MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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notthatbryan
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Acworth, GA, USA
10/6/2025 5:12am

The rollers of the T-type chains are larger making the effective chain pitch different from standard, that's what makes them technically incompatible with older cassettes/ chainrings. 

That said lots of "incompatible" parts work fine together. Ive been quite happy with my XO1 AXS derailleur and shifter with an XT cassette and chain for a couple of years. 

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10/6/2025 5:26am
The rollers of the T-type chains are larger making the effective chain pitch different from standard, that's what makes them technically incompatible with older cassettes/ chainrings. That...

The rollers of the T-type chains are larger making the effective chain pitch different from standard, that's what makes them technically incompatible with older cassettes/ chainrings. 

That said lots of "incompatible" parts work fine together. Ive been quite happy with my XO1 AXS derailleur and shifter with an XT cassette and chain for a couple of years. 

I've known many people that have done that combo.. As I understand it, the cassette spacing is only a couple thousandths difference..

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chriskief
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10/6/2025 7:23am
Hixee wrote:
I have always wondered....both the chainring and the cassette only touch the inside (not the flat bit) of the chain so I assumed that wouldn't be...

I have always wondered....both the chainring and the cassette only touch the inside (not the flat bit) of the chain so I assumed that wouldn't be what affected compatibility, maybe just shift speed. If anything I assumed it was something to do with chain widths that made the compatibility an issue but then the cynic in me says its just an OEM pumping its own stuff. Anyone had any experience on running any old 12spd chain on a transmission setup?

boozed wrote:

I always assumed the flat top was for strength (i.e. any other differences/incompatibilities are independent of that aspect of the design)

As I have understood it, T-type chains have a slightly larger roller than normal... I wonder if we are seeing a derailleur with UDH mounting combined...

As I have understood it, T-type chains have a slightly larger roller than normal... I wonder if we are seeing a derailleur with UDH mounting combined with existing DH chain and cassette? 

Not all DH bikes are UDH, so I'm assuming SRAM will have an option for this with their next release.

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10/6/2025 8:37am
chriskief wrote:

Not all DH bikes are UDH, so I'm assuming SRAM will have an option for this with their next release.

They'll most likely still have the current DH groups available for a while after they officially release the T-type group or groups.. Maybe 1 electronic and 1 mechanical group for T-type? 

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dwhere
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dirty, DE, USA
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10/6/2025 10:33am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2025 10:34am

New Saint Calipers?

image 464
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1
10/6/2025 11:13am
dwhere wrote:
New Saint Calipers?

New Saint Calipers?

image 464

Jackson (and a bunch of other riders) have been using them for a while now. 

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10/6/2025 3:50pm
The rollers of the T-type chains are larger making the effective chain pitch different from standard, that's what makes them technically incompatible with older cassettes/ chainrings. That...

The rollers of the T-type chains are larger making the effective chain pitch different from standard, that's what makes them technically incompatible with older cassettes/ chainrings. 

That said lots of "incompatible" parts work fine together. Ive been quite happy with my XO1 AXS derailleur and shifter with an XT cassette and chain for a couple of years. 

I've known many people that have done that combo.. As I understand it, the cassette spacing is only a couple thousandths difference..

Yep, so a lightly used T-type chain works easily on other cassettes, the only issues are when the chain is brand new, but after a bit of wear the rollers will size down to the standard of a brand new (non T-type) 12 speed anyway. 

I just assumed they would make the new DH cassette use their new chains, eliminates a SKU, means DH riders can easily source any new 12 speed SRAM chain etc etc. 

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1
10/6/2025 4:00pm
Yep, so a lightly used T-type chain works easily on other cassettes, the only issues are when the chain is brand new, but after a bit...

Yep, so a lightly used T-type chain works easily on other cassettes, the only issues are when the chain is brand new, but after a bit of wear the rollers will size down to the standard of a brand new (non T-type) 12 speed anyway. 

I just assumed they would make the new DH cassette use their new chains, eliminates a SKU, means DH riders can easily source any new 12 speed SRAM chain etc etc. 

I would assume that too... I'm thinking that we might be seeing some different combos as there may be testing  with some limited parts right now.. The big question is how far out are the new group or groups? 

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AgrAde
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., BV
10/7/2025 1:37am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2025 3:48am

it's possible that maybe the DH group just isn't 12 speed spacing and so not using the 12 speed chain.

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sluette
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DE
10/7/2025 2:28am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2025 2:29am
dwhere wrote:
New Saint Calipers?

New Saint Calipers?

image 464

Unbelievable, I thought nothing could be uglier than Maven brake calipers...even though they work perfectly...

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3
jsray
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Gilbert, AZ, USA
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10/7/2025 5:34am
dwhere wrote:
New Saint Calipers?

New Saint Calipers?

image 464
sluette wrote:

Unbelievable, I thought nothing could be uglier than Maven brake calipers...even though they work perfectly...

image 20.gif?VersionId=P8Nx2ehyAo9ZJWElwm3V3QDJSZQeMJ
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ex-ballz
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Ouagadougou, EH
10/7/2025 6:14am
dwhere wrote:
New Saint Calipers?

New Saint Calipers?

image 464
sluette wrote:

Unbelievable, I thought nothing could be uglier than Maven brake calipers...even though they work perfectly...

jsray wrote:
image 20.gif?VersionId=P8Nx2ehyAo9ZJWElwm3V3QDJSZQeMJ

He's not wrong.

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1
10/7/2025 8:16am
bnsleit wrote:

why? spent a month in Canada this summer and the best trails I rode and spent time brushing/clearing deadfall from weren't on any other map

jasbushey wrote:
Showing up to a federal land agency meeting with heat maps printed discussing decommission was an eye opening experience.  It’s a great tool for them to...

Showing up to a federal land agency meeting with heat maps printed discussing decommission was an eye opening experience.  It’s a great tool for them to identify and remove any trail that was a significant amount of time to build. Your 2 minutes of enjoyment likely was 100 hours of work or more.  And it just put a bullseye on the trail when you published your ride.

You can remove sharing heat maps on your settings, not make rides public and hide your maps. Or just not strava those trails. 

Anything you want to keep secret should not have any GPS data even recorded at all from your watch/Garmin/phone. Record it as a strength workout with GPS off. I don't trust Strava to even have the data held on their servers even if my ride is private and hidden from the heat map. Every tech company eventually grossly misuses private data and I expect Strava to be no different. (especially after they IPO)

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jonkranked
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Norristown, PA, USA
10/7/2025 8:34am
dwhere wrote:
New Saint Calipers?

New Saint Calipers?

image 464
sluette wrote:

Unbelievable, I thought nothing could be uglier than Maven brake calipers...even though they work perfectly...

jsray wrote:
image 20.gif?VersionId=P8Nx2ehyAo9ZJWElwm3V3QDJSZQeMJ

crab calipers

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2
10/7/2025 8:56am
sluette wrote:

Unbelievable, I thought nothing could be uglier than Maven brake calipers...even though they work perfectly...

jsray wrote:
image 20.gif?VersionId=P8Nx2ehyAo9ZJWElwm3V3QDJSZQeMJ
jonkranked wrote:

crab calipers

Wandering crab point

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jonkranked
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10/7/2025 9:11am
jsray wrote:
image 20.gif?VersionId=P8Nx2ehyAo9ZJWElwm3V3QDJSZQeMJ
jonkranked wrote:

crab calipers

63expert wrote:

Wandering crab point

brakes = pincers

<carcinization intensifies>

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DenyeR
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La Serena, Coquimbo, CL
10/7/2025 9:39am

New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829

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Big Bird
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Oceano, CA, USA
10/7/2025 11:01am
jonkranked wrote:

crab calipers

Crab Claws.

1
10/7/2025 11:53am
Big Bird wrote:

Crab Claws.

Crab pincer?

1
1
10/7/2025 12:10pm
DenyeR wrote:
New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.

New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829

Looks like a Scor. Also furthers the point that the Vala is just a rebadged GT, since it is somehow a VPP e-bike with bosch.

2
TomJones
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Location
San Jose, CA, USA
10/7/2025 12:24pm
DenyeR wrote:
New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.

New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829

 

Why can we not just have straight lines. Why does everything need a kink in it somewhere?

 

Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829 0

 

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Jotegr
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Interior, BC, CA
10/7/2025 12:44pm

Interesting that another VPP brand manages to squeeze the platform onto an ebike. 

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metadave
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10/7/2025 12:53pm
DenyeR wrote:
New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.

New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829

TomJones wrote:
 Why can we not just have straight lines. Why does everything need a kink in it somewhere?   

 

Why can we not just have straight lines. Why does everything need a kink in it somewhere?

 

Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829 0

 

Straight lines are nice, but you can't kink shame them. 

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kperras
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CA
10/7/2025 12:53pm
Jotegr wrote:

Interesting that another VPP brand manages to squeeze the platform onto an ebike. 

The vertical shock layout with a 4-bar suspension design achieves the least amount of compromise when considering the old "Less expensive - Stronger - Lighter" adage. An extra link, part of VPP designs for example, is an added cost and weight but may add durability (stiffness falls in this category) over a 4-bar design. 

4
10/7/2025 1:00pm
TomJones wrote:
 Why can we not just have straight lines. Why does everything need a kink in it somewhere?   

 

Why can we not just have straight lines. Why does everything need a kink in it somewhere?

 

Captura de pantalla 2025-10-07 133829 0

 

Because now that "kink shaming" is out, the bike designers finally feel free to express themselves.

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Glory831Guy
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Santa Cruz, CA, USA
10/7/2025 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2025 6:37pm

I took a deeper look at the press photos from the new electric Reign, and it looks like Giant have completely changed their lower linkage/front triangle interface. The lower link is now one solid piece that sits between the front and rear triangles, and the seat tube is split, down by the BB. This should create a less flexxy lower link/rear end, right?1000001237 0.jpg?VersionId=LaLY 5Cr

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Jotegr
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10/7/2025 1:12pm
Jotegr wrote:

Interesting that another VPP brand manages to squeeze the platform onto an ebike. 

kperras wrote:
The vertical shock layout with a 4-bar suspension design achieves the least amount of compromise when considering the old "Less expensive - Stronger - Lighter" adage...

The vertical shock layout with a 4-bar suspension design achieves the least amount of compromise when considering the old "Less expensive - Stronger - Lighter" adage. An extra link, part of VPP designs for example, is an added cost and weight but may add durability (stiffness falls in this category) over a 4-bar design. 

I'm pointing it out not because a brand ought to go with VPP or Crab Link for their ebike, but because the 'Cruz explained in their podcast that VPP didn't fly with the new bosch motor, and yet - here's another brand launching a VPP ebike after the Vala (although admittedly I can't see what motor Intense is using in the photo). 

 

Besides, I vastly prefer the "PON only released the Vala as four bar to capitalize on the R&D of the close-to-launch GT ebike" conspiracy theory anyway. 

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3
owl-x
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Shell Beach, CA, USA
10/7/2025 1:49pm

I like Santa Cruz but their crustacean justification is boiled, bruh

 

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10/7/2025 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2025 1:57pm
Jotegr wrote:

Interesting that another VPP brand manages to squeeze the platform onto an ebike. 

I can't image Santa Cruz (and every other other high end brand) isn't developing a DJI bike right now and they will manage to make it VPP again. Crestline already did it. Ran across one of those in the wild recently and had a chat about it. His buddies were on Amflow and freaking Teewing! There's a sizable chunk of the ebike market that is DJI or bust and will try a "not real brand" just for the motor. I can't imagine SC not wanting a slice of that pie.

I'd never buy an Amflow or Teewing, but I do view all these Bosch bikes getting released as already obsolete. That's only going to be sped up when the DJI Commencal drops for $7,900 (with a decent spec and supposedly lifetime warranty) Vala AL for $6K is the only good value for money Bosch bike. Any higher and it better have the new hotness of DJI.  Every single ebike motor has a laughable 2 year warranty so what's really the benefit of going Bosch over DJI? 

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Glory831Guy
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Santa Cruz, CA, USA
10/7/2025 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2025 2:19pm
Jotegr wrote:

Interesting that another VPP brand manages to squeeze the platform onto an ebike. 

I can't image Santa Cruz (and every other other high end brand) isn't developing a DJI bike right now and they will manage to make it...

I can't image Santa Cruz (and every other other high end brand) isn't developing a DJI bike right now and they will manage to make it VPP again. Crestline already did it. Ran across one of those in the wild recently and had a chat about it. His buddies were on Amflow and freaking Teewing! There's a sizable chunk of the ebike market that is DJI or bust and will try a "not real brand" just for the motor. I can't imagine SC not wanting a slice of that pie.

I'd never buy an Amflow or Teewing, but I do view all these Bosch bikes getting released as already obsolete. That's only going to be sped up when the DJI Commencal drops for $7,900 (with a decent spec and supposedly lifetime warranty) Vala AL for $6K is the only good value for money Bosch bike. Any higher and it better have the new hotness of DJI.  Every single ebike motor has a laughable 2 year warranty so what's really the benefit of going Bosch over DJI? 

Only advantage Bosch has at this point, is that it's viewed  as the 2000's Japanese 4 banger of the market. No new hotness, but people consider them very reliable. Sometimes HAVING a warantee and NEEDING a warantee are pretty different experiences. If they both had a 3 year warranty, would you rather own a Chevy Equinox, or a Honda CRV?

The guy who rides in Turbo mode everywhere, and has 3 spare batteries for more laps isn't the average EMTB rider, either.

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