Stack height is my number one concern/doubt/hesitation about the adoption of 32" wheels, because stack height on 29" wheels is already REALLY tall for XC and...
Stack height is my number one concern/doubt/hesitation about the adoption of 32" wheels, because stack height on 29" wheels is already REALLY tall for XC and marathon folks. When you look at the bike fits that pro road and gravel athletes are running, modern XC bikes have extremely tall front ends and upright body positions by comparison.
All of the crazy negative rise stems we see on pro XC bikes are really just bandaid solutions to hide the fact that 29ers forks and front wheels are tall AF for most of the elite XC field. Take a look at these riders bikes, most of them with extremely low rise stems, and if you just look at contact points you'll they have almost no "bar drop" from the saddle to the handlebars.
Puck Piererse' winning bike from Leogang last weekend. No bar drop:
Jolanda Neff's bike from a couple years back. No bar drop, arguably bars that are higher than the saddle:
Victor Koretzy's bike from last season. Maybe 40 cm of bar drop:
Here's Nino's bike from the Cape Epic, which is a more extreme version of his normal XC fit, because the Cape Epic is really a glorified gravel race. Despite looking insane, if you actually focus your eyes on the contact points, it's still not that much bar drop, maybe 50mm, which is pretty tame.
By comparison, here are some old pics of Chris Froome and his bike, who always had a pretty middle of the road bike fit, arguably pretty upright in comparison to other riders at the time. Still had 100-120mm of bar drop, according to my eyeballs, and that's just to the top of the bars. When he goes into the drops it's more like 200+:
Back to 32" wheels. 32" rims have a 686mm bead seat diameter, which is 64mm larger than a 29" wheel's 622mm BSD. That means slapping a 32" fork and wheel onto a 29" bike will raise the vertical stack height on that bike by 62mm!!! (see math here). That means that every single rider who I've listed above would have their bars above their saddle, including Nino and Koretzy. Yeah, duh short riders wouldn't work well on 32" wheels, but my point is that tall XC riders still have less bar drop than you would expect because they're working around a very tall front end.
Juroslav Kulhavy was 6'2"/187 cm, and even he would have basically zero bar drop if he installed a 32" fork and front wheel on his old Cape Epic bike:
The only XC/marathon riders I can think of who wouldn't have a compromised bike fit from a 32" front wheel would be the old Kona XC and CX slayer Ryan Trebon. Trebon's old CX bike for reference:
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and...
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and bike setup are all based on available tech and components.
Once we add a new tool to the arsenal the landscape shifts around it. Riding styles will change and bikes will be designed with different parameters and the whole sport will evolve.
The early 29ers weren’t great! But the concept was sound and eventually we figured out how to make great 29ers and riding styles adapted to the new strengths and weaknesses of the wheel size.
I would bet that seat tube angles steepen with proportional increase in reach. Shorter stems with a negative rise will maybe get us back to similar handling characteristics and a similar saddle to bar drop. What do you think?
I'm just spitballing here, but one of the limiting dimensions that does not help gain wheel size or suspension travel is headtube length. What if for...
I'm just spitballing here, but one of the limiting dimensions that does not help gain wheel size or suspension travel is headtube length. What if for 32" bikes, the head tube was split, in which case it only needs to house a bearing on each end, and the stem attached in between? Scott does so much integration hell already that I'd bet they'd be into this.
Unironically love this and could see it working great.
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and...
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and bike setup are all based on available tech and components.
Once we add a new tool to the arsenal the landscape shifts around it. Riding styles will change and bikes will be designed with different parameters and the whole sport will evolve.
The early 29ers weren’t great! But the concept was sound and eventually we figured out how to make great 29ers and riding styles adapted to the new strengths and weaknesses of the wheel size.
I would bet that seat tube angles steepen with proportional increase in reach. Shorter stems with a negative rise will maybe get us back to similar handling characteristics and a similar saddle to bar drop. What do you think?
I don't look forward to 5-7 years of riding shitty tires until Maxxis releases a MaxxGrip Assegai in 32" sizing haha. I still have PTSD from the early 29er days.
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and...
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and bike setup are all based on available tech and components.
Once we add a new tool to the arsenal the landscape shifts around it. Riding styles will change and bikes will be designed with different parameters and the whole sport will evolve.
The early 29ers weren’t great! But the concept was sound and eventually we figured out how to make great 29ers and riding styles adapted to the new strengths and weaknesses of the wheel size.
I would bet that seat tube angles steepen with proportional increase in reach. Shorter stems with a negative rise will maybe get us back to similar handling characteristics and a similar saddle to bar drop. What do you think?
I'm just spitballing here, but one of the limiting dimensions that does not help gain wheel size or suspension travel is headtube length. What if for...
I'm just spitballing here, but one of the limiting dimensions that does not help gain wheel size or suspension travel is headtube length. What if for 32" bikes, the head tube was split, in which case it only needs to house a bearing on each end, and the stem attached in between? Scott does so much integration hell already that I'd bet they'd be into this.
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and...
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and bike setup are all based on available tech and components.
Once we add a new tool to the arsenal the landscape shifts around it. Riding styles will change and bikes will be designed with different parameters and the whole sport will evolve.
The early 29ers weren’t great! But the concept was sound and eventually we figured out how to make great 29ers and riding styles adapted to the new strengths and weaknesses of the wheel size.
I would bet that seat tube angles steepen with proportional increase in reach. Shorter stems with a negative rise will maybe get us back to similar handling characteristics and a similar saddle to bar drop. What do you think?
I don't look forward to 5-7 years of riding shitty tires until Maxxis releases a MaxxGrip Assegai in 32" sizing haha. I still have PTSD from...
I don't look forward to 5-7 years of riding shitty tires until Maxxis releases a MaxxGrip Assegai in 32" sizing haha. I still have PTSD from the early 29er days.
Rocky just needs to step in and open the mold. Hahah 32's are going to be a big hit here on the Shore.
Moto Max is teasing a new bike on his insta. Can we rub our brain cells together to figure out what it could be?https://www.instagram.com/p/DK7ODT0Rr3n/?img_index=1&igsh=MW13MDRtZWpyNzIyaQ==
Moto Max is teasing a new bike on his insta.
Can we rub our brain cells together to figure out what it could be?
Stack height is my number one concern/doubt/hesitation about the adoption of 32" wheels, because stack height on 29" wheels is already REALLY tall for XC and...
Stack height is my number one concern/doubt/hesitation about the adoption of 32" wheels, because stack height on 29" wheels is already REALLY tall for XC and marathon folks. When you look at the bike fits that pro road and gravel athletes are running, modern XC bikes have extremely tall front ends and upright body positions by comparison.
All of the crazy negative rise stems we see on pro XC bikes are really just bandaid solutions to hide the fact that 29ers forks and front wheels are tall AF for most of the elite XC field. Take a look at these riders bikes, most of them with extremely low rise stems, and if you just look at contact points you'll they have almost no "bar drop" from the saddle to the handlebars.
Puck Piererse' winning bike from Leogang last weekend. No bar drop:
Jolanda Neff's bike from a couple years back. No bar drop, arguably bars that are higher than the saddle:
Victor Koretzy's bike from last season. Maybe 40 cm of bar drop:
Here's Nino's bike from the Cape Epic, which is a more extreme version of his normal XC fit, because the Cape Epic is really a glorified gravel race. Despite looking insane, if you actually focus your eyes on the contact points, it's still not that much bar drop, maybe 50mm, which is pretty tame.
By comparison, here are some old pics of Chris Froome and his bike, who always had a pretty middle of the road bike fit, arguably pretty upright in comparison to other riders at the time. Still had 100-120mm of bar drop, according to my eyeballs, and that's just to the top of the bars. When he goes into the drops it's more like 200+:
Back to 32" wheels. 32" rims have a 686mm bead seat diameter, which is 64mm larger than a 29" wheel's 622mm BSD. That means slapping a 32" fork and wheel onto a 29" bike will raise the vertical stack height on that bike by 62mm!!! (see math here). That means that every single rider who I've listed above would have their bars above their saddle, including Nino and Koretzy. Yeah, duh short riders wouldn't work well on 32" wheels, but my point is that tall XC riders still have less bar drop than you would expect because they're working around a very tall front end.
Juroslav Kulhavy was 6'2"/187 cm, and even he would have basically zero bar drop if he installed a 32" fork and front wheel on his old Cape Epic bike:
The only XC/marathon riders I can think of who wouldn't have a compromised bike fit from a 32" front wheel would be the old Kona XC and CX slayer Ryan Trebon. Trebon's old CX bike for reference:
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and...
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and bike setup are all based on available tech and components.
Once we add a new tool to the arsenal the landscape shifts around it. Riding styles will change and bikes will be designed with different parameters and the whole sport will evolve.
The early 29ers weren’t great! But the concept was sound and eventually we figured out how to make great 29ers and riding styles adapted to the new strengths and weaknesses of the wheel size.
I would bet that seat tube angles steepen with proportional increase in reach. Shorter stems with a negative rise will maybe get us back to similar handling characteristics and a similar saddle to bar drop. What do you think?
I'm just spitballing here, but one of the limiting dimensions that does not help gain wheel size or suspension travel is headtube length. What if for...
I'm just spitballing here, but one of the limiting dimensions that does not help gain wheel size or suspension travel is headtube length. What if for 32" bikes, the head tube was split, in which case it only needs to house a bearing on each end, and the stem attached in between? Scott does so much integration hell already that I'd bet they'd be into this.
Until they get the rotor arms orientation right they cannot be expecting to be taken seriously. And red paint? Seriously? What is this fast and furious vol.I? Oh, grimeca wants to have a word with you about that too lol. Gosh I'm so negative.
Until they get the rotor arms orientation right they cannot be expecting to be taken seriously. And red paint? Seriously? What is this fast and furious...
Until they get the rotor arms orientation right they cannot be expecting to be taken seriously. And red paint? Seriously? What is this fast and furious vol.I? Oh, grimeca wants to have a word with you about that too lol. Gosh I'm so negative.
Lighten up, Francis! These will look great on my Porsche ebike.
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and...
Really good post but I still think we are suffering from the same problem that we had 10-15 years ago: bike design, geo, riding style, and bike setup are all based on available tech and components.
Once we add a new tool to the arsenal the landscape shifts around it. Riding styles will change and bikes will be designed with different parameters and the whole sport will evolve.
The early 29ers weren’t great! But the concept was sound and eventually we figured out how to make great 29ers and riding styles adapted to the new strengths and weaknesses of the wheel size.
I would bet that seat tube angles steepen with proportional increase in reach. Shorter stems with a negative rise will maybe get us back to similar handling characteristics and a similar saddle to bar drop. What do you think?
I think 32” wheels sound amazing for the rough, washboard, rutted Colorado dirt roads. I don’t race and don’t care for sprinting. But some big ol wheels that roll and roll… I like it. Tall comfy front end sounds good too.
not 32" but prototype giant XC bike from VDS pits today
not 32" but prototype giant XC bike from VDS pits today
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new anthem would be the same. Can't see the rear dropout area, but the production bike has to be a flex stay doesn't it?
Can we call this general layout XC crab or something?
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new...
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new anthem would be the same. Can't see the rear dropout area, but the production bike has to be a flex stay doesn't it?
Can we call this general layout XC crab or something?
How about Lobster or Shrimp links? Both are somewhat related to crabs and that's kind of what you look like when you ride an XC bike (hunched back to a low bar/stem. Just imagine the negative stems that will be on 32" XC race bikes... carcinization continues as Nino Schurter goes from GOAT to Lobster)
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new...
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new anthem would be the same. Can't see the rear dropout area, but the production bike has to be a flex stay doesn't it?
Can we call this general layout XC crab or something?
It's the lightest layout... And it gives the option to carry 2 water bottles.
Until they get the rotor arms orientation right they cannot be expecting to be taken seriously. And red paint? Seriously? What is this fast and furious...
Until they get the rotor arms orientation right they cannot be expecting to be taken seriously. And red paint? Seriously? What is this fast and furious vol.I? Oh, grimeca wants to have a word with you about that too lol. Gosh I'm so negative.
I mean cmon, we have the mass dampers mounted to 3D printed flexy plastic number plates now?
As long as it works in the rider's head...
Sometimes, it's just to go with the flow, if the rider feels it makes a difference, even though physics and data might prove otherwise, the teams/mechanics will roll with it. I'm not surprised mental coaches are so important now at their level, if you have an edge "in your head", chances are it'll work on the track.
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new...
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new anthem would be the same. Can't see the rear dropout area, but the production bike has to be a flex stay doesn't it?
Can we call this general layout XC crab or something?
I mean cmon, we have the mass dampers mounted to 3D printed flexy plastic number plates now?
Thought: If they mount an empty can there they can shape the number plate to be a fairing while staying within the aerodynamic rules. The number plate has to be shaped that way to accommodate actual equipment?
More like I "hate" painted instead of anodized lol. Looks cheap and tacky, kind of like plastic brembo caliper covers you get for stock brakes on the car to make it look faster haha https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315502970018
Unironically love this and could see it working great.
I don't look forward to 5-7 years of riding shitty tires until Maxxis releases a MaxxGrip Assegai in 32" sizing haha. I still have PTSD from the early 29er days.
I was imagining a mondraker with this design. It already fits their Industrial Design!
Rocky just needs to step in and open the mold. Hahah 32's are going to be a big hit here on the Shore.
I believe it's a Haro
Izanagi Teru V2 prototype.
V3 coming soon...
post removed at request of brand. -sspomer
Why settle for just one bar position?
Brembo brakes official
Until they get the rotor arms orientation right they cannot be expecting to be taken seriously. And red paint? Seriously? What is this fast and furious vol.I? Oh, grimeca wants to have a word with you about that too lol. Gosh I'm so negative.
I can't convey it in any way other than vibes but these look extremely Scandinavian. Like Brio (the little wooden trains and tracks) and Lego!
Lighten up, Francis! These will look great on my Porsche ebike.
I think 32” wheels sound amazing for the rough, washboard, rutted Colorado dirt roads. I don’t race and don’t care for sprinting. But some big ol wheels that roll and roll… I like it. Tall comfy front end sounds good too.
Not everything needs to be race-ready
not 32" but prototype giant XC bike from VDS pits today
Interesting that they have gone with the horizontal shock like every other brand, the liv xc bike is flex stay and vertical shock, assumed the new anthem would be the same. Can't see the rear dropout area, but the production bike has to be a flex stay doesn't it?
Can we call this general layout XC crab or something?
damn, I knew it was bad out there, but giant (putting in some r&d) moving away from maestro is def a signal of the end of times.
Brilliant! Of course! It's so simple- handlebars everywhere!
pit bits from VDS
How about Lobster or Shrimp links? Both are somewhat related to crabs and that's kind of what you look like when you ride an XC bike (hunched back to a low bar/stem. Just imagine the negative stems that will be on 32" XC race bikes... carcinization continues as Nino Schurter goes from GOAT to Lobster)
Dak mode ✔️
Nino mode ✔️
It's the lightest layout... And it gives the option to carry 2 water bottles.
Looks like Jessie-May Morgan from PB has dinner plans – from her Liv Pique review the other day:
I too prefer to smash my ballz against all the things when flying OTB.
Dude really said "I hate when things are colors"
I mean cmon, we have the mass dampers mounted to 3D printed flexy plastic number plates now?
Probably an empty can to appease a rider that can’t tell the difference.
As long as it works in the rider's head...
Sometimes, it's just to go with the flow, if the rider feels it makes a difference, even though physics and data might prove otherwise, the teams/mechanics will roll with it. I'm not surprised mental coaches are so important now at their level, if you have an edge "in your head", chances are it'll work on the track.
I've seen it before, and I'll see it further on
2022+ XC bike starter pack
*Linkage driven single pivot w/ flex stay
*Top tube mounted shock
*Two bottle cage mounts
*Bring your own logo: Specialized/Cervelo/Pinarello/SantaCruz/Transition/Kona/Trek/Cannondale/Orbea/KTM etc
Blueprint:
Thought: If they mount an empty can there they can shape the number plate to be a fairing while staying within the aerodynamic rules. The number plate has to be shaped that way to accommodate actual equipment?
More like I "hate" painted instead of anodized lol. Looks cheap and tacky, kind of like plastic brembo caliper covers you get for stock brakes on the car to make it look faster haha https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315502970018