I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some...
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some puncture protection and rolling resistance values: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-mtb-tire-in-review/
I like how reading this thread and these type of reviews make me wonder how I survive riding on lighter casings when everyone recommends gravity stuff ! A general lack of rocks must help...
If you don't have slabs, sharp rocks, enormous drops, and don't ride park often, then anything above an enduro casing is a waste of energy IMHO. I can't stand my gravity tires for 99% of what and when I ride. I'll use them for the one day a year I ride park.
You bridge two worlds with enduro casings: light enough to not sap your energy on a long climb, tough enough to handle some proper jank, grippy enough to try pushing your limits.
I've been riding my whole life and the only punctures and flats I've ever gotten were in Nevada and it was because those stupid goat-head thorns were puncturing the sidewalls.
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some...
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some puncture protection and rolling resistance values: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-mtb-tire-in-review/
I like how reading this thread and these type of reviews make me wonder how I survive riding on lighter casings when everyone recommends gravity stuff ! A general lack of rocks must help...
Kind of a bummer that they didn't adjust the Radial casing on the puncture resistance. If you run a 24 psi vs 28 psi, its likely going to have better puncture protection.
I say this because the radial had the worse scores on the puncture resistance with the albert trail pro being 9%, which is less than an Exo casing (12).
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some...
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some puncture protection and rolling resistance values: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-mtb-tire-in-review/
I like how reading this thread and these type of reviews make me wonder how I survive riding on lighter casings when everyone recommends gravity stuff ! A general lack of rocks must help...
If you don't have slabs, sharp rocks, enormous drops, and don't ride park often, then anything above an enduro casing is a waste of energy IMHO...
If you don't have slabs, sharp rocks, enormous drops, and don't ride park often, then anything above an enduro casing is a waste of energy IMHO. I can't stand my gravity tires for 99% of what and when I ride. I'll use them for the one day a year I ride park.
You bridge two worlds with enduro casings: light enough to not sap your energy on a long climb, tough enough to handle some proper jank, grippy enough to try pushing your limits.
I've been riding my whole life and the only punctures and flats I've ever gotten were in Nevada and it was because those stupid goat-head thorns were puncturing the sidewalls.
The right casing for terrain, weight, and riding style is really important. An often under looked factor is tire pressure. This probably doesn't apply to most folks in this thread, but the gen pop frequently has unrealistic expectations of what tires should be able to do. Such as riding XC casing tires at 18-22 PSI on the front range of Colorado when they're a clydesdale, and then surprised Pikachu face when they pinch flat.
I haven’t ridden any radials yet and looking at there lineup, I’m surprised more people aren’t asking for the Big Betty in radial. Is the Tacky Chan the better option as they are similar in the lineup?
I haven’t ridden any radials yet and looking at there lineup, I’m surprised more people aren’t asking for the Big Betty in radial. Is the Tacky...
I haven’t ridden any radials yet and looking at there lineup, I’m surprised more people aren’t asking for the Big Betty in radial. Is the Tacky Chan the better option as they are similar in the lineup?
It rolls better and it’s more predictable, that’s why, but sad news
I haven’t ridden any radials yet and looking at there lineup, I’m surprised more people aren’t asking for the Big Betty in radial. Is the Tacky...
I haven’t ridden any radials yet and looking at there lineup, I’m surprised more people aren’t asking for the Big Betty in radial. Is the Tacky Chan the better option as they are similar in the lineup?
It rolls better and it’s more predictable, that’s why, but sad news
It rolls better and it’s more predictable, that’s why, but sad news
Damn thing is not uploading the picture, well, Schwalbe says that “there are no plans to include the Tachy Chan with the Radial Carcass in the range at the moment”
Anyone have thoughts on Goodyear's Newton or Wrangler? They seem popular in the southern hemisphere for some reason; more than a few times I've seen MTB content in NZ, AU, or S. America riding Goodyears.
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some...
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some puncture protection and rolling resistance values: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-mtb-tire-in-review/
I like how reading this thread and these type of reviews make me wonder how I survive riding on lighter casings when everyone recommends gravity stuff ! A general lack of rocks must help...
Wow the lack of puncture protection on both the Trail Pro and Gravity Pro radials compared to regular tires is pretty astounding. Maybe this is the reason we're not seeing rear-specific radials at the moment?
Got a chance to try Tacky Chans front and rear in Morzine this week and did not enjoy the amount of lean they took to hooik up. (even on bike park trails. That being said, using one as a rear would be a great "training tool" to keep your technique in check, much like going from clips back to flats from time to time. I'm still all in for a radial Hans Dampf for my downcountry bike.
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some...
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some puncture protection and rolling resistance values: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-mtb-tire-in-review/
I like how reading this thread and these type of reviews make me wonder how I survive riding on lighter casings when everyone recommends gravity stuff ! A general lack of rocks must help...
Wow the lack of puncture protection on both the Trail Pro and Gravity Pro radials compared to regular tires is pretty astounding. Maybe this is the...
Wow the lack of puncture protection on both the Trail Pro and Gravity Pro radials compared to regular tires is pretty astounding. Maybe this is the reason we're not seeing rear-specific radials at the moment?
Got a chance to try Tacky Chans front and rear in Morzine this week and did not enjoy the amount of lean they took to hooik up. (even on bike park trails. That being said, using one as a rear would be a great "training tool" to keep your technique in check, much like going from clips back to flats from time to time. I'm still all in for a radial Hans Dampf for my downcountry bike.
I think the flaw in that test is that they were all tested at the same PSI. It would be interesting to know how much puncture protection you gain from 1-5 PSI added to a tire. Since most people are running radials 3-5psi higher, you'd expect it to "even out" a bit the protection I'd guess, but hard to have definitive metrics on it.
I'm been using them for 6 months and haven't punctured any less or more. Puncturing seems pretty arbitrary sometimes and a difficult thing to test with so many variable in real life. I've gotten flats in areas I've ridden through trails 100x's no problem but because a rock recently got kicked onto the trail I got a flat. I really wouldn't let this one test deter anyone from any tire.
With every company having a different casing and name, having an unbiased data based test to show puncture resistance would be great. I would agree with you that these numbers don't necessarily match my experience, when I've had better luck with Continental Enduro vs Exo+ although they show the same picture resistance.
I just would love to have data to tell me a Spec Grid Trail = Continental Enduro = Schwalbe Trail Pro, etc. It makes switching brands and trying new much less $.
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The number of basically un-ramped knobs on the Alberts, combined with the more compliant casing, seems to be a perfect recipe for increased drag, even at quite high pressures. The Contis roll noticeably faster, and have a (to me) much more comfortable sensation of leaning and then "catching" in the corners, with an easily available controlled slide, vs the extremely grippy yet somehow vague feeling of the Alberts.
Comparing Conti to Conti, it's extremely curious how much faster the Enduro Argotal/Kryptotal Re feel vs the DH Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal. I would think that tread pattern would trump casing in this instance, but the Enduro casing completely eliminated the sensation of drag I felt running the DH tires, despite having much more aggressive knobs. The Argotal is a very cool tire - at a glance, I would think that the tall knobs and wide 2-2 spacing would make them vague on hardpack, but the knobs are so well supported and put so much rubber on the ground that it feels more similar to the Butcher (one of my favorite tires). The taller center knobs also give it a slightly more "round" feel in the corners than the spiky look would initially suggest.
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The...
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The number of basically un-ramped knobs on the Alberts, combined with the more compliant casing, seems to be a perfect recipe for increased drag, even at quite high pressures. The Contis roll noticeably faster, and have a (to me) much more comfortable sensation of leaning and then "catching" in the corners, with an easily available controlled slide, vs the extremely grippy yet somehow vague feeling of the Alberts.
Comparing Conti to Conti, it's extremely curious how much faster the Enduro Argotal/Kryptotal Re feel vs the DH Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal. I would think that tread pattern would trump casing in this instance, but the Enduro casing completely eliminated the sensation of drag I felt running the DH tires, despite having much more aggressive knobs. The Argotal is a very cool tire - at a glance, I would think that the tall knobs and wide 2-2 spacing would make them vague on hardpack, but the knobs are so well supported and put so much rubber on the ground that it feels more similar to the Butcher (one of my favorite tires). The taller center knobs also give it a slightly more "round" feel in the corners than the spiky look would initially suggest.
very surprised to hear, i switched for one ride as i was on borrowed wheels to the Krypto enduro fr/re and it was a shit show, sliding both up and down where with the radials i was just on rails, and speed wise i found the contis to be slower since i had to go slower not to slide everywhere
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The...
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The number of basically un-ramped knobs on the Alberts, combined with the more compliant casing, seems to be a perfect recipe for increased drag, even at quite high pressures. The Contis roll noticeably faster, and have a (to me) much more comfortable sensation of leaning and then "catching" in the corners, with an easily available controlled slide, vs the extremely grippy yet somehow vague feeling of the Alberts.
Comparing Conti to Conti, it's extremely curious how much faster the Enduro Argotal/Kryptotal Re feel vs the DH Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal. I would think that tread pattern would trump casing in this instance, but the Enduro casing completely eliminated the sensation of drag I felt running the DH tires, despite having much more aggressive knobs. The Argotal is a very cool tire - at a glance, I would think that the tall knobs and wide 2-2 spacing would make them vague on hardpack, but the knobs are so well supported and put so much rubber on the ground that it feels more similar to the Butcher (one of my favorite tires). The taller center knobs also give it a slightly more "round" feel in the corners than the spiky look would initially suggest.
very surprised to hear, i switched for one ride as i was on borrowed wheels to the Krypto enduro fr/re and it was a shit show...
very surprised to hear, i switched for one ride as i was on borrowed wheels to the Krypto enduro fr/re and it was a shit show, sliding both up and down where with the radials i was just on rails, and speed wise i found the contis to be slower since i had to go slower not to slide everywhere
Doesn’t make any sense to me either! I tried all kinds of pressures on both casings for the Radials and could never get them to feel good in corners (though the Gravity version felt sublime over chattery stuff). I was also surprised how much I hated the DH casing Contis, given all the positive reception that variant in particular got. I will say that the Kryptotal Fr tread pattern seems flawed somehow, while the Argotal is an interesting best-of-both-worlds of the Hillbilly and Butcher for me.
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The...
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The number of basically un-ramped knobs on the Alberts, combined with the more compliant casing, seems to be a perfect recipe for increased drag, even at quite high pressures. The Contis roll noticeably faster, and have a (to me) much more comfortable sensation of leaning and then "catching" in the corners, with an easily available controlled slide, vs the extremely grippy yet somehow vague feeling of the Alberts.
Comparing Conti to Conti, it's extremely curious how much faster the Enduro Argotal/Kryptotal Re feel vs the DH Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal. I would think that tread pattern would trump casing in this instance, but the Enduro casing completely eliminated the sensation of drag I felt running the DH tires, despite having much more aggressive knobs. The Argotal is a very cool tire - at a glance, I would think that the tall knobs and wide 2-2 spacing would make them vague on hardpack, but the knobs are so well supported and put so much rubber on the ground that it feels more similar to the Butcher (one of my favorite tires). The taller center knobs also give it a slightly more "round" feel in the corners than the spiky look would initially suggest.
very surprised to hear, i switched for one ride as i was on borrowed wheels to the Krypto enduro fr/re and it was a shit show...
very surprised to hear, i switched for one ride as i was on borrowed wheels to the Krypto enduro fr/re and it was a shit show, sliding both up and down where with the radials i was just on rails, and speed wise i found the contis to be slower since i had to go slower not to slide everywhere
Doesn’t make any sense to me either! I tried all kinds of pressures on both casings for the Radials and could never get them to feel...
Doesn’t make any sense to me either! I tried all kinds of pressures on both casings for the Radials and could never get them to feel good in corners (though the Gravity version felt sublime over chattery stuff). I was also surprised how much I hated the DH casing Contis, given all the positive reception that variant in particular got. I will say that the Kryptotal Fr tread pattern seems flawed somehow, while the Argotal is an interesting best-of-both-worlds of the Hillbilly and Butcher for me.
I guess it depends a lot on riding style as well 🧐
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some...
I'm sure this will get as much debate as their brake reviews, but the germans over at enduro-mtb have released a big tire review with some puncture protection and rolling resistance values: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-mtb-tire-in-review/
I like how reading this thread and these type of reviews make me wonder how I survive riding on lighter casings when everyone recommends gravity stuff ! A general lack of rocks must help...
Wow the lack of puncture protection on both the Trail Pro and Gravity Pro radials compared to regular tires is pretty astounding. Maybe this is the...
Wow the lack of puncture protection on both the Trail Pro and Gravity Pro radials compared to regular tires is pretty astounding. Maybe this is the reason we're not seeing rear-specific radials at the moment?
Got a chance to try Tacky Chans front and rear in Morzine this week and did not enjoy the amount of lean they took to hooik up. (even on bike park trails. That being said, using one as a rear would be a great "training tool" to keep your technique in check, much like going from clips back to flats from time to time. I'm still all in for a radial Hans Dampf for my downcountry bike.
I think the flaw in that test is that they were all tested at the same PSI. It would be interesting to know how much puncture...
I think the flaw in that test is that they were all tested at the same PSI. It would be interesting to know how much puncture protection you gain from 1-5 PSI added to a tire. Since most people are running radials 3-5psi higher, you'd expect it to "even out" a bit the protection I'd guess, but hard to have definitive metrics on it.
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty much the casings job within acceptable pressures. I wish they would have tested this in the article. Even considering the pressure differences it’s still surprising as the radial casings (Trail Pro, Gravity Pro) are heavier than their regular counterparts. (Super Trail, Super Gravity)
So sorry for not keeping up with this thread, but I tried and failed. Can someone help me out?
is it worth putting sawdust in my tubless fluid? I don't have easy access to rubber shavings.
My favorite tire has been the DHR II for a few years, but this spring on the SL ebike I replaced my rear tire with Delium's "Rugged" and its been great. It may or may not be wearing faster than a Maxxis, its a bit early to tell. But I've loved it. Now I need to replace the front, and if I go with another Delium instead of a Radial will it be like riding a bike with a 69 HTA? Will I wash out and crash in every corner? Or will I have to run such low pressures to get grip I'll snake bite thru my Tannus?
I'm back from a substantial riding vacation and catching up on things. Going to respond to a few things in this post at once.
re: trail bike tires: I really do like the forekaster front, recon rear combo for my trail bike. I use that combo quite a bit for the XC Marathon style events that I do. My only complaint, is that I do tend to go through the rekon a bit faster then I would like when used as a rear in loose conditions where I end up drifting the back into catch berms. Recently, I've gone to just running a forekaster front/rear and while it's slightly slower rolling initially then the rekon, I think it's better long term and rolls plenty fast once it has 4-5 rides of wear on it. I do wish that I could get an EXO+ with silkworm or some sort of tread protection with both the forekaster/rekon. I have punched holes through the tread area on both of these in downieville and once in the santa ana mountains. They hold up well in general, particularly the sidewalls, but in sharp rocks I find them pretty vulnerable in the tread area.
re: DH/MT 2.5 DHR2: I just got back from my annual whistler trip. Typically, I would run a dh/mt 2.4 dhr2 in back and a dd/mg assegai in front. This year, I couldn't find any 2.4"s in stock, so I just rolled with the 2.5. I was a bit bummed because I typically find that the 2.4"s in back track a bit better in berms and are a bit more fun in terms of schralping corners. To my surprise, the 2.5 DH DHR2 in back was fantastic and was an overall improvement in performance, without giving up anything noticeable in high speed bike parky stuff. I ran 27 psi rear, 25 psi front with no inserts and had minimal rim strikes. Also, maybe I was just riding better than normal and staying off the brakes... but I swear that the 2.5" showed better wear after the 6 park days then I usually get.
One other change is that this year I ran no inset in back on my park bike. I think that the combination of the no insert, and additional air volume of the 2.5" was a better performing and feeling tire then the 2.4" with an insert. I honestly might be on a bit of an insert hiatus as I'm really liking the linear feel of the tires without the inserts. I'm firmly in the camp now that if you can't run low enough tire pressures to leverage an insert as adding performance/compliance/support to the tire (I'd say that this is 24psi and less) then you're better off without the insert.
I love trying new tires and I cannot wait for the upcoming maxxis releases. I just put a high roller 3 on the front of my bike for the completely blown out end of summer conditions we've got ramping up here in southern california. Only one ride in, but I'm already finding it's cutting through the dust/loose conditions instead of skating over to the top. So far so good.
So sorry for not keeping up with this thread, but I tried and failed. Can someone help me out? is it worth putting sawdust in my tubless...
So sorry for not keeping up with this thread, but I tried and failed. Can someone help me out?
is it worth putting sawdust in my tubless fluid? I don't have easy access to rubber shavings.
My favorite tire has been the DHR II for a few years, but this spring on the SL ebike I replaced my rear tire with Delium's "Rugged" and its been great. It may or may not be wearing faster than a Maxxis, its a bit early to tell. But I've loved it. Now I need to replace the front, and if I go with another Delium instead of a Radial will it be like riding a bike with a 69 HTA? Will I wash out and crash in every corner? Or will I have to run such low pressures to get grip I'll snake bite thru my Tannus?
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier...
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my...
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my trail bike if I am careful, I cant say the same about EXO+. I've been told, from a pretty reliable source, that the T9 is the same across all the tires. What makes the difference is the base rubber durometer and how much of the T9 is laid on top of the base compound. Everyone is using a harder/stiffer base rubber for support and the ratio of base to cap, T9 in this case, can have a very large influence in how the knobs flex and deform. From my own squish testing in the garage, the new butchers have more T9 and less base like the Cannibals as a way to generate more grip. As a result, they had to make the knobs physically much larger to withstand the resulting deformation of a bike being pushed through a corner. *The last two sentences are pure theory so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe we can get some tire brand experts to chime in...
Isn't Conti's approach the exact opposite, soft innards and harder wearing outside layer?
Well just wanted to share some results on some tire durometer measurements that I have collected of some of the more popular tires in my collection.
Method: All tires were measured while sitting on a flat plate of steel to provide equal and consistent backing support. Nothing was measured mounted. I measured the Maxxis brand new out of the box and again after this weekend's Boondocks race at NorthStar, no change was detectable in the results, so I just added the miles that I was at after measuring yesterday. All measurements were an average of 3. The hysteresis of the rubber and the siping in the tread make it tricky to get consistent results, the conti rubber would take about 1-3 seconds to "settle" into its measurement, starting off about 3-7a harder than its final result, while the Maxxis would settle instantly.
I forgot to note but the butcher being measured are the brand new 2025 versions. I have some older ones that I haven't brought myself to toss yet, they are about 16% harder than the relatively new ones, 50a vs 43a. I was pretty surprised to see the measurement differences as the T9 and MaxxGrip feel pretty similar with the 'ol nail test, less than the 10% difference in stiffness that is measured.
Buuutttt, to really cap it all off, Conti is using a softer base rubber over a harder cap, at least from what I can measure with the Super Soft tire. I couldnt measure a meaningful difference in the soft rubber compound. The caveat of this test is the reality that these are not all brand-new tires, rubber will harden over time so I would take the absolute numbers with a grain of salt, with the exception of the MaxxGrip and the T9 Butchers. I have a buddy who is about to mount a brand new set of KRF and Argotal DH SS's on his bike for N* this weekend, I'll get some results of those and update the chart next week. Hope some of you tire nerds find any use/interest in this. Its fun for me as when I run out of talent I rely on setup to try and get me the rest of the way lol.
I managed to go somewhere with proper tech today. My opinion of the radials just keeps getting better and better. Also had a ride at the weekend with so much traction, I hit a sand pit and it felt like I had a motor in my front hub, even when I was two wheel drifting it was composed and comfortable.
The tech today was so good, it helped that I was borrowing the Ohlins coil off my bro's bike, but even with all the rocks and roots and stuff I never felt like my front was losing it, I had a couple times where my rear was skipping around, but it's not as sketchy when your front wheel is on rails.
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty...
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty much the casings job within acceptable pressures. I wish they would have tested this in the article. Even considering the pressure differences it’s still surprising as the radial casings (Trail Pro, Gravity Pro) are heavier than their regular counterparts. (Super Trail, Super Gravity)
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid pinch flats on any given tire.
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty...
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty much the casings job within acceptable pressures. I wish they would have tested this in the article. Even considering the pressure differences it’s still surprising as the radial casings (Trail Pro, Gravity Pro) are heavier than their regular counterparts. (Super Trail, Super Gravity)
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid...
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid pinch flats on any given tire.
Just my own 2c but I’ve not punctured a tire in probably 20+years, knock on 🪵. But I don’t mess with less than DH type casings for the most part anymore. Spend a few years pedaling 40+lb bikes everywhere and you’ll feel like your riding an ebike every time you jump onto a trail bike with sub 1200g tires. But whatever 35psi in my minions…. 😆
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty...
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty much the casings job within acceptable pressures. I wish they would have tested this in the article. Even considering the pressure differences it’s still surprising as the radial casings (Trail Pro, Gravity Pro) are heavier than their regular counterparts. (Super Trail, Super Gravity)
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid...
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid pinch flats on any given tire.
I’m talking about punctures directly on the tread, not pinch flats. The test in the Enduro article was measuring punctures. Of course more air is more pinch resistant but my question is a different one. Is there really a huge difference between rolling over a razor sharp rock at 26psi or 30psi?
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty...
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty much the casings job within acceptable pressures. I wish they would have tested this in the article. Even considering the pressure differences it’s still surprising as the radial casings (Trail Pro, Gravity Pro) are heavier than their regular counterparts. (Super Trail, Super Gravity)
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid...
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid pinch flats on any given tire.
I’m talking about punctures directly on the tread, not pinch flats. The test in the Enduro article was measuring punctures. Of course more air is more...
I’m talking about punctures directly on the tread, not pinch flats. The test in the Enduro article was measuring punctures. Of course more air is more pinch resistant but my question is a different one. Is there really a huge difference between rolling over a razor sharp rock at 26psi or 30psi?
In theory, lower air pressure (or more supple and flexible casing) in a tire is less likely to be cut since it lets the tire conform and spread the load over a larger area of tire.
I’m talking about punctures directly on the tread, not pinch flats. The test in the Enduro article was measuring punctures. Of course more air is more...
I’m talking about punctures directly on the tread, not pinch flats. The test in the Enduro article was measuring punctures. Of course more air is more pinch resistant but my question is a different one. Is there really a huge difference between rolling over a razor sharp rock at 26psi or 30psi?
Yeah, if you're talking about center tread punctures, in that case lower pressure is better like notthatbryan said. Imagine poking an overinflated balloon with a pen and then poking an underinflated balloon. More pressure is going to stretch out the the balloon and hold the surface under tension, making cuts easier.
Sorry, I didn't open the Enduro Mag test, I assumed "puncture resistance" referred to pinch flats, as those are 90% of the flats I see in the wild.
So once again I’m back to being baffled that the radials with the same pressure as the traditional tires had far less puncture resistance, since they would have even more area to spread the load over. Maybe the testing method was flawed? I’m going mental over this because I’ve just swapped the front tire on my enduro bike from a Conti Kyrptotal F Enduro to the Magic Mary Trail Pro Radial. I’ve not had much time on the radial and only really in slow wet conditions but I do ride in fast dry rocky areas where anything called “trail” casing is asking for punctures.
If you don't have slabs, sharp rocks, enormous drops, and don't ride park often, then anything above an enduro casing is a waste of energy IMHO. I can't stand my gravity tires for 99% of what and when I ride. I'll use them for the one day a year I ride park.
You bridge two worlds with enduro casings: light enough to not sap your energy on a long climb, tough enough to handle some proper jank, grippy enough to try pushing your limits.
I've been riding my whole life and the only punctures and flats I've ever gotten were in Nevada and it was because those stupid goat-head thorns were puncturing the sidewalls.
Kind of a bummer that they didn't adjust the Radial casing on the puncture resistance. If you run a 24 psi vs 28 psi, its likely going to have better puncture protection.
I say this because the radial had the worse scores on the puncture resistance with the albert trail pro being 9%, which is less than an Exo casing (12).
The right casing for terrain, weight, and riding style is really important. An often under looked factor is tire pressure. This probably doesn't apply to most folks in this thread, but the gen pop frequently has unrealistic expectations of what tires should be able to do. Such as riding XC casing tires at 18-22 PSI on the front range of Colorado when they're a clydesdale, and then surprised Pikachu face when they pinch flat.
I haven’t ridden any radials yet and looking at there lineup, I’m surprised more people aren’t asking for the Big Betty in radial. Is the Tacky Chan the better option as they are similar in the lineup?
It rolls better and it’s more predictable, that’s why, but sad news
Damn thing is not uploading the picture, well, Schwalbe says that “there are no plans to include the Tachy Chan with the Radial Carcass in the range at the moment”
It seems dumb to me given the request but…
Do people actually like the Big Betty for other applications than DH? For me, it's a terrible rear tire if you need to pedal.
Anyone have thoughts on Goodyear's Newton or Wrangler? They seem popular in the southern hemisphere for some reason; more than a few times I've seen MTB content in NZ, AU, or S. America riding Goodyears.
Wow the lack of puncture protection on both the Trail Pro and Gravity Pro radials compared to regular tires is pretty astounding. Maybe this is the reason we're not seeing rear-specific radials at the moment?
Got a chance to try Tacky Chans front and rear in Morzine this week and did not enjoy the amount of lean they took to hooik up. (even on bike park trails. That being said, using one as a rear would be a great "training tool" to keep your technique in check, much like going from clips back to flats from time to time. I'm still all in for a radial Hans Dampf for my downcountry bike.
I think the flaw in that test is that they were all tested at the same PSI. It would be interesting to know how much puncture protection you gain from 1-5 PSI added to a tire. Since most people are running radials 3-5psi higher, you'd expect it to "even out" a bit the protection I'd guess, but hard to have definitive metrics on it.
I'm been using them for 6 months and haven't punctured any less or more. Puncturing seems pretty arbitrary sometimes and a difficult thing to test with so many variable in real life. I've gotten flats in areas I've ridden through trails 100x's no problem but because a rock recently got kicked onto the trail I got a flat. I really wouldn't let this one test deter anyone from any tire.
With every company having a different casing and name, having an unbiased data based test to show puncture resistance would be great. I would agree with you that these numbers don't necessarily match my experience, when I've had better luck with Continental Enduro vs Exo+ although they show the same picture resistance.
I just would love to have data to tell me a Spec Grid Trail = Continental Enduro = Schwalbe Trail Pro, etc. It makes switching brands and trying new much less $.
I installed the Enduro casing Argotal/Kryptotal on my Sentinel today, and it instantly felt better than either the Gravity or Trail radials in every regard. The number of basically un-ramped knobs on the Alberts, combined with the more compliant casing, seems to be a perfect recipe for increased drag, even at quite high pressures. The Contis roll noticeably faster, and have a (to me) much more comfortable sensation of leaning and then "catching" in the corners, with an easily available controlled slide, vs the extremely grippy yet somehow vague feeling of the Alberts.
Comparing Conti to Conti, it's extremely curious how much faster the Enduro Argotal/Kryptotal Re feel vs the DH Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal. I would think that tread pattern would trump casing in this instance, but the Enduro casing completely eliminated the sensation of drag I felt running the DH tires, despite having much more aggressive knobs. The Argotal is a very cool tire - at a glance, I would think that the tall knobs and wide 2-2 spacing would make them vague on hardpack, but the knobs are so well supported and put so much rubber on the ground that it feels more similar to the Butcher (one of my favorite tires). The taller center knobs also give it a slightly more "round" feel in the corners than the spiky look would initially suggest.
very surprised to hear, i switched for one ride as i was on borrowed wheels to the Krypto enduro fr/re and it was a shit show, sliding both up and down where with the radials i was just on rails, and speed wise i found the contis to be slower since i had to go slower not to slide everywhere
Doesn’t make any sense to me either! I tried all kinds of pressures on both casings for the Radials and could never get them to feel good in corners (though the Gravity version felt sublime over chattery stuff). I was also surprised how much I hated the DH casing Contis, given all the positive reception that variant in particular got. I will say that the Kryptotal Fr tread pattern seems flawed somehow, while the Argotal is an interesting best-of-both-worlds of the Hillbilly and Butcher for me.
I guess it depends a lot on riding style as well 🧐
Yeah I was thinking that too but how much does pressure/contact patch really affect puncture resistance? My bro-science thinking says minimally and puncture resistance is pretty much the casings job within acceptable pressures. I wish they would have tested this in the article. Even considering the pressure differences it’s still surprising as the radial casings (Trail Pro, Gravity Pro) are heavier than their regular counterparts. (Super Trail, Super Gravity)
So sorry for not keeping up with this thread, but I tried and failed. Can someone help me out?
is it worth putting sawdust in my tubless fluid? I don't have easy access to rubber shavings.
My favorite tire has been the DHR II for a few years, but this spring on the SL ebike I replaced my rear tire with Delium's "Rugged" and its been great. It may or may not be wearing faster than a Maxxis, its a bit early to tell. But I've loved it. Now I need to replace the front, and if I go with another Delium instead of a Radial will it be like riding a bike with a 69 HTA? Will I wash out and crash in every corner? Or will I have to run such low pressures to get grip I'll snake bite thru my Tannus?
I'm back from a substantial riding vacation and catching up on things. Going to respond to a few things in this post at once.
re: trail bike tires: I really do like the forekaster front, recon rear combo for my trail bike. I use that combo quite a bit for the XC Marathon style events that I do. My only complaint, is that I do tend to go through the rekon a bit faster then I would like when used as a rear in loose conditions where I end up drifting the back into catch berms. Recently, I've gone to just running a forekaster front/rear and while it's slightly slower rolling initially then the rekon, I think it's better long term and rolls plenty fast once it has 4-5 rides of wear on it. I do wish that I could get an EXO+ with silkworm or some sort of tread protection with both the forekaster/rekon. I have punched holes through the tread area on both of these in downieville and once in the santa ana mountains. They hold up well in general, particularly the sidewalls, but in sharp rocks I find them pretty vulnerable in the tread area.
re: DH/MT 2.5 DHR2: I just got back from my annual whistler trip. Typically, I would run a dh/mt 2.4 dhr2 in back and a dd/mg assegai in front. This year, I couldn't find any 2.4"s in stock, so I just rolled with the 2.5. I was a bit bummed because I typically find that the 2.4"s in back track a bit better in berms and are a bit more fun in terms of schralping corners. To my surprise, the 2.5 DH DHR2 in back was fantastic and was an overall improvement in performance, without giving up anything noticeable in high speed bike parky stuff. I ran 27 psi rear, 25 psi front with no inserts and had minimal rim strikes. Also, maybe I was just riding better than normal and staying off the brakes... but I swear that the 2.5" showed better wear after the 6 park days then I usually get.
One other change is that this year I ran no inset in back on my park bike. I think that the combination of the no insert, and additional air volume of the 2.5" was a better performing and feeling tire then the 2.4" with an insert. I honestly might be on a bit of an insert hiatus as I'm really liking the linear feel of the tires without the inserts. I'm firmly in the camp now that if you can't run low enough tire pressures to leverage an insert as adding performance/compliance/support to the tire (I'd say that this is 24psi and less) then you're better off without the insert.
I love trying new tires and I cannot wait for the upcoming maxxis releases. I just put a high roller 3 on the front of my bike for the completely blown out end of summer conditions we've got ramping up here in southern california. Only one ride in, but I'm already finding it's cutting through the dust/loose conditions instead of skating over to the top. So far so good.
Sawdust, cornmeal, beard clippings etc
Any of those will work 😎
Well just wanted to share some results on some tire durometer measurements that I have collected of some of the more popular tires in my collection.
Method: All tires were measured while sitting on a flat plate of steel to provide equal and consistent backing support. Nothing was measured mounted. I measured the Maxxis brand new out of the box and again after this weekend's Boondocks race at NorthStar, no change was detectable in the results, so I just added the miles that I was at after measuring yesterday. All measurements were an average of 3. The hysteresis of the rubber and the siping in the tread make it tricky to get consistent results, the conti rubber would take about 1-3 seconds to "settle" into its measurement, starting off about 3-7a harder than its final result, while the Maxxis would settle instantly.
I forgot to note but the butcher being measured are the brand new 2025 versions. I have some older ones that I haven't brought myself to toss yet, they are about 16% harder than the relatively new ones, 50a vs 43a. I was pretty surprised to see the measurement differences as the T9 and MaxxGrip feel pretty similar with the 'ol nail test, less than the 10% difference in stiffness that is measured.
Buuutttt, to really cap it all off, Conti is using a softer base rubber over a harder cap, at least from what I can measure with the Super Soft tire. I couldnt measure a meaningful difference in the soft rubber compound. The caveat of this test is the reality that these are not all brand-new tires, rubber will harden over time so I would take the absolute numbers with a grain of salt, with the exception of the MaxxGrip and the T9 Butchers. I have a buddy who is about to mount a brand new set of KRF and Argotal DH SS's on his bike for N* this weekend, I'll get some results of those and update the chart next week. Hope some of you tire nerds find any use/interest in this. Its fun for me as when I run out of talent I rely on setup to try and get me the rest of the way lol.
Please do some Schwalbe Radials next.
I managed to go somewhere with proper tech today. My opinion of the radials just keeps getting better and better. Also had a ride at the weekend with so much traction, I hit a sand pit and it felt like I had a motor in my front hub, even when I was two wheel drifting it was composed and comfortable.
The tech today was so good, it helped that I was borrowing the Ohlins coil off my bro's bike, but even with all the rocks and roots and stuff I never felt like my front was losing it, I had a couple times where my rear was skipping around, but it's not as sketchy when your front wheel is on rails.
IME tire pressure is the second most important determinant of puncture resistance, with casing construction at #1. Adding more air is the #1 way to avoid pinch flats on any given tire.
Bring me yours? 😂 happy to measure more I’ll be at N* until the snow shuts it down…
Just my own 2c but I’ve not punctured a tire in probably 20+years, knock on 🪵. But I don’t mess with less than DH type casings for the most part anymore. Spend a few years pedaling 40+lb bikes everywhere and you’ll feel like your riding an ebike every time you jump onto a trail bike with sub 1200g tires. But whatever 35psi in my minions…. 😆
I’m talking about punctures directly on the tread, not pinch flats. The test in the Enduro article was measuring punctures. Of course more air is more pinch resistant but my question is a different one. Is there really a huge difference between rolling over a razor sharp rock at 26psi or 30psi?
In theory, lower air pressure (or more supple and flexible casing) in a tire is less likely to be cut since it lets the tire conform and spread the load over a larger area of tire.
Yeah, if you're talking about center tread punctures, in that case lower pressure is better like notthatbryan said. Imagine poking an overinflated balloon with a pen and then poking an underinflated balloon. More pressure is going to stretch out the the balloon and hold the surface under tension, making cuts easier.
Sorry, I didn't open the Enduro Mag test, I assumed "puncture resistance" referred to pinch flats, as those are 90% of the flats I see in the wild.
So once again I’m back to being baffled that the radials with the same pressure as the traditional tires had far less puncture resistance, since they would have even more area to spread the load over. Maybe the testing method was flawed? I’m going mental over this because I’ve just swapped the front tire on my enduro bike from a Conti Kyrptotal F Enduro to the Magic Mary Trail Pro Radial. I’ve not had much time on the radial and only really in slow wet conditions but I do ride in fast dry rocky areas where anything called “trail” casing is asking for punctures.
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