MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Prototype
TheSuspensionLabNZ 5/15/2022 8:46pm
5/15/2022 8:46pm
hitar_potar wrote:
Having it inside keeps it away from dirt, gnar, rain, snow and all the other stuff the world can throw at it and make it need...
Having it inside keeps it away from dirt, gnar, rain, snow and all the other stuff the world can throw at it and make it need service sooner. Smile
I guess you've never serviced a dropper post?? You would be floored at the amount of mud and water that gets inside a frame. Unless it is completely moulded inside the carbon layup itself, nothing is completely safe from the outside.

Putting a shock inside the frame is pretty much terrible in every way I can think of
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jasperg21 5/16/2022 6:04am
5/16/2022 6:04am
Does anyone know if there is a new forbidden druid on the way? That bike was released in 2019 and the geo is quite outdated.
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thomas.gehrig 5/16/2022 6:16am
5/16/2022 6:16am
jasperg21 wrote:
Does anyone know if there is a new forbidden druid on the way? That bike was released in 2019 and the geo is quite outdated.
The bike is anything but outdated, it's more of an all-mountain bike than a big enduro bike. There's the dreadnought if you want something really more aggressive
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jasperg21 5/16/2022 6:26am
5/16/2022 6:26am
65.6 degree head angle, 75.6 degree seat tube angle, 1225mm wheelbase, 465mm reach in a size large and a 450mm seat-tube length. That seems outdated to me
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nskerb
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nskerb 5/16/2022 6:50am
5/16/2022 6:50am
TheShortestCharles wrote:
Heard from a friend of a friend that the next Sight will have a high-pivot option. Taking it with a grain of salt of course, but...
Heard from a friend of a friend that the next Sight will have a high-pivot option. Taking it with a grain of salt of course, but interesting if true.
If there's two sight frames and one has the bro pivot option that will be cool.
If the new sight is high pivot only that will suck.
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Erwan_Ghesquiere 5/16/2022 8:31am
5/16/2022 8:31am
jason.west.750 wrote:
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes...
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes they look wonky and stupid. Is it different just to be different? Its as bad as running cables through the headset..
While I agree with you, we are probably not the target that Scott is aiming for. Scott is the only bike brand whose customer consider that having 2 extra levers on their handlebar to lock out a big rig on the fly is a great thing. So having cables hidden away and "sleek" design is probably up there too in their requests. Some of us live and die by "form over function", some by the opposite. And if you ride your bike 5 times a year and send it to the shop to re-tighten a spoke, why would you care about serviceability ?
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bermslapper69 5/16/2022 8:41am
5/16/2022 8:41am Edited Date/Time 5/16/2022 9:21am
jasperg21 wrote:
65.6 degree head angle, 75.6 degree seat tube angle, 1225mm wheelbase, 465mm reach in a size large and a 450mm seat-tube length. That seems outdated to...
65.6 degree head angle, 75.6 degree seat tube angle, 1225mm wheelbase, 465mm reach in a size large and a 450mm seat-tube length. That seems outdated to me
After recently upgrading from an “outdated” 150mm bike (64.5° HA, 1226 wb, 435 chainstays, 465 reach, high-ish standover and king seat tube) to a current high pivot bike (63° HA, 1297 WB, 445 cs, 485 reach, lower seat height at full drop) I can say two things with great certainty: 1) the newer crop of enduro bikes high pivot or not, are absolute missiles when gravity is behind them and they are perfect on the kind of terrain where you’re only concerned about losing speed, not gaining it 2) these bikes are kinda boring to ride on anything besides the terrain I just mentioned, the geometry of yesteryear is actually a lot more fun to ride on 90% of trails (unless you live in BC or something) and is probably going to be a lot more manageable under 90% of riders.
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Primoz
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Primoz 5/16/2022 8:43am
5/16/2022 8:43am Edited Date/Time 5/16/2022 8:44am
jason.west.750 wrote:
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes...
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes they look wonky and stupid. Is it different just to be different? Its as bad as running cables through the headset..
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
While I agree with you, we are probably not the target that Scott is aiming for. Scott is the only bike brand whose customer consider that...
While I agree with you, we are probably not the target that Scott is aiming for. Scott is the only bike brand whose customer consider that having 2 extra levers on their handlebar to lock out a big rig on the fly is a great thing. So having cables hidden away and "sleek" design is probably up there too in their requests. Some of us live and die by "form over function", some by the opposite. And if you ride your bike 5 times a year and send it to the shop to re-tighten a spoke, why would you care about serviceability ?
Does the hypothetical "you" care about the cost of said servicing?
Walrus_Rider 5/16/2022 9:42am
5/16/2022 9:42am
What ever happened to the new Shimano Saint PD-M829 flat pedals? I thought they'd be released long ago but no word of them anywhere.
BlazersDad89
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BlazersDad89 5/16/2022 9:43am
5/16/2022 9:43am Edited Date/Time 5/16/2022 9:50am
sspomer wrote:
one more mick bike post [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/14/12499/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_05_14_at_9.11.44_AM.jpg[/img]
one more mick bike post

That's totally a Di2 wire right above the chainguide.
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dolface 5/16/2022 12:37pm
5/16/2022 12:37pm
Walrus_Rider wrote:
What ever happened to the new Shimano Saint PD-M829 flat pedals? I thought they'd be released long ago but no word of them anywhere.
They are listed on quite a few retail sites but out of stock everywhere. No idea if there are any actually under riders feet...
rizleybear 5/16/2022 2:24pm
5/16/2022 2:24pm
3 years out of stock apparently....

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bermslapper69 5/16/2022 3:47pm
5/16/2022 3:47pm
rizleybear wrote:
3 years out of stock apparently.... [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/16/12501/s1200_yo.jpg[/img]
3 years out of stock apparently....

This has been: a shimano moment. Remember even before Covid when they tried to launch 12 speed and it took like 2 years longer than expected
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DubC
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DubC 5/16/2022 4:20pm
5/16/2022 4:20pm
rizleybear wrote:
3 years out of stock apparently.... [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/16/12501/s1200_yo.jpg[/img]
3 years out of stock apparently....

bermslapper69 wrote:
This has been: a shimano moment. Remember even before Covid when they tried to launch 12 speed and it took like 2 years longer than expected
DeeeNile is actually a river in Japan. It's fed by the tears from shimano mtb ft chainring & der engineers and product managers who to this day refuse to accept that 2x/3x is dead.
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TimBud
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TimBud 5/16/2022 11:33pm
5/16/2022 11:33pm
bermslapper69 wrote:
This has been: a shimano moment. Remember even before Covid when they tried to launch 12 speed and it took like 2 years longer than expected
Yeah, that was the fire that took out their high end factory (XTR/Dura-Ace)
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Onawalk 5/17/2022 9:47am
5/17/2022 9:47am
Primoz wrote:
Option? How does that work?
Similar to the Aurum, which had a high pivot, and a regular Horst link setup.
Norco has done it before, the current Sight is pretty spot on geo wise, so it makes sense to leave that bike, and build a high pivot bike similar to the Druid.

The owner of Forbiden used to be a Norco designer, so it wouldn’t be surprising to see a Sight HP, something lighter and more versatile than the Range…
Primoz
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Primoz 5/17/2022 12:40pm
5/17/2022 12:40pm
Primoz wrote:
Option? How does that work?
Onawalk wrote:
Similar to the Aurum, which had a high pivot, and a regular Horst link setup. Norco has done it before, the current Sight is pretty spot...
Similar to the Aurum, which had a high pivot, and a regular Horst link setup.
Norco has done it before, the current Sight is pretty spot on geo wise, so it makes sense to leave that bike, and build a high pivot bike similar to the Druid.

The owner of Forbiden used to be a Norco designer, so it wouldn’t be surprising to see a Sight HP, something lighter and more versatile than the Range…
The catch is the HP Aurum was an all new design, carbon only, where the non-HP Aurum was left in the lineup as the cheaper, Al version. So same for the SIght then?

And another issue with all of that is the fact that a lot of people say a HP barely makes sense for enduro racing, let alone for a trail bike. It's a risky move to go for a HP bike in the trail segment for an established brand if you ask me...
noideamtber 5/17/2022 1:14pm
5/17/2022 1:14pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2022 1:31pm
Be awfully risky for Norco to go HP on the sight, IMO after owning an alloy one - Needs increased stack height and a lower suspension ratio. 603 stack on a large is terrible - the stack/reach ratio is 1.24 which is very low and needs to be closer to 1.3.

Otherwise its a great bike, heavy but solid. If its stack was closer to the Marin Alpine it would be spot on(marin is a similar geo bike overal at 632 stack.) they both ride very similar including both weighing pretty much the same, the Marin rides lighter and is probably due to the seriously low suspension ratio of 2.3.
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NoahColorado 5/17/2022 2:20pm
5/17/2022 2:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2022 12:27pm
jason.west.750 wrote:
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes...
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes they look wonky and stupid. Is it different just to be different? Its as bad as running cables through the headset..
hitar_potar wrote:
Having it inside keeps it away from dirt, gnar, rain, snow and all the other stuff the world can throw at it and make it need...
Having it inside keeps it away from dirt, gnar, rain, snow and all the other stuff the world can throw at it and make it need service sooner. Smile
I wonder if having a shock housed inside of a frame reduces its ability to shed heat.
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bermslapper69 5/17/2022 3:00pm
5/17/2022 3:00pm
jason.west.750 wrote:
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes...
I don't get the point and appeal of putting a shock in a tube. Adjustments are more difficult, service, installation/removal is more difficult. To my eyes they look wonky and stupid. Is it different just to be different? Its as bad as running cables through the headset..
hitar_potar wrote:
Having it inside keeps it away from dirt, gnar, rain, snow and all the other stuff the world can throw at it and make it need...
Having it inside keeps it away from dirt, gnar, rain, snow and all the other stuff the world can throw at it and make it need service sooner. Smile
NoahColorado wrote:
I wonder if having a shock housed inside of a frame reduces its ability to shed heat.
It wouldn’t make it any colder
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1
TEAMROBOT
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TEAMROBOT 5/17/2022 3:15pm
5/17/2022 3:15pm
All I know is the pizza stays warmer longer if you don't leave the box open like an animal
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pdon
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pdon 5/17/2022 5:41pm
5/17/2022 5:41pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
All I know is the pizza stays warmer longer if you don't leave the box open like an animal
Some might say pizza is better at room temperature when all of the grease kind of congeals and the pizza components solidify a little bit
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metadave
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metadave 5/17/2022 8:27pm
5/17/2022 8:27pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
All I know is the pizza stays warmer longer if you don't leave the box open like an animal
pdon wrote:
Some might say pizza is better at room temperature when all of the grease kind of congeals and the pizza components solidify a little bit
I can get down with that. But I don't think shocks are better hot.
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nskerb
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nskerb 5/17/2022 9:06pm
5/17/2022 9:06pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
All I know is the pizza stays warmer longer if you don't leave the box open like an animal
pdon wrote:
Some might say pizza is better at room temperature when all of the grease kind of congeals and the pizza components solidify a little bit
metadave wrote:
I can get down with that. But I don't think shocks are better hot.
They are if you run Delo400 for shock fluid.
Primoz
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Primoz 5/17/2022 9:15pm
5/17/2022 9:15pm
They are in the winter when it's negative 10 Celsius out there. I remember my fork giving me 2/3 of the travel in those conditions...
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Fred_Pop
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Fred_Pop 5/18/2022 1:33am
5/18/2022 1:33am
Primoz wrote:
They are in the winter when it's negative 10 Celsius out there. I remember my fork giving me 2/3 of the travel in those conditions...
That's mainly due to the lack of oil in modern forks rather than anything else.
Primoz
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Primoz 5/18/2022 1:38am
5/18/2022 1:38am
The oil having a much higher viscosity at lower temperatures is actually the problem as it doesn't flow around as well. Less oil is better in this case if anything.
baronKanon 5/18/2022 1:48am
5/18/2022 1:48am
Primoz wrote:
The oil having a much higher viscosity at lower temperatures is actually the problem as it doesn't flow around as well. Less oil is better in...
The oil having a much higher viscosity at lower temperatures is actually the problem as it doesn't flow around as well. Less oil is better in this case if anything.
Usually it is the bath oil rather than suspension fluid that is the bigger problem. Use a thinner oil during winter (0W30 or 0W40), and SuperGliss 100k during summer. Shocks have more damping and higher forces, and do not act as a structural element with glide bushings, so they are not that temperature sensitive as forks i cold weather. Open up some clicks in the LS circuits and good to go Smile

Back to rumors, please. Internal shocks look very nice, and suck for all other purposes. Twinlock is s band aid for lazy suspension engineers, and I want the new Formula Selva Dual crown to be relased
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Sir HC
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Sir HC 5/18/2022 2:49am
5/18/2022 2:49am
Guessing Rockshox 2023
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FullSend
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FullSend 5/18/2022 4:26am
5/18/2022 4:26am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2022 6:34am
New Trek Fuel EX for 2023:

Full-suspension all-mountain bike
29" wheels
140mm rear
150mm front (160mm fork compatible)
65° HTA
480mm reach in size L
76° effective STA
6 different frame sizes
MinoLink flip-chip (+/- 0.5° adjustment)
Knock block 2.0 (optional)
55mm chainline
Alloy and carbon frame options
Thru Shaft shock optional
No more RE:aktiv valving
Downtube storage

I could only get German prices and pricing structure apparently isn't final:
Alloy options starting at around 2600€
Carbon options starting at around 4500€

No surprises here. Basically exactly what you'd expect from an updated Fuel EX in 2022.

EDIT: Bike is to launch in Fall of 2022
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