MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Mwood
Posts
166
Joined
8/19/2009
Location
Bay Area, CA US
6/30/2023 10:18am

Big Backsweep Boi. 12degrees is prime, I've done even 16 and liked it. 

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TayRob
Posts
129
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
CA US
6/30/2023 10:47am
sethimus wrote:
angle of the joint of my hands is relaxed, or not. for me the difference in being able to ride through or needing to take a...

angle of the joint of my hands is relaxed, or not. for me the difference in being able to ride through or needing to take a break for the hands

This 100%

I switch to the PNW Range Bar with a 10° backsweep and it made a big difference over the 8° stock bars.

I'm curious to hear from other folks on this. Currently on renthal bars. I think they have 7° backsweep? I think I like the forward aggressive...

I'm curious to hear from other folks on this. Currently on renthal bars. I think they have 7° backsweep? I think I like the forward aggressive position they put me in. Been very curious about the pnw bars especially for the price!

I ran both the high and mid rise version of the SQ Lab 12 degree bars. I was a die hard 9x5 degree guy before that. I have pretty horrible wrists and they definitely made a noticeable difference in wrist pain and hand fatigue while descending. On the flip side, they were actually more uncomfortable than “normal” bars while climbing for sustained periods of time (15+ minutes) as I felt like it bent my wrists awkwardly in a seated position as my elbows aren’t as spread open when not in attack position. I negated this by moving my hands inward and wrapping my thumbs around my brake lever clamps. I would definitely have continued to run them, but they don’t produce a high enough rise.

jsray
Posts
217
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
6/30/2023 11:03am

File the “backsweep” topic right next to the “should your handlebars be the same height as your seat when it’s fully extended” topic. 

These are not tech rumors. These are subjective, personal preference, opinions based on anecdotal evidence. 
 

Enough. 

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Primoz
Posts
4545
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
6/30/2023 11:05am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2023 11:16am
One Ghost wrote:
The shape of that bar is super unique and allows for more vibration damping in it. Without sounding too product preachy, it was that bar that...

The shape of that bar is super unique and allows for more vibration damping in it. Without sounding too product preachy, it was that bar that made us really rethink bar design and why our new alloy has a very similar profile to take the jar and buzz out of hits.  

sethimus wrote:

no 12° backsweep, no buy

TannerVal wrote:
Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul...

Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul Aston and the NSMB guys preach about it but can’t really see how it would be that game changing. Is it just personal preference or do you believe there’s some performance gains made using more sweep than standard.

I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm rise Turbine R handlebar (5/8 deg sweep) for an aliexpress 35 mm stem and a 55 mm rise, 8/12 deg sweep bar (and moved a 20 mm spacer from above to under the stem). While the riding has improved (due to the bars being higher), because of the much reduced effective reach I'm riding much more off the back of the bike, which I feel is a negative. And I fear I'm more of a praying mantis than before, I'm worried a higher backsweep angles your elbows inwards.

I haven't done back to back testing yet, I'm saving it for a new bike, but this backswept bar needs a test with a 50 mm stem and/or I need to go back to a less swept bar.

Maybe move this debate to the bar height topic and rename said topic to 'general cockpit discussion'?

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2
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
6/30/2023 11:17am

This 100%

I switch to the PNW Range Bar with a 10° backsweep and it made a big difference over the 8° stock bars.

I'm curious to hear from other folks on this. Currently on renthal bars. I think they have 7° backsweep? I think I like the forward aggressive...

I'm curious to hear from other folks on this. Currently on renthal bars. I think they have 7° backsweep? I think I like the forward aggressive position they put me in. Been very curious about the pnw bars especially for the price!

TayRob wrote:
I ran both the high and mid rise version of the SQ Lab 12 degree bars. I was a die hard 9x5 degree guy before that...

I ran both the high and mid rise version of the SQ Lab 12 degree bars. I was a die hard 9x5 degree guy before that. I have pretty horrible wrists and they definitely made a noticeable difference in wrist pain and hand fatigue while descending. On the flip side, they were actually more uncomfortable than “normal” bars while climbing for sustained periods of time (15+ minutes) as I felt like it bent my wrists awkwardly in a seated position as my elbows aren’t as spread open when not in attack position. I negated this by moving my hands inward and wrapping my thumbs around my brake lever clamps. I would definitely have continued to run them, but they don’t produce a high enough rise.

Can we move this discussion along to another thread please.....

9
6/30/2023 11:18am

Yep, you can see the additional pivot placements above and below the main pivot with the idler in the first photo. I'm guessing this CF1 implementation (no idler) is meant to provide similar benefits to the original CBF design with the center of curvature at the top of the chainring, but with lower anti-rise.

1
veefour
Posts
852
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
6/30/2023 11:35am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2023 11:37am
sethimus wrote:

no 12° backsweep, no buy

TannerVal wrote:
Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul...

Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul Aston and the NSMB guys preach about it but can’t really see how it would be that game changing. Is it just personal preference or do you believe there’s some performance gains made using more sweep than standard.

Primoz wrote:
I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm...

I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm rise Turbine R handlebar (5/8 deg sweep) for an aliexpress 35 mm stem and a 55 mm rise, 8/12 deg sweep bar (and moved a 20 mm spacer from above to under the stem). While the riding has improved (due to the bars being higher), because of the much reduced effective reach I'm riding much more off the back of the bike, which I feel is a negative. And I fear I'm more of a praying mantis than before, I'm worried a higher backsweep angles your elbows inwards.

I haven't done back to back testing yet, I'm saving it for a new bike, but this backswept bar needs a test with a 50 mm stem and/or I need to go back to a less swept bar.

Maybe move this debate to the bar height topic and rename said topic to 'general cockpit discussion'?

Done. Although the title has been censored, Vital don't seem to like the word 'cockpit'.Laughing

Now back to tech rumours, has anyone heard anything about GT strengthening their DH frames? Asking on behalf of Roger Viera.

12
TannerVal
Posts
128
Joined
2/6/2016
Location
Hampton, NH US
6/30/2023 11:43am
TannerVal wrote:
Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul...

Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul Aston and the NSMB guys preach about it but can’t really see how it would be that game changing. Is it just personal preference or do you believe there’s some performance gains made using more sweep than standard.

Primoz wrote:
I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm...

I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm rise Turbine R handlebar (5/8 deg sweep) for an aliexpress 35 mm stem and a 55 mm rise, 8/12 deg sweep bar (and moved a 20 mm spacer from above to under the stem). While the riding has improved (due to the bars being higher), because of the much reduced effective reach I'm riding much more off the back of the bike, which I feel is a negative. And I fear I'm more of a praying mantis than before, I'm worried a higher backsweep angles your elbows inwards.

I haven't done back to back testing yet, I'm saving it for a new bike, but this backswept bar needs a test with a 50 mm stem and/or I need to go back to a less swept bar.

Maybe move this debate to the bar height topic and rename said topic to 'general cockpit discussion'?

veefour wrote:
Done. Although the title has been censored, Vital don't seem to like the word 'cockpit'. Now back to tech rumours, has anyone heard anything about GT...

Done. Although the title has been censored, Vital don't seem to like the word 'cockpit'.Laughing

Now back to tech rumours, has anyone heard anything about GT strengthening their DH frames? Asking on behalf of Roger Viera.

I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding the bike im not really sure what you’re referring to.

1
2
chriskief
Posts
729
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
6/30/2023 11:49am
TannerVal wrote:
I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding...

I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding the bike im not really sure what you’re referring to.

Ummm… check the other site.

7
TannerVal
Posts
128
Joined
2/6/2016
Location
Hampton, NH US
6/30/2023 11:52am
TannerVal wrote:
I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding...

I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding the bike im not really sure what you’re referring to.

chriskief wrote:

Ummm… check the other site.

Woof…Spoke too soon

hope Roger’s alright after that. Bummed that happened to him, seems like a great dude trying his butt off to make it to the top.

6
metadave
Posts
1244
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
6/30/2023 10:44pm

Didn't someone snap a Gambler a week or two ago?

5
krabo83
Posts
718
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
7/1/2023 12:21am
metadave wrote:

Didn't someone snap a Gambler a week or two ago?

yeah, but that gambler made contact with a tree, different scenario than snaping a frame while riding it like it's intended.

1
TimBud
Posts
531
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/1/2023 2:15am

Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+
 

 

AF117D8E-8413-4804-B9D2-CB8589C4BFCF

 

3
7/1/2023 2:48am
TimBud wrote:
Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+      

Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+
 

 

AF117D8E-8413-4804-B9D2-CB8589C4BFCF

 

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

2
TimBud
Posts
531
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/1/2023 4:39am

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

Yeah. The Radical+ Smile

2
metadave
Posts
1244
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
7/1/2023 6:09am
metadave wrote:

Didn't someone snap a Gambler a week or two ago?

krabo83 wrote:

yeah, but that gambler made contact with a tree, different scenario than snaping a frame while riding it like it's intended.

Fair point

2
sspomer
Posts
6066
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
7/1/2023 8:43am

val di sole bike abuse video for potential sleuthing

 

 

29
Posts
231
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
7/1/2023 8:57am

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

TimBud wrote:
Yeah. The Radical+ 

Yeah. The Radical+ Smile

probably going to have 900mm reach and 1200mm chainstays 

9
TimBud
Posts
531
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/1/2023 9:04am

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

TimBud wrote:
Yeah. The Radical+ 

Yeah. The Radical+ Smile

29 wrote:

probably going to have 900mm reach and 1200mm chainstays 

If it works for him thats his choice… pretty sure he’s a better rider than the vast majority of us in here.

Likewise I know what size of bike I like and I’m not going to ram it down everyones throat and get upset like some folk in here do. 
 

3
Big Bird
Posts
2285
Joined
2/1/2011
Location
Oceano, CA US
7/1/2023 11:12am
TimBud wrote:
Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+      

Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+
 

 

AF117D8E-8413-4804-B9D2-CB8589C4BFCF

 

Isn't this what people here have speculated is under the cover on the new Spec?

1
Primoz
Posts
4545
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/1/2023 11:28am

No. 

4
7/1/2023 1:13pm

The new Demo will most likely be a regular horst link with an additional link under the BB to compress the shock, that looks like a 2 generations old Commencal after growth hormone therapy (nothing wrong with that, I bet it goes fast)

2
Fred_Pop
Posts
221
Joined
11/26/2017
Location
FR
7/1/2023 1:39pm
The new Demo will most likely be a regular horst link with an additional link under the BB to compress the shock, that looks like a...

The new Demo will most likely be a regular horst link with an additional link under the BB to compress the shock, that looks like a 2 generations old Commencal after growth hormone therapy (nothing wrong with that, I bet it goes fast)

Seeing as Max Commencal created Sunn that makes total sense.

1
7/1/2023 11:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2023 11:46pm

Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly stuff, that’s why they covered it up. 
Something that’s been bugging me for some time now: why does the Cube HP bike need a floating brake arm? Being a horst-link and especially a highish-pivot one, aren’t the brake forces almost completely separated from the suspension and therefore there’s no need for this?  

AgrAde
Posts
196
Joined
5/21/2015
Location
AL US
7/2/2023 12:07am

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

1
Primoz
Posts
4545
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/2/2023 12:22am

The brake link allows you to tune the antirise if done properly. 

1
7/2/2023 1:13am

Is that much different compared with a dirt bike rear brake mount? I guess this would make for good alignment granted frames are aligned in the first place 

1
7/2/2023 1:45am Edited Date/Time 7/2/2023 1:46am
Is that much different compared with a dirt bike rear brake mount? I guess this would make for good alignment granted frames are aligned in the...

Is that much different compared with a dirt bike rear brake mount? I guess this would make for good alignment granted frames are aligned in the first place 

"granted frames are aligned in the first place" - yeah good luck with that, there is only a select few brands that have spot on alignment. Torque patterns are ment to help with such things but nobody pays any attention to that. 

one example of poor alignment at its poorest was trek with the current gen slash, between twisted rocker pivots, poor boring/molding(aligning) of the lower shock holes combined with the extremely poor lower shock bearings(alignment and depth) - the bearings used to just seize almost instantly -  not helped at all by the double trunnion shock cause horrid creaking and then the weld down the side of the downtube used to crack because of the stress, 
The non trunnion versions,(slash 7) never really seen the issues, and they have now moved back to a tradition std eyelet for both.
(both the carbon and alloy versions had the issue but the carbon didnt crack but randomly broke the rocker by the main bolt/nut on the non drive side)

Dont even get me started on the oval holes on transition frames lol

2
dolface
Posts
1670
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
7/2/2023 7:16am
Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly...

Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly stuff, that’s why they covered it up. 
Something that’s been bugging me for some time now: why does the Cube HP bike need a floating brake arm? Being a horst-link and especially a highish-pivot one, aren’t the brake forces almost completely separated from the suspension and therefore there’s no need for this?  

I was wondering if it was a Danny thing more than a Cube thing as he also ran one on the Saracen for a while...

2
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