True, but with a narrower flange offset than will be possible with a slim driver.
I’m just guessing here, but it’s possibly the same way they did it for the Pro 4. End result is wider flange that overhangs their standard hg driver. That’s how a lot of shimano 7 speed dh setups were done 10 years ago.
Looking up stuff like this is why there is INCOGNITO mode.
Is there an "incognito" mode when I'm having a conversation with someone with my phone in my pocket? I can't tell you how many times Google has feed me ads related to things that were said, but never typed into any app on any device.
Don't worry about the branches. They will be selling different clip-on plastic pieces so that you can fill up the mesh holes and customize your helmet to your feelings, sponsor's desires, or ventilation preferences.
While I enjoy having the a full gamut of drivetrain options, I think we're a long way away from sub-3000 dollar mountain bikes coming with gearboxes. So long as I can get a 10-speed linkglide deore equivalent in the future, with varying cassette sizes between DH and full-pedal, I might not be happy about the lack of choice but I'll at least be satisfied.
I’m just guessing here, but it’s possibly the same way they did it for the Pro 4. End result is wider flange that overhangs their standard...
I’m just guessing here, but it’s possibly the same way they did it for the Pro 4. End result is wider flange that overhangs their standard hg driver. That’s how a lot of shimano 7 speed dh setups were done 10 years ago.
Had no idea that it was a thing with the Pro4, thanks for the picture! Definitely not something you see often at all.
By 4mm total... Not saying its not a good thing to have but its not building a wheel that is perceptibly better.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a 4mm increase in a 57mm width, is not lost in the noise. It will be a measurably stiffer wheel (if that's what you want). Of course both options beat the crazy drive-side dish on typical 148 12-speed wheels.
I think the interesting takeaway for me is that it seems like T-Type drivetrains were heavily beefed up, ostensibly to handle shifting under ebike loads, but now throwing eCVTs into the ebike space might pretty much kill the conventional DR-based drivetrains for ebikes of the not so distant future. I'm curious what this means for future drivetrains on pedal bikes? Will they get more compact and lighter again, or are the S companies too far down the road of burly electric shifting to go back?
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and autoshift derailleurs and internally geared hubs, instead of becoming one more option among a confusing sea of options and pricepoints, like everything else in the bike industry.
I think the interesting takeaway for me is that it seems like T-Type drivetrains were heavily beefed up, ostensibly to handle shifting under ebike loads, but now throwing eCVTs into the ebike space might pretty much kill the conventional DR-based drivetrains for ebikes of the not so distant future. I'm curious what this means for future drivetrains on pedal bikes? Will they get more compact and lighter again, or are the S companies too far down the road of burly electric shifting to go back?
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and...
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and autoshift derailleurs and internally geared hubs, instead of becoming one more option among a confusing sea of options and pricepoints, like everything else in the bike industry.
If only it were that simple.
Ok, so maybe not entirely, but I think a healthy chunk of the ebike market will go that way. I don't own one yet, so really just gaging by the people I see riding ebs around here. Most can't handle maintenance of any kind, so I suspect this will be their preferred option. Probably not for low-power SL bikes though.
Is there an "incognito" mode when I'm having a conversation with someone with my phone in my pocket? I can't tell you how many times Google...
Is there an "incognito" mode when I'm having a conversation with someone with my phone in my pocket? I can't tell you how many times Google has feed me ads related to things that were said, but never typed into any app on any device.
I know it can feel like the phone is listening to you but that would break a bunch of laws- actually what’s happening is your friend is interested in a topic, companies have mapped your social circle and know you both hit the same WiFi network/voluntarily gave them your location, so they can make a guess that you spoke about x thing that they’re in to. A lot of data driven marketing is about linking up data sets like this, arguably it’s more skeevy than directly listening to you but there we are.
You do a lot of brush clearing with your face? On the plus side lots of mounting points for handguards.
Not purposefully, no. But for those times when I do so by accident, I certainly don't want my helmet catch on my surroundings and give me the Steven Seagal treatment.
Is there an "incognito" mode when I'm having a conversation with someone with my phone in my pocket? I can't tell you how many times Google...
Is there an "incognito" mode when I'm having a conversation with someone with my phone in my pocket? I can't tell you how many times Google has feed me ads related to things that were said, but never typed into any app on any device.
I know it can feel like the phone is listening to you but that would break a bunch of laws- actually what’s happening is your friend...
I know it can feel like the phone is listening to you but that would break a bunch of laws- actually what’s happening is your friend is interested in a topic, companies have mapped your social circle and know you both hit the same WiFi network/voluntarily gave them your location, so they can make a guess that you spoke about x thing that they’re in to. A lot of data driven marketing is about linking up data sets like this, arguably it’s more skeevy than directly listening to you but there we are.
Ok, so here's a test case for you. I'm biking with some buddies. We're not young, but we're a long way from the adult-diaper stage of our lives. We're stopped and 2 of them walk off behind trees to relieve themselves, and I joke with them that they need to start wearing diapers. Almost every add popping up in Google for the next month or so is for adult diapers. Could be some crazy coincidence, but it seems like a scene from the HBO series Succession - "We're listening."
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and...
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and autoshift derailleurs and internally geared hubs, instead of becoming one more option among a confusing sea of options and pricepoints, like everything else in the bike industry.
If only it were that simple.
So you don't think DJI is going to completely shake up the industry again with their ecvt in a few years?
Didn't you openly say SRAM is probably scared shitless in that last podcast? I don't understand why we are downplaying the ecvt...
Btw nice job on the Chinese history part of the pod... super interesting.
Ok, so here's a test case for you. I'm biking with some buddies. We're not young, but we're a long way from the adult-diaper stage of...
Ok, so here's a test case for you. I'm biking with some buddies. We're not young, but we're a long way from the adult-diaper stage of our lives. We're stopped and 2 of them walk off behind trees to relieve themselves, and I joke with them that they need to start wearing diapers. Almost every add popping up in Google for the next month or so is for adult diapers. Could be some crazy coincidence, but it seems like a scene from the HBO series Succession - "We're listening."
when the main argument against it happening is “no way, that’d be illegal,” it’s ridiculous to think that it’s not…
the real gnarly thing isn’t that there are ads lining up with what you just talked about though, it’s that they got you to talk about the thing in the first place. They do know us so well they can make us think a certain way.
If I'm doing the math right, with the slim driver, the both flanges move 4.5mm to the right, and the wheel should have symmetric bracing left...
If I'm doing the math right, with the slim driver, the both flanges move 4.5mm to the right, and the wheel should have symmetric bracing left and right. Probably want to use a rim without offset nipples. Should make for a strong wheel, stronger actually than a conventional 157, due to the symmetric bracing.
I believe it's the drive side that moves over 9mm because the change in width is on the drive side due to the slimmer driver.
For example, the One Up 157 hub has a left flange distance of 35 and a right flange distance of 26. These become equal (35) with the XD Slim.
“Notably absent, the DHF won’t get the new casing. That tread won’t go away for less reinforced constructions (at least not right away). But they figure anyone looking for a DH-level tire would prefer an Assegai, HighRoller, or new Minion DHX up front instead.”
“Notably absent, the DHF won’t get the new casing. That tread won’t go away for less reinforced constructions (at least not right away). But they figure...
“Notably absent, the DHF won’t get the new casing. That tread won’t go away for less reinforced constructions (at least not right away). But they figure anyone looking for a DH-level tire would prefer an Assegai, HighRoller, or new Minion DHX up front instead.”
Uh, not me…
Honestly I've never found a situation where I preferred the DHF over an Assegai. DHX looks cool too.
If I'm doing the math right, with the slim driver, the both flanges move 4.5mm to the right, and the wheel should have symmetric bracing left...
If I'm doing the math right, with the slim driver, the both flanges move 4.5mm to the right, and the wheel should have symmetric bracing left and right. Probably want to use a rim without offset nipples. Should make for a strong wheel, stronger actually than a conventional 157, due to the symmetric bracing.
So while only a few mm, it will make a difference in the wheel strength.
If the 9mm comes off the non-drive side, that means the rim shifts left 4.5mm to stay centered in the frame. The flange spacing becomes an even 30.5mm on each side. Unless I'm missing something.
It assumes a 7 speed cassette and the drive side flange overlaps the freehub. So, the flange offset should be similar to what's possible with a...
It assumes a 7 speed cassette and the drive side flange overlaps the freehub. So, the flange offset should be similar to what's possible with a slim driver.
Does this mean there would be nothing stopping me from removing 4 cogs from an 11 speed 11-46 XT cassette to make it 7 speeds / the right width for the slim driver? Then just cranking the limit screws and extra long b tension on existing derailleur (assuming a short cage DH one couldn’t handle the 46t) to adjust it?
Also side note after replacing 2 XT cassettes (which are now $172 Canadian pesos!!) because the 2 largest cogs were chewed up but the rest of the cassette was relatively fine…it’s an absolute racket that Shimano doesn’t sell just the bolted together bottom 3 cogs as a standalone item.
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and...
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and autoshift derailleurs and internally geared hubs, instead of becoming one more option among a confusing sea of options and pricepoints, like everything else in the bike industry.
So you don't think DJI is going to completely shake up the industry again with their ecvt in a few years? Didn't you openly say SRAM is...
So you don't think DJI is going to completely shake up the industry again with their ecvt in a few years?
Didn't you openly say SRAM is probably scared shitless in that last podcast? I don't understand why we are downplaying the ecvt...
Btw nice job on the Chinese history part of the pod... super interesting.
Thank you for the kind words! Glad to hear you enjoyed the podcast and the history bit in particular.
Yes, I do think the DJI and Gobao motor gearbox units are going to shake things up, but the gallows humor joke I was making is that no technology change is ever truly complete in the bike world, where there are still new bikes being sold with straight 1 1/8" steerer tubes, friction shifters, 26" wheels, and freewheels. Which is why I predict there will always be derailleurs even on ebikes, either because the ecvt is too expensive for certain price ranges, or for SL ebikes, or for people who just like the old way of doing things, or who knows what reason I can't think of yet.
So yes, SRAM should be terrified that the ecvt is going to eat up a huge portion of their derailleur sales, and yet I don't think the Transmission drivetrain will be truly irrelevant on ebikes anytime soon.
I don't see ECVT becoming the dominant transmission, I do see gearboxes dominating ebikes in the next decade though. meat powered bikes will stay dominated by the derailleur for as far as I can foresee.
For ECVT Vs gearboxes, like cars and morotbikes, for a sports application (as opposed to the commuter market) there will always be a majority percentage of users that just prefer the control of picking a gear themselves as they read the terrain over something else deciding for you.
I’m just guessing here, but it’s possibly the same way they did it for the Pro 4. End result is wider flange that overhangs their standard hg driver. That’s how a lot of shimano 7 speed dh setups were done 10 years ago.
Is there an "incognito" mode when I'm having a conversation with someone with my phone in my pocket? I can't tell you how many times Google has feed me ads related to things that were said, but never typed into any app on any device.
Don't worry about the branches. They will be selling different clip-on plastic pieces so that you can fill up the mesh holes and customize your helmet to your feelings, sponsor's desires, or ventilation preferences.
You do a lot of brush clearing with your face? On the plus side lots of mounting points for handguards.
While I enjoy having the a full gamut of drivetrain options, I think we're a long way away from sub-3000 dollar mountain bikes coming with gearboxes. So long as I can get a 10-speed linkglide deore equivalent in the future, with varying cassette sizes between DH and full-pedal, I might not be happy about the lack of choice but I'll at least be satisfied.
By 4mm total... Not saying its not a good thing to have but its not building a wheel that is perceptibly better.
Had no idea that it was a thing with the Pro4, thanks for the picture! Definitely not something you see often at all.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a 4mm increase in a 57mm width, is not lost in the noise. It will be a measurably stiffer wheel (if that's what you want). Of course both options beat the crazy drive-side dish on typical 148 12-speed wheels.
I love that you think gearboxes will become ubiquitous on ebikes and will entirely replace mechanical derailleurs and electronic battery-powered derailleurs and electronic hard-wired derailleurs and autoshift derailleurs and internally geared hubs, instead of becoming one more option among a confusing sea of options and pricepoints, like everything else in the bike industry.
If only it were that simple.
Ok, so maybe not entirely, but I think a healthy chunk of the ebike market will go that way. I don't own one yet, so really just gaging by the people I see riding ebs around here. Most can't handle maintenance of any kind, so I suspect this will be their preferred option. Probably not for low-power SL bikes though.
I know it can feel like the phone is listening to you but that would break a bunch of laws- actually what’s happening is your friend is interested in a topic, companies have mapped your social circle and know you both hit the same WiFi network/voluntarily gave them your location, so they can make a guess that you spoke about x thing that they’re in to. A lot of data driven marketing is about linking up data sets like this, arguably it’s more skeevy than directly listening to you but there we are.
Not purposefully, no. But for those times when I do so by accident, I certainly don't want my helmet catch on my surroundings and give me the Steven Seagal treatment.
Ok, so here's a test case for you. I'm biking with some buddies. We're not young, but we're a long way from the adult-diaper stage of our lives. We're stopped and 2 of them walk off behind trees to relieve themselves, and I joke with them that they need to start wearing diapers. Almost every add popping up in Google for the next month or so is for adult diapers. Could be some crazy coincidence, but it seems like a scene from the HBO series Succession - "We're listening."
No it's why ad blockers exist
So you don't think DJI is going to completely shake up the industry again with their ecvt in a few years?
Didn't you openly say SRAM is probably scared shitless in that last podcast? I don't understand why we are downplaying the ecvt...
Btw nice job on the Chinese history part of the pod... super interesting.
when the main argument against it happening is “no way, that’d be illegal,” it’s ridiculous to think that it’s not…
the real gnarly thing isn’t that there are ads lining up with what you just talked about though, it’s that they got you to talk about the thing in the first place. They do know us so well they can make us think a certain way.
You can get some sick follow cam footage of your bros.
Dont forget to add in the Sticker on the bar saying "insta360" or "DJI ACTION" and put the Brand watermark in.
I believe it's the drive side that moves over 9mm because the change in width is on the drive side due to the slimmer driver.
For example, the One Up 157 hub has a left flange distance of 35 and a right flange distance of 26. These become equal (35) with the XD Slim.
According to Hope, their 148 DH hub has a L/R flange distance of 28.5 - https://www.hopetech.com/_repository/1/documents/Pro5_PCD_J_Bend_2025.pdf
So while only a few mm, it will make a difference in the wheel strength.
Bike rumor has a New minion dhx review up
https://bikerumor.com/maxxis-debuts-a-new-minion-dhx-for-dry-plus-all-new-dh-casing-for-all-first-riding-review/
“Notably absent, the DHF won’t get the new casing. That tread won’t go away for less reinforced constructions (at least not right away). But they figure anyone looking for a DH-level tire would prefer an Assegai, HighRoller, or new Minion DHX up front instead.”
Uh, not me…
Honestly I've never found a situation where I preferred the DHF over an Assegai. DHX looks cool too.
1550 grams though... that's a thick b
On this, July 24th, I present to you the optimal wheel size. Not 32", but 54"!
If the 9mm comes off the non-drive side, that means the rim shifts left 4.5mm to stay centered in the frame. The flange spacing becomes an even 30.5mm on each side. Unless I'm missing something.
Magnus Manson appears to also be on a Forbidden DH test bike
So Dreadnought-E, DC fork, prototype stays and possibly rocker?
Does this mean there would be nothing stopping me from removing 4 cogs from an 11 speed 11-46 XT cassette to make it 7 speeds / the right width for the slim driver? Then just cranking the limit screws and extra long b tension on existing derailleur (assuming a short cage DH one couldn’t handle the 46t) to adjust it?
Also side note after replacing 2 XT cassettes (which are now $172 Canadian pesos!!) because the 2 largest cogs were chewed up but the rest of the cassette was relatively fine…it’s an absolute racket that Shimano doesn’t sell just the bolted together bottom 3 cogs as a standalone item.
Thank you for the kind words! Glad to hear you enjoyed the podcast and the history bit in particular.
Yes, I do think the DJI and Gobao motor gearbox units are going to shake things up, but the gallows humor joke I was making is that no technology change is ever truly complete in the bike world, where there are still new bikes being sold with straight 1 1/8" steerer tubes, friction shifters, 26" wheels, and freewheels. Which is why I predict there will always be derailleurs even on ebikes, either because the ecvt is too expensive for certain price ranges, or for SL ebikes, or for people who just like the old way of doing things, or who knows what reason I can't think of yet.
So yes, SRAM should be terrified that the ecvt is going to eat up a huge portion of their derailleur sales, and yet I don't think the Transmission drivetrain will be truly irrelevant on ebikes anytime soon.
I don't see ECVT becoming the dominant transmission, I do see gearboxes dominating ebikes in the next decade though.
meat powered bikes will stay dominated by the derailleur for as far as I can foresee.
For ECVT Vs gearboxes, like cars and morotbikes, for a sports application (as opposed to the commuter market) there will always be a majority percentage of users that just prefer the control of picking a gear themselves as they read the terrain over something else deciding for you.
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