Go away unless you're leaking your own new things. This is a marketing nonsense free zone.Also, are you ret-conning your own lore? I'm 99% sure X2...
Go away unless you're leaking your own new things. This is a marketing nonsense free zone.
Also, are you ret-conning your own lore? I'm 99% sure X2 referred to your twin tube shocks.
Correct, though as of last year Float X2 is no longer twin tube and has moved to a mono-tube design. We kept the X2 designations to help the majority of riders understand what product relates to what category and what adjustments they can expect on the product.
Go away unless you're leaking your own new things. This is a marketing nonsense free zone.Also, are you ret-conning your own lore? I'm 99% sure X2...
Go away unless you're leaking your own new things. This is a marketing nonsense free zone.
Also, are you ret-conning your own lore? I'm 99% sure X2 referred to your twin tube shocks.
It's awesome Vital is getting enough recognition that Fox decided to chime in. So far they haven't done anything but clarify a few things and answer a couple questions.
@FoxFactory can you upgrade an existing gripX2 with the new mid-valve or does it require a whole new damper?
It is beyond stupid that SC doesn't do mullet for the V10 in an XL. On what are already small bikes to begin with, compared to...
It is beyond stupid that SC doesn't do mullet for the V10 in an XL. On what are already small bikes to begin with, compared to some of the other DH sleds out there, not having MX on a XL is crazy. I really wanted to build up a V10 but at my height (6'2") there is no way I am shoehorning myself into 474mm reach large...
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point...
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point when I’m not in a stupid low squat when. My S5 stumpy has 495mm reach with 63.5ha and a taller stack.
1300mm wheelbase, that’s shorter than my stumpy and that’s not even an enduro bike…
In a stupid low squat? I'm only 10mm below your bar height at 6ft, and feels like I'm standing straight up. You must be all limbs with no torso?
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point...
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point when I’m not in a stupid low squat when. My S5 stumpy has 495mm reach with 63.5ha and a taller stack.
1300mm wheelbase, that’s shorter than my stumpy and that’s not even an enduro bike…
In a stupid low squat? I'm only 10mm below your bar height at 6ft, and feels like I'm standing straight up. You must be all limbs...
In a stupid low squat? I'm only 10mm below your bar height at 6ft, and feels like I'm standing straight up. You must be all limbs with no torso?
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when I sat on it, I felt like it wasn’t big enough. Was going to get an XL Summum, but swayed by the new Vessel and am working with Jack to come up with some custom geo that should fit like a glove. When I was racing in my 20’s I could care less about this stuff but now being in my 40’s and getting back into racing it matters a lot more.
X2 is a naming convention that related to 2x the adjustability which applies to Grip X2 as well as our Float X2/DHX2 shocks - two compression...
X2 is a naming convention that related to 2x the adjustability which applies to Grip X2 as well as our Float X2/DHX2 shocks - two compression adjustments (HSC/LSC) and two rebound adjustments (HSR/LSR)!
The new air shaft and dampers are backwards compatible for 40 - a new air spring/damper will take some different setup guidance than on the new...
The new air shaft and dampers are backwards compatible for 40 - a new air spring/damper will take some different setup guidance than on the new fork due to air volume changes with the new chassis so "suggested settings" may not apply.
If you are ever confused by what Model Year your product is you can look it up the serial number on tech.ridefox.com. Your gold fork would be considered Model Year 25 (Calendar Year 2024).
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread...
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread? That way the stays and rocker can all be the same across all models. Also means the (actual) lever arm from the axle to the shock is the same across all models, meaning FEA may not be need to be re done on the rear end for each front triangle size. Just my semi-educated guess.
That seems insane. Doesn’t that change effective seat tube angle?
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread...
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread? That way the stays and rocker can all be the same across all models. Also means the (actual) lever arm from the axle to the shock is the same across all models, meaning FEA may not be need to be re done on the rear end for each front triangle size. Just my semi-educated guess.
That seems insane. Doesn’t that change effective seat tube angle?
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the actual STA to be steeper on larger sizes to compensate and keep eSTA consistent.
Also, speaking from a more financially practical POV (especially in this risky bike market) I assume they would want to have as many shared parts as possible for economies of scale, so knowing the front triangles are all different it’s likely everything else on the frame is size agnostic.
It is beyond stupid that SC doesn't do mullet for the V10 in an XL. On what are already small bikes to begin with, compared to...
It is beyond stupid that SC doesn't do mullet for the V10 in an XL. On what are already small bikes to begin with, compared to some of the other DH sleds out there, not having MX on a XL is crazy. I really wanted to build up a V10 but at my height (6'2") there is no way I am shoehorning myself into 474mm reach large...
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point...
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point when I’m not in a stupid low squat when. My S5 stumpy has 495mm reach with 63.5ha and a taller stack.
1300mm wheelbase, that’s shorter than my stumpy and that’s not even an enduro bike…
FWIW, a few years ago there were many enduro bikes that were, overall, longer than DH bikes. Maybe DH bikes caught up now, but there's logic to enduro bikes being longer. They have to fit you seated, pedalling, DH bikes don't need this. So the cockpits can be shorter mostly because they don't need to be as long.
Also long bikes, I'm beginning to rethink long reaches more and more and I'd love to test a few things for taller riders as well, sadly I'm not there riding quantity wise (or parts availability)...
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread...
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread? That way the stays and rocker can all be the same across all models. Also means the (actual) lever arm from the axle to the shock is the same across all models, meaning FEA may not be need to be re done on the rear end for each front triangle size. Just my semi-educated guess.
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the...
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the actual STA to be steeper on larger sizes to compensate and keep eSTA consistent.
Also, speaking from a more financially practical POV (especially in this risky bike market) I assume they would want to have as many shared parts as possible for economies of scale, so knowing the front triangles are all different it’s likely everything else on the frame is size agnostic.
FWIW my previous and current Birds have L/XL stamped on the underside of the chainstay. And they have the same CS lengths across sizes if I'm not mistaken.
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point...
Not at all, especially with a 637mm stack. I already run 35mm rise bars on a 660 stack bike to get the bars to a point when I’m not in a stupid low squat when. My S5 stumpy has 495mm reach with 63.5ha and a taller stack.
1300mm wheelbase, that’s shorter than my stumpy and that’s not even an enduro bike…
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when...
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when I sat on it, I felt like it wasn’t big enough. Was going to get an XL Summum, but swayed by the new Vessel and am working with Jack to come up with some custom geo that should fit like a glove. When I was racing in my 20’s I could care less about this stuff but now being in my 40’s and getting back into racing it matters a lot more.
You are quite an outlier in body proportions so I get why you don't fit on the V10 well but to call it out as having outdated geometry is questionable when really your fit needs scale to something more like an XXL. Anyway good luck, I'd imagine getting the right fit is hard with a +4 inch ape index.
Personally I think SC has nailed the sizing on the V10. At 6ft and a half inch I'm on the middle headset cup and long chainstay setting and it's great. Stable and agile and without a doubt the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever had the pleasure of throwing a leg over. I would consider the long headset cup for certain tracks but middle has been a great all 'rounder setting.
Correct, though as of last year Float X2 is no longer twin tube and has moved to a mono-tube design. We kept the X2 designations to...
Correct, though as of last year Float X2 is no longer twin tube and has moved to a mono-tube design. We kept the X2 designations to help the majority of riders understand what product relates to what category and what adjustments they can expect on the product.
I actually love the way the new float X2 feels, my friend bought one too and he says it feels better than his old DHX2 coil. You can name it what you want when it rides as good as it does.
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread...
I would think its just a case of moving the BB forward relative to the pivot points, similar to what the did on the V1 dread? That way the stays and rocker can all be the same across all models. Also means the (actual) lever arm from the axle to the shock is the same across all models, meaning FEA may not be need to be re done on the rear end for each front triangle size. Just my semi-educated guess.
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the...
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the actual STA to be steeper on larger sizes to compensate and keep eSTA consistent.
Also, speaking from a more financially practical POV (especially in this risky bike market) I assume they would want to have as many shared parts as possible for economies of scale, so knowing the front triangles are all different it’s likely everything else on the frame is size agnostic.
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time). It is the same as what Norco has done forever on most of their bikes.
The only bikes where this technique falls apart are BB concentric linkages.
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize...
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time). It is the same as what Norco has done forever on most of their bikes.
The only bikes where this technique falls apart are BB concentric linkages.
its more complicated than just that- moving pivots relative to the BB, even as a fixed constellation, changes chaingrowth & antiquat.
This can be a good thing, since larger sizes need more chaingrowth to keep antisquat the same, assuming taller riders on larger sizes. But with more chaingrowth, you get more pedal kickback for a given antisquat value....
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize...
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time). It is the same as what Norco has done forever on most of their bikes.
The only bikes where this technique falls apart are BB concentric linkages.
its more complicated than just that- moving pivots relative to the BB, even as a fixed constellation, changes chaingrowth & antiquat.This can be a good thing...
its more complicated than just that- moving pivots relative to the BB, even as a fixed constellation, changes chaingrowth & antiquat.
This can be a good thing, since larger sizes need more chaingrowth to keep antisquat the same, assuming taller riders on larger sizes. But with more chaingrowth, you get more pedal kickback for a given antisquat value....
I agree. I compared the S2 (photos are from S2) to the S4 with a quick Matlab script.
Obviously if the chainstay and seatstays grow (red line), the leverage ratio changes and so does the travel.
As you said, if you move the BB forward (yellow line), the changes in kinematic are somewhat minor, but considerable.
This is assuming the rocker links are the same.
Also not specific to the Reya, applies to all bikes with significant changes in rear centre. I wonder if @CascadeComponents could chime in.
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when...
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when I sat on it, I felt like it wasn’t big enough. Was going to get an XL Summum, but swayed by the new Vessel and am working with Jack to come up with some custom geo that should fit like a glove. When I was racing in my 20’s I could care less about this stuff but now being in my 40’s and getting back into racing it matters a lot more.
You are quite an outlier in body proportions so I get why you don't fit on the V10 well but to call it out as having...
You are quite an outlier in body proportions so I get why you don't fit on the V10 well but to call it out as having outdated geometry is questionable when really your fit needs scale to something more like an XXL. Anyway good luck, I'd imagine getting the right fit is hard with a +4 inch ape index.
Personally I think SC has nailed the sizing on the V10. At 6ft and a half inch I'm on the middle headset cup and long chainstay setting and it's great. Stable and agile and without a doubt the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever had the pleasure of throwing a leg over. I would consider the long headset cup for certain tracks but middle has been a great all 'rounder setting.
6-4 here plus3 ape, and while I was gona mention that this is the wrong thread, I’d also like to mention that the geometry outliers are also hunting new bike geo to constantly find “that thing” that they’ve been missing for a while, mostly for me and I think S666 it’s a cockpit we can move around in and still control the bike. Outliers? Yes. Buyers? Also yes. FWIW: the answer is currently , NORCO.
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when...
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when I sat on it, I felt like it wasn’t big enough. Was going to get an XL Summum, but swayed by the new Vessel and am working with Jack to come up with some custom geo that should fit like a glove. When I was racing in my 20’s I could care less about this stuff but now being in my 40’s and getting back into racing it matters a lot more.
You are quite an outlier in body proportions so I get why you don't fit on the V10 well but to call it out as having...
You are quite an outlier in body proportions so I get why you don't fit on the V10 well but to call it out as having outdated geometry is questionable when really your fit needs scale to something more like an XXL. Anyway good luck, I'd imagine getting the right fit is hard with a +4 inch ape index.
Personally I think SC has nailed the sizing on the V10. At 6ft and a half inch I'm on the middle headset cup and long chainstay setting and it's great. Stable and agile and without a doubt the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever had the pleasure of throwing a leg over. I would consider the long headset cup for certain tracks but middle has been a great all 'rounder setting.
I never said they were outdated, I said their reach’s are small compared to the rest of the world for the stack, which is a true statement, their large is 474 reach in the middle setting with a 638mm stack, the Xl v10 which of buddy of mine had does not feel like a big bike, ride it and an S4 Phoenix or an XL supreme and it’s pretty clear. Additionally I said that it’s stupid that they decided not to develop an xl with a mullet config, no other company that I know of had done that.
Nothing the Fox shill said in this thread was anything to do with Tech Rumours or Innovation, which should be the topic as stated in the title.
It's a real cool story that they came to post propaganda here, but maybe if they're going to cherry pick questions to answer, maybe it should go in it's own thread.
I meant the tr-11 and bottle rocket look the same. I am pretty sure they share frame parts.
I think you’re wrong. There’s nothing they should share. The tr-11 has a straight head tube the bottle rocket doesn’t. The bottle rocket should be crazy progressive (the way the current tr-11 is like 41% or something stupid lol) am not sure on the progression for the bottle rocket but tr-11 won’t be this crazy progressive this time.
The chainstays 100% are shorter on the bottle rocket too. Theres no way there gunna make the tr-11 short. They may look the same but they definitely are different enough to warrant two different frames otherwise they wouldn’t do it. My bet is hardware is the only thing they will share despite looking exactly the same.
I wonder if transition is using something like faction bike studio to help with design. The current bikes are miles ahead design and quality when compared to last gen bikes.
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the...
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the actual STA to be steeper on larger sizes to compensate and keep eSTA consistent.
Also, speaking from a more financially practical POV (especially in this risky bike market) I assume they would want to have as many shared parts as possible for economies of scale, so knowing the front triangles are all different it’s likely everything else on the frame is size agnostic.
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize...
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time). It is the same as what Norco has done forever on most of their bikes.
The only bikes where this technique falls apart are BB concentric linkages.
Agreed, and sorry if my post wasn't clear. Forbidden's multiple frame overlay shows exactly what you are saying "you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time" since they keep the BB fixed across all of the frames for the purposes of the diagram, but if you shifted all of the frames to the left so the rear axle was the fixed point then you would see that the smaller sizes (front of the frame overlay stack) would have the BB further rearward compared to the larger sizes.
Nothing the Fox shill said in this thread was anything to do with Tech Rumours or Innovation, which should be the topic as stated in the...
Nothing the Fox shill said in this thread was anything to do with Tech Rumours or Innovation, which should be the topic as stated in the title.
It's a real cool story that they came to post propaganda here, but maybe if they're going to cherry pick questions to answer, maybe it should go in it's own thread.
I agree. I compared the S2 (photos are from S2) to the S4 with a quick Matlab script.Obviously if the chainstay and seatstays grow (red line)...
I agree. I compared the S2 (photos are from S2) to the S4 with a quick Matlab script.
Obviously if the chainstay and seatstays grow (red line), the leverage ratio changes and so does the travel.
As you said, if you move the BB forward (yellow line), the changes in kinematic are somewhat minor, but considerable.
This is assuming the rocker links are the same.
Also not specific to the Reya, applies to all bikes with significant changes in rear centre. I wonder if @CascadeComponents could chime in.
Thanks for running these numbers so we could nerd out. It's super interesting.
Respectfully, I don't think the differences in anti-squat or anti-rise represented in the graphs could be felt by anyone on the trail. Maaaaaybe a dedicated in-house suspension tester at one of the brands could tell a difference between 138% AS and 134% AS at full-travel, or between 85% AR and 78% AR at sag, but those are really small differences in practice. Anti-squat and Anti-rise are already hard parameters to isolate and feel out on the trail, and it takes pretty big differences in those numbers to be noticeable, like a four-bar Specialized Enduro at 50% AR vs. a single pivot Deviate Claymore at 135%. Heck, I rode both of those bikes back to back and never noticed or thought about the anti-rise on either one, because I was riding at a bike park that wasn't especially steep (steep sections are where differences in AR are going to be more noticeable).
So while these graphs confirm that a manufacturer scooching their pivot points backwards on a front triangle to lengthen the chainstay between sizes will indeed create changes in the AS/AR numbers, I don't think those changes will be significant. For all intents and purposes, the suspension system is going to ride the same. The change that's going to be noticeable is the increase in chainstay length and wheelbase.
I think that most manufacturers lack of a change in layup pattern between sizes would be much, much more noticeable between size small and size XL than any change in AS or AR from moving pivot points forward or back.
I guess the one caveat I'll make is that Forbidden has to move their pivot points A LOT due to the massive difference in chainstay length between sizes (420mm the new S1 Reya vs. 464mm on the S4 is a difference of 44mm!!), so maybe the change in AS and AR would be more significant if we compared the kinematics on the S1 vs. S4.
Nothing the Fox shill said in this thread was anything to do with Tech Rumours or Innovation, which should be the topic as stated in the...
Nothing the Fox shill said in this thread was anything to do with Tech Rumours or Innovation, which should be the topic as stated in the title.
It's a real cool story that they came to post propaganda here, but maybe if they're going to cherry pick questions to answer, maybe it should go in it's own thread.
Thanks for running these numbers so we could nerd out. It's super interesting.Respectfully, I don't think the differences in anti-squat or anti-rise represented in the graphs...
Thanks for running these numbers so we could nerd out. It's super interesting.
Respectfully, I don't think the differences in anti-squat or anti-rise represented in the graphs could be felt by anyone on the trail. Maaaaaybe a dedicated in-house suspension tester at one of the brands could tell a difference between 138% AS and 134% AS at full-travel, or between 85% AR and 78% AR at sag, but those are really small differences in practice. Anti-squat and Anti-rise are already hard parameters to isolate and feel out on the trail, and it takes pretty big differences in those numbers to be noticeable, like a four-bar Specialized Enduro at 50% AR vs. a single pivot Deviate Claymore at 135%. Heck, I rode both of those bikes back to back and never noticed or thought about the anti-rise on either one, because I was riding at a bike park that wasn't especially steep (steep sections are where differences in AR are going to be more noticeable).
So while these graphs confirm that a manufacturer scooching their pivot points backwards on a front triangle to lengthen the chainstay between sizes will indeed create changes in the AS/AR numbers, I don't think those changes will be significant. For all intents and purposes, the suspension system is going to ride the same. The change that's going to be noticeable is the increase in chainstay length and wheelbase.
I think that most manufacturers lack of a change in layup pattern between sizes would be much, much more noticeable between size small and size XL than any change in AS or AR from moving pivot points forward or back.
I guess the one caveat I'll make is that Forbidden has to move their pivot points A LOT due to the massive difference in chainstay length between sizes (420mm the new S1 Reya vs. 464mm on the S4 is a difference of 44mm!!), so maybe the change in AS and AR would be more significant if we compared the kinematics on the S1 vs. S4.
Do we know if they change tube thickness between sizes?
Obviously a size S frame has a smaller and inherently stiffer front triangle it would be logical to decrease tube diameter or thickness to achieve the same compliance and ride feel on the smaller sizes.
It's awesome Vital is getting enough recognition that Fox decided to chime in. So far they haven't done anything but clarify a few things and answer...
It's awesome Vital is getting enough recognition that Fox decided to chime in. So far they haven't done anything but clarify a few things and answer a couple questions.
@FoxFactory can you upgrade an existing gripX2 with the new mid-valve or does it require a whole new damper?
You can - depends on your desire to order small parts and do disassembly and reassembly. The kits will become available and the tech can be applied. You can look up parts kits on the tech page, though MY27 won't appear for another few weeks: tech.ridefox.com
Correct, though as of last year Float X2 is no longer twin tube and has moved to a mono-tube design. We kept the X2 designations to help the majority of riders understand what product relates to what category and what adjustments they can expect on the product.
It's awesome Vital is getting enough recognition that Fox decided to chime in. So far they haven't done anything but clarify a few things and answer a couple questions.
@FoxFactory can you upgrade an existing gripX2 with the new mid-valve or does it require a whole new damper?
In a stupid low squat? I'm only 10mm below your bar height at 6ft, and feels like I'm standing straight up. You must be all limbs with no torso?
lol kinda, 6’6” wingspan. Even on my Madonna I feel like I’m cramped. A buddy of mine had the new v10 in an XL and when I sat on it, I felt like it wasn’t big enough. Was going to get an XL Summum, but swayed by the new Vessel and am working with Jack to come up with some custom geo that should fit like a glove. When I was racing in my 20’s I could care less about this stuff but now being in my 40’s and getting back into racing it matters a lot more.
Thank you!!
That seems insane. Doesn’t that change effective seat tube angle?
I think he’s right though based on this overlay from Forbidden’s site (assuming a similar approach as their high pivots). I think they just adjust the actual STA to be steeper on larger sizes to compensate and keep eSTA consistent.
Also, speaking from a more financially practical POV (especially in this risky bike market) I assume they would want to have as many shared parts as possible for economies of scale, so knowing the front triangles are all different it’s likely everything else on the frame is size agnostic.
FWIW, a few years ago there were many enduro bikes that were, overall, longer than DH bikes. Maybe DH bikes caught up now, but there's logic to enduro bikes being longer. They have to fit you seated, pedalling, DH bikes don't need this. So the cockpits can be shorter mostly because they don't need to be as long.
Also long bikes, I'm beginning to rethink long reaches more and more and I'd love to test a few things for taller riders as well, sadly I'm not there riding quantity wise (or parts availability)...
FWIW my previous and current Birds have L/XL stamped on the underside of the chainstay. And they have the same CS lengths across sizes if I'm not mistaken.
You are quite an outlier in body proportions so I get why you don't fit on the V10 well but to call it out as having outdated geometry is questionable when really your fit needs scale to something more like an XXL. Anyway good luck, I'd imagine getting the right fit is hard with a +4 inch ape index.
Personally I think SC has nailed the sizing on the V10. At 6ft and a half inch I'm on the middle headset cup and long chainstay setting and it's great. Stable and agile and without a doubt the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever had the pleasure of throwing a leg over. I would consider the long headset cup for certain tracks but middle has been a great all 'rounder setting.
I actually love the way the new float X2 feels, my friend bought one too and he says it feels better than his old DHX2 coil. You can name it what you want when it rides as good as it does.
Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time). It is the same as what Norco has done forever on most of their bikes.
The only bikes where this technique falls apart are BB concentric linkages.
its more complicated than just that- moving pivots relative to the BB, even as a fixed constellation, changes chaingrowth & antiquat.
This can be a good thing, since larger sizes need more chaingrowth to keep antisquat the same, assuming taller riders on larger sizes. But with more chaingrowth, you get more pedal kickback for a given antisquat value....
I agree. I compared the S2 (photos are from S2) to the S4 with a quick Matlab script.
Obviously if the chainstay and seatstays grow (red line), the leverage ratio changes and so does the travel.
As you said, if you move the BB forward (yellow line), the changes in kinematic are somewhat minor, but considerable.
This is assuming the rocker links are the same.
Also not specific to the Reya, applies to all bikes with significant changes in rear centre. I wonder if @CascadeComponents could chime in.
Is Tazzie Annie is showing off the new Nomad in this Thule ad?
6-4 here plus3 ape, and while I was gona mention that this is the wrong thread, I’d also like to mention that the geometry outliers are also hunting new bike geo to constantly find “that thing” that they’ve been missing for a while, mostly for me and I think S666 it’s a cockpit we can move around in and still control the bike.
Outliers? Yes.
Buyers? Also yes.
FWIW: the answer is currently , NORCO.
pit bits from tennessee national - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/pit-bits-tennessee-national-2026
Looks like the old gloss gypsum color with decals. Shock mount is the same (not recessed like Bronson).
I never said they were outdated, I said their reach’s are small compared to the rest of the world for the stack, which is a true statement, their large is 474 reach in the middle setting with a 638mm stack, the Xl v10 which of buddy of mine had does not feel like a big bike, ride it and an S4 Phoenix or an XL supreme and it’s pretty clear. Additionally I said that it’s stupid that they decided not to develop an xl with a mullet config, no other company that I know of had done that.
I’ll keep it out this thread from now on…
Clip pedals
Nothing the Fox shill said in this thread was anything to do with Tech Rumours or Innovation, which should be the topic as stated in the title.
It's a real cool story that they came to post propaganda here, but maybe if they're going to cherry pick questions to answer, maybe it should go in it's own thread.
I think you’re wrong. There’s nothing they should share. The tr-11 has a straight head tube the bottle rocket doesn’t. The bottle rocket should be crazy progressive (the way the current tr-11 is like 41% or something stupid lol) am not sure on the progression for the bottle rocket but tr-11 won’t be this crazy progressive this time.
The chainstays 100% are shorter on the bottle rocket too. Theres no way there gunna make the tr-11 short. They may look the same but they definitely are different enough to warrant two different frames otherwise they wouldn’t do it. My bet is hardware is the only thing they will share despite looking exactly the same.
I wonder if transition is using something like faction bike studio to help with design. The current bikes are miles ahead design and quality when compared to last gen bikes.
Agreed, and sorry if my post wasn't clear. Forbidden's multiple frame overlay shows exactly what you are saying "you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time" since they keep the BB fixed across all of the frames for the purposes of the diagram, but if you shifted all of the frames to the left so the rear axle was the fixed point then you would see that the smaller sizes (front of the frame overlay stack) would have the BB further rearward compared to the larger sizes.
Do you mean these https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/clipless-pedals or pedals w/ toeclips?
dude, go outside and ride your bike!
Thanks for running these numbers so we could nerd out. It's super interesting.
Respectfully, I don't think the differences in anti-squat or anti-rise represented in the graphs could be felt by anyone on the trail. Maaaaaybe a dedicated in-house suspension tester at one of the brands could tell a difference between 138% AS and 134% AS at full-travel, or between 85% AR and 78% AR at sag, but those are really small differences in practice. Anti-squat and Anti-rise are already hard parameters to isolate and feel out on the trail, and it takes pretty big differences in those numbers to be noticeable, like a four-bar Specialized Enduro at 50% AR vs. a single pivot Deviate Claymore at 135%. Heck, I rode both of those bikes back to back and never noticed or thought about the anti-rise on either one, because I was riding at a bike park that wasn't especially steep (steep sections are where differences in AR are going to be more noticeable).
So while these graphs confirm that a manufacturer scooching their pivot points backwards on a front triangle to lengthen the chainstay between sizes will indeed create changes in the AS/AR numbers, I don't think those changes will be significant. For all intents and purposes, the suspension system is going to ride the same. The change that's going to be noticeable is the increase in chainstay length and wheelbase.
I think that most manufacturers lack of a change in layup pattern between sizes would be much, much more noticeable between size small and size XL than any change in AS or AR from moving pivot points forward or back.
I guess the one caveat I'll make is that Forbidden has to move their pivot points A LOT due to the massive difference in chainstay length between sizes (420mm the new S1 Reya vs. 464mm on the S4 is a difference of 44mm!!), so maybe the change in AS and AR would be more significant if we compared the kinematics on the S1 vs. S4.
By all accounts, the new Nomad is a 4-bar, like the new Tallboy.
So, most likely not.
Show us on the doll where the X2 touched you.
Do we know if they change tube thickness between sizes?
Obviously a size S frame has a smaller and inherently stiffer front triangle it would be logical to decrease tube diameter or thickness to achieve the same compliance and ride feel on the smaller sizes.
You can - depends on your desire to order small parts and do disassembly and reassembly. The kits will become available and the tech can be applied. You can look up parts kits on the tech page, though MY27 won't appear for another few weeks: tech.ridefox.com
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