Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
No surprise that the giant hole in the downtube requires thicker tubing and more weight.
And the return of late 80s/early 90s paint schemes!
That paint is sick but the black bit of the front triangle looks like a repair job where they couldn't be arsed matching the paint.
Looks like they do it so the rocker links can all be the same colour.
From the consumer side it definitely looks more complex, but from the manufacturing side even with all these options they have still reduced their SKU's, what was previously three bikes has now been wrapped into one frame, the only parts that change are the Rocker links and lower shock mounts which are pretty small and easy to manufacture.
Before they had three bikes, the Remedy, Gen 5 Slash and Fuel, each with their own corresponding parts, e.g different rocker links, different chainstays, different seatstays, different frames, etc. Now with the new model, you have one frame, one set of seatstays/chainstays, etc.
Now, with the new platform, there's one frame and one set of seatstays/chainstays. This gives them the ability to scale output to meet demand. For example, if they previously had a bunch of Slashes or Remedys sitting around unsold, that production capacity can now be pivoted to make more Fuels if that's what consumers are after. It makes a lot of sense from a business and manufacturing standpoint. The challenging part of getting that system to work is having the scale to implement it, which a company like Trek obviously has. It also dramatically simplifies warranty procedures as rather than having to carry three different frames and sets of frame specific parts all they need is Fuel/Fuel+ parts.
I've said it before in this thread, but I expect more of the big brands to go in this direction. It maintains a wide range of choice for the consumer while reducing the total number of parts that need to be produced. It's similar to how Specialized combined the Stumpy and Stumpy EVO, but this approach feels less compromised. The rider gets much more granular control over the bike's setup with all the built-in adjustment options.
I’m well aware as I’m currently doing it with my Patrol 🙂 I’m saying there should be a build for the thousands of people who bought a YT Tues and would maybe be better served on something that isn’t a DH race bike. Also selfishly I’d like a dual crown Patrol/Spire to show up in rental fleets since I go overseas once a year and don’t bring a bike (that’s how I landed on the Status 170 DH)
fair enough for sure compared to what they used to deal with, but each frame configuration (on fuel) still has 8 different build kits (not including the 2 alloy builds). seems like that could easily be paired down to 4 or 5 per configuration and no one would flinch (except maybe OE partners?).
You nailed it.
I keep coming back to moto and powersports, they’ve long had to figure out how to do more with less. (models, trim levels etc, all with one frame)
When one or two “special” parts unlock a wide range of options, and those parts are easy or cheap to produce compared to the rest of the high-cost product, that’s a huge win. Even if it inflates the perceived SKU count, it’s still efficient.
It’s like Chipotle: 100,000+ burrito combinations, but just a handful of inputs and tight control over the process. Very different than cheesecake factory, even if it looks like there are an equal number of options at either establishment.
Interestingly in Australia (and probably NZ) they are not even selling the LX or MX as separate models. Instead they just have three options to choose from and to go for the MX/LX you have to buy the rocker links (which are $299 NZD).
So for some markets they are dramatically reducing the SKU's they offer. I guess with the American market they must have the scale to offer a wider range of build kits.
I wouldn't be surprised if they basically end up with three key frames:
Next Gen Top Fuel for Cross Country/Downcountry/Trail
Fuel for Trail/All-Mountain/Enduro
Then the Next Gen Slash/Session for Enduro/Downhill. Similar to the latest Orbea Rallon.
I actually saw this on the Slash FB page the other day, apparently it’s a custom 190/190mm travel Gen 6 Slash with custom rocker/lower linkages and dual crown fork.
I imagine a Slashession would be extremely popular since it can be pretty hard to justify a downhill bike for a lot of people, but something that could do both without too many compromises would be pretty compelling.
Absolutely did, saw something about 18,5 kg and that's all I based my comment on. That's how I internet folks. Upon closer inspection it would probably weigh about the same as my old Norco sight in a similar configuration.
… no bike above 10k…
That bike is owned and built by Loris Vergier's ex mechanic while at Trek called Pierre-Alexander Roche. Its got a longer rear shock and custom lower mount. Very tick build withshort cage 7 speed electronic mech
you can call it remedy if that works out better for you?
Any info on the mech? Having an electronic DH mech would be cool on a bike like this since you could switch between long and short cage for park days with minimal effort.
Stack is so in right now and nice to see Trek moving it up on the latest Fuels.
Nowhere near? No, that's about right. DH bikes are typically lighter than their enduro brethren these days.
Does the new Trek frame vindicate Privateer?
Top tube hump ✅
Ugly Rocker link ✅
Heavier than previous model ✅
It’s time people accept that we ask 140mm frames to ride the same trails and features that used to be exclusive to downhill bikes. The big difference is the trail bike has to do it with a dropper post and 12 speed cassette
I don't think so.
The Privateer's top tube hump looks like a dog taking a dump and I had legitimately forgotten how bad the rocker link is. I've never been a Trek guy and don't think there is anything that'll convince me to be a Trek guy, but the new Fuel is downright svelte compared to the Privateer.
Weight? I'm on a Madonna, so not the guy to criticize bike weight. Lol.
My first thought when seeing the frame tbh. I’m seeing way too many top tube humps these days. They signal lower stack which some of us despise, so I’m wondering if that’s the subconscious origin of the hate (beyond whatever aesthetic issue they bring…)
There is more money to be made by selling two bikes than a bike and a link, but the marketplace can only support so many bikes. I suppose that modularity will be driven by brands calculating that tradeoff, with some brands realizing that they can sell two bikes and other brands realizing that they can’t pull that off. Someone like Speci will keep pushing a different bike for every trail you ride, while smaller brands might find themselves becoming more competitive with a modular offering.
You can just use a Gen 1 axs and put a short or medium cage on. Then just max out limit screws.
Well that's what I did anyway, it works fine.
Nothing will ever vindicate that bike
I like the rocker link. It looks industrial. I’m not a fan of colour matched swoopy carbon links. Give me cascades styling any day.
This looks like a rockshox Genie
Next gen Super Deluxe?
pffft that guy doesn't have any access to pre-production SRAM stuff. Just some old washed up dad.
Who are we talking about?
I actually think it’s the opposite. I feel like modularity is harder to pull off cost-effectively as a smaller operation. You really need the economies of scale that only the bigger brands have to pull it off in a way that actually delivers cost savings to the manufacturer.
And specialized already seem to be reducing their product lines, Kenevo is gone and it looks like the Kenevo SL isn’t getting an update either. Stumpy evo is likely out as a bespoke frame at least. Like Trek they have indicated that they are aiming to rationalise product lineups and streamline operations.
I think for these bigger companies it’s potentially almost riskier having too many models compared to smaller brands. After 2020 I think they were badly burnt from excess inventory and are now in the process of rationalising their product lines to maximise efficiency and make sure they never end up with warehouses full of outdated bikes they have to sell for steep discounts again.
It’s also a lot easier to forecast demand with a reduced number of SKU’s.
It’s actually kind of insane how many choices we have for MTB now, I expect long term we will get more market consolidation as the current industry just doesn’t seem sustainable as there’s so much competition that nobody is able to really benefit from economies of scale to undercut competitors. I guess it also doesn’t help that the barrier for entry to making bicycle frames is a lot lower than something like a dirt bike so it’s easy for competitors to enter the market and compete for market share.
It could also just be a larger air can though?