginning of the travel, but some nevertheless.

What part do you need to see uncovered to understand how it works? The gist of the kinematics was more or less known in the middle of last year, I even made comparison pics of where the IC would be if the lower pivot (the dogbone link connection point on the swingarm) was the actual main pivot. It's a few hundred pages back from here. Then it was fairly quickly established that there's a pull link and a rocker actuating the shock inside the gravy boat piece housing the shock. At the time it was guessing, but it turned out to be correct nevertheless. It's all quite simple really. It's a linkage driven horst link (or what Intense would call a 6-bar) Smile

4
10/8/2023 7:24am
Really can’t understand how this thing doesn’t have a rearward travel - really need to see it compress uncovered in order to understand it!  Kinda strange...

Really can’t understand how this thing doesn’t have a rearward travel - really need to see it compress uncovered in order to understand it! 
Kinda strange they decided to use such a design against the high-pivots…

The axle might go slightly rearward then up and forward. I haven’t mapped it out.

here’s a photo of the bike before paint

IMG 2726.jpeg?VersionId=vQxo teZtDx7xNsbzWmPwwNcz3KN

12
TimBud
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10/8/2023 7:34am
The axle might go slightly rearward then up and forward. I haven’t mapped it out. here’s a photo of the bike before paint

The axle might go slightly rearward then up and forward. I haven’t mapped it out.

here’s a photo of the bike before paint

IMG 2726.jpeg?VersionId=vQxo teZtDx7xNsbzWmPwwNcz3KN

More importantly there’s one behind it with a Zeb 

Enduro?!!

35
chriskief
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10/8/2023 7:39am
TimBud wrote:

More importantly there’s one behind it with a Zeb 

Enduro?!!

Good eye!

Looks like a Zeb, Super Deluxe coil and AXS dropper on it.

7
sspomer
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10/8/2023 9:05am

bike abuse msa video for homework and suspension in action (including finn dragging links toward the end)

Screen Shot 2023-10-08 at 10.03.19 AM

13
10/8/2023 9:16am
TimBud wrote:

More importantly there’s one behind it with a Zeb 

Enduro?!!

chriskief wrote:

Good eye!

Looks like a Zeb, Super Deluxe coil and AXS dropper on it.

There was supposed to be a new Enduro released soon but seeing as they're still sitting on high inventory from the current model, it has apparently been pushed back...

6
eljefe1
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10/8/2023 9:22am
TimBud wrote:

More importantly there’s one behind it with a Zeb 

Enduro?!!

chriskief wrote:

Good eye!

Looks like a Zeb, Super Deluxe coil and AXS dropper on it.

There was supposed to be a new Enduro released soon but seeing as they're still sitting on high inventory from the current model, it has apparently...

There was supposed to be a new Enduro released soon but seeing as they're still sitting on high inventory from the current model, it has apparently been pushed back...

Same with the stumpy. Both have been pushed back several times.

6
Primoz
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10/8/2023 11:28am
Really can’t understand how this thing doesn’t have a rearward travel - really need to see it compress uncovered in order to understand it!  Kinda strange...

Really can’t understand how this thing doesn’t have a rearward travel - really need to see it compress uncovered in order to understand it! 
Kinda strange they decided to use such a design against the high-pivots…

The axle might go slightly rearward then up and forward. I haven’t mapped it out. here’s a photo of the bike before paint

The axle might go slightly rearward then up and forward. I haven’t mapped it out.

here’s a photo of the bike before paint

IMG 2726.jpeg?VersionId=vQxo teZtDx7xNsbzWmPwwNcz3KN

To everybody commenting on Zeb and Enduro, my thoughts exactly.

Anywho, pretty sure it would be anodized, not painted for the aluminium part?

More importantly... The seatstays are black. No aluminium parts on them. Is this an off-the-shelf part? Can it be a Stumpjumper EVO seatstay?

1
2
10/8/2023 1:17pm

So it looks like the new Enduro will use the same design as the current proto demo. Or maybe they are just trying things. Where is the photo from?

veefour
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10/8/2023 2:21pm

Maybe they're just having a bit of fun with us.

10
10/8/2023 4:02pm

Specialized running maxxis on prototypes bikes 

6
1
Noeserd
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10/8/2023 4:47pm
sspomer wrote:
bike abuse msa video for homework and suspension in action (including finn dragging links toward the end)

bike abuse msa video for homework and suspension in action (including finn dragging links toward the end)

Screen Shot 2023-10-08 at 10.03.19 AM

A question looking at the forks flex there

Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,

Why upside down forks aren't widely used since like 2021 where weight became a less of a priority?  we used to have an excuse because there was significant weight differences but just checked and fox 40 is 2850g and a dorado is 2970 both for 29 wheels.

 

2
Robstyle
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10/8/2023 6:02pm
sspomer wrote:
bike abuse msa video for homework and suspension in action (including finn dragging links toward the end)

bike abuse msa video for homework and suspension in action (including finn dragging links toward the end)

Screen Shot 2023-10-08 at 10.03.19 AM

Noeserd wrote:
A question looking at the forks flex there Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more, Why upside down forks aren't widely...

A question looking at the forks flex there

Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,

Why upside down forks aren't widely used since like 2021 where weight became a less of a priority?  we used to have an excuse because there was significant weight differences but just checked and fox 40 is 2850g and a dorado is 2970 both for 29 wheels.

 

My guess as to why they're not as widespread is market share and who's got the thickest wallet come sponsorship time. 

 

7
10/8/2023 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2023 6:29pm

IMG 1531 0IMG 1526
Buttons and lights on Loic’s rig via Wyn TV 

5
2supple
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10/8/2023 6:40pm

Specialized running maxxis on prototypes bikes 

Have to laugh

jsray
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10/8/2023 6:49pm

seems like the “enduro” was conveniently placed for the photo

7
ahleic09
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10/8/2023 7:17pm
jsray wrote:

seems like the “enduro” was conveniently placed for the photo

Steeper STA at least 

3
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sharpy212
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10/8/2023 10:34pm

Who’s to say it is a Enduro bike, could just be another frame built up with a fork they had laying around, the Zeb can go up to 190mm remember, and least it would be a rolling chassis for the likes of the engineers and test riders to ride and test different characteristics. 

4
Primoz
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10/8/2023 11:20pm

And the ATC of the Zeb at 190 mm should pretty close to what the Boxxer at 200 mm would be.

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AgrAde
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10/9/2023 4:58am
Primoz wrote:
To everybody commenting on Zeb and Enduro, my thoughts exactly. Anywho, pretty sure it would be anodized, not painted for the aluminium part? More importantly... The...

To everybody commenting on Zeb and Enduro, my thoughts exactly.

Anywho, pretty sure it would be anodized, not painted for the aluminium part?

More importantly... The seatstays are black. No aluminium parts on them. Is this an off-the-shelf part? Can it be a Stumpjumper EVO seatstay?

They're using the Enduro seat stays. Or at least the same mold, god knows if it's the same carbon layup.

mamath7
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10/9/2023 7:15am
Primoz wrote:

And the ATC of the Zeb at 190 mm should pretty close to what the Boxxer at 200 mm would be.

ZEB 190 is 27,5 only if my memory is still fine

7
Uncle Cliffy
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10/9/2023 7:31am
mamath7 wrote:

ZEB 190 is 27,5 only if my memory is still fine

Better check your memory banks….

7
nskerb
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10/9/2023 7:56am
Noeserd wrote:
A question looking at the forks flex there Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more, Why upside down forks aren't widely...

A question looking at the forks flex there

Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,

Why upside down forks aren't widely used since like 2021 where weight became a less of a priority?  we used to have an excuse because there was significant weight differences but just checked and fox 40 is 2850g and a dorado is 2970 both for 29 wheels.

 

I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or don’t believe that, but a lot of people say that. I guess the majority have agreed that fore/aft flex issues that standard mtb forks have is less of a negative than the torsional flex that a usd fork has. 
 

I thought a beefier hub to fork lug interface would be a fairly easy solution but Mr. Camp (sram dude) said it’s pretty tough to make happen. 

1
WhoKnows
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10/9/2023 8:46am
Democho wrote:

More detailed pics of Finn's bike provided by Spec. 

 

 

 Ok then, now show us Loic's shock. 

Think I'll be waiting longer for that

Yea we won't ever see that. 

1
haen
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10/9/2023 8:53am
Noeserd wrote:
A question looking at the forks flex there Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more, Why upside down forks aren't widely...

A question looking at the forks flex there

Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,

Why upside down forks aren't widely used since like 2021 where weight became a less of a priority?  we used to have an excuse because there was significant weight differences but just checked and fox 40 is 2850g and a dorado is 2970 both for 29 wheels.

 

nskerb wrote:
I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or...

I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or don’t believe that, but a lot of people say that. I guess the majority have agreed that fore/aft flex issues that standard mtb forks have is less of a negative than the torsional flex that a usd fork has. 
 

I thought a beefier hub to fork lug interface would be a fairly easy solution but Mr. Camp (sram dude) said it’s pretty tough to make happen. 

Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their products above all else. 

4
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nskerb
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10/9/2023 9:10am
haen wrote:
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their...

Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their products above all else. 

That is not even remotely true. 
 

look at 2010 sram and 2023 sram. They have drastically changed the status quo regarding drivetrains first by 1x and then setting the benchmark for electric components. Among other things. 

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matmattmatthew
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10/9/2023 9:35am

Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one.  It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time.  If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.  

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