MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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veefour
Posts
341
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
GB
10/3/2023 12:27pm
sspomer wrote:
prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

Watch out Lawlor, the big S are probably on the phone to their lawyers as we speak. Laughing

5
10/3/2023 12:35pm
veefour wrote:
Watch out Lawlor, the big S are probably on the phone to their lawyers as we speak. 

Watch out Lawlor, the big S are probably on the phone to their lawyers as we speak. Laughing

For sure! Black helicopter w/ a shadow 'S' on it incoming. 

Uncle Cliffy
Posts
182
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR US
10/3/2023 12:42pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2023 12:49pm

Finn’s mechanic right now:

IMG 4666

chadkriz
Posts
6
Joined
7/25/2016
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
10/3/2023 12:43pm
sspomer wrote:
prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

Looks like a prototype Mirror saddle as well. That shape doesn't look like either the Power or Romin Evo shapes they currently sell with the 3D printed Mirror construction.

3
Mtbforlife4
Posts
42
Joined
5/5/2013
Location
Grand Junction, CO US
10/3/2023 12:53pm

Someone get Lawlor a security guard

JOEDZA
Posts
2
Joined
6/6/2011
Location
VICTORIA, BC CA
10/3/2023 1:32pm

That's what Bruni clipped, that protruding lower link! ?

3
10/3/2023 1:45pm
sspomer wrote:
prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

Not the big reveal from Specialized marketing I was expecting.

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2
Suns_PSD
Posts
94
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
10/3/2023 1:50pm
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department.  Could it be...

I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department.  Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me

I love my 3 sets of Berd spoked wheels and highly recommend them for many applications. That said, for my big hitting bike I choose to go with standard steel spokes for the rear. 

Berd spokes tend to feel a fair bit looser at times and also seem to get a bit sacked out with use. And I'm no Pro.

Wouldn't have anything but Berds on my Trail/ XC bikes, but for a DH bike, I'd choose otherwise.

 

If I had to build a new AM/ Enduro wheel set not certain what I'd do. Probably Berds though.

3
ERGue
Posts
41
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
10/3/2023 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2023 1:55pm
sspomer wrote:
prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

Not the big reveal from Specialized marketing I was expecting.

Yea I’d say it’s a slightly different approach to Norco’s in depth reveal of their Prototype DH rig. Reflects poorly maybe on the Big S and their whole racing program which seems pretty F1 ish in general, but cool to see nonetheless.

1
7
10/3/2023 3:44pm
JOEDZA wrote:

That's what Bruni clipped, that protruding lower link! ?

He said that he clipped his crank or chainring. That’s why he couldn’t pedal the rest of the track.

dxbike11
Posts
2
Joined
7/25/2013
Location
Pekanbaru ID
10/3/2023 4:39pm

Remind me to the old mongoose boot'r floating bb

1
peecee
Posts
356
Joined
5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
10/3/2023 4:53pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2023 4:54pm
sspomer wrote:
prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

A few things 

I don't think there was that much to hide to be honest we all knew, well most of us knew it was a modern version of some Italian bikes such as DM and Ancillotti from the early to mid 90's

I think maybe its more the shock they have been hiding and not the frame, this seems a bit of a set up with the bike being photographed on the edge of the van and inside the van, its not like anyone was hiding it. 

Lastly if it is super secret and this is a leak its about time Specialized have something not so great to them, they have been killing other businesses in the MTB world for years! 

dm-93 0

258229341 10224732282201709 569365301666821716 n 1

2
10/3/2023 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2023 5:12pm

What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of course it will also rotate in the higher pivot WITHOUT any resistance -> without the shock being compressed.

In other words, the seatstay with the upper link can move freely (to a certain extent), without any compression of the shock.

 

image-20231004025704-1

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6
sspomer
Posts
4182
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
10/3/2023 5:12pm

from our g-out project at world champs. always something in the way but you can see how the upper link moves and the chainstay pulling the lower link.

image-20231003181149-3

10/3/2023 5:24pm
freeriding wrote:
What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of...

What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of course it will also rotate in the higher pivot WITHOUT any resistance -> without the shock being compressed.

In other words, the seatstay with the upper link can move freely (to a certain extent), without any compression of the shock.

 

image-20231004025704-1

There would need to be another pivot above that axle on the seatstay for it to move without the chainstay moving.

 As they have it, the swingarm(chainstay) and all links are connected.

10/3/2023 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2023 5:28pm

Obviously the system works. What i am missing is the question, from an engineering's point of view.

If you take a classic horst link and remove the shock, put the bike on a stand and apply upward force with your hands on the wheel, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower seatstay pivot (in a certain extent), without chainstay moving.

This applies here as i imagine it. I am missing something.

1
Noeserd
Posts
185
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
TR
10/3/2023 5:28pm

Another dual susp frame from Suspensin Smith in FB

 

image-20231004032805-1

 

image-20231004032812-2

 

image-20231004032817-3

 

Quote "

New prototype Dual front suspension system on a Specialized Kenevo comp....this combines a Fox 36 single crown 130mm fork with a Girder type link system and a Fox float DPS air shock giving another 55mm of travel for a total of 185mm travel.

EDIT: In answer to peoples asking Why and what does it do.

This suspension system does a few things completely new and different to any other system made to date.

Because it is a dual hybrid of a telefork and a linkage suspension system working together they give the front wheel two different wheelpaths.....the 130mm telefork wheelpath which in this case is set steeper......and the 55mm link suspension wheelpath which gives the wheel a more backwards wheelpath...approx 45 degrees back.

This gives the suspension the ability to handle a much greater variation of trail obstacles and conditions and it introduces a second level of suspension compliance....what the fork cant soak up is then further complianced by the link suspension.

Then there is the ability to seperately tune the telefork and the link air shock to better seperately fine tune small bump compliance and big hit/bottoming control."

 

4
10/3/2023 5:33pm
freeriding wrote:
What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of...

What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of course it will also rotate in the higher pivot WITHOUT any resistance -> without the shock being compressed.

In other words, the seatstay with the upper link can move freely (to a certain extent), without any compression of the shock.

 

image-20231004025704-1

There would need to be another pivot above that axle on the seatstay for it to move without the chainstay moving.  As they have it, the...

There would need to be another pivot above that axle on the seatstay for it to move without the chainstay moving.

 As they have it, the swingarm(chainstay) and all links are connected.

Don't see the reasoning.

If you put a fully stiff spring in this specialized system (no compression possible), when the wheel is forced to move upward won't it rotate through the lower seatstay pivot, resulting in the movement of the seatstay only?

1
10/3/2023 6:53pm
freeriding wrote:
Don't see the reasoning. If you put a fully stiff spring in this specialized system (no compression possible), when the wheel is forced to move upward...

Don't see the reasoning.

If you put a fully stiff spring in this specialized system (no compression possible), when the wheel is forced to move upward won't it rotate through the lower seatstay pivot, resulting in the movement of the seatstay only?

IMG 3538 1.jpeg?VersionId=5lO 6e22wR7VObsXA
I’ve drawn some lines to create a triangle that illustrates why it doesn’t move if you were to lockout the shock. The pivot up on the seat tube by the yellow line is fixed. The pivot that is the red circle is effectively fixed when the shock is made rigid. Those two points define the blue line. The green line and yellow line are fixed length. As a result their positions are completely defined in space. 

Carraig042
Posts
16
Joined
3/4/2013
Location
Jonesborough, TN US
10/3/2023 7:11pm

I feel like this link is going to take a fair bit of hits?

 

Screenshot 20231003 220935 Chrome 0

earleb
Posts
69
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
10/3/2023 8:39pm

I built a bike with this same pull link back in 2018. The link under the BB takes a beating. Mine acted like a skid plate slider. I will have to take some pics. 

metadave
Posts
916
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
CA
10/3/2023 8:45pm
sspomer wrote:
prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

thor-i-knew-it.gif?VersionId=MlmXPf ozmiSWQM9dSVHN52ESCekMa

4
nskerb
Posts
209
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
10/3/2023 8:53pm

maybe I am out of the loop, but what/who is "Lawlor"? 

2
5
thejake
Posts
62
Joined
6/16/2018
Location
Carnation, WA US
10/3/2023 9:00pm

Maybe I’ve been mountain biking too long but that Specialized is boring AF. Really what were they hiding? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Hype department has a lot of funding, engineering department maybe not as much. 

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9
10/3/2023 9:26pm
thejake wrote:
Maybe I’ve been mountain biking too long but that Specialized is boring AF. Really what were they hiding? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Hype department has a lot...

Maybe I’ve been mountain biking too long but that Specialized is boring AF. Really what were they hiding? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Hype department has a lot of funding, engineering department maybe not as much. 

They are hiding the shock that is connected to a remote on the handle bars.

Primoz
Posts
3034
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
10/3/2023 10:07pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2023 11:13pm
freeriding wrote:
What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of...

What i don't understand in the design is that when an upward force is applied, then the seatstay will rotate in the lower pivot and of course it will also rotate in the higher pivot WITHOUT any resistance -> without the shock being compressed.

In other words, the seatstay with the upper link can move freely (to a certain extent), without any compression of the shock.

 

image-20231004025704-1

Any part of the suspension moving in this case would require the links to be very elastic.

As the bikes sits in this picture it's probably overextended and gives a feeling of the upper two links being on the verge of the unstable point (where the rocker can rotate either up or down). In practice (as has been mentioned by others) this is not the issue. Even with the shock removed all is fine and the axle path is fully defined.

This axle path definition is the reasoning I use to define the number of pivots a bike has - how many links can be removed or how many need to be present for the axle path to still be fully defined. That's how you get a single pivot from most of the Commencals up to V5 series (no need for the seatstays and the rocker for the axle path to be defined), how you get a 4-bar from the current and the 'unveiled' Demo, Sender and the new Intense M1 and how you actually get a 6-bar from the V5 Supreme, Yeti's DH bike, etc.

7
10/3/2023 10:30pm
thejake wrote:
Maybe I’ve been mountain biking too long but that Specialized is boring AF. Really what were they hiding? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Hype department has a lot...

Maybe I’ve been mountain biking too long but that Specialized is boring AF. Really what were they hiding? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Hype department has a lot of funding, engineering department maybe not as much. 

They are hiding the shock that is connected to a remote on the handle bars.

More footage of Loic on the new bike. He also talks about a new cartridge that is sensitive to air pressure change.

 

 

2

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