Shimano has released more details about the new EP810 motor system, and I compiled everything into another forum here (I know, another forum, but its mostly...
That's mostly pretty good but the battery just kills it. 720wh @ 4.1kg is just not cutting it in 2026/27 I'm afraid. Look at what Gobao will be able to offer for comparison.
Seems as though a lot of brands will be going with their own proprietary battery, so I don't think the OE battery is an issue really. Otherwise I think it's probably exactly what most people need from a motor, even if it's not what most people want.
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put in whatever battery met their budget/design that were either too small, too heavy, or too failure prone. Then if there was a failure with the battery, you basically had to hope that the bike company bought extras because Shimano sure as hell wasn't going to help you get a 3rd party battery.
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put...
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put in whatever battery met their budget/design that were either too small, too heavy, or too failure prone. Then if there was a failure with the battery, you basically had to hope that the bike company bought extras because Shimano sure as hell wasn't going to help you get a 3rd party battery.
YT comes to mind with that. Used market went bonkers there for a bit, riders buy used bikes just for the battery and <edit > wiring </edit > stuff.
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put...
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put in whatever battery met their budget/design that were either too small, too heavy, or too failure prone. Then if there was a failure with the battery, you basically had to hope that the bike company bought extras because Shimano sure as hell wasn't going to help you get a 3rd party battery.
Good luck to whoever buys a non-Shimano battery. Do we really trust the bike companies to put in something that will last, be supported with replacement parts and not catch fire?
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put...
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put in whatever battery met their budget/design that were either too small, too heavy, or too failure prone. Then if there was a failure with the battery, you basically had to hope that the bike company bought extras because Shimano sure as hell wasn't going to help you get a 3rd party battery.
Good luck to whoever buys a non-Shimano battery. Do we really trust the bike companies to put in something that will last, be supported with replacement...
Good luck to whoever buys a non-Shimano battery. Do we really trust the bike companies to put in something that will last, be supported with replacement parts and not catch fire?
Yeah, not really. If a proper battery maker is engineering it for the bike company, and the battery has the proper certifications, then I'm less concerned about the quality, but the warranty thing is really fully on the bike company's shoulders, and at least a subset of them don't seem to be taking proper responsibility for it.
There is the slow replacement issue, and then the lack of long term support issue. On the long term side: Santa Cruz is known for their awesome frame warranty. Lifetime bearing replacements. Etc...I know people who broke a SC front or rear triangle on bikes that were near 10yrs old, discontinued, and due to the lack of spare parts, SC gave them the newest current equivalent. Now, SC ebike parts only have a 2yr warranty, from my understanding. I am not sure if there is any obligation for them to make parts available beyond the warranty period, but if not, you could have a nearly new SC that is basically unusable due to a bad battery pack. Unlike with a frame failure, they will presumably not be giving you a new Bosch Bullit to replace the unusable Shimano Bullit, in this scenario, so it basically removes the incentive to buy a "premium" brand, because it shares the same weakest link as a budget brand like YT.
All of that assumes that SC doesn't have a warehouse of Darfon batteries and Fazua motors, to keep people on previous generation bikes going, and isn't handing out free warranty Bosch bikes. If they do, then props to them.
Cotic Bikes mentioned in the PB comments that Shimano has new batteries with 205Wh/kg density coming in February. Seems like a PR blunder not to get that out there at launch.
Cotic Bikes mentioned in the PB comments that Shimano has new batteries with 205Wh/kg density coming in February. Seems like a PR blunder not to get...
Cotic Bikes mentioned in the PB comments that Shimano has new batteries with 205Wh/kg density coming in February. Seems like a PR blunder not to get that out there at launch.
Unless it’s embargoed and they weren’t allowed to mention it…
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put...
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put in whatever battery met their budget/design that were either too small, too heavy, or too failure prone. Then if there was a failure with the battery, you basically had to hope that the bike company bought extras because Shimano sure as hell wasn't going to help you get a 3rd party battery.
YT comes to mind with that. Used market went bonkers there for a bit, riders buy used bikes just for the battery and <edit > wiring...
YT comes to mind with that. Used market went bonkers there for a bit, riders buy used bikes just for the battery and <edit > wiring </edit > stuff.
The open system also allowed for innovative/light bikes like the Orbea Rise and others which was a success. I never heard to there being issues for the owners replacing batteries. But that's a general thing with ebikes: we always talk about the latest and greatest and the evolution is fast. So nobody really cares if 5 to 10 year old bikes still can get spare parts.
Cotic Bikes mentioned in the PB comments that Shimano has new batteries with 205Wh/kg density coming in February. Seems like a PR blunder not to get...
Cotic Bikes mentioned in the PB comments that Shimano has new batteries with 205Wh/kg density coming in February. Seems like a PR blunder not to get that out there at launch.
Typical shimano communication. They still think everyone is waiting on them
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
Maxon Motors have some Brands using their system that sounds pretty much like what you are looking for.
Revel released more information about their Avinox powered ReRun V2 this morning... sort of? After having a month long countdown, they released pricing, build kits, and more confusing reservation details while leaving a blurred out frame image. Hoping for more details later today. I love my Ritual and reserved one of these, but the way they're handling this hasn't got me too fired up.
Would be nice to hear your thougts and feedback on a potential bike swap / upgrade plan. I don't need the new bike but..
My current setup & riding I'm riding a 2020 Trek Rail 5 with about 6,000 km on the clock. Pretty much everything (on its 3rd motor) except the frame, stem, and handlebar has been upgraded or replaced over time as parts wore out. It currently has EXT E-Storia / Cane Creek Helm / FR560 wheels / Dominion A4 brakes but still runs the old-school gameboy-style Bosch Purion display with zero tuning or integration features. I mostly ride in Tour+ mode, and the 625Wh battery gives me plenty of range—I’m usually completely spent by the time it hits 0%, either due to long ride time or pushing at fast pace. Where I live and ride, we don't have massive elevation change or long vertical climbs; it's mostly rolling, very technical singletrack (roots, rocks, and more roots).
The upgrade "hack" I've been following the new DJI Avinox bikes coming out. Most high-end builds sit close to €10k, but the base Amflow PR Carbon looks like a very competitive entry point at €4,669. I’d rather put the "saved" money toward bike trips.
My idea would be to run the same approach I used on my Trek: buy the base carbon Amflow PR, sell off the stock take-off parts, and swap in my preferred high-end gear (EXT/Öhlins suspension and some decent brakes). Maybe the stock wheels should be evaluated to see if they're okay, but all other frame/motor parts seem good enough.
Three questions:
What do you think about the upgrade hack for the cheapest model?
Would the more powerful, lighter bike with a bigger battery be a good enabler to ride faster and cover more ground in the same amount of time?
How do you see the market changing with these Avinox-powered bikes over the next 6 months? Right now, it feels like supply is tight and there's too little inventory available for customers wanting to buy.
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
Revel released more information about their Avinox powered ReRun V2 this morning... sort of? After having a month long countdown, they released pricing, build kits, and...
Revel released more information about their Avinox powered ReRun V2 this morning... sort of? After having a month long countdown, they released pricing, build kits, and more confusing reservation details while leaving a blurred out frame image. Hoping for more details later today. I love my Ritual and reserved one of these, but the way they're handling this hasn't got me too fired up.
I like most everything Revel does but this countdown tease thing is dumb, release the geometry FFS. It's crazy to me that people are willing to preorder a bike without a geo chart.
I like most everything Revel does but this countdown tease thing is dumb, release the geometry FFS. It's crazy to me that people are willing to...
I like most everything Revel does but this countdown tease thing is dumb, release the geometry FFS. It's crazy to me that people are willing to preorder a bike without a geo chart.
I just saw a post that the first production run has already sold out. So, what they are doing must be working well.
Would be nice to hear your thougts and feedback on a potential bike swap / upgrade plan. I don't need the new bike but..My current...
Would be nice to hear your thougts and feedback on a potential bike swap / upgrade plan. I don't need the new bike but..
My current setup & riding I'm riding a 2020 Trek Rail 5 with about 6,000 km on the clock. Pretty much everything (on its 3rd motor) except the frame, stem, and handlebar has been upgraded or replaced over time as parts wore out. It currently has EXT E-Storia / Cane Creek Helm / FR560 wheels / Dominion A4 brakes but still runs the old-school gameboy-style Bosch Purion display with zero tuning or integration features. I mostly ride in Tour+ mode, and the 625Wh battery gives me plenty of range—I’m usually completely spent by the time it hits 0%, either due to long ride time or pushing at fast pace. Where I live and ride, we don't have massive elevation change or long vertical climbs; it's mostly rolling, very technical singletrack (roots, rocks, and more roots).
The upgrade "hack" I've been following the new DJI Avinox bikes coming out. Most high-end builds sit close to €10k, but the base Amflow PR Carbon looks like a very competitive entry point at €4,669. I’d rather put the "saved" money toward bike trips.
My idea would be to run the same approach I used on my Trek: buy the base carbon Amflow PR, sell off the stock take-off parts, and swap in my preferred high-end gear (EXT/Öhlins suspension and some decent brakes). Maybe the stock wheels should be evaluated to see if they're okay, but all other frame/motor parts seem good enough.
Three questions:
What do you think about the upgrade hack for the cheapest model?
Would the more powerful, lighter bike with a bigger battery be a good enabler to ride faster and cover more ground in the same amount of time?
How do you see the market changing with these Avinox-powered bikes over the next 6 months? Right now, it feels like supply is tight and there's too little inventory available for customers wanting to buy.
i‘d wait for the 17th, they release something new then
Shimano has released more details about the new EP810 motor system, and I compiled everything into another forum here (I know, another forum, but its mostly for long-term discussion) - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/shimano-ep810-motor-details-discussion-debate
Here is are key bulelt points -
New Motor Features
Electronics & Connectivity
That's mostly pretty good but the battery just kills it. 720wh @ 4.1kg is just not cutting it in 2026/27 I'm afraid. Look at what Gobao will be able to offer for comparison.
https://gobao-ebike.com/batteries-new/
Seems as though a lot of brands will be going with their own proprietary battery, so I don't think the OE battery is an issue really. Otherwise I think it's probably exactly what most people need from a motor, even if it's not what most people want.
Wasn't one of the issues with the original EP8 system the fact that it was open standard? Rather than put in good batteries, brands would put in whatever battery met their budget/design that were either too small, too heavy, or too failure prone. Then if there was a failure with the battery, you basically had to hope that the bike company bought extras because Shimano sure as hell wasn't going to help you get a 3rd party battery.
YT comes to mind with that. Used market went bonkers there for a bit, riders buy used bikes just for the battery and <edit > wiring </edit > stuff.
Good luck to whoever buys a non-Shimano battery. Do we really trust the bike companies to put in something that will last, be supported with replacement parts and not catch fire?
Yeah, not really. If a proper battery maker is engineering it for the bike company, and the battery has the proper certifications, then I'm less concerned about the quality, but the warranty thing is really fully on the bike company's shoulders, and at least a subset of them don't seem to be taking proper responsibility for it.
There is the slow replacement issue, and then the lack of long term support issue. On the long term side: Santa Cruz is known for their awesome frame warranty. Lifetime bearing replacements. Etc...I know people who broke a SC front or rear triangle on bikes that were near 10yrs old, discontinued, and due to the lack of spare parts, SC gave them the newest current equivalent. Now, SC ebike parts only have a 2yr warranty, from my understanding. I am not sure if there is any obligation for them to make parts available beyond the warranty period, but if not, you could have a nearly new SC that is basically unusable due to a bad battery pack. Unlike with a frame failure, they will presumably not be giving you a new Bosch Bullit to replace the unusable Shimano Bullit, in this scenario, so it basically removes the incentive to buy a "premium" brand, because it shares the same weakest link as a budget brand like YT.
All of that assumes that SC doesn't have a warehouse of Darfon batteries and Fazua motors, to keep people on previous generation bikes going, and isn't handing out free warranty Bosch bikes. If they do, then props to them.
Cotic Bikes mentioned in the PB comments that Shimano has new batteries with 205Wh/kg density coming in February. Seems like a PR blunder not to get that out there at launch.
Unless it’s embargoed and they weren’t allowed to mention it…
The open system also allowed for innovative/light bikes like the Orbea Rise and others which was a success. I never heard to there being issues for the owners replacing batteries. But that's a general thing with ebikes: we always talk about the latest and greatest and the evolution is fast. So nobody really cares if 5 to 10 year old bikes still can get spare parts.
Typical shimano communication. They still think everyone is waiting on them
Maxon Motors have some Brands using their system that sounds pretty much like what you are looking for.
Revel released more information about their Avinox powered ReRun V2 this morning... sort of? After having a month long countdown, they released pricing, build kits, and more confusing reservation details while leaving a blurred out frame image. Hoping for more details later today. I love my Ritual and reserved one of these, but the way they're handling this hasn't got me too fired up.
ReRun Frame Kit - Reservation – Revel Bikes
Would be nice to hear your thougts and feedback on a potential bike swap / upgrade plan. I don't need the new bike but..
My current setup & riding
I'm riding a 2020 Trek Rail 5 with about 6,000 km on the clock. Pretty much everything (on its 3rd motor) except the frame, stem, and handlebar has been upgraded or replaced over time as parts wore out. It currently has EXT E-Storia / Cane Creek Helm / FR560 wheels / Dominion A4 brakes but still runs the old-school gameboy-style Bosch Purion display with zero tuning or integration features. I mostly ride in Tour+ mode, and the 625Wh battery gives me plenty of range—I’m usually completely spent by the time it hits 0%, either due to long ride time or pushing at fast pace. Where I live and ride, we don't have massive elevation change or long vertical climbs; it's mostly rolling, very technical singletrack (roots, rocks, and more roots).
The upgrade "hack"
I've been following the new DJI Avinox bikes coming out. Most high-end builds sit close to €10k, but the base Amflow PR Carbon looks like a very competitive entry point at €4,669. I’d rather put the "saved" money toward bike trips.
My idea would be to run the same approach I used on my Trek: buy the base carbon Amflow PR, sell off the stock take-off parts, and swap in my preferred high-end gear (EXT/Öhlins suspension and some decent brakes). Maybe the stock wheels should be evaluated to see if they're okay, but all other frame/motor parts seem good enough.
Three questions:
What do you think about the upgrade hack for the cheapest model?
Would the more powerful, lighter bike with a bigger battery be a good enabler to ride faster and cover more ground in the same amount of time?
How do you see the market changing with these Avinox-powered bikes over the next 6 months? Right now, it feels like supply is tight and there's too little inventory available for customers wanting to buy.
It's really odd to me that there are not aftermarket battery options utilizing updated cells, CF housings, etc.
Maybe it's a liability thing due to fires?
More Maxon motor bikes are coming too
I like most everything Revel does but this countdown tease thing is dumb, release the geometry FFS. It's crazy to me that people are willing to preorder a bike without a geo chart.
I just saw a post that the first production run has already sold out. So, what they are doing must be working well.
i‘d wait for the 17th, they release something new then
What brands authorize 3rd party battery? Shimano, who else? I don't think the market is mature enough for the level of aftermarket tuning.
avinox: https://www.rotwild.com/r-ex
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