Tire chat (nerds only)

Increasing my ride times and frequency to train up for a long race has really made me appreciate faster-rolling tires more. Plus, the skill increase from the amount of riding and dialing in line choice kind of negates (with certain exceptions) any downsides to not having the most hardcore, sticky rubber you can find.

What’s been your experiences with the newest Michelin tires? I feel that the grip is quite good, rolling a little slow and the sides seem to crack.

I’m not sure if I will buy new set anymore.

Schwalbe Eddy Current or Maxxis Assegai have better side knobs than a Magic Mary and it isn't even close.

Eddy current is probably the worst tyre i've tried, did not like it one bit. might be, where i wash out with an Assegai maxx grip i don't with a Trail Pro ultrasoft Mary, that's all i need to know. Calling a Mary Dated and weak it's just stupid i stand by my statement. the latest Test by Enduro MTB Proves with actual data that Schwalbe chasings are anything but weak, therefore statement based on nothing.

In general, I agree, but I've been finding the limits of this. I was running a Conti Kryptotal Fr Trail Soft/Xynotal Trail Endurance pair for a few months and it was great for like 80% of my riding. But I was having less and less fun on the remaining 20% and found myself avoiding some really fun trails because they had a few steep, loose, high-commitment sections. Now, I can go on Strava and see the local NICA kids blowing through those sections twice as fast as my best times on full DH tires, so it's obviously not the case that it can't be done, but it was, for me, a lot less fun.

After spending a few hours trying to find an Argotal Trail Soft tire, I bit the bullet and went with a High Roller 3 EXO+ MaxxGrip/DHR2 EXO+ MaxxTerra combo and while it's a little less efficient-feeling on the fast hardpack, it has enough grip in the steep loose crap that I feel comfortable riding those trails again. It's not as sure-footed as the Argotal DH SuperSoft/Kryptotal Re DH Soft pair I was running in the spring, but holy crap those were exhausting to push uphill.

I have been running a Eddie Current Fr (trail/ultra soft) for a couple of months now, replacing Kryptotal Fr (enduro/soft). My go to tire has been Magic Mary (trail/ultra soft) for a while but so far in the loose over hardpack that is the summer riding here, I have been really liking it. The cornering grip feels a bit less then the Mary but the understeer is more recoverable and not as abrupt of a snap when it gains traction back. Definitely better feeling then a Maxxgrip DHF. I haven't tried any Super Soft Contis so I cannot comment on those. 

I had something similar that I noticed on a Schwalbe tire during install. I contacted them and they said its only cosmetic and doesn't affect performance. They also sent me a 50% discount code for anything on their website. Might be worth a try to warranty the tire.

The amount of moaning over Conti DH weight is silly.  For a DH casing, they're quite light, a mullet set of Kryptotals in DH weighs about the same as a DD set of Assegai / DHR.  The Conti Enduro casings are in reality only ~60g lighter each (actual Enduro weights that I've bought run heavy, DHs mostly weigh in a little lighter than mfg spec), which puts them a bit over EXO+ weights.  IMHO, the real reason to go from Conti DH down to Enduro is how they feel.  I know it contradicts what some of the heavier riders running higher pressures say, but to me their DH casings feel quite stiff and transmit a lot of feedback to the hands, especially on the front of the bike.  So on my 3 bikes, I'm using up my remaining DH front tires, and will just run Enduro up front while keeping DH rear because the weight penalty for extra stiffness and protection there is small.  

I did back to back comparison between Enduro Super Soft and Downhill Super Soft Kryptotal Fr and I agree. The Enduro casing is more compliant and less harsh in front. Now that we have the lighter casing super soft option, it makes sense to run it in the front. As for weights you can see what I measured below and my versions had a bit more of a difference. I pedaled Argo DH SS and Krypto DH SS for a full year doing big 1000+M vert days without any complaining. IMO even their heaviest tire rolls better than a DHR2 DD Maxterra.

Kryptotal Re Enduro Soft: 1193g
Kryptotal Fr Endro Super Soft: 1202g
Kryptotal Fr DH Super Soft: 1331g
Argotal DH Super Soft: 1320g

I agree that the conti DH casing feels stiffer than Maxxis DH. I noticed a significant increase in feedback to my hands that I didn’t love going from an Assguy to an Argotal(both DH casing and softest rubber) on the front of my ebike. The Argotal grips far better on my local trails, but I wouldn’t describe it as comfortable. Going forward, I think I’ll only run contis as rears, and MaxxGrip DH or Schwalbe Radial up front. 

The weight penalty isn't huge, especially compared to e.g. Maxxis's 1400g+ DH tires, and comparing DH to Enduro casings wouldn't ever be night and day. But the on-trail difference between a set of Kryptotal Fr/Re tires in Trail Endurance and DH SuperSoft is absolutely massive, both positive and negative, and far more than just the ~200g/wheel weight difference.

Crazy how different riders have such different perspectives. Pushing into a berm the squirm is crazy if I’m running the pressure I use for Maxxis. DH casing for both, same wheel, pressure gauge, bike, trail etc. 

I personally really like the feel of the Conti DH casing, but agree that even though it’s stiffer to me, it requires more pressure than Maxxis or Specialized. I pretty much have to run 28/23 r/f to get them to feel good in berms. I can’t get Schwalbe casings to work for me, I was pushing SDH Tacky Chans to over 32psi in the rear to not get rim pings. It felt the best at 26-27psi but were rim killers at those pressures. 

how heavy are you? a Schwalbe super dh and says at 27psi it's rim killer? either the trails you ride are hucks to pointy rocks only or you're 300lbs

Is it just me or are the radial tyres way better than reviews are letting on? I went from a Hutchinson Griffus to a Magic Mary Radial and I thought I’d upgraded my forks at first, I’m a convert and my friend who races enduro is a convert too. I don’t think any other tyre on the market comes close, except for maybe the new High Roller III, and that still isn’t very close.

The magic is in the chasing, literally,

I agree with that, I’m sticking to them, the 2 rides I’ve done on different tires it was a slip and slide both up and down on the same tracks where I just go with 0 issues

That being said these do slide as well but way less than anything else I’ve tried

I've got a tacky chan on the rear as I don't particularly feel the need for a 3 block middle tread on a rear tyre, I tried a new location that was a bit more hard-pack and not as dusty as my local, and the Tacky was a whole lot more slip happy than the Mary, even running it at lower pressure didn't give it the same composure as the Mary

Mary in the rear is awesome for grip but slow rolling, i never go for full grip in the rear personally, i've used plenty of times a mary in the back for bikepark or sketchy stuff but it's a pain on the ups

Finally some fresh rubber again. The Magic Mary radial tire was pretty hard to find so it seems like it's pretty popular right now. I found one shop who had 1 left, and it cost me about 100 euros and for some reason the customs didn't want any tax for it, so it should've cost more even. 

Anyhow, I wanted to try a new tire combo and sometimes you gotta to do what you gotta do to make that happen. The DHR II on the rear is pretty much toast, and the DHF in the front is ok-ish but I just want to try something not Maxxis for now.

203 on the scales this morning, 210 with gear. I started Saturday with 27/23 in my Spec DH casing tires and was getting loud pings on rocks charging through rock gardens, upped to 29/24 and that cleared up the issue for the rest of the weekend. 

This is one of the trails that is partly to blame for my rim death. The Chute From Hell - EWS Northstar Stage 4 Practice RAW 

Lol enjoy this is exactly the setup I have. Grip for days!

Appreciate all the replies, we're doing our annual month in Whistler shred (tires and trails), and finally taking a break and catching up on this discussion. Left off at son burping the Kryptotal, more sealant and air resolved that, and me thinking I didn't need inserts. Fast foward a few days and the boy put an inch long gash in the sidewall of his Kryptotal. Me, decided to stuff a tube in the fanny pack and literally next run 3 jumps into zone 2 on A-line put a hole in my DHR right above the bead and small dent in the rim. Of course I didn't bother to check my tire pressure before riding that day either.

Son's replacement tire once again was choice of Conti or Maxxgrip DHR. He had a week on the Kryptotal and wear was minimal so went with SS DH again and I did the same based on the claim of better grip than Maxxterra and better wear. We are starting week 3 now, week 2 on the tire, and this morning my son complains about the wear on the Conti. I have to tell him he's crazy, there is minimal wear. This is the same kid that destroyed the tread on a maxxgrip rear in 3 days last year, the only difference is 27.5 last year and 29 this year. He weighs more, rides a lot of hours, faster, a lot of slab time. Also Hayes this year and Saints before. 

As for me, running an insert now but also splitting my time with my 27.5 bike, it's got the insert and Conti SS, and a 29 front and rear bike. I'm new to 29 so besides having to wrap my head around all things 29 I have some interesting tire things going on as well. Nice to be insert free except for running more pressure than I prefer to save my rims. Spent a couple days with a maxxterra Assegai front, too sketchy for me, what a relief to get on brand new maxxgrip version. Rear is a test pilot DHRII 2.5 maxxgrip. Besides it being a pre-production 2.5 I'm speculating that it's either not truly a maxxgrip or it's an attempt at a longer wearing maxxgrip. One thing is no signs of wear, the other is lack of grip. Mullet conversion is next...

Pic of bikes involved.

Yes, I agree that we're hearing a lot of different perspectives on the same tire. If I can expand on what I said earlier, I think it's actually a combination of what others have said.

As a rear tire, I get a lot of squirm and fold from the Conti DH casing is I don't run extra pressure, about 3-5 psi more than I would on a Maxxis DH casing. But as a front tire, it feels wooden and transmits a lot more trail feedback compared to a Maxxis. It still managed to grip fine, I never had sketchy moments, but as a front tire it ended up feeling like someone had cranked up my compression a couple clicks on my fork.

I suspect the wooden feeling I'm getting from the front tire has less to do with the casing (which I think is relatively soft) and more to do with the compound Conti is using on their SS tires. We've heard in this forum that Conti is using harder rubber over the top of softer rubber (the opposite of what most multi-compound tires use), and I think that's probably why the rear SS tire seems to last forever but the front SS tire seems to feel wooden and harsh. I also know the DH team riders are getting special ultra soft compound tires from Conti for racing, which serves as perfect confirmation bias for my theory.

Some quick hits on the Vittoria tires I've played around with over the past couple seasons - all XC / Trail stuff I've ridden on my Honzo & Tallboy. All tires are the graphene / 4C compounds that go with the XC (120 tpi) or Trail (60 tpi) casings. I'm not sure if there's a difference between the compounds on each tire though my assumption is that the XC tires get a harder compound than the trail tires. I've got essentially no experience in actual muddy conditions as our trails aren't able to be ridden in the wet. 

Mezcal XC (2.6" 120 tpi) - I think this is a fantastic tire as long as you set expectations appropriately. FWIW I only used this as a rear tire on my hardtail. Rolls super well, brakes and corners fine for an XC tire. A good comp would be an Ikon but I think this has better traction in corners. I spent a week in Italy flipping back and forth between hating how much I was sliding around on loose and moderately steep trails and being thankful for the tire on the steep climbs.

Barzo XC (2.6" 120 tpi) - used as front tire on my Honzo. Rolls fine and has decent cornering grip for an XC tire. Braking traction is not good, and I don't see a reason to run this tire except maybe in soft mud XC riding, though I never actually used it for that. It's a pretty similar tire to the old Forekaster though I don't think that's a compliment. 

Both the 120tpi tires required 30psi to not roll the casing constantly, which I hate. I'm sure the thin casing reduces rolling resistance, so that may be a tradeoff that's worth it for you. With that said, both tires held up and I never got a flat while running them (30 psi certainly helps here though). I was able to run my normal 24-25 psi in the 60 tpi tires without issue.

Syerra Trail (2.4" 60 tpi) - Kind of a niche tire, just a touch more traction and rolling resistance than a true XC tire. I think this makes sense as a front tire, less so in the rear when you could run an actual XC tire if you don't care about traction or a nobbier tire with minimal sacrifice in rolling resistance. This may sound dumb, but the only thing I really disliked about this tire was that it only came in black (when all the other tires have grey sidewalls) and there's a giant red hot patch that I sharpied over.

Agarro Trail (2.35 60 tpi) - Basically a grey colored Rekon, which is a tire I really like. You can just copy / paste Rekon reviews here.

Martello Trail (2.4" 60 tpi) - I don't have a ton of time on this tire yet on the front of my Tallboy, but it's certainly a viably option. It's a little too much tire for most my local trails (which are not steep) but would be at home somewhere with a bit more grade as a front tire for a short travel bike like my Tallboy or as a rear tire on a 140-150mm travel bike. You won't confuse it with real DH treads like the Kryptotal or Assegai, particularly in braking traction, though it's still adequate. Cornering traction breaks away somewhat predictably - it's not like you're locked then a moment later the front wheel is gone - again it won't be confused with a DH tread. I haven't ridden this in mud, but with how many closely spaced nobs there are there's no way this tire can clear mud well. For a Maxxis comparison, I think it slots in around the Dissector in terms of traction, thought it behaves a bit differently due to the transition nobs. I still haven't ridden the new Forekaster though I'd be curious to see how the traction & rolling resistance compares.

Having lots of fun playing with tires now that I can can vary from my race setup. On the Sentinel, I’ve swapped from the Conti DH (agree with @TEAMROBOT that they feel kinda wooden in the front) to Radial Albert 2.6 US front and Albert 2.5 soft in the rear. They seem to roll faster, grip better, and add a coil-like feel to the bike that I wasn’t entirely expecting when hitting square edges or root balls. So far, my only gripe is that the 2.6 Albert doesn’t come in Trail casing. The Gravity version is probably unnecessary for me, but the deeper lugs and wider spacing of the 2.6 seem like a better front tire option than the 2.5. I’m also not having issues with squirm on landings or in corners like some are, which maybe has to do with running the stiffer casing.

On the SST, I swapped my front WTB Macro fast rolling to the high grip version of the same tire. Fast rolling Macros front and rear felt just a hair sketchy when committing to corners, but it feels perfectly dialed with the increased traction up front - just a hoot on fast XC-oriented stuff. I also have WTBs new Peacekeeper to try, which may be a great complement for a Vigilante on the heavier wheelset.

Has anyone run a soft magic Mary radial in the rear yet? Wasn’t super happy with the soft Albert in the rear for loose steep stuff so I switched to a soft tacky Chan which is fine, but I do miss the radials.

Thanks for sharing your experience and insight. If you like the Rekon, I would highly recommend trying out the updated Forekaster when you get the chance. To me it corners, brakes, and climbs noticeably better than the Rekon without giving up much (anything?) in rolling speed. 

I've been running it on the rear of my 130/140 bike with something new we're cooking up on the front. It's great for a speed-focused trail bike. 

Good stuff, glad you mentioned the front tire info, not keen on experimenting with my front tire besides tread to suit terrain. I'm not gnarly enough to justify a dh casing up front since DD came out. Discussing this with my son and he just says "I just run such high pressure that all my tires feel wooden". 🤪

Good luck finding a 29 DHR II maxxterra 2.5 DH here in Whistler. I ordered one before the trip but it ended up on the boat and didn't arrive in time. Bummed with the hole above the bead on my 27.5 version of the 2.5 DH. Reminded me of how I got one ride out of a WTB Verdict on the front on the version before they added the protection, same kind of hole as I got on 2.5 DHR. I like that Verdict up front for the home looseness but hoping that the new Shorty 3 (Mobster!?) will be my next tire.

I only rode the supertrail variant but it will surely have more grip than the Albert. The question is if you like the rolling resistance. On the ebike it's no problem.